Ask LizzyM (Almost) Anything 2012 edition

[Midifelder10]

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Thanks for doing it over the break during your vacation. It is appreciated.

Why is GPA important as you know it more than most that some schools curve it at B, B-, C+ and C?

How important is upward trend, assume theoretically someone has subpar GPA in undergrad but post bacc is 3.9 does that reset first 4 years. how do you view it?

Thanks!

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM thanks for all you do on SDN. 😍

In what order do you generally look over each individual application (EG MCAT scores and GPA first, or personal statement first?). Also, if someone come from a 'unique' background like a single parent household, first-generation American, first to go to college, etc. do you typically figure this out by looking at the AMCAS family background info? Or is that something you will typically not really care about unless it's mentioned explicitly in a secondary essay? I ask because sometimes people attribute their application success to their background, but in my case I don't think it has helped me out at all. Maybe that's just because I'm white though.

Our software (and previously the labels on the paper files) shows the name, MCAT with breakdown, sGPA and cGPA, school name and major.

I usually start with the AMCAS, then go to the secondaries, and the LORs. The AMCAS does provide information on family if you've answered that section which is optional.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM

I would first like to thank you for all the time you have put in to helping students over the years.

I have two questions.

1. In regards to publications how important are the impact factors of the journals one is published in and how are posters/conference abstracts viewed?

They don't matter to me but might matter to some people.

2. In regards to graduate training how are research based MSc perceived? I have heard from some professors that one only enters a MSc if they can not cut it a PhD level. In contrast there are some systems where one does MSc first before being considered for a PhD (or transfers up from a MSc to a PhD). Which model is generally expressed by your AdCom or AdComs in general. Also how are grades and productivity during ones graduate work considered?

Thanks again for all your help and dedication and Happy Holidays

We very, very seldom discuss applicants who have or who are pursing a MSc so I don't have any insights.

 

[LizzyM]

Is a heavy schedule looked upon favorably? Doing more than full time, for example, 4 classes a quarter.

We tend to look by year rather than by quarter and a heavy load in an academic year looks better than a light one, if anyone bothers to look.

 

[omare61]

Hey LizziM,


How do you tolerate stuttering in an interview? What if the interviewer is a natural stutterer? Should the interviewer tell you that they are a stutterer?

How about nervousness? (i.e. shaking, stuttering, losing train of thought)

 

[mellamocow]

Is the order of applications being evaluated based on time of receipt? Or are there mechanisms in the software that sorts people by GPA, MCAT, etc or even put people of uniqueness (first gen, African American with high stats, etc) in separate pools/alert the adcom of their presence?

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM,

I'm very interested in the clinical aspect of medicine, but not terribly enthused by research. The only formal research experience I have is going to be the senior thesis (it's original research) I'll be working on for my liberal arts major my senior year, but I have extensive clinical and volunteer experience.

How bad does a lack of substantial research experience look on an application? Does research outside the sciences look worse than research in the sciences?

Some adcom members don't consider research outside of the natural sciences to be research. Others have a broader definition of "research".

Some schools that are highly ranked as research institutions will favor applicants with research experience however they define it.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Who would make the more intimidating medical school interviewer; M or Sue Sylvester?

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM,

I have a question about UG transcripts. If more than half of the grades on a transcript are marked A+ instead of just an A, does this matter or is it even visible? I am talking about straight A+s in all core classes in a major (e.g. orgo1/2, biochem, pchem, microbio, etc.). Also, would it matter at all if several classes were graduate courses taken for undergraduate credit?

Are you involved with MD/Phd applications?

The A+ shows up but is worth only 4.0 in your gpa. It is hard to see that classes are grad or undergrad and so it generally does not register that they are or are not. If you have a LOR from the instructor and it is mentioned in the letter that it was a grad class then it might be noted.

I rarely see MD/PhD applications. I have enough to do with the MD-only folks.

 

[MusicJunkie]

Hey LizzyM!

This is not really an admissions question, but I wanted to ask: If someone is to choose between two schools, what factors do you think are important for someone to consider?

Thank you! 🙂

 

[NontradCA]

Hi Lizzy,

Is being a war veteran looked upon as a negative to some adcoms?

Thanks

 

[TheShaker]

Who would make the more intimidating medical school interviewer; M or Sue Sylvester?

I don't know about you, but I would literally implode on myself if Sue Sylvester was my interviewer.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for doing this and happy holidays!

First, is it okay to get letters of recommendation from professors we had in our freshman and sophomore years?

Yes

I turned my academic performance around last spring and it showed in my orgo class. I know my professor would write a great letter, but should I set that experience aside for letters from professors that I will have in higher level courses?

no, not necessary

Second, my application is very weak in ECs. I did not join any clubs my first two years and still have not gained interest in any that are around. How do I make up for such a deficiency in the next 2-4 years? I will be a teaching assistant (grader), peer tutor, and research assistant next semester. I have no real means of shadowing because the closest hospital/clinic is >5 miles away (small LAC), I don't have a car, public transportation is almost nonexistant, and my schedule has me in class from 9-4/5 Monday through Thursday. I do want to do some volunteer work. Is it important for me to volunteer with the same 2-3 organizations or is patchwork volunteering still held in high regard?

Clubs are not necssary but it is better to be involved in activities that involve others than to be seen as a loner.

You need to have some experience that shows that you have tested your interest in medicine. You can do it during the school year or in the summer but do in domestically (not soley abroad).

Third, I plan on continuing next semester's research into senior year with a thesis. If I develop a love for research, what can I do after undergrad to become a better MD/PhD candidate? There are no professors at my college doing medical research, and many of the hopeful MD/PhD candidates that I've talked to have had >2-3 years of research experience (some going all the way back to HS). Would 1-2 years of clinical research and shadowing be the best way to spend my gap years here?

Thanks!

Look into work at NIH. They have a program for recent college grads. You might be best asking this on the MD/PhD board. I'm not much of an expert in that regard.

 

[LizzyM]

Are some types of teaching experience more valuable than others (they can show more)?

Among Supplemental Instruction Leaders, Teaching Assistants, Private Tutors, I would imagine SI Leaders show the best leadership and knowledge. SI leaders have to design their own sessions and be able to teach review sessions almost similar to a professor. Also, it is much more competitive to get such a position. Especially at larger universities, SI leaders are responsible for 100+ students in one session with no higher authority in the room. On the other hand, teaching assistants may simply help grade papers, administer exams (look out for cheaters, etc), and other tasks that do not require as much leadership and content knowledge.

What are your thoughts on this? Are any of the above viewed more favorably?

I haven't seen my fellow adcom members differentiate among these different roles.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM - I am currently in a Biochemistry Masters program (not a SMP). I was wondering if having a Masters would be beneficial for my application? Would it make me stand out any more than those students with a Bachelors?

Also, if my stats (GPA/MCAT/etc) are otherwise average or slightly above average, would a Masters make up for that (at least partially?)

Thank you!

To the extent that a MS confirms that you can do the academic work required of med students, it is good. However, given grade inflation, they don't help much in making up for a poor or average undergrad record.

Compared to a student who spent a comparable amount of time after college graduation folding sweaters at The Gap, you are ahead but it isn't going to be better than someone with a slightly higher undergrad gpa applying as a rising senior in college.

 

[LizzyM]

Current applicant for this cycle, but throwaway account

So far I have 3 interview invites with the first one in two weeks and 10 schools left to hear from. I just received all of my final grades for the fall and I didn't do as awesome as I wanted to/was hoping for. 20 credits which included 2 grad classes that I got A's in and 4 other undergrad technical electives for my major that I got B's and B+'s in. Basically I got overloaded during finals and didn't do as well as I could have in my undergrad classes. Came out with a 3.2 undergrad gpa with a 4.0 grad gpa (of 2 classes).

I wanted to write update letters to the rest of my schools that I applied to with hopes of my interviews. Do you advise that I even mention the outcome of fall grades or should I leave it out?

Ahh one other thing. I still haven't done my two English courses for med school requirements. Would it be rash of me to ask during the interview if it would be okay to replace one English course with another technical elective?

Thank you

If your grades in these six classes raise your total gpa, then report them. If not, I'd recommend not bringing them up as they can only hurt your chances.

If two English courses are required, why do you think that you'd be permitted to substitute a technical elective? Don't ask during interviews, the person you interview with might not be in a position to give you that decision. Send an email to ask.

 

[spf15]

My interviewer at a very research-heavy school asked me about my research (which I had listed briefly on my AMCAS since I got a poster out of it) from high school. It was from 6-7 years ago, so I stumbled a bit in explaining myself. Would this be a deal-breaker in your opinion? 🙁

thanks for doing this, by the way!

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for doing it over the break during your vacation. It is appreciated.

Why is GPA important as you know it more than most that some schools curve it at B, B-, C+ and C?

How important is upward trend, assume theoretically someone has subpar GPA in undergrad but post bacc is 3.9 does that reset first 4 years. how do you view it?

Thanks!

Regardless of the curve, gpa is a predictor of success in medical school and so it seems to be important to adcoms.

A post bac does not "reset" the first 4 years but can be treated more like a 5th year (so your gpa over 150 credits or whatever rather than 120).

If the post-bac is after a career in an unrelated field (a professional musician gives up the clarinet and does a post bac) then the gpa in undergrad doesn't mean much. (I mean, how do you judge someone whose grades in music theory and history of baroque music were sub-par?).

 

[NuttyEngDude]

Hi Lizzy!

Thank you for spending your Saturday Night doing this. 🙂

I am in a postbacc doing some grade repair (previous engineer). I've already taken at a 4yr university more than 70 hours pure science classes including all pre-reqs at a 3.9 (overall is 3.2~3.3ish, sGPA is 3.6ish). Would it look bad if I wanted to take some humanities classes at a community college to save some $$? Also is it ok to just take non-science classes from here on out, another 50 or so credits, to boost the overall GPA or would it look suspect, even if I, say, enjoy classes in history or something?

Usually people go the other way around (from CC to university) but I am asking the reverse.

thank you!

EDIT: or am i better served continuing taking science classes? my background is almost pure science and engineering at this point** it could make me look more well rounded, for example

 

[LizzyM]

Hey LizziM,


How do you tolerate stuttering in an interview? What if the interviewer is a natural stutterer? Should the interviewer tell you that they are a stutterer?

How about nervousness? (i.e. shaking, stuttering, losing train of thought)

Sometimes it has been mentioned in an essay or LOR and I will make a note to assess that when I interview an applicant. Even if it isn't mentioned anywhere, I do assess fluidity of speech, vocabulary, and overall ability to communicate successfully.

Just yesterday I heard Secretary of Education Arne Duncan on TV. He appears to have a bit of a speech impediment himself. Obviously it has not held him back. I have taught or served on committees with MDs with stutters and so I know that some are successful despite this difficulty.

Nerves -- it is a challenge to know what to do with applicants who are falling apart due to nerves. The worry is that this might be a regular thing and that they won't do well during their first "history and physical", presenting on rounds, in surgery and so forth. Much of what we do as interviewers is to try to get an applicant to relax enough that they get over the nerves and let their real self shine thorugh. If the applicant doesn't respond, then we become concerned about their suitability for our school.

 

[LizzyM]

Is the order of applications being evaluated based on time of receipt? Or are there mechanisms in the software that sorts people by GPA, MCAT, etc or even put people of uniqueness (first gen, African American with high stats, etc) in separate pools/alert the adcom of their presence?

We start reading in July or August so we certainly look at early applications sooner than we look at those that are submitted in September and October (or later).

It is also possible to write software to dump some applications in a "read later" bucket and to dump others in a "read asap" bucket. It is possible to write code to sort in all sorts of way or to make "tags" to alert adcoms to specific characteristics that are noted on the applications (state of residence, URM, etc). What sort of code a school writes or has written is going to vary by school and I don't get involved in what goes on behind the curtain at my own school.

 

[LizzyM]

Hey LizzyM!

This is not really an admissions question, but I wanted to ask: If someone is to choose between two schools, what factors do you think are important for someone to consider?

Thank you! 🙂

They should consider the factors that are important to them.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy,

Is being a war veteran looked upon as a negative to some adcoms?

Thanks

Not based on my experience. YMMV. Last cycle I observed that veteran status, particularly with service in a war zone, seemed to be worth 5 LizzyM points on an applicaiton.

 

[phunky]

Thank you so much for doing this, especially around the holidays.

How do adcoms look at Undergraduate courses taken in High School? I took 72 units of college credit at a national research university in my junior and senior year of high school, and my GPA for these classes was lower than my "true" undergraduate GPA (B/B+ average vs A-/A average). I'm worried that these classes that I took when I was 16 could harm my chances of getting into medical school (they bring my GPA down about 0.2 points).

 

[LizzyM]

My interviewer at a very research-heavy school asked me about my research (which I had listed briefly on my AMCAS since I got a poster out of it) from high school. It was from 6-7 years ago, so I stumbled a bit in explaining myself. Would this be a deal-breaker in your opinion? 🙁

thanks for doing this, by the way!

Well, it isn't going to be a big plus but it might not be a deal-breaker if everything else is good.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy!

Thank you for spending your Saturday Night doing this. 🙂

I am in a postbacc doing some grade repair (previous engineer). I've already taken at a 4yr university more than 70 hours pure science classes including all pre-reqs at a 3.9 (overall is 3.2~3.3ish, sGPA is 3.6ish). Would it look bad if I wanted to take some humanities classes at a community college to save some $$? Also is it ok to just take non-science classes from here on out, another 50 or so credits, to boost the overall GPA or would it look suspect, even if I, say, enjoy classes in history or something?

Usually people go the other way around (from CC to university) but I am asking the reverse.

Humanities classes at a community college? 😕 I can't imagine that these would be considered a plus... to the extent that they help improve your overall gpa (which is difficult after so many credits) they are discounted because CC is considered less rigorous than more prestigious schools.

thank you!

EDIT: or am i better served continuing taking science classes? my background is almost pure science and engineering at this point** it could make me look more well rounded, for example

If you are an engineer re-tooling to become a physician, you just need to show that you can handle the academics of med school. In my opinion, your performance in the pre-reqs puts my mind to ease in that regard and if you do well on the MCAT, that would seal the deal.

 

[LizzyM]

Thank you so much for doing this, especially around the holidays.

How do adcoms look at Undergraduate courses taken in High School? I took 72 units of college credit at a national research university in my junior and senior year of high school, and my GPA for these classes was lower than my "true" undergraduate GPA (B/B+ average vs A-/A average). I'm worried that these classes that I took when I was 16 could harm my chances of getting into medical school (they bring my GPA down about 0.2 points).

A 0.2 could be OK or not. Are we talking about a 3.9 going down to a 3.7 or a 3.5 going down to a 3.3? Most of the time we take a look at the entire application and note if classes taken in HS were lower. It's that old "upward trend" that we talk about liking to see.

 

[LizzyM]

Caught up! See you tomorrow!

 

[487806]

I apologize if this has been asked before (or seem redundant), but other than shadowing and hospital volunteering, what are other instances of clinical experience? Do hospices and free clinics count? Sorry for asking a naive question... (first question tomorrow 😳)

 

[Jas1360]

Not based on my experience. YMMV. Last cycle I observed that veteran status, particularly with service in a war zone, seemed to be worth 5 LizzyM points on an applicaiton.

I had one interviewer who I wish had felt this way. I was given a distinct impression that it was a negative. All other interviewers I had, either did not mention military service or seemed to think it was good.

 

[SmurfTurf]

As a gay applicant, who will be out on my application (due to most of my volunteer work being with gay rights organizations), I really want to go to a school in a state that my marriage to my husband will be considered "legal." So places like NY, Washington, Iowa, etc. (I'm not applying for another 2 years, so who knows what the hell will happen between now and then.) If I get a interview at schools in a state that recognizes same-sex marriage, that will automatically be at the top of my list for schools. Is it appropriate to mention this in the interview when they ask "Why this school" question. Obviously you would still research the mission statement and why the school is a good fit academically for you, but is it also appropriate to say something along the lines of "and living in this state would afford my husband and I equal rights."

Obviously I'm aware being out is risky on an application, and you never know how the adcom is going to react to that, but if it truly is something that's drawing you to that school... and if that reason places it at the rank of "If I get an acceptance here, I will not turn it down," could that be a good thing? Or is it better to just lay low? I always here showing extreme interest in a school helps out, and that would be a very sincere way to say "I will come here if you let me."

 

[Si Se Puede]

During the entire application process, are applicants ranked based on their profiles and having a score greater than a certain score, somewhat similar to the LizzyM score, gets an acceptance, scholarship, etc?

Also, how crucial is the interview? Do factors such as the following impact the interview scores? Height, pretty or not, overall build, hygiene, ability to dress well, etc. I have noticed the vast majority of doctors are tall!

Lastly, does the adcom factor in race as an intrinsic bias? For example, Asians seem to REQUIRE the highest stats to get in, then whites, etc.

 

[pmarank]

Hey Lizzy, thanks for doing this!

I am currently a junior considering taking a gap year after undergrad. How would med schools view me spending the summer after my junior year not doing much outside of volunteering a few hours a week at a hospital? I would like to be able to spend this time studying for the MCAT so I don't want to be involved in too many different things this summer. Would my MCAT score be looked down upon compared to those who were able to study for the MCAT during school?

How do med schools view gap year students vs rising seniors as applicants? Is one better than the other?

Also is there anything in particular med schools like to see during a gap year? Would it be acceptable if I just found a low paying job just to get by during the year? I also plan to continue volunteering/helping the community during my gap year.

 

[smarts1]

Adcoms want to see applicants who are academically strong, curious, altruistic, energetic, good team players and willing to take-on leadership responsibilities (and by that I don't mean just school clubs), and who have tested their interest in medicine through shadowing , and/or volunteering and/or employment. Take as long as you need to demonstrate those characteristics and don't apply prematurely.

So what exactly is meant by leadership? How do applicants show that? Do you have any examples from previous apps you've read?

 

[LauraJo08]

I realized that you might be biased as a private school adcom, but I'm grappling between choosing a top 20 school and my state school. At what point is prestige/research opportunities/connections overshadowed by higher cost?

 

[MaenadsDance]

If you could change anything about how pre-medical undergraduates are prepared for medical school (or about undergraduate education in general) what would you change? What would you change about medical education?

 

[sean80439]

How does age play into an application as well? Is there a cutoff where you would rather not admit someone? Does military service fulfill part of an application that may be lacking, for example leadership/volunteering/etc?

edit: removed part that I saw was asked above and missed.

 

[chem4ever]

Does it make any difference to Adcoms whether an applicant is graduated (w/ a Bachelors) by the time they apply vs. an applicant that won't graduate until the year after (someone that applies after junior year).

In other words, is there any advantage to me pushing myself to graduate this year (I can do it but it will make my semester hard) if I plan on applying at the end of this year?

Thanks a million!

 

[RCPreMD]

I just read 11 pages yesterday from last years thread and ironically here you are again!! thank you so much for your contribution to all of us.

I know you say avoid the sick grandma story, but would growing up having to physically care for a handicapped parent be something to focus on, it has defenitely shaped the person ive become as well as explains the reason I will be applying in my late 20s early 30s.

Thanks for any help again.

 

[sunflower18]

I have one other question 😳 Thank you so much!!

My university doesn't allow students to take more than the equivalent of 18 credit hours a semester without submitting a petition and paying extra tuition. The average courseload is 16 credits -- so 4 classes worth 4 credits each. However, to be full-time, you only need 12 credits. I've been comparing my schedule to other SDN members, and 16 credits seems awfully light. Will this be counted against me? Will AdComs somehow know that this is the case at my university? Or, if I do well in my classes and get all my pre-reqs and a major done by the time I graduate, will they not care at all?

Thank you! 🙂

 

[AestheticGod]

WOOOO! So in on this.

 

[audigq]

what would you think of a person who put down video games as a hobby because the person considers it art just like music or movies and is a genuine hobby of the person

 

[Bookish]

Thank you for doing this LizzyM!

I have a few questions. I am a freshman at a small liberal arts college. Until recently, I hadn't even considered a career in research/academic medicine, but now it is interesting me more and more. The only problem is that I have never had any formal research experience. My college does not have any labs that I can work in, and though I will be applying to some SURF programs I know it will be hard for me to get in. How will adcoms see me if I say that I am interested in doing research in medical school/my career if I don't get the opportunity to actually do any?

Also, have you seen a bias against overweight applicants? I know that I have some weight to lose, and though I am by no means obese or unhealthy, I'm worried my extra weight might make an interviewer think I'm lazy or unfit for the job.

One last question: how do adcoms know how rigorous your classes actually are, and how to compare your school to other schools? I feel like NOBODY knows my school. My freshman class size is like 600, we send maybe 4 people to medical school every year (rarely OOS). Literally people who go to my school don't even know we have a science department. How could an adcom at say, Vanderbilt have any idea what my school is like if no one from my school has ever applied there?

 

[AestheticGod]

-Will getting a D in a lab almost rule you out of med school? Is it possible to make up for it if your overall GPA is still above 3.5?
-Is achieving non-science related goals worth mention on your application? Like winning bodybuilding competitions, pro gaming (made actual money), athletics, ect.

 

[5HT3]

How common is it for an applicant to have C's on their transcript? Given that the GPA is still satisfactory.

 

[Hemorrage]

Hi LizzyM,

Do adcoms look at trends seriously on a transcript? I had a fairly low end 3.0 GPA freshman year, however, since then i've been getting 3.6-3.9 every semester and i wanted to know whether or not they would take this into account. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Hillo]

The truth is that I desire not to list my aunt as my parent even though she was the one working, not my grandmother.
It has been absolutely ridiculous every time my aunt has told someone that she raised me.
Life at "home" had been chaotic and stressful ever since I was 2 and until I finally left at 17.

Must I provide my aunt's information in order to accurately show the household income?

Also, I have an older brother who I never grew up with - should I provide his information?

Thanks.

 

[gettheleadout]

Do you want me to fix the typo in the thread title?

That's not my question, I just wanted to ask haha.

 

[lobo.solo]

What if I talked about my political activism stuff in my personal statement? I have an experience with someone being ill due to environmental injustice?

 

[FictiousForce]

How big of a difference is there in the eyes of an adcom between a 3.85 and a 3.95 for schools whose average GPA is rather high (and likely receive many 4.0s)?

How do adcoms feel about students whose parent is a physician? Under what category is any work at a family member's medical practice sorted under?

What's considered a decent semester workload for a premedical student?