Ask LizzyM Anything 2013 edition

[ThisCouldBeYou]

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One last one: As a sophomore, I worked in a research lab over the summer. The program was only available during the summer and by the fall, my PI had decided to take a job elsewhere. She and I are still in touch, but she never wrote a LoR. By the time I apply next year, my experience as a researcher with her will be two years. Will it matter if the time between our working together and her letter is two years?

 

[nemo123]

@dododo121
My error, I should have said, "adcom members" not "interviewers". But each interview report is taken on its own and keeping in mind the general disposition of the interviewer; some are really happy with almost everyone and others are perpetually cranky and rarely impressed with any applicant. If the always happy doc didn't like a candidate then we know we have a really serious problem, regardless of the other interview.

Going off of this, what happens if a somewhat cranky interviewer gives a good report and a nice happy one gives a bad one?

 

[LizzyM]

I've heard that med schools can see where all of their applicants end up sometime in the summer, so my question is, do those interviewees with terrible interviews still end up at a med school?

Also, when directors of admissions refer to the "admissions committee" that meets post-interview, are our interviewers also part of that committee or are they separate from that (like will they rank us or at some schools, will they just present the interviewee)?

@smarts1 Yes, they can see where applicants ended up but the adcom members don't get this information. It stays with the dean of admissions.

Admissions committees may be separate from the interviewers or may include some or all of the interviewers. It is one of those things that varies by school and that can vary over time at a school.

 

[LizzyM]

Made it in before the deadline! These are my last questions for this year.

1) For schools without a committee to write a letter, do you have any advice on how applicants can still highlight these qualities? Would a professor who knows you extensively be inappropriate to discuss these traits?

2) Earlier in this thread, you said that it is weird if a person doesn't list their ethnicity, especially if they have a really obvious name. I'm curious about whether it ever hurt an applicant to not list their ethnicity (especially if they are White or Asian)? Will adcoms know anyways (pre-interview)?

3) Is there any distinction between doing your extracurricular activities during the school year (when you are also balancing that with schoolwork) as opposed to doing it during a gap year? (example: if both applicants had equal amount of hours for the EC's they did, but one did them during the school year while the other did them during a gap year)

4) You have said that you are an adcom at a high tiered research orientated medical school. I assume that you are looking for future "leaders in medicine". When I hear this phrase, I immediately think of Physicians who will also be doing cutting edge research in biomedical/clinical fields. When an applicant is interviewed at your school expresses interest in Primary Care, does that hurt them? (given that they still have a lot of research experience to gain an interview slot at your school in the first place)


Thank you for all your help this year and Happy New Years!

@Aerus
1) A professor who knows you well and who has had long private discussions with you might be able to write a letter like this.
2) I don't think I said it was "weird" but more like they aren't fooling anyone. That said, we don't discriminate but I realize that some people think that we do discriminate against white & Asian applicants.
3) A person who managed a 3.85 while doing a bunch of ECs might be stronger than a 3.85 who did nothing during the school year (nothing but studying).
4) We have leaders in family medicine, general pediatrics and so forth, too. There is important public policy work to be done and advocacy work for teens, the mentally ill and other vulnerable populations. Not everyone who is a leader in medicine has to be a subspecialist. Haven't some of our Surgeons General been primary care providers?

 

[LizzyM]

Thank you so much for doing this, LizzyM!

How closely do you scrutinize the undergrad transcripts of postbac students who have been out of college for several years (assuming the GPA is up to standard)?

@Ipsca
about as much as we do traditional applicants. It varies by school, I suppose, and may vary by reviewer with some taking more time or placing more emphasis on courses. Overall, according to AMCAS, it doesn't matter much how one does on individual courses.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy,
Thanks again for doing this. Quick question: what would prompt a committee to put an applicant on a pre-interview hold instead of outright rejecting them? In your experience (I'm assuming it varies for every school), how many people eventually get an interview off this list?

@krefetz1
Depending on the other applicants who show up later in the season, you might be someone who would be interviewed after all. At my most cynical, I also suspect that the school doesn't want to make a permanent decision until the season is over ... sometimes there are "political" reasons why someone needs to be interviewed and that can't be done if they've already been rejected.

I just recommend applicants for interviewing, I don't know whether they get interviewed promptly or at all or why the person responsible for issuing ii's does it this way.

 

[LizzyM]

Going off of this, what happens if a somewhat cranky interviewer gives a good report and a nice happy one gives a bad one?

@nemo123
Oh, those are interesting discussions! When someone who usually likes everyone doesn't like someone, we take it very, very seriously. However, maybe there was just a mismatch whereas another interviewer who usually has criticisms about xyz found that this applicant had the attributes usually sought by this interviewer.

 

[karayaa]

Made it in before the deadline! These are my last questions for this year.

1) For schools without a committee to write a letter, do you have any advice on how applicants can still highlight these qualities? Would a professor who knows you extensively be inappropriate to discuss these traits?

@Aerus , what traits are you thinking of? my school doesn't have committee letters, so I want to know what i'm missing. Something like this, as @LizzyM mentioned previously?

"5. Even comparing one applicant to others from the same institution, a good committee letter will "sell" an applicant by highlighting all their best attributes, bringing out some information that the applicant might not highlight (e.g. did not take any courses pass/fail to protect the GPA) and placing them in the best possible light."

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM,

You do a great job making it clear when answering questions that your opinions are those of just a single adcom member at one medical school. However, it's tempting to generalize your advice to apply to all medical schools because you are among the very few "official", eminently trustworthy sources of information about the admissions process to be found.

• Do you worry that some insight or advice you give on these forums might be harmfully inaccurate with regards to other medical schools?

• Do you like (or dislike) certain types of candidates in a way that the other adcom members disagree with?

• Could you speculate on how much a grain of salt we should take your advice, since it may or may not apply to most US med schools?

On SDN, the word of LizzyM is gospel. I'm glad you do what you do, but I'm worried that there are rarely other persons in positions similar to yours who can come in and dispute or corroborate what you say.

I generally stay away from "What are my chances" because I have a spectrum bias when it comes to admission stats.
I don't dislike or like certain types of candidates --- "like" doesn't really play a part; much of what we do is far more objective. I have recommended interviews for applicants who I disagree with on politics etc...
I strongly recommend looking at this aamc publication https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf to get a more global viewpoint.

 

[GoPelicans]

Hi LizzyM, no more questions here but THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for all that you do for the neurotic premeds of SDN! HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

[LizzyM]

This is my second question, sorry.
I'm really curious - what goes down in a room when an adcom is making the final decision? In other words, which documents are being reviewed, what's discussed, who are applicants compared to (if anyone), how does the voting work, etc.

Have a Happy New Year!

@bkboii10
We have reports of the application reviewers and interviewers and we have a synopsis of the application. We know how the adcom members have scored the application after the interview. We can pull up the application itself if we feel the need. Some people are terrific and require no discussion. Some are horrific and require no discussion. The messy middle requires some hashing out... we discuss everything... we might compare to someone who just got an offer (we just admitted Tim and Tom is pretty much the same)... we might compare to a student who has been successful or unsuccessful at our school as a reassurance or a warning that this student may or may not be a good choice for us. Usually someone recommends a course of action and we all concur. If we don't that's when things get interesting. We also have to keep in mind that we only have so many offer letters in a given year and when we get to a certain point we have to be conservative in making offers and put good people on the waitlist. We tend to put people on the waitlist all year long and not only those who are interviewed at the end of the season.

 

[LizzyM]

One last one: As a sophomore, I worked in a research lab over the summer. The program was only available during the summer and by the fall, my PI had decided to take a job elsewhere. She and I are still in touch, but she never wrote a LoR. By the time I apply next year, my experience as a researcher with her will be two years. Will it matter if the time between our working together and her letter is two years?

@ThisCouldBeYou
No, it doesn't.

 

[LizzyM]

Thank you to everyone who participated with questions or just reading along. It's been fun. Wishing you all the best in 2014.