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Ask LizzyM Anything 2013 edition
Started by LizzyM
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@centillion
Some schools are known for deflation and a excellent gpa from such a school is highly regarded. A gpa that is a bit below our mean but above the mean for that school might be recognized as "very good" relative to other applicants from that school.
@jetsfan1234
In my experience, the applicants that say this tend not to be my top choices even before the words are out of their mouths. Schools that are looking for the best candidates and that are less concerned about making offers that will be turned down are not going to be influenced by these declarations. They are also considered to be possible B.S. by someone who thinks that it will give them an advantage. We don't want to give BS'ers an advantage.
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@karayaa
Schools say that they are looking for diversity and I like to think that they are looking for diversity of opinion on the subject of public policy and politics. Those of us who assess applications and interview applicants are always on guard not let personal opinions about politics bias our decisions about candidates. I think that you can express an opinion while recognizing that there are differences of opinion on every issue and demonstrate your ability to express what critics of your opinion are saying and make responses to those arguments while avoiding personal attacks or name calling.
@ThisCouldBeYou
Yes, the LORs can be a tip off. The length of time (in months) spent in specific activities and multiple activities of the same kind (two or more checks of the same box) is another clue. The interview can be helpful in this regard as well.
@snowflakes 1. yes.yes.
2. What stands out, in a bad way, are letters that are not effusive or that come from people who do not know the applicant well. (If you were just face in a huge lecture hall and a name in a grade book then it is unlikely that the letter will be very informative.
What stands out for me are letters from people who have had opportunities to engage with the applicant both in and out of the classroom or lab. This includes faculty and coaches with whom you have traveled to events or whom you've chatted up at campus events and who can speak to your manners, your ability to deal with stressful situations on the road, etc.
1) What are some useful tips applicants might be able to apply that aren't talked about so often?
2) What things do you see applicants commonly "overvalue?" In other words: are there any aspects of the app you feel that applicants place undue importance on that, perhaps in the long run, really aren't all that important in arriving at a final decision and one's overall success in the app cycle?
2) What things do you see applicants commonly "overvalue?" In other words: are there any aspects of the app you feel that applicants place undue importance on that, perhaps in the long run, really aren't all that important in arriving at a final decision and one's overall success in the app cycle?
@NickNaylor
1. Is there anything here that isn't talked about often?
2. Foreign travel. I want to throw up in my mouth a little when I see the applicants who claim that they know all about cultural diversity because they've been a tourist on family vacations to ... and then list 12 different countries. It is usually a sign of high SES more than anything else. Ditto short term "medical missions" that are over -hyped in the application and annual trips to the motherland to visit relatives. Not saying you shouldn't go but just saying that it rarely is important in coming to a decision.
Do applicants really list stuff like this on their AMCAS or is this in an interview setting? 😱 Do experiences on the AMCAS applications make you go 😱 sometimes (because they aren't worthy of being there)?
So Panda Bear's comedic/fake medical school personal statement wasn't too far off from what you have seen as an adcom? I thought it was hyperbole.
(I'm referring to one with his driver "Mbuto," African babies, and serving the underprivileged in a mall medical set up in La Jolla, California.)
Edited to add: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/my-personal-statement-and-i-got-accepted.285834/
@dododo121
Yes, I see these annual family vacations (lumped) on some applications.
I laugh a bit when people list service projects of < 8 hours. One day of your life stacking cans in a food pantry is a bit thin out of 15 things you can list, don't ya' think?
Ah, and we were doing so well at ignoring them!Obnoxious, rude and utterly uncalled for by anything in the thread.
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@knv2u
Panda Bear's PS was pure invention but parodies are humorous because they contain truth that has been exaggerated until we laugh at the folly of it.
Does it look weird if a person has held off shadowing until senior year, long after he has made a commitment to becoming a doctor?
@U Wot M8
Yes, it does.
LizzyM,
This might be outside your broad range of expertise but what do you about applying for MD/MBA programs / what do you think of them. I'm thinking about pursuing something like this but should I mention it in my application? Mentioning business things might detract from the whole "I want to be a doctor" thing but I want to do both. I know that many schools allow you to apply to the MBA program separately as well, so if all else fails I would just get into med school first, then apply to the MBA part. But would it hurt or help my application to mention the business?
Thanks for all your help!
This might be outside your broad range of expertise but what do you about applying for MD/MBA programs / what do you think of them. I'm thinking about pursuing something like this but should I mention it in my application? Mentioning business things might detract from the whole "I want to be a doctor" thing but I want to do both. I know that many schools allow you to apply to the MBA program separately as well, so if all else fails I would just get into med school first, then apply to the MBA part. But would it hurt or help my application to mention the business?
Thanks for all your help!
Dear Lizzy M,
Should you and if so how do you list consistent church attendance - but no particular involvement on an AMCAS application.
Thanks
Should you and if so how do you list consistent church attendance - but no particular involvement on an AMCAS application.
Thanks
Thank you so much for the help.
My question is regarding community college classes. I understand you stated that they are looked down upon because they are viewed as easier than at a university. My problem is I am about to graduate and just recently had a change of heart about my future. I am now pursuing an MD. However, I don't think I can afford to take a year or two at a post-bac or university. Would taking the pre-reqs at a CC be that harmful to my application if my financial situation doesn't allow to continue at the university level? Would the downside to this be so significant that I should just take on the additional debt and continue courses at a 4 year?
I am a part of an under represented minority. I'm the first in my family to go to college and I have 5 younger brothers. 2 of them are also in college. My parents are not wealthy at all and I just don't know if it would be worth it. If you could shed some light on my situation i would greatly appreciate it.
My question is regarding community college classes. I understand you stated that they are looked down upon because they are viewed as easier than at a university. My problem is I am about to graduate and just recently had a change of heart about my future. I am now pursuing an MD. However, I don't think I can afford to take a year or two at a post-bac or university. Would taking the pre-reqs at a CC be that harmful to my application if my financial situation doesn't allow to continue at the university level? Would the downside to this be so significant that I should just take on the additional debt and continue courses at a 4 year?
I am a part of an under represented minority. I'm the first in my family to go to college and I have 5 younger brothers. 2 of them are also in college. My parents are not wealthy at all and I just don't know if it would be worth it. If you could shed some light on my situation i would greatly appreciate it.
At our school, the AdCom recommends; the Dean decides. Sometimes his algorithm overrides ours.
Hey LizzyM! I've heard a lot on SDN saying that doing a double major is worthless, and not considered by Adcom. Do you believe this is true, and if so why? I worry that this attitude - at least as projected in certain threads - pushes students away from pursuing a broad and fulfilling education that may help them in subtle ways down the line (and possibly on MCAT verbal scores sooner, for example).
@Yangeranggg
Have you been involved in management or shadowed or interned in a management position in health care or Big Pharma? If yes, then you might have a case for doing the MD/MBA but otherwise, it does raise a question as to why you are choosing to attempt both...
Most MD MBA folks I know backed into administrative tasks as physicians, and felt enough interest to do executive MBA programs while working in administration.
Really??? Is that an experience that deserves one of your 15 spots that describe the experiences that have prepared you for medical school and/or that help describe you as a well rounded person. I suppose if it is a major part of your life and you attend one or more times per week, then it could be important to you and something you want to highlight as making you an attractive applicant for medical school because it has inculcated in you values that a physician should take to heart. On the other hand, some applicants will leave off activities that might cause a bigot to be biased against you or believe that you are somehow unsuitable for a career in medicine because you practice your faith (despicable attitude and one that I would not endorse but do you want to risk it?)
If you think that you should be chosen because you attend church consistently but aren't really involved aside from being in the building on a regular basis, compared to people who don't attend consistently, well, that's an interesting point of view that some people may disagree with.
@V
Ideally, you take those classes at a university. If that is impossible and your financial situation prohibits that route, then you have to take them at community college. If it is one or two classes, that's ok. if it is 8 classes, that is going to leave a mark! If medical school were 5 years and you had to borrow for all 5 years, would you do it? Even if there was a possibility that you'd flunk out after the first year and not be permitted to continue? If yes, then borrow the money and do that year of post-bac work, take a gap year for applying, and cross your fingers.
@rfenzo
A double major will not get much attention from the adcom. On the other hand, the knowledge acquired can be helpful.
@markmark
Isn't it supposed to be anonymous? How is putting that on an application consistent with AA's traditions?
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Uhh you are supposed to be "anonymous" to the general public if you are a celebrity or something or will be going on television or radio. it is not out of line with AA tradition at all to disclose that to anyone you choose. The reason I wonder is because there is a huge component of it that is service based, including speaking at detoxes, picking up sucidal people and bringing them to the hospital etc, yet I think it would be weird to put on an app because people (wrongly) view it with a stigma. It is certainly equally altruistic as volunteering at a soup kitchen or something.
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That would be long term and you'd tag that as 'volunteer, non-clinical", I think. Service to those in need is considered valuable.
Six years of sobriety would generally be enough time to put yourself into the high stress environment that is med school.
So an admissions person would generally have no idea that AA entails helping people and would think it is just sitting in a basement talking or something. How would I clarify what it entails?
Thanks for everything that you do, LizzyM!
And here's something for ya, hopefully you know who/where it came from.
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
And here's something for ya, hopefully you know who/where it came from.
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
1) In preparing for an interview, should applicants make sure that they're aware of contemporary healthcare policies and/or be expected to offer an opinion on the state of affairs of healthcare? In other words, should I be knowledgeable about things like ObamaCare and insurance policies before I head into an interview?
2) I did research for a summer (over 200 hours) but was unable to continue afterwards since I already had many volunteer commitments on campus during semesters, and I felt that I wasn't going to be able to juggle all of these activities effectively. I have no publications to my name, nor did I expect one in such limited time. The clubs I chose to continue with over research mean a lot to me and I've been involved with them for a minimum of 2 years each. Will my discontinuation of research be viewed as a red flag? Is my research experience still considered meaningful? I feel that it is, but I can see why someone might disagree.
Thank you in advance for your time.
2) I did research for a summer (over 200 hours) but was unable to continue afterwards since I already had many volunteer commitments on campus during semesters, and I felt that I wasn't going to be able to juggle all of these activities effectively. I have no publications to my name, nor did I expect one in such limited time. The clubs I chose to continue with over research mean a lot to me and I've been involved with them for a minimum of 2 years each. Will my discontinuation of research be viewed as a red flag? Is my research experience still considered meaningful? I feel that it is, but I can see why someone might disagree.
Thank you in advance for your time.
@markmark I'd suspect there might be a AA member on the adcom or someone who knows someone who is a member (I am close to a long time member, have attended an open meeting but I wouldn't expect every adcom member to have knowledge and experience similar to mine.) You have to tag each experience so volunteer, non-clinical makes sense for this one and then you write what you did in concrete terms. It isn't that we wouldn't know that AA entails helping others (and oneself) but those tags help us to quickly review applications and digest the material in it.
Have you ever accidentally asked a question to an interviewee that you aren't supposed to ask? Like race/sex/religion/disability type questions. Or how do you think you'd respond if an applicant stated that they were uncomfortable answering one of your questions? Would it mar the interview/your report to the committee?
@bkboii10
1) Yes, you should be up to date on current events, particularly those involving health policy and heath care in America.
2) No. Many people do research for one summer & don't continue during the academic year. You can tag it as meaningful and describe why it is/was meaningful to you.
@Pose
No, I have never accidentally asked an illegal question to an applicant. Have you ever mouthed off to a police officer? There are some things we just aren't going to do. It is absurd to even think that it would happen if we're sober and we try to be sober on interview days.
I would be stunned if someone told me that they were not comfortable answering a question I have. I ask very relevant questions as well as some chit chat about sports teams, campus events and so forth.
Sport teams eh? Who's your pick to win the Superbowl? Do you even follow football? 😀
And in an effort to ask a medical school related question as well as try to make sense of my current application cycle let me ask you this question. So I've been having some success with my state schools which is outstanding given that its Cali, any particular reason why I might be having better luck this time around with my state schools over some of the other schools known to interview lots of Cali applicants? I did do a postbac and retake the MCAT, but I didn't expect this to be happening. I'm definitely grateful for it, I just want to try to make some sense of it.
And in an effort to ask a medical school related question as well as try to make sense of my current application cycle let me ask you this question. So I've been having some success with my state schools which is outstanding given that its Cali, any particular reason why I might be having better luck this time around with my state schools over some of the other schools known to interview lots of Cali applicants? I did do a postbac and retake the MCAT, but I didn't expect this to be happening. I'm definitely grateful for it, I just want to try to make some sense of it.
@SilentSoldier
Am I rooting for the underdogs if I tell you that I love Tom Brady? Pats win the regular season so often but just can't seem to go all the way in the playoffs.
I mostly have questions about baseball rivalries and college football. College b-ball and/or hockey might come up depending on the season. This is mostly to loosen up the applicant and help them to relax.
Seems obvious that OOS schools are not wasting an interview invite on you as it seems clear to them that you have what it takes to get an offer in Calif and that you won't be likely to matriculate elsewhere if that is the case. I don't make those ii decisions but I could see those who do not choosing to spend their ii's on a huge number of people who would not choose to come "here" given a more attractive alternative.
Tom Brady an underdog? Lol
As for the OOS thing, while it might be true that I have a preference for Cali given the usual reasons (close to family, friends, COA) I would assume that it would be true for any applicant from a state with lots of state schools ( NY, FL, TX, OH) I don't know if I made it super obvious in my app or secondaries that I'd prefer to stay in Cali, but I'm actually open to any of the schools on my list, otherwise I wouldn't apply to them. What I mean to say is, how does one really discern if a person doesn't plan on attending their school if offered?
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@SilentSoldier
The state schools in Calif are very good (on average, I think, better than the state schools in FL, NY, OH -- the Republic of Texas is a different beast) and as you say, the COA is a big factor. Weather, too. Pitt might expect that it can lure someone away from Indiana but not from UCSF and not just because of the distances involved. The snow of Dartmouth over the smog of UCLA? really?
I've always been a firm believer on asking the most attractive (stat & EC-wise) candidates and hoping that some choose us. I think that one strategy can be to not issue those ii's until late in the season with the idea that those who have offers that they find more attractive than an offer from my school would be will decline the interview invite and I won't have wasted it on someone who wouldn't come here.
No, you are most certainly not rooting for an underdog if that dog is Tom Brady. Tom Brady is beast.
Is it considered an advantage for the applicants if both his/her parents did their residencies at your university?
When you're interviewing an applicant who falls below the 10% mark gpa wise, do you treat the interview differently than a normal applicant? Do you spend more time discussing grades?
Oh and do you have any experience with applicants from the University of Toronto? What is your view of the school? Is it considered an upper tier school? (My gpa is above the average there but still painfully low for American standards, I'm an American citizen so not considered international)
When you're interviewing an applicant who falls below the 10% mark gpa wise, do you treat the interview differently than a normal applicant? Do you spend more time discussing grades?
Oh and do you have any experience with applicants from the University of Toronto? What is your view of the school? Is it considered an upper tier school? (My gpa is above the average there but still painfully low for American standards, I'm an American citizen so not considered international)
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@Dr Turkelton
No, there is no advantage for someone whose parents did their residencies here.
No, I don't treat an applicant with low GPA differently and I don't ever discuss grades.
I am familiar with U Toronto. In my opinion, it is the best university in Canada.
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