Ask me (almost) anything

[GeauxTime]

I've gotten a B and C+ in my first two chemistry classes, is it worth it to retake Chem II or just move on to organic chemistry? I made a B+ in bio, A in pre-calc and A+ in Calculus as well as straight A's in both chem labs and bio lab, my sGPA is around a 3.4 and I'm a sophomore, thanks!

She'll probably refer you to WAMC.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[jdudemed]

How can I find a particular LizziM score for a specific school?

I have submitted most of my secondaries in December? Will this greatly hurt me?

For a particular school, I just turned in my supplemental application. The fee and the LORs have been received since late october. This school has a 60 day period to submit all of the required materials. the deadline for completing the file was 12/25. I submitted the secondary essays by the due date, but my status still said INCOMPLETE. My application was rejected the day after the due date. What should I do? Everything was submitted by the due date and I don't think they should have rejected it.

 

[LizzyM]

1. How much consideration is given to extenuating circumstances, that result in damage to what would've been an otherwise decent gpa (3.6+ down to 3.2, probably would've been a 3.7+)? I had an un-diagnosed condition at the time, but everything was documented and can be linked to my current condition.

Yikes! How badly to you have to do, or for how long, to pull a 3.6+ down to a cumulative 3.2? (Or have I misunderstood and did you have a 3.2 year or semester in an otherwise 3.6 academic career?)

With a gpa that was in the crapper for a semester, a year, or longer, one has to wonder if the student has managed to master the material that was covered in the classes taken during that period.

2. Could a health condition be grounds for rejection although its regulated by medication(going on 1 yr)?

If a health condition precludes you from meeting a school's technical requirements, then you would not be eligible for admission. You are under no obligation to disclose a health condition that does not preclude you from meeting the school's technical requirements. That said, if you want to use a health condition to explain poor academic performance, you will have opened the door that can lead to further questions including questions about the likelihood that an exacerbation of your condition could cause you to do poorly in med school.

 

[LizzyM]

How can I find a particular LizziM score for a specific school?

1) learn how to spell my name: L i z z y M

2) Go to the school's web site and look around for the average MCAT and average gpa for the current M1 class.

3) average gpa (10) + average MCAT. plus or minus 1 depending on whether you want to be optimistic or not (shooting for school where you are above the average or slightly below).

I have submitted most of my secondaries in December?

Will this greatly hurt me?

YES

For a particular school, I just turned in my supplemental application. The fee and the LORs have been received since late october. This school has a 60 day period to submit all of the required materials. the deadline for completing the file was 12/25. I submitted the secondary essays by the due date, but my status still said INCOMPLETE. My application was rejected the day after the due date. What should I do? Everything was submitted by the due date and I don't think they should have rejected it.

You don't think you should have been rejected?? Join the club... there are 20,000+ who don't think that they should be rejected but they are. Get a clue, apply early next time.

jeesh!

 

[haloschief]

Hi LizzyM,

I asked my PI to write me a LOR and he said that I should draft one for him. I've never written a LOR before, do you have any tips on how I should approach this? What key points do you look for when you review a LOR?

 

[typicalindian]

Do you guys google your applicants? How about checking facebooks or youtube accounts etc? If so, has that ever caused an applicant to lose an interview or acceptance spot? (*also if you get a chance I'd <3 you more than I already do if you could respond to my PM from a few days ago) Thanks for doing this by the way!

edit: 1 more question. Lets say I work with someone who is part of an admissions committee and they write me a letter of rec. Can this person still voice their opinion about my application to the other adcom members or do they have to dismiss themselves completely? If they can voice their opinion about your application, will it be a big help or not really a help at all?

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

A J curve is completely normal, like the slight dip in body weight seen in newborns in the first week after birth. As with newborns, the real concern comes when it doesn't reverse course and go back up and continue to climb with time.

I have a J curve as well, but this was because I transferred to a much more difficult university after attending a not-so-difficult one (as opposed to doing poorly in organic). GPA went 3.7->(transferred) 3.1->3.3, and this year should be around 3.5. In the event that I have to reapply, I am wondering if this upward trend is too sluggish to warrant forgiveness without doing an SMP or something similar. I was also wondering how much, in general, rigor of school is taken into account. My MCAT is >30 if that's relevant .

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM,

I asked my PI to write me a LOR and he said that I should draft one for him. I've never written a LOR before, do you have any tips on how I should approach this? What key points do you look for when you review a LOR?

Here's a re-run from last August:




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These letters follow a formula:

First sentence states that one is pleased to write a letter of recommendation for [individual's name]. Obviously, it is important to have your name at the top of the body of the letter. The rest of the paragraph describes how long the writer has known you, the circumstances under which you first met, and whatever interactions you've had. (e.g. that he was your professor and later you served as a teaching assistant or lab assistant). If you've had continued contact after your regular meetings ended, that gets mentioned too (some people stay in touch for years with an advisor or mentor).

The next paragraph describes the activities in which you engaged as observed by the writer. Some writers will go on & on about what they cover in a course or the type of research they do in the lab. Some writers will cover how the applicant did grade-wise with quizes, tests, assignments or how much the applicant participated in class discussion or the topic and quality of a big written assignment or class presentation.

[Optional: a paragraph describing other activities that the writer knows of - because you told him - but that he didn't observe himself. It might open by saying that the applicant has been active on or off campus, etc, etc., or has been driven in preparing for admission to med school (that's not too flattering if taken the wrong way) or something along those lines).]

The next paragraph covers a subjective assessment of the applicant's personal characteristics.

The final paragraph is a closing stating that the writer supports the applicant's application to medical school and usually says something nice about wishing that they were going into graduate school but they are well suited for medicine or that the writer would be happy to have the applicant as a doctor some day. Most end with something saying if you wish to speak to me you may call 000 000 0000.

 

[NickNaylor]

Do you guys google your applicants? How about checking facebooks or youtube accounts etc? If so, has that ever caused an applicant to lose an interview or acceptance spot? (*also if you get a chance I'd <3 you more than I already do if you could respond to my PM from a few days ago) Thanks for doing this by the way!

edit: 1 more question. Lets say I work with someone who is part of an admissions committee and they write me a letter of rec. Can this person still voice their opinion about my application to the other adcom members or do they have to dismiss themselves completely? If they can voice their opinion about your application, will it be a big help or not really a help at all?

People in the office at my school follow posters in the Pritzker thread and try and guess who they are. I'm not sure if much happens beyond that.

 

[LizzyM]

Do you guys google your applicants? How about checking facebooks or youtube accounts etc? If so, has that ever caused an applicant to lose an interview or acceptance spot?

I rarely do. Some med students on the adcom have been known to do this and to bring it up at the meeting. It can hurt someone's likelihood of being admitted. What you've heard "grown-ups" say about posting pictures of yourself sloppy drunk on the internet is true!

edit: 1 more question. Lets say I work with someone who is part of an admissions committee and they write me a letter of rec. Can this person still voice their opinion about my application to the other adcom members or do they have to dismiss themselves completely? If they can voice their opinion about your application, will it be a big help or not really a help at all?

The person can voice an opinion but can't vote. It will help to the same extent that your letter helped. Somewhat or quite a bit or not much

 

[OldBat]

The thought is that you should have done things after HS graduation and not rested on your laurels. So, you should build on the experiences you did in HS. The idea is that you did things as a kid and now you are an adult and you bring more maturity and insight into the experiences and thus they are processed in your mind differently even if the physical activities are the same.

There is no rule against listing activities from HS but it is hoped that you have so many solid experiences from after HS that there isn't room for that "old news". It can also be interpreted as "padding" an otherwise thin application and you don't want that!

I could see your point if it just involved doing it a few hours a week but this was 800 hours of volunteer time over three summers.

 

[LizzyM]

I have a J curve as well, but this was because I transferred to a much more difficult university after attending a not-so-difficult one (as opposed to doing poorly in organic). GPA went 3.7->(transferred) 3.1->3.3, and this year should be around 3.5. In the event that I have to reapply, I am wondering if this upward trend is too sluggish to warrant forgiveness without doing an SMP or something similar. I was also wondering how much, in general, rigor of school is taken into account. My MCAT is >30 if that's relevant .

Yes, rigor is taken into account. Beyond that, we're getting into "what are my chances" and I don't go there.

 

[sunflower18]

I have a clarifying question about the whole pre-med committee situation. I go to a small, private, LAC that is decently ranked but not top tier. We have no pre-med committee. What you mentioned earlier, then, about how the advisors won't know the students well enough, won't apply at all.

Does it still hurt applicants to not have a pre-med committee? I'm actually on staff at the university and I plan pre-health programs and events; I've met with the advisors and they really don't want to create a committee or be a part of one due to it going against the goals of the school, being too restricting, etc.

Are students at my school thus at a clear disadvantage as compared to other schools of the same or higher caliber, just because of the lack of pre-med committee? If so, should I try and talk to the advisors about this to see if we should reconsider introducing one to my university's system?

Thanks!

 

[sliceofbread136]

I wanted to do a medical mission trip (work in a clinic), mainly because I want to travel (never been out of US) and would like to experience another culture.

I've seen your posts in the past where you discouraged these types of trips. Would you recommend I not do it even if I think I would really enjoy it? I already have clinical exposure and work with the poor.

 

[muhali3]

^I think LizzyM has said that it isn't as impressive as applicants think it is, especially if it is only a one or two week trip. There's not much you can do for a community in one or two weeks, and the money used for the trip probably would have been more beneficial if it was donated directly. It still doesn't look bad though, and if you think you'd enjoy it, then go for it.

 

[TriagePreMed]

If a person is a URM, what would be a reasonable way to account for this on the LizzyM score? +3? +5? etc.

 

[LizzyM]

I have a clarifying question about the whole pre-med committee situation. I go to a small, private, LAC that is decently ranked but not top tier. We have no pre-med committee. What you mentioned earlier, then, about how the advisors won't know the students well enough, won't apply at all.

Does it still hurt applicants to not have a pre-med committee? I'm actually on staff at the university and I plan pre-health programs and events; I've met with the advisors and they really don't want to create a committee or be a part of one due to it going against the goals of the school, being too restricting, etc.

Are students at my school thus at a clear disadvantage as compared to other schools of the same or higher caliber, just because of the lack of pre-med committee? If so, should I try and talk to the advisors about this to see if we should reconsider introducing one to my university's system?

Thanks!

I don't have any LORs from LACs to look at right now but I seem to recall that many professors do write very detailed LORs and include many of the things that other schools include in the comittee letter based on detailed conversations with the student (professors at LACs have the luxury of time with students unlike some of the big universities). The schools that have the committee letters I most depend on tend to be big, private research universities (the Ivies, Hopkins, Duke, Emory, Notre Dame, Stamford) with some public schools as notable exceptions (UCLA, Ohio State, Michigan, Virginia). There may be others but those are the ones I remember at the moment.

You might ask your premed committee to look into what other comparable schools are doing and what the "best practices" are among pre-med advisors.

 

[LizzyM]

I wanted to do a medical mission trip (work in a clinic), mainly because I want to travel (never been out of US) and would like to experience another culture.

I've seen your posts in the past where you discouraged these types of trips. Would you recommend I not do it even if I think I would really enjoy it? I already have clinical exposure and work with the poor.

Travel, experience another culture. This is good. Why spend your vacation time stuck inside a clinic? What skills do you have to provide to the sick and injured there, anyway?

Wander through the markets, what is for sale? what do local people buy? what do they eat? do they buy a marked price or do they haggle? Depending on where you go, the "markets" might include art galleries (of art for sale) and/or handicraft markets. What does this tell you about the culture?

Sit in cafes and watch the people passing by. What do they wear? Can you tell their station in life according to their clothing? How does their clothing adapt to their environment? Are there influences from other cultures in their clothing choices? How do they greet one another? What is the age range you see? How do parents and children interact? How do couples interact? If you don't speak the language, hire a bilingual local to give you a tour. Visit a house of worship of whatever religion predominates in that place. How does their religion impact on culture? How does culture impact on religious practice?

Eat in a restaurant that is popular with local people. Be a locovore, if just for a day, eating the foods that are produced and prepared locally (keeping safety in mind, no need to bring home an unwanted souvenier). For something different, visit a McDonalds or other multinational chain, if one is available. How is it different from "back home"? Who is eating there? What do they eat?

Travel from one place to another using the transportation used by the locals whether a bus, train or ferry. This is another good opportunity to people-watch and to soak up the local culture.

Attend an athletic event of a popular sport in that locale. Attend a live performance of music or dance whether it is a band concert in the town square or in a hall.

I could go on & on.

There is so much to do in a new place without spending it doing a "clinical mission" you are ill-equiped to do. Getting to know a place from a local's point of view, you will be better equiped to be of service there after you have acquired some skills. IMHO the best "medical missions" are done by fellows and attendings who train local providers and provide in-service education.

 

[maybemed2013]

1. Does it look bad on my app if I take one class by itself during a fall semester; my explanation would be that I only needed that one science class to graduate.

2. Do you really need to have a few rigorous semester to prove that you can handle med school?

3. Does it lot bad that I take the really hard science classes over the summer?

 

[LizzyM]

If a person is a URM, what would be a reasonable way to account for this on the LizzyM score? +3? +5? etc.

You are asking me to step on the third rail of the SDN pre-allo forum.

There is no one way to account for URM status in the LizzyM score anymore than we could figure out how to adjust it for other "experiences".

URM, IMO, is an experience. If the sum total of your experience has been to have an understanding that your DNA can be traced back to this place or that, then it isn't much of an experience. If the people of your community are URM, if you have lived in that community, celebrated with them, mourned with them, worshipped with them, have a native's grasp of their language, customs and culture, then you have an experience that is valuable to you, to the patients you will one day serve, and to your fellow students and faculty who may learn from what you can tell them about your experiences.

 

[LizzyM]

1. Does it look bad on my app if I take one class by itself during a fall semester; my explanation would be that I only needed that one science class to graduate.

Would this be because you are graduating late or graduating early? Whatelse would you do with your time during that semester?

2. Do you really need to have a few rigorous semester to prove that you can handle med school?

How else would you prove it?

3. Does it lot bad that I take the really hard science classes over the summer?

No, but you must take them at the school you attend during the academic year or an equally ranked school and not a school that is less prestigious. Also, if you are doing this to make things easier, be advised that more rigorous semesters do say something about your ability to handle the work. Also, summer courses tend to be more fast paced and full of pre-meds! Some people have been unpleasantly surprised by the quality of instruction in the summer, too. Be sure to check ratemyprofessor before you plow into a summer section.

 

[maybemed2013]

So I guess I should take a rigorous course load that semester instead of graduating late because I want to take one class by itself.

And yes I take all my classes at the same university during fall spring and summer semesters.

 

[fizzgig]

..Wander through the markets, what is for sale? what do local people buy? what do they eat? do they buy a marked price or do they haggle? Depending on where you go, the "markets" might include art galleries (of art for sale) and/or handicraft markets. What does this tell you about the culture?

Sit in cafes and watch the people passing by. What do they wear? Can you tell their station in life according to their clothing? How does their clothing adapt to their environment? Are there influences from other cultures in their clothing choices? How do they greet one another? What is the age range you see? How do parents and children interact? How do couples interact? If you don't speak the language, hire a bilingual local to give you a tour. Visit a house of worship of whatever religion predominates in that place. How does their religion impact on culture? How does culture impact on religious practice?

Eat in a restaurant that is popular with local people. Be a locovore, if just for a day, eating the foods that are produced and prepared locally (keeping safety in mind, no need to bring home an unwanted souvenier). For something different, visit a McDonalds or other multinational chain, if one is available. How is it different from "back home"? Who is eating there? What do they eat?

Travel from one place to another using the transportation used by the locals whether a bus, train or ferry. This is another good opportunity to people-watch and to soak up the local culture.

Attend an athletic event of a popular sport in that locale. Attend a live performance of music or dance whether it is a band concert in the town square or in a hall....

I just love this post a lot. This is what traveling abroad gives you that you just can't get from a book, no matter what your purpose for traveling is! Not always easy to describe later, but SO amazing to kind of expand your sort of... bounding boxes or something...

This thread is very informative. Thanks all for the questions, thanks Lizzy and others who contribute for the insight

 

[Xiao]

To what extend do schools work to protect their acceptance rates? i.e. Reject or wait-list otherwise qualified candidates because they think the candidate might not go there?

The reason I ask: I've been very happy to receive 15+ interviews invites and 1 acceptance so far this application cycle. The strange thing is, almost all of my invites are from top 30 or in-state (CA) schools, and I've heard back from only a couple "mid-tier" medical schools. This makes no sense to me.

Also, several schools are putting me "on hold" or "waitlist" like Pittsburgh and Mayo. I felt like I really rocked those interviews, and I know that my app looks good on paper. The only significant weakness I can think of is perhaps I didn't come across as enthusiastic enough (I tried to keep it real during my interviews ahaha ) or have any personal ties to those areas.

I know it probably sounds like I'm rationalizing my non-acceptances, but it would be good to hear a committee member's take on this.

 

[Xiao]

A follow up question: if schools do work to protect acceptance rates, how much do you think that varies between "top tier" (Harvard, Hopkins, etc.) and "mid tier" schools?

By tier I'm going with U.S. News research rankings. It doesn't mean everything, but it means something.

 

[LizzyM]

To what extend do schools work to protect their acceptance rates? i.e. Reject or wait-list otherwise qualified candidates because they think the candidate might not go there?

I don't know how much this happens because my point of view is from just one school. I do feel that it happens sometimes when we get the feeling that the applicant is likely to be happy to go elsewhere and we'd like to extend our offers of admission to people who would be happy to have them.

On the other hand, some schools/deans feel that the only way to get a few stellar students is to make offers to many stellar candidates and the yield be damned. (yield: proportion of offers accepted)

A follow up question: if schools do work to protect acceptance rates, how much do you think that varies between "top tier" (Harvard, Hopkins, etc.) and "mid tier" schools?

By tier I'm going with U.S. News research rankings. It doesn't mean everything, but it means something.

I don't know too much about that. Here's one scenario: The top tiers may all be chasing the top applicants such that if you have 100 fabulous applicant all of whom apply to the top 5 school and all of whom are interviewed and accepted to those top 5 then 4 of the 5 schools are going to have their offers declined by each student. So, if it works out evenly, every school has 20 students out of the 100 and a yield of 20%. That's a pretty low yield. They might improve on that by waitlisting everyone else and pulling 80-sure things from the waitlist (people who have expressed a strong interest) so that they fill a class of 100 by issuing just 180 offers. Now the yield is closer to 55%. The thing is: the sure things may be a weaker pool because some of the stronger applicants, dismayed by being waitlisted at schools 1 through 5 were happy to accept an offer from school #6 or 10 or 12, made a second look visit, fell in love, took that offer and dropped the rest.

Here's another scenario: a school makes a educated guess of which applicants are likely to matriculate based on essays, interview responses, geographic proximity, ties to the undergrad school, legacy, etc. They make offers to only 30 of their top 100 but 25 accept those offers. They likewise make offers to 180 other applicants who seem very interested. Of those 75 accept the offer of admission. So that school has made 210 offers to fill 100 seats, so the yield is not as good but they got 25 top students compared to a school that snagged only 20 of its top 100.

Another school might say, let's make offers to the best 300 regardless of whether they'll come and hope that 100 say "yes". The problem can be a lot of anxiety if it seems like too many will come as May 15 approaches and the pain of going deep into the waitlist if the 300 yield less than 100 matriculants.

 

[Xiao]

Thanks for sharing the scenarios. Very interesting.

Would you say then that for an applicant to maximize his/her chances of avoiding the waitlist, he should express exuberant ethusiasm during the interview? In your experience as an interviewer, how often do you question the sincerity of an applicant because they were so over-the-top ethusiastic? (Honestly, I think a lot of applicants are "faking it", but I'm cynical.)

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for sharing the scenarios. Very interesting.

Would you say then that for an applicant to maximize his/her chances of avoiding the waitlist, he should express exuberant ethusiasm during the interview? In your experience as an interviewer, how often do you question the sincerity of an applicant because they were so over-the-top ethusiastic? (Honestly, I think a lot of applicants are "faking it", but I'm cynical.)

Always be sincere and honest but not insulting in your honesty.

Sometimes an applicant comes across as insincere and I'm willing to describe the behavior when I write my assessment. I've see others write these assessments, too.

If you get an offer from a school that is higher in your personal ranking than the school that waitlisted you, why worry? If you are waitlisted at schools you like more than the school where you hold an offer, be thankful for your offer (thousands didn't get one this year) and send a letter of interest to the schools where you'd like to stay on the waitlist. Remove yourself from any waitlist that you wouldn't choose over the offer you've accepted.

This is not a game to collect as many offers as you can with no intention of considering the seriously.

 

[Xiao]

Always be sincere and honest but not insulting in your honesty.

Sometimes an applicant comes across as insincere and I'm willing to describe the behavior when I write my assessment. I've see others write these assessments, too.

If you get an offer from a school that is higher in your personal ranking than the school that waitlisted you, why worry? If you are waitlisted at schools you like more than the school where you hold an offer, be thankful for your offer (thousands didn't get one this year) and send a letter of interest to the schools where you'd like to stay on the waitlist. Remove yourself from any waitlist that you wouldn't choose over the offer you've accepted.

This is not a game to collect as many offers as you can with no intention of considering the seriously.

I agree. My concern is that some applicants, by nature of their personality and approach to interviewing, come off as less "bubbly," regardless of how interested they actually are in a school. When ranking against other applicants who have exhibited higher (and perhaps over-the-top) levels of enthusiasm, the interviewer may perceive the more "bubbly" applicants as having a higher level of interest.

Not trying to game the system. The reason I ask is that I have some more interviews in January, I want to present my interest as best as I can. If that means I have to be more bubbly in my approach, then so be it.

 

[sunflower18]

Thanks so much for your help!!

I have another quick question on the medical mission discussion. I am planning to study abroad for about half the summer because I can't seem to fit study abroad in during the academic year. This program is through my university. I would be in a Spanish-speaking country, taking Spanish language intensives, and volunteering. The volunteering is a requirement, and I am very happy to participate in it. You have options as to where you would want to volunteer, and I was planning on selecting one of the medical options (hospital, children's hospital, hospice, etc.). Should I not do this, even though this is a university organized, somewhat long-term, study abroad experience? I could otherwise ask to volunteer at a school, soup kitchen, orphanage, etc. I just thought that getting a sense of hospitals in foreign countries and picking up medical Spanish would be more useful, for one, and I am sure they could use volunteers for another.

Thanks!

 

[Kzoo Kid]

love it. all of it. eagerly awaiting LizzyM's ten thousandth post!

 

[Nymphicus]

love it. all of it. eagerly awaiting LizzyM's ten thousandth post!

 

[Narmerguy]

love it. all of it. eagerly awaiting LizzyM's ten thousandth post!

Will she then become 10K+ Member?

 

[maybemed2013]

I have a 2 yr break in between undergrad and hopefully med school ( I am graduating this summer and have not yet taken the MCAT )should I go get my masters in biomedical engineering which would take 1.5 yrs or should I work?

I have a 3.7 Gpa and plan on keep it.
I do lack EC through, about 100 hrs volunteering in a nursing home
and 60 hrs shadowing variety of doctors.

 

[Tots]

I am a 4th year applying this June and I am curious how important my year off activities are. At the moment I am inclined to stay close to home because of finances, ease of travel(if I get interviews ), and a commitment I have to a local clinic I volunteer with. I was planning on just getting a part time job that I would enjoy while continuing some of my extracurriculars but multiple people have suggested that I look for a research job in fields I am interested in.

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love a job like this but it seems impractical since most I've seen require a 2 year commitment and who knows how much time off I would need for interviews. Also I would most likely have to move elsewhere assuming I could even find a job and get hired.

Are most schools going to put a lot of weight into what I do during my year off? I assume it will come up during interviews frequently, is this an accurate assumption? Will top schools care a lot?

 

[polyploidy516]

Dear LizzyM,

Thank you once again for all of your responses; another question that I have is in regards to science courses taken at other universities. Specifically, as I have recently graduated from a prestigious school, due to the fact that I am disadvantaged and am severely limited in my financial resources as a result, I was planning on taking several science courses at a CUNY (either CUNY Hunter or Cuny Brooklyn due to the fact that they have the most reputed pre-med programs from hearsay) as these are the only schools that I can truly pay for given my finances; schools that are equivalent or higher to my school's prestige cost around $1000 a credit (a couple of ivys and prestigious private schools) and I unfortunately live very far from my state school campus; CUNY is, thus, the closest to me.

My question is will adcoms at top tiers hold it against me for taking these courses at a less prestigious school, especially, since the only reason I am doing this is for financial reasons (i am applying as a disadvantaged student & received a lot of aid for undergrad: pell grant, etc to cover my undergraduate expenses to somewhat substantiate my financial situation). I want to take these courses as my gpa is on the lower end (3.4) and I want to raise it/prove to adcoms that I can excel in medically-relavant sciences (neural science, microbiology, etc/truly want to optimize my chances at a top tier school.

Furthermore, I would really like to know whether top tier schools tend to give more financial aid to students of low-income backgrounds than a state med school?

Thank you once again for everything.

respectfully,
Polyploidy516

 

[EnergyDrink]

LizzyM,
What factors are more important for non-traditional students compared to traditional students with a few years out of undergraduate? Do you expect to see LORs from undergraduate professor(s) if the student has been away from that institution for a couple years?

Thanks again!

 

[NinersFan0]

If I have been accepted at a school (let's pretend it's your school), and now realize that I can graduate a quarter early (March instead of June), would the adcom care if I finish my work early and take the spring quarter off for work/research/travel etc?

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks so much for your help!!

I have another quick question on the medical mission discussion. I am planning to study abroad for about half the summer because I can't seem to fit study abroad in during the academic year. This program is through my university. I would be in a Spanish-speaking country, taking Spanish language intensives, and volunteering. The volunteering is a requirement, and I am very happy to participate in it. You have options as to where you would want to volunteer, and I was planning on selecting one of the medical options (hospital, children's hospital, hospice, etc.). Should I not do this, even though this is a university organized, somewhat long-term, study abroad experience? I could otherwise ask to volunteer at a school, soup kitchen, orphanage, etc. I just thought that getting a sense of hospitals in foreign countries and picking up medical Spanish would be more useful, for one, and I am sure they could use volunteers for another.

Thanks!

It is completely reasonable to volunteer for 4 weeks or more in an established facility in the country in which you are living for an extended period.

 

[LizzyM]

love it. all of it. eagerly awaiting LizzyM's ten thousandth post!

 

[LizzyM]

I have a 2 yr break in between undergrad and hopefully med school ( I am graduating this summer and have not yet taken the MCAT )should I go get my masters in biomedical engineering which would take 1.5 yrs or should I work?

I have a 3.7 Gpa and plan on keep it.
I do lack EC through, about 100 hrs volunteering in a nursing home
and 60 hrs shadowing variety of doctors.

whether you work or go to school, you will have (or should find time for) ECs. If a MS in biomedical engineering interests you and you can get into a program without accumulating too much debt, go for it. If you can get a job that pays at least enough to cover your living expenses and start saving for the application/interview season, do that, instead.

Either choice is fine. It is your life and your decision.

 

[lxz]

Say I'm double majoring, but have completed all my graduation requirements for one major last year already. Is it okay that I drop my second major at this point, even though I listed it on AMCAS application?

 

[LizzyM]

Are most schools going to put a lot of weight into what I do during my year off? I assume it will come up during interviews frequently, is this an accurate assumption? Will top schools care a lot?

Schools are going to care what you do in your year off but lab research isn't the only option. You will be asked what you are doing and the top schools will care a lot.

Take a job that interests you and/or pays the bills. Try to make time (2 hrs wk) to do something for others in your community. Read trashy novels, enjoy trashy movies or do whatever fun stuff you enjoy doing because once med school starts you won't have so much time for that.

 

[hospitalist1day]

Lizzy, may I PM my question to you? The details of my question are very specific and therefore possibly identifying. I am a older non-traditional student. Your answer will confirm whether my interest is a pipe dream or is possibly workable. Thanks!

 

[LizzyM]

Dear LizzyM,

Thank you once again for all of your responses; another question that I have is in regards to science courses taken at other universities. Specifically, as I have recently graduated from a prestigious school, due to the fact that I am disadvantaged and am severely limited in my financial resources as a result, I was planning on taking several science courses at a CUNY (either CUNY Hunter or Cuny Brooklyn due to the fact that they have the most reputed pre-med programs from hearsay) as these are the only schools that I can truly pay for given my finances; schools that are equivalent or higher to my school's prestige cost around $1000 a credit (a couple of ivys and prestigious private schools) and I unfortunately live very far from my state school campus; CUNY is, thus, the closest to me.

My question is will adcoms at top tiers hold it against me for taking these courses at a less prestigious school, especially, since the only reason I am doing this is for financial reasons (i am applying as a disadvantaged student & received a lot of aid for undergrad: pell grant, etc to cover my undergraduate expenses to somewhat substantiate my financial situation). I want to take these courses as my gpa is on the lower end (3.4) and I want to raise it/prove to adcoms that I can excel in medically-relavant sciences (neural science, microbiology, etc/truly want to optimize my chances at a top tier school.

Furthermore, I would really like to know whether top tier schools tend to give more financial aid to students of low-income backgrounds than a state med school?

Thank you once again for everything.

respectfully,
Polyploidy516

You earned a 3.4 at your upper tier school. If you earn a 3.5 or higher at CUNY, adcoms will assume you did better because the students at CUNY, on average, are not as talented as those at your undergrad institution. If you do as well or worse than you did in undergrad, well then your gpa is 3.4 or less, which is not so hot. Frankly, without getting into a "what are my chances" discussion, I think that your chances at a top tier school (top 10-20) are slim. Better to prepare the heck out of the MCAT and apply to schols in your LizzyM range.

Another option might be to get a job in a lab at a private university in NYC that offers a tuition discount for employees who take night school classes as students at large. I'm not sure if there are any schools that would fit that bill but it would help with your expeneses.

With regard to financial aid, I have no responsibility for financial aid and I've never seen the types of financial aid pacakages that are offered to admitted students.

 

[LizzyM]

Say I'm double majoring, but have completed all my graduation requirements for one major last year already. Is it okay that I drop my second major at this point, even though I listed it on AMCAS application?

Drop it. No one cares.

If I have been accepted at a school (let's pretend it's your school), and now realize that I can graduate a quarter early (March instead of June), would the adcom care if I finish my work early and take the spring quarter off for work/research/travel etc?

Do it. No one cares.

 

[ur2l8]

Hi LizzyM, I like reading your posts.

Anyways, I build/paint miniature WWII models (about the size of a quarter) for the game Flames of War. I'm not employed by them or anything, but I have sold some of figures on ebay or FOW "meetings"

like this:

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/all_images/Battlegroups/WPB/FJ/WPB_Infantry1_3.jpg

Should I bother mentioning this in an interview? I was thinking that if I did, perhaps I could brings some models to the interview. Is that wise?

Also, I have a health talk show at my local radio station with 2 of my good friends. I consider the experience pretty unique, do you think adcoms will feel the same?

 

[polyploidy516]

You earned a 3.4 at your upper tier school. If you earn a 3.5 or higher at CUNY, adcoms will assume you did better because the students at CUNY, on average, are not as talented as those at your undergrad institution. If you do as well or worse than you did in undergrad, well then your gpa is 3.4 or less, which is not so hot. Frankly, without getting into a "what are my chances" discussion, I think that your chances at a top tier school (top 10-20) are slim. Better to prepare the heck out of the MCAT and apply to schols in your LizzyM range.

Another option might be to get a job in a lab at a private university in NYC that offers a tuition discount for employees who take night school classes as students at large. I'm not sure if there are any schools that would fit that bill but it would help with your expeneses.

With regard to financial aid, I have no responsibility for financial aid and I've never seen the types of financial aid pacakages that are offered to admitted students.

Thank you for your response. I really appreciate your clarifications. Another question that i have is in regards to the Lizzym score. Although my gpa is lower (3.4), i performed very well on my mcat (40R) giving me a lizzym score of 74. As I noticed that there are several schools with a Lizzym score in the 72-76 range, would a student with such a disparity between their mcat and gpa (lower gpa due to disadvantaged status/extenuating circumstances) still have a reasonable shot at a top tier if they have good reasoning/proof for their lower gpa and have a very strong upward trend (3.85+ over 1.5 yrs) or should the student focus more on mid/lower tier schools given this disparity?

Additionally, if a student who went to a competitive undergrad decides to have a dual-enrollment in different schools of various prestige in a do-it-yourself postbac (one being an ivy/competitive school and another being a public (state/city school) in a given semester due to financial reasons/a course being closed at one school but open at another, etc, do adcoms generally frown upon this and prefer the student to take all their classes in a given semester at a given school?

Your clarfication would be appreciated. Thank you once again.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM,
What factors are more important for non-traditional students compared to traditional students with a few years out of undergraduate? Do you expect to see LORs from undergraduate professor(s) if the student has been away from that institution for a couple years?

Thanks again!

While it is not unusual to have letters from undergraduate faculty, it is not unreasonable for an applicant to have letters from employers, post-bac facutly, masters degree faculty, and others who have interacted with the applicant since college graduation.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM, I like reading your posts.

Anyways, I build/paint miniature WWII models (about the size of a quarter) for the game Flames of War. I'm not employed by them or anything, but I have sold some of figures on ebay or FOW "meetings"

like this:

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/all_images/Battlegroups/WPB/FJ/WPB_Infantry1_3.jpg

Should I bother mentioning this in an interview? I was thinking that if I did, perhaps I could brings some models to the interview. Is that wise?

Also, I have a health talk show at my local radio station with 2 of my good friends. I consider the experience pretty unique, do you think adcoms will feel the same?

Painting miniatures is pretty cool. If you had one in your pocket, you could show it if an interviewer expresses an interest.

Having a health talk show is very interesting too. I hope you add it to your "experience section" or bring it up if asked if you have an update to your file.