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Yep, no more writing section, ever, starting 2013.
Ask LizzyM (Almost) Anything 2012 edition
Started by LizzyM
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Yep, no more writing section, ever, starting 2013.
yeah, i guess its hypothetical, i was just wondering if school s see it as a big fish small pond sort of thing, or they want big name schools to have the big name school. i guess it doesnt matter, since im probably not going to transfer.
with tutoring college students, here's another secondary question: the tutoring im talking about isn't though my institution: rather, its by word of mouth, in my dorms. would this count as an "activity"? i really was about to go though my college because someone suggested it and it would be more official
thanks agian!
If you get paid, it is listed as a job and if you do it for free you can list it as volunteer non clinical.
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most of my peers (who got above 36 and into top tier schools) dedicated their entire summers (three months) studying for the MCAT for 6-8 hours a day. i am sure some exceptional individuals can get a high score with only 1-2 hours a day for three months, but a full time studying engagement over three months is much more common. just check SN2ed's MCAT schedule.
for most people, 1-2 hrs a day for three months will not be remotely enough to get a score deemed high enough by a school in the league of LizzyM's institution.
I have to say I agree with this. Some med schools give 8 weeks or more to dedicated study for Step 1, why can't we take a few months for dedicated study for the MCAT? If we're going to compare perceived "effort" based on schedules and qualify MCAT scores based on that, I think that's crazy. Someone take three months to study and gets in the 40's. Did someone who studied while in school and working and got a 33 do better? That's a comparison that just can't be made, at least not IMO, I don't buy it. If its an issue of productivity, why isn't dedicated study productive? Seems productive to me.
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About the tutoring. You could list it as an experience labeled tutoring. then in the explanation, say that you have been an informal tutor to fellow students in the dorm and that you enjoy helping others and that you find that you learn so much about x y and z as well.
are you implying that medical schools somehow look down on people dedicating 2-4 months solely to the MCAT? to me, it seems absurd that med schools would do that, but then again, i guess anything can and will happen in this process.
Common summer experiences:
Job in a clinical setting, in a resort setting (food service, caddy, etc), in a camp setting, nanny
Research particularly paid fellowships
Travel (including back country camping)
Coursework on your campus or another campus
unpaid community service (sometimes with a small stipend)
You can choose to do one of the above per year, not everything on the list in a single summer.
😕 How would I know? Jan 1 is a holiday. I think that most people go back to work the next day but some people might take some extra time off. Some schools resume classes Jan 2, others might be a bit later.
Hey LizzyM, firstly, thank you so much for doing this, its incredibly helpful.
I'm an American Indian and although I am a "card-carrying" Indian (documented tribal membership) I do not look it at all and I do not meet the 25% blood quantum necessary for many benefits in this country (I am a US citizen with dual citizenship based on tribal membership). However, my tribe is from Canada where I do enjoy the benefits my status offers and I have been active in the community, at least in a broad sense at the local American Indian center. How prevalent is people checking off American Indian who are 1% Cherokee with no true tribal affiliation, and how do Adcoms establish whether or not you are granted URM status? I'm basically worried that I'll walk into the interview and they'll be expecting Sitting Bull, when I look more like Gen. Custar, and I will not be seen as a "legit" Indian and I'll be caught in the awkward conversation I tend to be in whenever its brought up that I am an American Indian, basically because the general public views Indian status as blood percentage, while the communities themselves are more interested in involvement and affiliation.
Any thoughts on this?
I'm an American Indian and although I am a "card-carrying" Indian (documented tribal membership) I do not look it at all and I do not meet the 25% blood quantum necessary for many benefits in this country (I am a US citizen with dual citizenship based on tribal membership). However, my tribe is from Canada where I do enjoy the benefits my status offers and I have been active in the community, at least in a broad sense at the local American Indian center. How prevalent is people checking off American Indian who are 1% Cherokee with no true tribal affiliation, and how do Adcoms establish whether or not you are granted URM status? I'm basically worried that I'll walk into the interview and they'll be expecting Sitting Bull, when I look more like Gen. Custar, and I will not be seen as a "legit" Indian and I'll be caught in the awkward conversation I tend to be in whenever its brought up that I am an American Indian, basically because the general public views Indian status as blood percentage, while the communities themselves are more interested in involvement and affiliation.
Any thoughts on this?
I've never seen anyone care about a minor. Someone I know (now retired) cared a lot about classes taken outside of the requirements for the major and the pre-reqs but she was someone with a lot of time on her hands and strong opinions about what is well rounded.
That is exactly what I'm implying, because that seems to be what LizzyM is implying, and I believe she's said something to that effect before (e.g. that scores would be considered differently between two applicants that studied during school/work vs dedicated time). And I agree, I think it's absurd.
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oh wow. i really hope that that's only her school specifically and is not a general trend.
Well, I tend to see (at interview) the guy who studied while in school who got the 40. Some people tell me that they took one fewer class during jr spring term and used those extra 12 hr/wk (time that would have been spent in class and studying for the class) preparing for the MCAT at a rate of 2 hr/day.
Do what you think you need to do. Keep in mind that my experiences with applicants are at the tip top of the pyramid and that most applicants should take my advice it with a grain of salt.
There are people who don't seem to have much (much?? I should say ANY) connection to the tribe they claim to have in their heritage. I tend to treat those applicants as non-URM and if they seem good enough to interview, I recommend them for interview despite the fact that they don't bring an under-represented viewpoint to the classroom and are unlikely to serve in the community they claim to spring from. That's fine.
If someone does bring an under-represented viewpoint to the classroom, then we value that applicant a little more highly because we learn from one another in the classroom and on the wards and a diversity of experiences contributes to everyone's acquisition of cultural competence. So, you should include your activities at the local American Indian Center on your application and list your ethnicity as you prefer to identify yourself.
Don't let others sterotypes of what an American Indian should look like hold you back.
Not at my school. YMMV. Check the school specific thread to see if there is any specific advice for your school.
I think the point is, given similar scores, the person who took the MCAT during the regular school year (typically with more committments than summer) would come off as slightly more impressive. However, I do see that the super high scorers don't need as much studying as the general population and the timeframe when they take the test makes little difference. It also helps that those kinds of people have a totally different mentality when taking these tests than the rest of the applicants.
The Dean at a medical school replied to my office -- I work at a university - and told us that her faculty always look at whether you studied the MCAT "solus" - that's the word she used - or also took challenging classes along with your studying for the MCAT. She said she is impressed when students take a full load and do well on the MCAT and not so impressed when people spends months doing nothing but studying for the MCAT. She was surprisingly forthcoming about her views. I wish I could get the e-mail addresses of all medical school deans, so I could send them a questionnaire about their views on our university letterhead!!! I don't think I will be misusing university resources if I merely used university letterheads. I will be happy to share the results with the SDN community. Most of my colleagues use university stationary to do their homework or shopping lists or stuff like that. I will be using it to send out surveys. Sending something on an official letterhead will make the survey seem legit. I hope there's nothing wrong with it though - I'll get clearance from my director of course but I doubt if she will have a problem.
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That is ABSOLUTELY misusing university resources.
Not if my director approves of it.
That just means that you both could use an ethics class.
I am sorry you feel that way. The information, straight from the mouths of Deans, will be helpful to students at my college, almost all of them URM's and very poor ones at that. The three who aren't URM's are gay. I work for the URM/Diversity office. But I can see where you are coming from. And like I wrote, I will be happy to share the results with SDN.
You'll surely do what you will and most here will be excited for any inside information they can get (however it was obtained).
It would be hard to argue that you're not doing it for your own benefit. I mean, can other students use the letterhead as freely to request information in programs that they are interested in pursuing?
Also, if these deans are giving you information that you wouldn't be entitled to if your request wasn't on university letterhead, how can you argue that you aren't at the least deceiving the deans which I would argue is an ethical violation itself.
It would be hard to argue that you're not doing it for your own benefit. I mean, can other students use the letterhead as freely to request information in programs that they are interested in pursuing?
Also, if these deans are giving you information that you wouldn't be entitled to if your request wasn't on university letterhead, how can you argue that you aren't at the least deceiving the deans which I would argue is an ethical violation itself.
I am the Associate Director and the information I collect will help me of course. But it will also help all other students at my mostly URM center. If I send the survey on my own, yes, you are correct, no one will reply. Why will they respond to someone off the street? But if I send the survey as an Associate Director, they will gladly help. They are always happy to come on down here and give us a presentation and talk about their school. Of course, we're talking in hypotheticals because I first need the email addresses of Deans of medical schools or the deans of admission and I don't see any easy way of getting that information.
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i just graduated, but i am spending 30-40 hrs a week on an artistic endeavor alongside MCAT studying, will that be regarded as "solus"? i dont think anyone would spend 3-5 months doing nothing but MCAT. i pretty much have a full-time commitment every week in addition to MCAT studying - totaling around 70-80 hrs of work a week.
and would a 30 MCAT (taken while a full time student) be more impressive than a 35 (taken solus?)
Question to LizzyM:
I can't decide what side of my background is more important to show in my personal statement and application. In short, I plan to apply this summer, physics major with 3.84GPA, plan to take MCAT this summer ( and apply at the same summer). I have worked in 3 biomedical reserch lab ( including more than 6 months at Mayo Clinic) in total around 2 year ( also taking into consideration that i worked for 2 labs at the same time for 6 months), poster presentation at huge conference, undergard thesis. I plan to apply to MD/PhD and MD programs. However, problem is that my major is physics but ALL my experience is in biomed ( neuroscience) reserahc labs. In real life, I wish I could find MD/PhD program with biophysics PhD portion ( there are some). however, I do not have any experience in physics ( only theoretical knowledge) so I might be not attractive for such programs. However, from other side I do not want to lose my physics major and comletely specialize in biomed sciencies. I know I will have problems to explan why being physics major I have interests in biomed reserch.
I can't decide what side of my background is more important to show in my personal statement and application. In short, I plan to apply this summer, physics major with 3.84GPA, plan to take MCAT this summer ( and apply at the same summer). I have worked in 3 biomedical reserch lab ( including more than 6 months at Mayo Clinic) in total around 2 year ( also taking into consideration that i worked for 2 labs at the same time for 6 months), poster presentation at huge conference, undergard thesis. I plan to apply to MD/PhD and MD programs. However, problem is that my major is physics but ALL my experience is in biomed ( neuroscience) reserahc labs. In real life, I wish I could find MD/PhD program with biophysics PhD portion ( there are some). however, I do not have any experience in physics ( only theoretical knowledge) so I might be not attractive for such programs. However, from other side I do not want to lose my physics major and comletely specialize in biomed sciencies. I know I will have problems to explan why being physics major I have interests in biomed reserch.
Well, you do have a problem. Why do you want to be a physician? That's the first question to answer and is important to answer well for your MD-only applications. It is tricky to write that for the AMCAS application if you are applying to both MD-only and MD/PhD programs in the same cycle.
As for the PhD: what do you propose for your dissertation research? It would seem, at this point, that your skills and experience are in bioscience and you would likely be attractive to a lab that could capitalize on those skills. On the other hand, you think that you would like to be in a lab that is invovled with physics in some way but you have no experience in physics research.
It seems to me that you are premature in applying to MD/PhD programs without physics research experience if it is physics research that you want to do. An NIH fellowship or a research gig at a major research center might be a good bridge...
If you would be happy doing MD-only with some research (maybe 1 day/wk for the rest of your life rather than 4 -days research/1-day clinical that is hoped MD/PhD grads will do-- but often don't) then apply next summer. If not, think about applying for some lab experiences and working a year then applying during your second gap year.
There is some interesting things going on in diagnostic imaging and in the use of optics in the identification of cancer cells. http://www.osa-opn.org/home/article...012/features/polarimetric_imaging_for_cancer/
If you want to go in that direction, I hope you can find a lab.
Question for LizzyM -
Once again, thank you very much for this incredibly valuable service you are offering us.
One student at our Center who is interested in serving underserved populations will not be able to apply for student loans. I don't think I can give out more information without compromising his identity, except saying he cannot dare to apply for student loans and the military is also not an option for him. He will be able to study medicine
- only if he gets a free ride
- or if he gets to work part-time earning an income while in medical school
- or if the total cost of tuition for all the years of medical school is less than $30,000 - the max his family can afford.
What is the best strategy for this student and where should he apply? If you must know the reason why he cannot apply for student loans, I could tell that to you privately.
Once again, thank you very much for this incredibly valuable service you are offering us.
One student at our Center who is interested in serving underserved populations will not be able to apply for student loans. I don't think I can give out more information without compromising his identity, except saying he cannot dare to apply for student loans and the military is also not an option for him. He will be able to study medicine
- only if he gets a free ride
- or if he gets to work part-time earning an income while in medical school
- or if the total cost of tuition for all the years of medical school is less than $30,000 - the max his family can afford.
What is the best strategy for this student and where should he apply? If you must know the reason why he cannot apply for student loans, I could tell that to you privately.
Some schools will give free rides to academically strong applicants who have unusual life experience, (which includes life experience in a URM community). That free ride might, or might not, include living expenses.
Working part-time while in medical school is very difficult. I knew a guy who worked one or two afternoons per week in a physician's office but that's barely $100/week these days.
I think it would be very unusal to find tuition at $7,500/yr.
I have known a couple of professional athletes who paid for med school from their earnings... does this guy have any talent in that regard? 😳
Without personal or family wealth, the williness and ability to join the military, or the ability to borrow money, one has a very hard time affording medical education in the US. Anyone have ideas for noncon?
How about Mayo? Does he have good stats? There is also a service scholarship that is not military but requires a service contract, but that depends on why he cannot do the military scholarship.
No, unfortunately he is not a professional athlete. He is the academic kind of URM who gets 4.0's and who has aced the SAT - quite the opposite of the professional athlete actually! Someone suggested to him that he take a popular class offered here on Investments, invest the $30,000 which represents his family wealth and make money on Wall Street! But he says that would be a good way to lose all the $30K. Yeah and I hope others have some ideas.
she also did this last year
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=877440
if anyone cares for more answers.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=877440
if anyone cares for more answers.
If he would like to work with the underserved populations through primary care, there's the National Health Service Corps: http://nhsc.hrsa.gov/scholarships/ Of course, then his location of living afterward might not be in his hands so that could be scary for some people.
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Do you have a link or any information on this service scholarship?
Thanks for this information. I think he will be delighted to serve any underserved population, wherever they may send him.
Sounds like he has the stats to get some scholarship offers. Here is one option I was referring to http://nhsc.hrsa.gov/scholarships/
Thank you for this link!
Is he interested in MD/PhD because he could try to get into the MSTP which offers tuition and stipends for at least part if not all of the medical education.
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No, he wants an MD or a DO and work with underserved populations. Not an MD/PhD. For some weird reason, he seems to think DO's are better suited to primary care. idk why. So he is very interested in the DO although his stats could get him in an MD program.
Hi,
I'm still in a jiffy due to my stiff schedule. Thanks.
I plan to take the traditional, non-gap year route. But I meant assuming all other things being equal, and that Orgo 2 on the MCAT is not a concern for me, would ADCOMs really care that my Orgo 2 is delayed? I plan on taking Anat/Phys instead my junior year because the MCAT barely has any Orgo 2 questions anyways.
P.S. What really is the difference between a 10 12 14 vs a 12 12 12 MCAT score?
I'm still in a jiffy due to my stiff schedule. Thanks.
------------------
I plan to take the traditional, non-gap year route. But I meant assuming all other things being equal, and that Orgo 2 on the MCAT is not a concern for me, would ADCOMs really care that my Orgo 2 is delayed? I plan on taking Anat/Phys instead my junior year because the MCAT barely has any Orgo 2 questions anyways.
P.S. What really is the difference between a 10 12 14 vs a 12 12 12 MCAT score?
Hi,
I'm still in a jiffy due to my stiff schedule. Thanks.
I plan to take the traditional, non-gap year route. But I meant assuming all other things being equal, and that Orgo 2 on the MCAT is not a concern for me, would ADCOMs really care that my Orgo 2 is delayed? I plan on taking Anat/Phys instead my junior year because the MCAT barely has any Orgo 2 questions anyways.
P.S. What really is the difference between a 10 12 14 vs a 12 12 12 MCAT score?
I'm still in a jiffy due to my stiff schedule. Thanks.
------------------
I plan to take the traditional, non-gap year route. But I meant assuming all other things being equal, and that Orgo 2 on the MCAT is not a concern for me, would ADCOMs really care that my Orgo 2 is delayed? I plan on taking Anat/Phys instead my junior year because the MCAT barely has any Orgo 2 questions anyways.
P.S. What really is the difference between a 10 12 14 vs a 12 12 12 MCAT score?
1) Would an intro to research class count as research experience? We first learn some basic techniques, and then begin working on our own research projects, but we have exams, etc. We also have the opportunity to publish our work (of course if we find results).
2) Would teaching your own seminar type course count as leadership, and would mentoring and tutoring an "at risk" high school student count as leadership?
3) Finally, is volunteering abroad for around two or three weeks worth anything in the eyes of the adcoms? I am asking this out of pure curiousity; it is not like my decision to do this will depend on whether or not adcoms like this or not, but I am curious.
2) Would teaching your own seminar type course count as leadership, and would mentoring and tutoring an "at risk" high school student count as leadership?
3) Finally, is volunteering abroad for around two or three weeks worth anything in the eyes of the adcoms? I am asking this out of pure curiousity; it is not like my decision to do this will depend on whether or not adcoms like this or not, but I am curious.
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