Ask LizzyM (Almost) Anything 2012 edition

[LizzyM]

Sorry for being redundant, but Lollygag mentioned one interesting point. Do top schools really request LOR's from all PI's? Somehow, that doesn't make much sense since I thought there's a maximum letter of 4 or 5 letters. I could be wrong, so please clarify. Thanks.

If you submit a letter packet, there is no limit to the numer of letters you can submit within the packet. I saw a packet the other day that was >17 pages!

Some adcom members are anal about seeing a LOR from every PI. Most people don't have more than 2 PIs. Other adcom members don't seem to care (in large part, it is the adcom members who are very involved in research who really care).

 

[shahcoco]

So your question is are 2 months of community health education a useful "experience".

I'd say it would be a minor plus if done abroad and a bigger plus if done in the US if you are applying to US medical schools.

Thank you!

 

[dechristine]

Hi LizzyM!

When people say that you can "replace" introductory-level medical school requirements like bio and gen chem with upper level classes if you have AP credit, do the upper level classes also have to have a lab like gen bio and gen chem do?

I'm a freshman physics major who skipped physics 1 and 2 (credit from AP Physics C). A year of "physics with lab" is required for most medical schools, but at my university there is only one upper level physics class with a lab segment. It feels like a waste of time and credit to retake physics 1 and 2, especially since I'm majoring in physics anyway.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM,

Thanks for doing this!

Do most applicants send in update letters post-interview?

I have no idea because I don't see the applications more than a week or two after interview.

Would not sending one be seen as a lack of interest?

I think that it is seen as a lack of interest if you end up on the waitlist. Some people forget to withdraw from the waitlist even though they are going elsewhere. A Letter of interest indicates interest and not just neglect.

I am a senior, and I don't have much to add to my application, since I've pretty much just continued with the same activities. I am working on a new research project in place of my old one, and did mention this on the secondaries for most schools, but nothing substantial has come out of it yet. Would it be appropriate to send an update letter mentioning the new project and to say I've continued with so and so activities?

Unless the school has told you otherwise, I'd wait until you've been notified that you've been waitlisted and then only if you like that school more than the school(s) that have accepted you outright.

Also, should fall semester grades be sent in to schools? I took a very light semester because of interviews (only 12 credits, some of which are research credits, and a 100 level course), but have maintained my GPA, so I was wondering if the light course load would look poorly to schools.

Thank you!!!

See above. As far as I can tell, additional grades seldom help the exception being people enrolled in SMPs during the application year.

 

[LizzyM]

Is it better for applicants to do something really meaningful and beneficial such as full time research internship at another university, full time job etc. during the summer when you turn in apps?

Better than what?

Is 2 science classes (or math classes) with 15 to 16 credits total per semester considered a good course load?

That's pretty much average, isn't it?

 

[Jepstein30]

Few questions, if you don't mind:

1) Regarding retaking the MCAT, is there a certain score you would advise against retaking (regardless of practice test performance, etc.)? Is there a certain score you would 'penalize' an applicant for retaking?
2) What is the 1-2 things you would change about the admissions process if you could?
3) Could taking a gap year DURING undergrad negatively affect an applicant (assuming he/she doesn't just sit on the couch all year)? I'm pondering one myself both as a means to give me time to slow down + reflect as well as to engage in some activities to strengthen my application that I really wouldn't be able to do in the future
4) What's your favorite medical TV show??
5) Doing well on the MCAT is one way to 'prove' one's GPA has been in some way affected by undergraduate rigor, are there any other ways? For example, taking classes at other colleges (non-community)?

Thanks so much, this is a huge help! Happy holidays!

 

[LizzyM]

Wouldn't it be appropriate to return to the fruit cake lady for the holidays?

Besides that, thanks for your dedication to the forums.

These youngin' don't remember the Fruitcake Lady. I'm feeling just about that cranky lately, though.

 

[pseudoname]

So in my junior year. my professor turned me and another student in for cheating to the dean. I had to go through a long process and attend a hearing and everything to take care of it. I was found innocent and told the entire thing would just be wiped away. (I did not cheat. Only other student did). Would I list this as an institutional action?

 

[LizzyM]

Dear Lizzy,

First of all, thanks so much for devoting your time and answering all our questions, it's really amazing what you do here.

Secondly, after my interviews, while waiting for decisions; is there anything to do that would be benificial such as sending a letter of interest or anything.

Also what do you recommend sending anything or taking some action to schools that I haven't heard from at this point or put on preinterview hold ?

Thanks

Letters of interest might help if you are waitlisted; I'm not sure of their value in other circumstances although I've heard that some schools love them.

An up-date letter might help at a school that has you on pre-interview hold if it is a really remarkable accomplishment (like a first author publication).

 

[LizzyM]

Do you ever find yourself tiring of medical school admissions -- or do you feel you will remain knee-deep in pre-meds until you completely retire?

Yes, by about this time of year when we are still reading applications, doing interviews, and making decisions. But by August I'll be ready to jump in again.

 

[uphillBattle]

Dear Lizzy, Truly appreciate your help. I'm coming from the position of an engineering/business non-trad who decided very late to do medicine.

I was wondering if you could see whether my GPA breakdown displays an upward trend:

Please note: upper division refers to the advanced major courses. Lower division courses never really interested me.

cGPA:

Semester by semester:
1 (3 classes - 12 units): 3.9
2 (5 classes - 17 units): 3.029
Summer (3 classes - 12 units): 2.67
3 (5 classes - 17 units): 2.72
4 (4 classes - 15 units): 3.22
5 (4 classes - 15 units): 3.33 - upper division heavy
6 (4 classes -14 units): 3.43 - upper division heavy
7 (5 classes - 18 units): 3.78 - upper division heavy
8 (4 classes - 16 units): 3.68 - upper division heavy
9 (4 classes - 15 units): 3.9 - upper division heavy


sGPA - only BCPM
1 (3 classes - 12 units): 3.9
2 (4 classes - 13 units): 2.946
Summer (2 classes - 8 units): 2.350
3 (4 classes - 13 units): 2.638
4 (3 classes - 11 units): 3.19
5 (3 classes - 12 units): 3.33
6 (4 classes -14 units): 3.43 - upper division heavy
7 (4 classes - 14 units): 3.714 - upper division heavy
8 (3 classes - 12 units): 3.566 - upper division heavy
9 (3 classes - 11 units): 3.9 - upper division heavy
Graduation
Summer 2012 (1 class - 3 units): 4.0 - upper division heavy
Fall 2012 (3 classes - 7 units): Estimated - 4.0 - upper division heavy

I'm really hesitant about doing an SMP because I don't want my parents to continue paying for my mistakes and I'm currently working full time. Clinical ECs are being worked on and I have plenty of ECs form college.

Thank you for your time.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM!

When people say that you can "replace" introductory-level medical school requirements like bio and gen chem with upper level classes if you have AP credit, do the upper level classes also have to have a lab like gen bio and gen chem do?

I have no idea. Check the MSAR or ask the schools that interest you.

I'm a freshman physics major who skipped physics 1 and 2 (credit from AP Physics C). A year of "physics with lab" is required for most medical schools, but at my university there is only one upper level physics class with a lab segment. It feels like a waste of time and credit to retake physics 1 and 2, especially since I'm majoring in physics anyway.

 

[ribbondino]

I love you, LizzyM. 😍

Does LizzyM have anything to do with your actual name?

Oh, and do you have any books that you would recommend premeds to read? Or any books that you like in general that are nonfiction? (I get bored reading fiction.)

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Josh7]

Dear Lizzy, Truly appreciate your help. I'm coming from the position of an engineering/business non-trad who decided very late to do medicine.

I was wondering if you could see whether my GPA breakdown displays an upward trend:

Please note: upper division refers to the advanced major courses. Lower division courses never really interested me.

cGPA:

Semester by semester:
1 (3 classes - 12 units): 3.9
2 (5 classes - 17 units): 3.029
Summer (3 classes - 12 units): 2.67
3 (5 classes - 17 units): 2.72
4 (4 classes - 15 units): 3.22
5 (4 classes - 15 units): 3.33 - upper division heavy
6 (4 classes -14 units): 3.43 - upper division heavy
7 (5 classes - 18 units): 3.78 - upper division heavy
8 (4 classes - 16 units): 3.68 - upper division heavy
9 (4 classes - 15 units): 3.9 - upper division heavy


sGPA - only BCPM
1 (3 classes - 12 units): 3.9
2 (4 classes - 13 units): 2.946
Summer (2 classes - 8 units): 2.350
3 (4 classes - 13 units): 2.638
4 (3 classes - 11 units): 3.19
5 (3 classes - 12 units): 3.33
6 (4 classes -14 units): 3.43 - upper division heavy
7 (4 classes - 14 units): 3.714 - upper division heavy
8 (3 classes - 12 units): 3.566 - upper division heavy
9 (3 classes - 11 units): 3.9 - upper division heavy
Graduation
Summer 2012 (1 class - 3 units): 4.0 - upper division heavy
Fall 2012 (3 classes - 7 units): Estimated - 4.0 - upper division heavy

I'm really hesitant about doing an SMP because I don't want my parents to continue paying for my mistakes and I'm currently working full time. Clinical ECs are being worked on and I have plenty of ECs form college.

Thank you for your time.

👎

 

[TheShaker]

Do you think LOI's that only express interest without giving any updates help? I feel somewhat awkward about sending one solely to tell them how much I like them.

Furthermore, for post-interview letters, is it better to send them before or after a decision is made?

Thanks!

 

[LizzyM]

Few questions, if you don't mind:

1) Regarding retaking the MCAT, is there a certain score you would advise against retaking (regardless of practice test performance, etc.)?

36 or higher

Is there a certain score you would 'penalize' an applicant for retaking?

38 or higher

2) What is the 1-2 things you would change about the admissions process if you could?

I'd love far fewer applications and a way of interviewing far fewer applicants but those who would be likely to matriculate if offered admission. This process is so inefficient compared to PhD applications but then again, the classes are much larger.

3) Could taking a gap year DURING undergrad negatively affect an applicant (assuming he/she doesn't just sit on the couch all year)? I'm pondering one myself both as a means to give me time to slow down + reflect as well as to engage in some activities to strengthen my application that I really wouldn't be able to do in the future

It tends to confuse adcoms (except Mormon missions which we've become accustomed to) to take a break in the middle of undergrad but I suppose for some good reason it could work out.

4) What's your favorite medical TV show??

ER -- the very early seasons.

House -- the early seasons

M*A*S*H

St. Elsewhere

5) Doing well on the MCAT is one way to 'prove' one's GPA has been in some way affected by undergraduate rigor, are there any other ways? For example, taking classes at other colleges (non-community)?

😕

Thanks so much, this is a huge help! Happy holidays!

 

[LizzyM]

So in my junior year. my professor turned me and another student in for cheating to the dean. I had to go through a long process and attend a hearing and everything to take care of it. I was found innocent and told the entire thing would just be wiped away. (I did not cheat. Only other student did). Would I list this as an institutional action?

You could but in the end the school did not take an action against you so I'm not sure you have something to report.

 

[LizzyM]

Dear Lizzy, Truly appreciate your help. I'm coming from the position of an engineering/business non-trad who decided very late to do medicine.

I was wondering if you could see whether my GPA breakdown displays an upward trend:

Please note: upper division refers to the advanced major courses. Lower division courses never really interested me.

cGPA:

Semester by semester:
1 (3 classes - 12 units): 3.9
2 (5 classes - 17 units): 3.029
Summer (3 classes - 12 units): 2.67
3 (5 classes - 17 units): 2.72
4 (4 classes - 15 units): 3.22
5 (4 classes - 15 units): 3.33 - upper division heavy
6 (4 classes -14 units): 3.43 - upper division heavy
7 (5 classes - 18 units): 3.78 - upper division heavy
8 (4 classes - 16 units): 3.68 - upper division heavy
9 (4 classes - 15 units): 3.9 - upper division heavy


sGPA - only BCPM
1 (3 classes - 12 units): 3.9
2 (4 classes - 13 units): 2.946
Summer (2 classes - 8 units): 2.350
3 (4 classes - 13 units): 2.638
4 (3 classes - 11 units): 3.19
5 (3 classes - 12 units): 3.33
6 (4 classes -14 units): 3.43 - upper division heavy
7 (4 classes - 14 units): 3.714 - upper division heavy
8 (3 classes - 12 units): 3.566 - upper division heavy
9 (3 classes - 11 units): 3.9 - upper division heavy
Graduation
Summer 2012 (1 class - 3 units): 4.0 - upper division heavy
Fall 2012 (3 classes - 7 units): Estimated - 4.0 - upper division heavy

I'm really hesitant about doing an SMP because I don't want my parents to continue paying for my mistakes and I'm currently working full time. Clinical ECs are being worked on and I have plenty of ECs form college.

Thank you for your time.

You call yourself an engineer and you can't collapse this into academic years and graph it?

 

[AestheticGod]

I recently transferred from a CC to a University. After going to the Uni for a semester, i wasn't allowed to sign up for classes the next semester because of some missing paper works and complicated issues (i didn't get in trouble or anything). So i'm pretty much forced to go back to a CC for one semester and taking only 3 classes. Will this be a problem for me?


second question: Why does it say on top of your picture "the evil queen of numbers", but your location is "the bat cave". No one evil lives in the bat cave. Are you a secret spy infiltrating the bat cave for a secret organization?

 

[LizzyM]

I love you, LizzyM. 😍

Does LizzyM have anything to do with your actual name?

It might but actually I borrowed it from someone I love.

Oh, and do you have any books that you would recommend premeds to read? Or any books that you like in general that are nonfiction? (I get bored reading fiction.)

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Forgive and Remember Managing Medical Failure by Charles L. Bosk. It is an oldie but very good, a sociologist's field report of a year (or so) following surgical teams. Very readable.

The Lazarus Case Life and Death Issues in Neonatal Intensive Care by John D. Lantos, MD.

Letters to a Young Doctor by Richard Selzer, MD (his other books of essays & short stories are good, too)

Death Foretold by Nicholas A. Christakis (about making and communicating prognosis)

Knife Man by Wendy Moore (about John Hunter, eighteenth century British surgeon-scientist-- you can check out the table on contents on Amazon and you may be hooked!])

The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks by Rebecca Skloot (the story of HeLa cells and the woman they came from)

most recently, I read

The Dawn of Innovation: The First American Industrial Revolution by Charles R. Morris (nineteenth century history)

 

[LizzyM]

Do you think LOI's that only express interest without giving any updates help? I feel somewhat awkward about sending one solely to tell them how much I like them.

I'm told that some schools, like some women, like this sort of thing. Take your cues from the school.

Furthermore, for post-interview letters, is it better to send them before or after a decision is made?

Thanks!

Send a thank you letter asap if you are going to send one. After that, my experience is that they only help if you are on the waitlist but YMMV and you should see the school specific threads for the best information.

 

[LizzyM]

I recently transferred from a CC to a University. After going to the Uni for a semester, i wasn't allowed to sign up for classes the next semester because of some missing paper works and complicated issues (i didn't get in trouble or anything). So i'm pretty much forced to go back to a CC for one semester and taking only 3 classes. Will this be a problem for me?

It is going to raise questions. Do you have to take CC classes or could you just take a semester off (get a job, do full-time volunteer work, whatev') while the paperwork is sorted out?

 

[LizzyM]

Whew! Caught up again. Don't you people ever sleep?😀

 

[Jas1360]

Why are you still awake?

 

[AestheticGod]

It is going to raise questions. Do you have to take CC classes or could you just take a semester off (get a job, do full-time volunteer work, whatev') while the paperwork is sorted out?

Basically the paperwork is regarding me not getting enough credits from the CC in order to transfer to the University (they required 60, but i only got 57 because of financial issues). So I am forced to literally take ONE class in that CC, but i decided to take 3 classes so I don't look like i'm doing NOTHING at all.


EDIT:
second question: Why does it say on top of your picture "the evil queen of numbers", but your location is "the bat cave". No one evil lives in the bat cave. Are you a secret spy infiltrating the bat cave for a secret organization?

 

[sunflower18]

Few more questions 🙂

- Do you like to see continuous clinical involvement through all four years of undergrad? If an applicant had no clinical volunteering or work for one of their years, would that be looked at unfavourably?

- You mentioned that you noticed if applicants take MCAT during the year or during the summer. How much does that matter to you? Would you be alarmed by a low MCAT score from an August test date, for example? And is a light semester (12 credits) justifiable while studying for the MCAT -- as long as the previous semester has at least 18 credits?

- A lot of my activities involve teaching and working with kids. Some people have commented that my resume looks like I'm not sure if I want to be a doctor or a teacher. Would this be a turnoff? I am very interested in pediatrics, so it makes sense to me, but I didn't want it to seem like I was indecisive about my path.

- Would a school appreciate it or be annoyed by a future applicant calling the admissions office to ask questions about how best to tailor their application, what kinds of activities they look for, etc?

- I went to an arts school for 7 years before college (6-12), and have therefore had a somewhat unique journey to finding medicine and have an unusual background. Would this be something that I could emphasise in my application, assuming I continue some form of art throughout undergrad, or should I not mention it unless absolutely relevant to an interview question because it was so long ago / might be looked down upon?

- Is there a point where too much shadowing looks bad?

- Does an activity such as scribing or being a CNA impress you beyond simply noting that the applicant has, indeed, had clinical experience?

THANK YOU!

 

[La Presse]

Sup Lizzy. I'm back.

With regard to the post-interview process, how does the committee systematically evaluate each candidate?

Is this process Socratic and members of the committee are constantly yelling things like, "Reject him! He only has a 3.X GPA."? I would obviously expect there to be significant reflection n applicants.

I have heard of instances where the interviewer strongly advocates the applicant, but the general consensus of the committee is a waitlist or rejection. Why would that be? Can you gimme an example?

I can't fall asleep. 🙁

 

[drshark]

Hi Lizzy! Why do some people with low stats receive interviews, then get rejected based off their low stats... why interview them in the first place? I recently interviewed with a much lower mcat than the school average and am wondering if during the committee meeting, they may see it and reject me just based off of it. Thank you!

 

[premed2000]

Hi LizzyM, Thanks for doing this!

1) In your experience, how important is applying early in the cycle and how much does it truly hurt one's chances if apply late? I truly think this is one of the reasons that I have been so unsuccessful this cycle. I have a 34Q (13/9/12) for PS/V/BS and a 3.77/3.82. I submitted my AMCAS end of june with a 31Q, but retook MCAT in August and got a 34Q, which means most of my files were not complete until mid/late september. I mean, a 3.77 cGPA/3.82 sGPA and a 34Q are all pretty decent stats, but I've had only 1 II and 13 rejections this cycle. I also believe I have fairly decent research experiences and volunteer experiences. So I can't help but put a lot of blame on the lateness of my application.

I know I probably applied to fairly top-heavy schools with all within top 50 USNEWs ranking and only two outside of top 50. The one II I got was from outside of top 50.


2) If I do end up being a reapplicant, how much do ADCOMS expect reapplicants to improve their application? If I am reapplying next cycle, then I really don't have much time to drastically improve between this cycle and the next. All I can really do is applying very early. Does this mean I should think about applying during the 2014 cycle so I have time to really boost up my ECs so i'll have a "drastic improvement''? Or does "drastically improving" an application not as important as most say and I should go ahead and reapply during the 2013 cycle?

Thanks so much!

 

[noncon]

Dr. Lizzy, you said you like to see at least 30-32-34 credits a year. At Harvard Extension's ALB, they make you "pay your dues" for a Harvard degree by greatly expanding the workload and making exams insanely difficult, so you are advised to take only 8 credits a semester during the ALB. If you take more than 8, you get an email from your advisor asking you if you're crazy and another email from Harvard Extension or the ALB program office telling you this is a bad idea. All this means a person can realistically take only 16 credits a year - which itself is a killing workload at the ALB program. Of course you can take an additional 4 credits over the summer when tuition is very steep but that still takes you to only 20 credits a year.
- Does this mean adcoms will frown on such applicants?
- Is it better to boost your credits by taking additional classes at an "easier" school?

 

[ribbondino]

It might but actually I borrowed it from someone I love.



Forgive and Remember Managing Medical Failure by Charles L. Bosk. It is an oldie but very good, a sociologist's field report of a year (or so) following surgical teams. Very readable.

The Lazarus Case Life and Death Issues in Neonatal Intensive Care by John D. Lantos, MD.

Letters to a Young Doctor by Richard Selzer, MD (his other books of essays & short stories are good, too)

Death Foretold by Nicholas A. Christakis (about making and communicating prognosis)

Knife Man by Wendy Moore (about John Hunter, eighteenth century British surgeon-scientist-- you can check out the table on contents on Amazon and you may be hooked!])

The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks by Rebecca Skloot (the story of HeLa cells and the woman they came from)

most recently, I read

The Dawn of Innovation: The First American Industrial Revolution by Charles R. Morris (nineteenth century history)

This list sounds great, thank you! I've actually been looking for the Henrietta Lacks book , I will probably have to end up ordering it online. I love finding new authors!! Have you read anything by Robert Marion? I LOVE him.
Thanks again!!! 😀

 

[Notsureuser]

Duplicate post

 

[Notsureuser]

Given that we rarely interview students who score lower than the 90th percentile on the MCAT, seeing applicants in that range (>35) who had accommodations is highly unusual.

In your school to get interviewed ,you need a 35+ ?

So there are schools that won't consider you unless you have a steller mcat score?

I was hoping the rest of my application/gpa makes up for my mcat

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[plumazul]

-- "database error" ??

 

[plumazul]

Given that we rarely interview students who score lower than the 90th percentile on the MCAT, seeing applicants in that range (>35) who had accommodations is highly unusual.

Did you mean to say "lower than the 97th percentile" or did you mean "> 32"?

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/320554/data/combined12.pdf.pdf

 

[LizzyM]

Why are you still awake?

a. baking cookies
b. answering questions
c. cleaning up powdered sugar
d. in training to stay awake through Midnight Mass
e. all of the above

 

[LizzyM]

Basically the paperwork is regarding me not getting enough credits from the CC in order to transfer to the University (they required 60, but i only got 57 because of financial issues). So I am forced to literally take ONE class in that CC, but i decided to take 3 classes so I don't look like i'm doing NOTHING at all.


EDIT:
second question: Why does it say on top of your picture "the evil queen of numbers", but your location is "the bat cave". No one evil lives in the bat cave. Are you a secret spy infiltrating the bat cave for a secret organization?

Thank you for pointing out that inconsistency.

 

[LizzyM]

Few more questions 🙂

- Do you like to see continuous clinical involvement through all four years of undergrad?

I like to see it but it is unusual.

If an applicant had no clinical volunteering or work for one of their years, would that be looked at unfavourably?

As long as there are one or two years of clinical volunteering you might be ok.

- You mentioned that you noticed if applicants take MCAT during the year or during the summer. How much does that matter to you?

It doesn't matter much.

Would you be alarmed by a low MCAT score from an August test date, for example?

No.

And is a light semester (12 credits) justifiable while studying for the MCAT -- as long as the previous semester has at least 18 credits?

I'd not even notice.

- A lot of my activities involve teaching and working with kids. Some people have commented that my resume looks like I'm not sure if I want to be a doctor or a teacher. Would this be a turnoff? I am very interested in pediatrics, so it makes sense to me, but I didn't want it to seem like I was indecisive about my path.

Volunteering with kids and wanting to be a doctor who treats kids makes a cohesive narrative.

- Would a school appreciate it or be annoyed by a future applicant calling the admissions office to ask questions about how best to tailor their application, what kinds of activities they look for, etc?

🙄 It might be perceived as someone who is trying to check all the right boxes. We get >5,000 applications per year. Can you imagine how many phone calls that would represent from prospective applicants? Buy a copy of the MSAR.

- I went to an arts school for 7 years before college (6-12), and have therefore had a somewhat unique journey to finding medicine and have an unusual background. Would this be something that I could emphasise in my application, assuming I continue some form of art throughout undergrad, or should I not mention it unless absolutely relevant to an interview question because it was so long ago / might be looked down upon?

It makes you unusual so it might be worth playing up as someone who brings a certain kind of diversity of experience to the table.

- Is there a point where too much shadowing looks bad?

Stop watching passively and do something of service or obtain gainful employment. I'd think that more than 5 shadow experiences would look like "too much". The point is to get an idea about what the practice of medicine involves. Five different experiences or more than 40 hours with a single doc should be more than enough time to get an idea.

- Does an activity such as scribing or being a CNA impress you beyond simply noting that the applicant has, indeed, had clinical experience?

THANK YOU!

Yes. clinical employment is a plus.

 

[LizzyM]

Sup Lizzy. I'm back.

With regard to the post-interview process, how does the committee systematically evaluate each candidate?

Is this process Socratic and members of the committee are constantly yelling things like, "Reject him! He only has a 3.X GPA."? I would obviously expect there to be significant reflection n applicants.

I have heard of instances where the interviewer strongly advocates the applicant, but the general consensus of the committee is a waitlist or rejection. Why would that be? Can you gimme an example?

I can't fall asleep. 🙁

Schools do things differently and my school has morphed over the years as new technology has become available and new people have joined the process.

There are several teams that work in parallel. Applicants are assigned to teams either at random or according to a specific scheme (e.g. geographic, by undergrad institution or by groups of majors). Each team consists of faculty and senior students.
This relatively large group has access to the entire file including AMCAS, secondary, LORs and interview commentary, plus the commentary of 1-3 people who have reviewed the application pre-interview. Each adcom member makes a recommendation (admit/waitlist/decline). The team then meets to discuss. Their recommendation goes to a smaller group that receives reports from all the teams and makes final decisions.

The small group can either endorse the team's recommendation in a wholesale way (accept the accepts, decline the declines, etc) or discuss each application and override the team's recommentations after a tiny bit or a whole lot of discussion. As you can imagine, the superstars and the disasters need little discussion but the messy middle is time consuming.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy! Why do some people with low stats receive interviews, then get rejected based off their low stats... why interview them in the first place? I recently interviewed with a much lower mcat than the school average and am wondering if during the committee meeting, they may see it and reject me just based off of it. Thank you!

I hope there wasn't a computer glitch that sent you an II by accident. It has happened. 😳 Sometimes an adcom will feel relatively confident that you can handle medical school despite being "below average" in one metric or another and excited about the life experiences that you bring to the table that could add to the diversity of the class. And, if you have strong ties to the school (parent is a faculty member, family member is a trustee and/or generous donoror etc) then you might get a courtesy interview that on rare occassions results in an interview that is so impressive that the applicant gets an offer of admission.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM, Thanks for doing this!

1) In your experience, how important is applying early in the cycle and how much does it truly hurt one's chances if apply late? I truly think this is one of the reasons that I have been so unsuccessful this cycle. I have a 34Q (13/9/12) for PS/V/BS and a 3.77/3.82. I submitted my AMCAS end of june with a 31Q, but retook MCAT in August and got a 34Q, which means most of my files were not complete until mid/late september. I mean, a 3.77 cGPA/3.82 sGPA and a 34Q are all pretty decent stats, but I've had only 1 II and 13 rejections this cycle. I also believe I have fairly decent research experiences and volunteer experiences. So I can't help but put a lot of blame on the lateness of my application.

Some people would blame the 9 in verbal. I wouldn't rule out a poor mix of schools or a lukewarm LOR.

I know I probably applied to fairly top-heavy schools with all within top 50 USNEWs ranking and only two outside of top 50. The one II I got was from outside of top 50.

Bad mix... I have to learn to read the whole passage before starting to answer. 😳

2) If I do end up being a reapplicant, how much do ADCOMS expect reapplicants to improve their application? If I am reapplying next cycle, then I really don't have much time to drastically improve between this cycle and the next. All I can really do is applying very early. Does this mean I should think about applying during the 2014 cycle so I have time to really boost up my ECs so i'll have a "drastic improvement''? Or does "drastically improving" an application not as important as most say and I should go ahead and reapply during the 2013 cycle?

Thanks so much!

Are you telling me you will have done nothing between June 2012 and June 2013??? If so, wait until 2014. I do hope you have been doing something besides hitting refresh on your computer. If you have been working, taking classes and holding your gpa steady or improving over your previous years, and doing volunteering and/or employment and/or research then your application is stronger than it was in June 2012.

 

[The Beyonder]

Thanks LizzyM,

I wanted to ask more about the interview because I think you said you have a little more experience with that side of the application process.

I know being oneself is important, but what other factors are important during the interview?

What do you like to see from an interviewee?

What are the things interviewees overlook the most?

 

[LizzyM]

Dr. Lizzy,

noncon, please call me LizzyM.

you said you like to see at least 30-32-34 credits a year. At Harvard Extension's ALB, they make you "pay your dues" for a Harvard degree by greatly expanding the workload and making exams insanely difficult, so you are advised to take only 8 credits a semester during the ALB. If you take more than 8, you get an email from your advisor asking you if you're crazy and another email from Harvard Extension or the ALB program office telling you this is a bad idea. All this means a person can realistically take only 16 credits a year - which itself is a killing workload at the ALB program. Of course you can take an additional 4 credits over the summer when tuition is very steep but that still takes you to only 20 credits a year.
- Does this mean adcoms will frown on such applicants?
- Is it better to boost your credits by taking additional classes at an "easier" school?

Harvard Extension ALB is for non-traditional students and I have to assume that most students are taking part-time classes because they are working as well. That's a different situation than a traditional student who is attending college "full-time".

 

[LizzyM]

In your school to get interviewed ,you need a 35+ ?

So there are schools that won't consider you unless you have a steller mcat score?

I was hoping the rest of my application/gpa makes up for my mcat

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Ever hear of schools that are called "number ******"? 😳

 

[Dick Jones]

Please let me know how things turn out in March... I have high hopes for you.

Thanks! I'll PM you when March comes.

 

[LizzyM]

Did you mean to say "lower than the 97th percentile" or did you mean "> 32"?

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/320554/data/combined12.pdf.pdf

Obviously, working too late last night.

A quick look at my notes from interviews to date shows about 1/3 of the applicants has MCATs in the 32-35 range, almost 2/3rds are 36 or higher and about 3% < 32. So most of the applicants have MCAT scores that place them at the 96th percentile or higher and we rarely interview those who are below the 90th percentile.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks LizzyM,

I wanted to ask more about the interview because I think you said you have a little more experience with that side of the application process.

I know being oneself is important, but what other factors are important during the interview?

Being relaxed and not uptight or nervous. Speaking clearly and neither too long nor too briefly. Being able to read your interviewer's cues and responding accordingly. Not having your hair in your eyes and playing peek-a-boo through your bangs. (LizzyM's pet peeve)

What do you like to see from an interviewee?

Enthusiasm for one's prior experiences, an ability to describe one's research to a neophyte, good cheer, a genuine curiosity about the school and area, compassion for the sick and vulnerable, a realistic view of medicine as a career.

What are the things interviewees overlook the most?

That you are being judged during every moment of the interview. The throw-away questions are as important as the serious ones.

 

[Cptn Loko]

Hi LizzyM,

So I did 2 years of dual-enrollment in High School and received a 3.4 GPA, then I did 3 years at a university and attained a 3.97 GPA, bringing me to a 3.74 average. Is this worth mentioning / explaining in my personal statement if I'm aiming for research-heavy schools (i.e., top 30ish)?

I was too immature during H.S., and so I'd at least like for them to get that I am way different now.

Thanks!

 

[andjusticeforal]

Hi LizzyM,

If an applicant has a great deal of clinical employment, seeing many patients, doing procedures, etc, would it be of no benefit to do some form of clinical volunteering at that point?

Also, you touched on the subject of clinical research possibly being viewed as a weak experience compared to bench research. But what if it involves doing all the patient visits, physiological testing, blood draws, medical history, collaborating with MD's, and lots of other procedures in addition to all of the crazy paperwork? I can speak intelligently about the studies I work on, but they are major multi-institutional studies that don't allow me to have input. Is that bad?

Thanks

 

[starx3]

Hi LizzyM,

Thank you for your time, I really appreciate it.

I'm a sociology major and a biology minor for now. I only need 5 more BIO classes to do a biology major (along with my SOC major). I will apply to some top-tier schools. Does double-majoring help at all? How much?

My sGPA is pretty low right now. Should I focus on bringing my sGPA up instead of double-majoring?

How many WORK/ACTIVITIES do the accepted students usually list? i know that quality>quantity. I have a lot (~ 9)but most of them are only 1.5 year.

I am Asian and I will graduate with magna cum laude. When I am applying to the top schools, should I even list magna cum laude as an award/honor? (What about Dean's List?) Will it hurt that it is not summa cum laude (I'm guessing that a lot of asians applying to top-tier schools have summa cum laude and i have to be in the top 40% of those applicants to have a chance...?)

Thanks a lot again! =]