Ask LizzyM (Almost) Anything 2012 edition

[aspiring20]

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I'm tempted to say tl;dr

The MCAT is not standardized. Every student does not answer the same set of questions. There is some luck of the draw involved in terms of the reading passages assigned, and even the questions in the other sections.

Not everyone is a terrific test taker and some adcom members will put less stock in the MCAT than in gpa which measures performance over a longer period of time.

There is the perception that the top schools are very expensive but the fact is that the top schools give a fortune in scholarship money; some students from lower income families pay nothing or almost nothing to attend. We do see applicants who attended lower tier schools on a 100% scholarship and we do acknowledge that some people go to a less prestigious school due to a financial aid offer that they couldn't refuse.

A 3.6 at a high ranked school might include very challenging courses such as "Physiological Systems Analysis" while a lower ranked school might be offering courses such as "medical terminology". The pre-reqs are the same but everything else might be very, very different. Combining the gpa, rigor of the coursework and MCAT score, will put the student with the more rigorous courses/institution ahead of a student from a weaker school and/or a less rigorous curriculum.

what do you view as the more important? MCAT or cGPA? i know they are the top two factors at just about every school, but what do you, personally, view as the more important one?

 

[LizzyM]

I guess I was referring to gap year experiences. There's been alot of conflicting ideas of what a person should do. Some people have brought up extracurriculars that they're really devoted to but have no clinical relevance. These people have been told that if they can't tie it to the admissions process then it's not worth it while others have said to go for it if it leads to personal growth. I was wondering on who would be looked upon more favorably:

A person who went on some super hike across the U.S. and volunteered minimally on the side vs a person that just went crazy with hospital volunteering hours and other cliche clinical experiences.

During a gap year?? Neither seems very good. We'd like to see some employment in a research lab or other research setting, employment in a health-related industry (such as electronic medical record development -- is everyone working for Epic this year??) or consulting, or in a clinical setting, or working in a tutoring facility or as a teacher or substitute teacher, or being involved in a social service agency (maybe as part of something like City Year).

Assistant manager of a pizza restaurant, not so much... but it pays the bills.

Unemployment isn't that high for smart, young college grads so seeing someone who hasn't found something seems a little suspect.

 

[Plue00]

Is SAT not also a measure of performance on a single day? Did you just give me an example of the importance of a standardized exam? Do they not both serve the same purpose in evaluating students?

If both students with A's in your scenario got the same MCAT score, how could one be favored over the other because of his school's reputation? If the student who got the A at the school with the higher reputation "worked harder for it" (due to higher difficulty, higher reputation, better classmates, whatever), he would've scored higher than the other student from XYZ State on the same exam. Yet they both scored the same on the same exam. If UG with higher reputation truly is better or more rigorous than random UG, then considering 3.8 Harvard vs 3.8 XYZ state, the Harvard student should be expected to have a higher MCAT than the XYZ State student, because the 3.8 at Harvard was harder to get. If the 3.8 at Harvard was more difficult, a higher test score should be expected. If both students got the same score on the same test, then without extensive investigation you cannot possibly conclude that UGx was more rigorous or served a better education than UGy, regardless of reputation or prestige.

Yes, overall Yale is a better school than Montana State. It is more prestigious and has a higher reputation. But when it comes down to comparing single students from both institutions, each having exactly the same stats, the only difference is the Yale student is probably in a lot of debt, while the Montana State student probably isn't. They both received the same education with the same level of rigor, because they both walked out the door with the same level of knowledge. If the Yale student had received better/more, he/she would've scored better on the same test that the Montana State student took.

Is this not the purpose of the MCAT? How can one 36 be better than another 36 because of where the student went to school? Are we not more concerned about WHAT the student learns over WHERE the student learned it?

How can you expect a 3.8 XYZ UG to have to score 40+ on the same test that 3.8 Harvard got a 36 in order to be on the same ground? If they both got 36, then they are the same. How do you know the student from XYZ couldn't have gotten into Harvard, but simply didn't want to dig a whole of debt at 18? And in the end, if he scores the same as the Harvard student on the same test, show me why he is less capable of becoming a successful physician and why he is less competitive?

This makes it seem like you think the MCAT tests you on everything you learned in college, which it doesn't. It just tests you on intro bio, chem, physics and ochem. The MCAT doesn't show any fairness for the rest of the undergrad curriculum.

You can argue that student at XYZ university had more time to prep for the MCAT since their course loads are easier.

You can also argue that the MCAT is something you can drastically improve on. One can go from a 24 to a 36, but it's much harder to get good grades all the time, especially at a top university.

Another thing to think about is the set number of As top schools usually have. Let's say all schools set the percentage of As at 15%. That means a very smart student has a very high chance of getting that A competing against average students whereas at top tier schools, everyone is a very smart student and has to work significantly harder to make it to that top 15%.

These are some reasons why your argument makes no sense.

 

[noncon]

Originally Posted by amad01: "If UG with higher reputation truly is better or more rigorous than random UG, then considering 3.8 Harvard vs 3.8 XYZ state, the Harvard student should be expected to have a higher MCAT than the XYZ State student, because the 3.8 at Harvard was harder to get. If the 3.8 at Harvard was more difficult, a higher test score should be expected".

Not necessarily true. My sister spends so much time on language classes, French classes, Math classes and other meaningless classes at Harvard (Extension) that she barely gets any time to study for the MCAT. She also finds that she cannot focus on the more critical Science subjects because she is forced to focus on the course work of the more anal professors in other disciplines. In contrast a friend of mine at a state university in Michigan gets to focus solely on the MCAT and the more critical science subjects.

That being said, I too wish med schools would focus on the MCAT instead of other things. LizzyM is just the messenger who is telling us what is happening at her university and thereby giving us an amazing insight into the admission process. She is opening the black box and wonderfully de-mystifying the entire process for us.

 

[Plue00]

Originally Posted by amad01: "If UG with higher reputation truly is better or more rigorous than random UG, then considering 3.8 Harvard vs 3.8 XYZ state, the Harvard student should be expected to have a higher MCAT than the XYZ State student, because the 3.8 at Harvard was harder to get. If the 3.8 at Harvard was more difficult, a higher test score should be expected".

Not necessarily true. My sister spends so much time on language classes, French classes, Math classes and other meaningless classes at Harvard (Extension) that she barely gets any time to study for the MCAT. She also finds that she cannot focus on the more critical Science subjects because she is forced to focus on the course work of the more anal professors in other disciplines.

This goes along perfectly with what I was trying to say in the post before this! Thank you 🙂

 

[ijn]

This makes it seem like you think the MCAT tests you on everything you learned in college, which it doesn't. It just tests you on intro bio, chem, physics and ochem. The MCAT doesn't show any fairness for the rest of the undergrad curriculum.

You can also argue that student at XYZ university had more time to prep for the MCAT since their course loads are easier.

You can also argue that the MCAT is something you can drastically improve on. One can go from a 24 to a 36, but it's much harder to get good grades all the time, especially at a top university.

Another thing to think about is the set number of As top schools usually have. Let's say all schools set the percentage of As at 15%. That means a very smart student has a very high chance of getting that A competing against average students whereas at top tier schools, everyone is a very smart student.

These are some reasons why your argument makes no sense.

Please remember to look back 20 years from now and reflect upon how many patients asked or know where you went to undergraduate school (or medical school, or residency.) Hint: they won't ask and they don't care.

You're not better than anyone else simply because of where you went to school. The license you may eventually get to practice medicine will be the same as the guy who spent his whole life going to school in the great state of Mississippi. I know that must grate on your Ivy soul, but the prestige of your school doesn't matter too much in the long run.

 

[LizzyM]

I don't think we have a right to impose uniform acceptance criteria. Schools should be free to do what they please. However I think that people should be called out on blatantly classist sentiments. Just because you went to Harvard does not make you a better future medical student than if you went to University of Wyoming. This kind of thinking in academia will never change, but it does go to show how far off we are from the goal of producing the best physicians possible. It's more about producing the best matriculant list possible.

Classist? I'd wager that there is more diversity in Harvard College (undergrad) than at U Wyoming. Both are going to produce qualified applicants for med school but U Wyoming accepts 95% of its applicants (minimum gpa 3.0, ACT 21 or SAT ~950) compared with <6% of applicants to Harvard. Which school has more undergrads capable of successfully completing medical school?

 

[sunflower18]

Out of curiosity / a dream (haha), what would you think of an applicant who competed on a reality show like The Amazing Race, Survivor, American Idol, etc? Hopefully this isn't too much of a hypothetical.

 

[FictiousForce]

Do you judge the rigor of a semester solely on the amount of credits attempted or the classes themselves?

For example, 3 credits in Quantum Mechanics is not the same as 3 credits in General Chemistry I.

Also, I'd argue these technical courses are no harder at higher level institutions than they are at lower ranked schools. MIT releases exams and assignments from many of their classes and there is nothing especially difficult about these exams. In fact, we often use these exams as practice for our own exams. Also, the same textbooks are used across institutions.

Are adcoms ignorant of this or are these broad generalizations about the relative rigor between institutions just overlooking exceptions such as these types of courses? Many would say that the top students at lesser ranked universities are just as "top" as those from more prestigious institutions. Many of us chose these institutions for personal reasons beyond our control.

 

[LizzyM]

what do you view as the more important? MCAT or cGPA? i know they are the top two factors at just about every school, but what do you, personally, view as the more important one?

I treat them both the same

gpa(10)+MCAT= LizzyM score.

 

[noncon]

This goes along perfectly with what I was trying to say in the post before this! Thank you 🙂

You're welcome. I added something to that post - edited it a bit.

 

[ijn]

Classist? I'd wager that there is more diversity in Harvard College (undergrad) than at U Wyoming. Both are going to produce qualified applicants for med school but U Wyoming accepts 95% of its applicants (minimum gpa 3.0, ACT 21 or SAT ~950) compared with <6% of applicants to Harvard. Which school has more undergrads capable of successfully completing medical school?

It depends on how you define diversity. The state of Wyoming heavily subsidizes the tuition of everyone who is accepted (yes all states do that too, but Wyoming is so generous as to the point of it almost being free, as long as you graduated from a Wyoming high school.) In terms of socioeconomic status, it's probably one of the most egalitarian in the country. Race wise? Of course not, it's Wyoming. But the matriculating classes certainly are reflective of the population that lives in the state.

 

[LizzyM]

Please remember to look back 20 years from now and reflect upon how many patients asked or know where you went to undergraduate school (or medical school, or residency.) Hint: they won't ask and they don't care.

You're not better than anyone else simply because of where you went to school. The license you may eventually get to practice medicine will be the same as the guy who spent his whole life going to school in the great state of Mississippi. I know that must grate on your Ivy soul, but the prestige of your school doesn't matter too much in the long run.

With the internet, every doctor's medical school is there for all to see on public web sites such as www.healthgrades.com Some private practice and academic physicians will publicize their undergrad institution on a web page. I wonder if it will make a difference for some patients in some circumstances even if others find it meaningless?

 

[LizzyM]

Do you judge the rigor of a semester solely on the amount of credits attempted or the classes themselves?

For example, 3 credits in Quantum Mechanics is not the same as 3 credits in General Chemistry I.

Also, I'd argue these technical courses are no harder at higher level institutions than they are at lower ranked schools. MIT releases exams and assignments from many of their classes and there is nothing especially difficult about these exams. In fact, we often use these exams as practice for our own exams. Also, the same textbooks are used across institutions.

Are adcoms ignorant of this or are these broad generalizations about the relative rigor between institutions just overlooking exceptions such as these types of courses? Many would say that the top students at lesser ranked universities are just as "top" as those from more prestigious institutions. Many of us chose these institutions for personal reasons beyond our control.

We do try to look at the courses taken to determine the rigor of the curriculum and the course schedule.

We're trying to evaluate thousands of applicants to select the < 20% who will get an interview. It is an enormous undertaking and almost all of the work is done by volunteers on the faculty with some help from unpaid senior students.

 

[LizzyM]

Out of curiosity / a dream (haha), what would you think of an applicant who competed on a reality show like The Amazing Race, Survivor, American Idol, etc? Hopefully this isn't too much of a hypothetical.

That would be "interesting". I've not seen that but I have seen a few Jeopardy contestants and someone who was in the Miss Universe competition or something like that.

A hook like that can get you an interview (if you have everything else, too) but the interview can make or break you even with a hook.

 

[FictiousForce]

I'm sorry if this has been asked and answered before, but, what is the process like post interview?

I'd imagine the pool is still large and the amount of seats still small in proportion&#8212;at that point what factors determine acceptance?

Also: thank you for your time and the insights you provide. Often times in these boards a certain bubble is created from all the misinformation and teenaged angst. I'm glad you're here to contain that bubble.

 

[ijn]

With the internet, every doctor's medical school is there for all to see on public web sites such as www.healthgrades.com Some private practice and academic physicians will publicize their undergrad institution on a web page. I wonder if it will make a difference for some patients in some circumstances even if others find it meaningless?

Academic pages are intended for other academicians. You wouldn't dare see a physician put it on a business card or have it visible in a patient's room. The degree is in a picture frame over the physician's desk.

Healthgrades and the like are useful to the extent to which they tell you about the doctor's outcomes, patient feedback, and years of experience. Seeing Harvard under the education section has no correlation to whether he's better at lap choles than the guy down the street who graduated from the University of Wyoming.

If I were a patient, I'd pay much more attention to the feedback that had been posted and talking to other people who were that doctor's patient. But to each their own, I suppose.

 

[LizzyM]

I'm sorry if this has been asked and answered before, but, what is the process like post interview?

I'd imagine the pool is still large and the amount of seats still small in proportion—at that point what factors determine acceptance?

Also: thank you for your time and the insights you provide. Often times in these boards a certain bubble is created from all the misinformation and teenaged angst. I'm glad you're here to contain that bubble.

Scroll back on this thread to 12-24-2012, 10:17 AM It is after the first 300 posts but before the 400th.

 

[Si Se Puede]

Academic pages are intended for other academicians. You wouldn't dare see a physician put it on a business card or have it visible in a patient's room. The degree is in a picture frame over the physician's desk.

Healthgrades and the like are useful to the extent to which they tell you about the doctor's outcomes, patient feedback, and years of experience. Seeing Harvard under the education section has no correlation to whether he's better at lap choles than the guy down the street who graduated from the University of Wyoming.

If I were a patient, I'd pay much more attention to the feedback that had been posted and talking to other people who were that doctor's patient. But to each their own, I suppose.

My private practice doctor hangs copies of his degree in a picture frame in all of the patient rooms even though he graduated from a med school outside top 50...

 

[LizzyM]

Academic pages are intended for other academicians. You wouldn't dare see a physician put it on a business card or have it visible in a patient's room. The degree is in a picture frame over the physician's desk.

Healthgrades and the like are useful to the extent to which they tell you about the doctor's outcomes, patient feedback, and years of experience. Seeing Harvard under the education section has no correlation to whether he's better at lap choles than the guy down the street who graduated from the University of Wyoming.

If I were a patient, I'd pay much more attention to the feedback that had been posted and talking to other people who were that doctor's patient. But to each their own, I suppose.

Everyone is googling everything these days. I'm not so sure about that feedback. Usually the most happy and the most angry are most likely to post and the most happy posts can be bought and paid for. Restaurant reviews are the same deal. I'd rather know where the chef went to school and that the place hasn't been cited for violations by the health department. 😀

 

[Jepstein30]

Academic pages are intended for other academicians. You wouldn't dare see a physician put it on a business card or have it visible in a patient's room. The degree is in a picture frame over the physician's desk.

Healthgrades and the like are useful to the extent to which they tell you about the doctor's outcomes, patient feedback, and years of experience. Seeing Harvard under the education section has no correlation to whether he's better at lap choles than the guy down the street who graduated from the University of Wyoming.

If I were a patient, I'd pay much more attention to the feedback that had been posted and talking to other people who were that doctor's patient. But to each their own, I suppose.

What are you trying to get out of attacking LizzyM on an anonymous forum? Even if she could, it's not like she's just going to change her school's admission policies because you think so.

And I'm pretty sure there's a correlation between level of college education and future success in various fields.. strong, maybe not. but be real, these are the best of the best and more often than not, they will remain among the best of the best.

You aren't being discriminated against for not going to an Ivy League school, yet you've somehow convinced yourself you're a victim.

 

[Daitong]

Hi,

Being an engineer at a top 5 engineering school and top 50 overall school, my schedule is quite packed (18+ credits/semester). Would it be okay for ADCOMS to see me take ORGO 2 first semester senior year, or would this be frowned upon?

Thanks

 

[ijn]

My private practice doctor hangs copies of his degree in a picture frame in all of the patient rooms even though he graduated from a med school outside top 50...

So he had like 5+ copies of his degree framed? That seems awfully pretentious. I mean, they already know you have a MD before they set foot in the room. What purpose does it serve?

 

[LizzyM]

Hi,

Being an engineer at a top 5 engineering school and top 50 overall school, my schedule is quite packed (18+ credits/semester). Would it be okay for ADCOMS to see me take ORGO 2 first semester senior year, or would this be frowned upon?
Thanks

Well, it is going to make the MCAT more challenging because you will be tested on material you haven't covered in the classroom. Are you planning on a gap year (taking MCAT in spring of Senior year and applying around the time of college graduation)?

I remember a non-traditional student who didn't take Bio II until the Spring before matriculation; and yet he scored a 10 in Bio Sci and was admitted to at least 5 excellent schools. (I won't mention their names in order to avoid being called elitest.)

 

[argama]

Would it look bad that I had done most of my medical volunteering & clinical experiences during my gap year? I had my first clinical exposure in the summer before sophomore year on a medical volunteer trip to a 3rd world country where I stayed for 2.5 weeks and helped out in a clinic (I don't really know how many hours, it was a mix of shadowing + helping out + translating). I really enjoyed helping out there and I really want to go back but it's too $$$$.

Upon return, I had to focus on grades (it was crawling and not even that good ie ~3.5) and my other ECs (research + non-med volunteer+ "non-cookie cutter-ish EC") and although I started volunteering at a university hospital in my Junior year, my total hours there are little (~40 hrs) because I got very little clincal experience there and I decided it wasn't helpful to me. Also my junior year my grades were not very good compared to my soph and senior year.

Now it's my senior year, and I plan on trying to focusing on my last semester to get a 4.0 (hopefully raising my GPA to a mediocre 3.67) and I plan on using my gap year to do more research + rack up a lot of clinical experience hours at a clinic close to my home-home. My other cookie-cutter ECs are pretty good because I felt I had responsibilities to attend to & were very intrinsically rewarding experiences, especially the non-medical volunteering & research I did. I feel like I'm behind in volunteering and that most medical school will think bad that my volunteer hours are just to check it off.

Also (sorry for being wordy!) I come from a family of physicians, is this looked upon neg or favorably by adcoms? I've heard ppl say both so I wonder what you think, as an adcom? My parents and family never pressured me to become a doctor (in fact one of them told me not to do medicine! I was pretty stubborn in staying in) and two of them are senior attendings at a medical school hospital.

Thank you very much!

 

[pmarank]

Hey Lizzy thanks for doing this!!

I know you have been pretty consistent in saying that about 1/3 of the students at your schools have about a 3.6 gpa but is that overall or science? How does a 3.58 sci and 3.68 overall look at your school? Is that too big of a gap between sci and overall?

 

[argama]

.

 

[Si Se Puede]

So he had like 5+ copies of his degree framed? That seems awfully pretentious. I mean, they already know you have a MD before they set foot in the room. What purpose does it serve?

Because he can. 😛

There are actually a few states that have proposed making it mandatory to display credentials and surveys have shown that only half of Americans feel confident about the advertisements they see. In other words, just because someone claims they are a doctor and has the setup of a doctor does not mean they are a doctor and/or practicing within their licensed boundaries.

 

[LizzyM]

Would it look bad that I had done most of my medical volunteering & clinical experiences during my gap year? <snip> I come from a family of physicians, is this looked upon neg or favorably by adcoms? I've heard ppl say both so I wonder what you think, as an adcom? My parents and family never pressured me to become a doctor (in fact one of them told me not to do medicine! I was pretty stubborn in staying in) and two of them are senior attendings at a medical school hospital.

Thank you very much!

Adcoms want to know if you have a reasonable and realistic view of what a career in medicine involved and that you have been exposed to environments where patient care are delivered and you feel comfortable there. If you can show evidence of those things, you've got it covered. Having family who are physicians can cut both ways... some adcoms wll worry that you have had this decision forced on you and others will assume that your family "talks shop" at the dinner table and that you rounded with Dad (or another family member) on Saturday morning when you were a kid.

 

[LizzyM]

Hey Lizzy thanks for doing this!!

I know you have been pretty consistent in saying that about 1/3 of the students at your schools have about a 3.6 gpa but is that overall or science? How does a 3.58 sci and 3.68 overall look at your school? Is that too big of a gap between sci and overall?

I thought I said that 1/3 of the people who interview fall between 3.6 and 3.79. with about 2/3rs being 3.8 or higher. Now, many of those high stats applicants have multiple offers and go elsewhere... so the people who interview aren't necessarily the same in terms of stats as those who matriculate.

Anyway, I was referring to cGPA. That gap between sGPA and cGPA isn't bad.
It would make me look at the grades for the courses that make up sGPA to determine if there were some real disasters or just solid B+/A-.

 

[phikapdoctor]

How would you look upon being a core leader for church? I am looking into a position that I help junior high kids understand their faith. It is every Monday for 4 hours.
Also I give talks in front of 150+ kids about bible passages. Would this be considered leadership at all?
I don't want to commit that much time if it won't hold any weight in your guys eyes?
Thanks

 

[areserine]

You've mentioned a few times that you look to see if someone had solid B+/A- grades or a few disasters. I can't quite get a read on which is better. Would solid A's in almost all prereqs, but one C+/B- from freshman year which would take town the sGPA look like a fluke or would it be a major concern?

Is it better to have solid A's and one low grade, or to be solidly at the B+/A- range?

 

[LizzyM]

How would you look upon being a core leader for church? I am looking into a position that I help junior high kids understand their faith. It is every Monday for 4 hours.
Also I give talks in front of 150+ kids about bible passages. Would this be considered leadership at all?
I don't want to commit that much time if it won't hold any weight in your guys eyes?
Thanks

Please forgive me for skipping over your question earlier this evening.

If you don't want to lead children in their faith formation then don't do it. If you are only doing it because it will hold some weight in the eyes of an adcom, you shouldn't be doing it.

Junior high kids aren't really your peers and you aren't engaging with them in the accomplishment of a common goal so I'm not sure I'd call this "leadership". (If you were leading 5 or 10 small group leaders who worked with the jr high kids with the common goal of bringing the little heathens to the Lord, then you'd have some leadership experience).

 

[LizzyM]

You've mentioned a few times that you look to see if someone had solid B+/A- grades or a few disasters. I can't quite get a read on which is better. Would solid A's in almost all prereqs, but one C+/B- from freshman year which would take town the sGPA look like a fluke or would it be a major concern?

Is it better to have solid A's and one low grade, or to be solidly at the B+/A- range?

There are so many different possibilities. What do we think of someone with mostly A-'s a few B's and a pair of C- in physics Labs I and II? Is that more or less worrisome than someone who had a C- in a 2 credit course on mycology? What about a C+ in Chem II ? Are no grades less than B better than some grades below B but the same sGPA?

In the end, we want to know if this applicant appears to have what it takes to be successful in medical school. Is this a strong candidate with a good work ethic and an excellent fund of knowledge? After a few minutes wrestling with the application, a decision to interview or not is made.

Do your best and hope for the best.

 

[Si Se Puede]

What does "most significant" mean exactly on the Work/Activities section? Does it mean most significant to your decision to apply to med school/want to be a doctor or most significant throughout your undergrad? For me, I workout everyday and would die if I missed going to the gym but I am guessing the adcom would not look favorably at that being a "most significant" activity? Or is any activity okay as long as there is a story behind it and why it is important, even if the activity has no bearing besides a way to relieve stress/stay fit.

 

[rb121]

If interviewing is like that 'rungs of a ladder' analogy that you spoke about, and that if they've already decided you are going to be waitlisted--why interview these people at all? What's the point of interviewing people who you aren't really interested in/have no intention of accepting? Just curious about the reasoning behind this.

 

[911 Turbo]

Do adcoms actually have time to sift through the details of what classes the applicant took? Do you see what classes the applicant got a A/B/C/D/F in or do you look at the overall gpa and science gpa?

 

[Narmerguy]

During a gap year?? Neither seems very good. We'd like to see some employment in a research lab or other research setting, employment in a health-related industry (such as electronic medical record development -- is everyone working for Epic this year??) or consulting, or in a clinical setting, or working in a tutoring facility or as a teacher or substitute teacher, or being involved in a social service agency (maybe as part of something like City Year).

Assistant manager of a pizza restaurant, not so much... but it pays the bills.

Unemployment isn't that high for smart, young college grads so seeing someone who hasn't found something seems a little suspect.

People should probably try to skim or search through this thread before posting questions. A lot of these are simple repeats of what has already been asked. Also, let's try to keep the thread on topic and not devolve into arguments for which there are already (many) separate threads.

 

[gettheleadout]

And would you rather choose a

A) Physics major with a 3.4 GPA and 40 MCAT
B) Humanities major with a 3.9 GPA and 30 MCAT

for admission into medical school, all other factors alike?

No hypotheticals bro.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

 

[sunflower18]

Is it better to have depth or breadth with activities? Both would be ideal, of course, but would you rather see 6 hours a week at one activity, or two activities at 3 hours a week each? As a student, it's tricky to find the balance between exploring options vs doing a few things thoroughly / well. Another concern is that multiple activities with smaller time commitments may seem like resume padding. What are your thoughts?

 

[Juxxtaposition]

Thanks for doing this!

In an earlier post you said that individuals from lower tier undergrads are screened out by some top ranked Ivies. Is that to say that your school does not accept anyone from public undergrads like Berkeley?

 

[MD22412]

For an applicant who is borderline the mean/median for a top school (Upenn/Mayo/OSU/UCSF/Hopkins) and they are on the WAIT LIST/ or HOLD but this is POST-INTERVIEW. Lets say they are slightly below the average even, stats-wise.

Let's consider their interview to be slightly above average. Their LORs are strong. Their ECs are strong. They are of a particular demographic we can add to our class. They have something special which we like. HOWEVER, there are simply too many qualified applicants, so we're going to wait-list/hold that applicant.

My perception for the waitlist situation is that the selection is AMBIGUOUS at that point because there is so much middle ground between discussing applicants... that slightest weaknesses are greatly amplified, and then if that particular demographic with regards to the applicant (specific hobby they've carried through + family background + major + geographic distribution + Ugrad school + etc.) is filled we will waitlist him/her.

NOW, I understand that there is an excess number of acceptances given in order to compensate for those applicants who do not choose to attend the particular school this particular applicant may have been waitlisted, for more preferable institutions in their minds.

So my questions is, WHAT is the biggest deciding factor in students coming off the waitlist? (is it a demographic/stats-distribution/etc.)

And in that question, I have a question regarding the condition that, if NOW schools see what other schools students have been accepted to, and they see that they've been accepted to say, Vanderbilt, would they still extend an offer? or would they more likely extend offer of admit to someone who's been accepted only to more lower ranked schools (because after a certain date schools can see who gets in where, right?).

Considering an applicant continually provides updates, and writes well-thought out, SPECIFIC, and good LOIs to said schools, compiles a few more LORs, and then makes some phone calls, what are said chances of acceptance to the school. And what are the chances if he/shes waitlisted at 5 of these top schools???

Is there a chance in hell? 🙂

Thank you

 

[amad01]

This makes it seem like you think the MCAT tests you on everything you learned in college, which it doesn't. It just tests you on intro bio, chem, physics and ochem. The MCAT doesn't show any fairness for the rest of the undergrad curriculum.

You can argue that student at XYZ university had more time to prep for the MCAT since their course loads are easier.

You can also argue that the MCAT is something you can drastically improve on. One can go from a 24 to a 36, but it's much harder to get good grades all the time, especially at a top university.

Another thing to think about is the set number of As top schools usually have. Let's say all schools set the percentage of As at 15%. That means a very smart student has a very high chance of getting that A competing against average students whereas at top tier schools, everyone is a very smart student and has to work significantly harder to make it to that top 15%.

These are some reasons why your argument makes no sense.

The MCAT doesn't test everything you learn in college, which further proves my point. The only criteria an ADCOM has is GPA and MCAT and to say one 36 is better than another 36 based on where they went to UG puts students from less prestigious schools at a terrible disadvantage. I attend a top 20 research school and I still take this stand.

How can you possibly argue student at XYZ had more time to prep for MCAT? How could you even try to prove which course load is easier? It would take an investigation of not only each and every class, but each and every professor, test, grading style, curve, extra credit, lecture style, amount of info taught vs amount of info tested, which book was used, number of students in the class.... take all of this from each class and line it up and compare it student to student.

The only data you can use is students at Harvard are smarter because they have a higher SAT score, WHICH IS A STANDARDIZED EXAM and then you will turn around and say the MCAT (A STANDARDIZED EXAM) does not show that a 36 from the ivy's matches a 36 from North Dakota.

 

[phikapdoctor]

Please forgive me for skipping over your question earlier this evening.

If you don't want to lead children in their faith formation then don't do it. If you are only doing it because it will hold some weight in the eyes of an adcom, you shouldn't be doing it.

Junior high kids aren't really your peers and you aren't engaging with them in the accomplishment of a common goal so I'm not sure I'd call this "leadership". (If you were leading 5 or 10 small group leaders who worked with the jr high kids with the common goal of bringing the little heathens to the Lord, then you'd have some leadership experience).

No problem. Would it be worth it to write it down as non clinical volunteering?
I actually have done it in the past, but it is a big commitment and my number one focus to help build my application first, before fun 😉

 

[Dick Jones]

Thanks again LizzyM!

At all of my interviews, I've only worn 3-piece suits. How do you feel about them? Do they attract too much attention or seem flashy?

Thanks again!

 

[LizzyM]

What does "most significant" mean exactly on the Work/Activities section? Does it mean most significant to your decision to apply to med school/want to be a doctor or most significant throughout your undergrad? For me, I workout everyday and would die if I missed going to the gym but I am guessing the adcom would not look favorably at that being a "most significant" activity? Or is any activity okay as long as there is a story behind it and why it is important, even if the activity has no bearing besides a way to relieve stress/stay fit.

This is undefined as far as I know. If you could list only 3 items in the experience section, which 3 would you list?

Another way to look at it: which 3 items need the additional space provided for "most significant" experiences.

 

[LizzyM]

Do adcoms actually have time to sift through the details of what classes the applicant took? Do you see what classes the applicant got a A/B/C/D/F in or do you look at the overall gpa and science gpa?

Some do, some don't. Sometimes it is like looking at a blood count and chemistry panel, you look at what is exceptional rather than what is within range. The LORs from some of the better pre-med committees will also point out which super-hard classes the applicant took and did well in or that they completed a sequence that is not typically taken by pre-meds, etc.

 

[IlDestriero]

Thanks again LizzyM!

At all of my interviews, I've only worn 3-piece suits. How do you feel about them? Do they attract too much attention or seem flashy?

Thanks again!

There are multiple threads about interview wear.

 

[LizzyM]

Is it better to have depth or breadth with activities? Both would be ideal, of course, but would you rather see 6 hours a week at one activity, or two activities at 3 hours a week each? As a student, it's tricky to find the balance between exploring options vs doing a few things thoroughly / well. Another concern is that multiple activities with smaller time commitments may seem like resume padding. What are your thoughts?

To quote gettheleadout,

no hypotheticals bro

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for doing this!

In an earlier post you said that individuals from lower tier undergrads are screened out by some top ranked Ivies. Is that to say that your school does not accept anyone from public undergrads like Berkeley?

😱 Please show me where I said that.