Ask the Program Coordinator!

[Frederica]

Greetings!
First, this thread is approved by an administrator for the forums.

I am a program coordinator at a major medical center and have been lurking here for a while. I have noticed many questions about the program side of ERAS, interview questions, process questions, and what to wear to an interview. Since I have been a coordinator for over five years, and I love what I do, I have started this thread to answer any questions you may have about the whole interview process or anything else.

I will not respond to questions about institutions or specific programs (i.e. MGH IM residency).

So, fire away, let me know how I can help you.

Freddie

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[rd31]

Greetings!
First, this thread is approved by an administrator for the forums.

I am a program coordinator at a major medical center and have been lurking here for a while. I have noticed many questions about the program side of ERAS, interview questions, process questions, and what to wear to an interview. Since I have been a coordinator for over five years, and I love what I do, I have started this thread to answer any questions you may have about the whole interview process or anything else.

I will not respond to questions about institutions or specific programs (i.e. MGH IM residency).

So, fire away, let me know how I can help you.

Freddie

Thanks so much for doing this! My question is, how much does the interview(s) itself affect the actual rank position of an applicant?

 

[Frederica]

Thanks so much for doing this! My question is, how much does the interview(s) itself affect the actual rank position of an applicant?

You are welcome, I am happy to help.

To answer your question, A LOT. I have seen candidates who look great on paper, but either do not interview well or their personality does not fit with us. I have also worked with candidates who seem like jerks prior to the interview, but when we meet them they are really nice and I like them. However, the PC does not have any influence in terms of going to bat for the candidate, but if you are a jerk to the PC, the PD will hear about.

Good luck with interviews!

Freddie

 

[BlueRug]

What's the bottom line with thank you letters? Email vs snailmail? I'm doing them because that's how I was raised (and there were some people I really clicked with), but do they really influence anything with regards to ranking?

 

[Frederica]

What's the bottom line with thank you letters? Email vs snailmail? I'm doing them because that's how I was raised (and there were some people I really clicked with), but do they really influence anything with regards to ranking?

Hi BlueRug,
I don't think thank you notes affect your ranking. But, that does not mean you should not email those you interviewed with, especially those you liked. Email vs. snailmail is a toss up, I don't think a thank you note via email will hurt you in any way.

However, I forward thank you notes I received have received to the PD.

My answer may seem really diplomatic,but I hope it helped.

Good luck with interviews.

Freddie

 

[choc_mint]

Hello Frederica!

Thanks a lot for starting this thread! We do have a lot of questions regarding the interview process. What do you think about emails asking for update on application status and expressing interest? Does it help to get an IV? Should I address it to the PD or PC? Does it help to get our applications noticed?

Thank you!

 

[Frederica]

Hi choc_mint,

You are welcome! I have a sudden craving for chocolate. 😀

I have read a lot of posts here regarding that question and have found various answers. Some people have landed interviews because they emailed the coordinator, although who knows if that applicant was already on the list of applicants to be interviewed. But, I think it is worth a shot.

If you are going to include the PD in an email regarding your status, I would direct the email to the PD and copy the PC, not the other way around. Have you emailed the programs directly or through ERAS? If you have emailed them directly, I hesitate to encourage you to email them again. Check to see if there is a thread in the specialty forum you are interested in to find out what dates the programs you are interested in are hosting interviews. If you happen to be in the area around the same time, you can email the PC to let them know, that may help you get an interview. And, if you haven't heard from a coordinator within three weeks (give them some time to deal with emails and situations that are high priority on their plate) email them again.

I'll share an anecdote of a recent encounter I had. While I was on a mini-vacation I received an email from someone who was inquiring about a fellowship I do not manage, nor am even remotely in the same specialty. I should have emailed them back and directed them to the proper department, but I did not - was playing catch up and dealing with higher priority issues. The person forwarded my out of office email to me practically demanding an answer, to which I responded as I noted above. Granted, this situation is not quite what you are going through, but the point is, when you send a follow-up email, be gracious. Had this been an actual candidate, that email would have set a negative tone to the start of our program/applicant relationship.

Hope this helps. Good luck with interviews.

Freddie

 

[docontherocks32]

Hi Frederica,

Firstly, thank you for starting this thread. Application time can probably turn the best of us slightly neurotic, and having some one who knows about what he or she is talking about is always reassuring.

I also hope that you can help me solve a situation I am in. I have an interview with a University Program on the 9th of Dec. Today, I received an invite from a community program for only the 8th of Dec. Now, I think I have only 3 options, a) Not accept the new interview. b)Miss the pre-interview dinner at the University program on the 8th evening. c) Request the University ( which had given me a host of dates at the beginning of the application cycle) to change my interview date.

Does asking the university if they can change the date as it conflicts with somewhere else cast a bad impression there (make me look less interested)? And does missing the pre interview dinner hurt in any way? The University has had a good experience with my medical school in the past and I think I have a decent chance there. So do not want to mess with it in any way. Also, being an IMG, I am apprehensive about refusing an interview invite just like that, since I never know which program would actually rank me where?

I would appreciate it very much if you could give me your opinion about this "situation" of mine. (One more neurotic on the thread.)

 

[Frederica]

Hi Frederica,

Firstly, thank you for starting this thread. Application time can probably turn the best of us slightly neurotic, and having some one who knows about what he or she is talking about is always reassuring.

I also hope that you can help me solve a situation I am in. I have an interview with a University Program on the 9th of Dec. Today, I received an invite from a community program for only the 8th of Dec. Now, I think I have only 3 options, a) Not accept the new interview. b)Miss the pre-interview dinner at the University program on the 8th evening. c) Request the University ( which had given me a host of dates at the beginning of the application cycle) to change my interview date.

Does asking the university if they can change the date as it conflicts with somewhere else cast a bad impression there (make me look less interested)? And does missing the pre interview dinner hurt in any way? The University has had a good experience with my medical school in the past and I think I have a decent chance there. So do not want to mess with it in any way. Also, being an IMG, I am apprehensive about refusing an interview invite just like that, since I never know which program would actually rank me where?

I would appreciate it very much if you could give me your opinion about this "situation" of mine. (One more neurotic on the thread.)

Hi docontherocks,
My applicants are always asking to change dates, and I try to accommodate them as I am able. In fact, I received a request a few minutes ago, which unfortunately I am going to have to turn down because all our other slots are taken. We had a situation last year in which an applicant asked to come to the second day of our interviews because he had a conflict, he also missed the dinner, and we did rank him. His missing those big events, did not hurt his chances with us.

Did the first program offer several dates? If so, go ahead and ask them if you can change your date. If they did not, don't ask for another date. We set aside interview dates several months in advance to ensure our faculty are available for interviews and really can't add another interview date.

I am sure it would be okay if you missed the dinner. We all understand that you need to interview at other institutions.

I hope my answers helped. Good luck with interviews!

Cheers,
Freddie

 

[docontherocks32]

Hi docontherocks,
My applicants are always asking to change dates, and I try to accommodate them as I am able. In fact, I received a request a few minutes ago, which unfortunately I am going to have to turn down because all our other slots are taken. We had a situation last year in which an applicant asked to come to the second day of our interviews because he had a conflict, he also missed the dinner, and we did rank him. His missing those big events, did not hurt his chances with us.

Did the first program offer several dates? If so, go ahead and ask them if you can change your date. If they did not, don't ask for another date. We set aside interview dates several months in advance to ensure our faculty are available for interviews and really can't add another interview date.

I am sure it would be okay if you missed the dinner. We all understand that you need to interview at other institutions.

I hope my answers helped. Good luck with interviews!

Cheers,
Freddie

Thank you for your kind reply.

The program had indeed offered me more dates, including two more dates later in December. I will ask them if I can be accommodated on one of these later dates. If not, then I'll skip the dinner or decline at the community program, in that order.

Again, thank you.

 

[NYDO2014]

Hi Frederica:

Thank you for starting the thread. I am wondering what percentage of interview have been given out at this point? Are less desirable applicant usually given an interview at a later time?

how much role does geographic proximity and familiarity with the previous med school graduate affect the selection process.

 

[dakap2540]

Hi Frederica,

Thank you very much for doing this, it is a big help to all us nervous applicants!

I am couples matching with my wife, both of us into pediatrics. There are several programs which my wife has been offered an interview and I am still waiting to hear back. I am considering e-mailing a few of these programs, but was wondering about a few issues:

a) Do I e-mail the PC or PD? or both? Is a phone call to the PC preferable?
b) Do I mention that my wife has been offered an interview at the institution? What is a good way to bring this up in the e-mail?

Again any help is appreciated! Thank you!

Cheers!

 

[Frederica]

Hi Frederica:

Thank you for starting the thread. I am wondering what percentage of interview have been given out at this point? Are less desirable applicant usually given an interview at a later time?

how much role does geographic proximity and familiarity with the previous med school graduate affect the selection process.

Hi NYDO2014,
That is a tough question. I would say at this point 90% of programs have sent out invitations. But, that depends on the size of the program, how quickly they look at applications. All our applications were reviewed in October and invitations were sent out. That is probably because our PD likes to be on top of things from Day 1. He reviews every single application, which is over 900. Some programs aren't in such a hurry, though I would imagine they would have started the process.

In terms of geography and familiarity, I can state that has no affect on who we choose to interview. All our medical students who apply to our program are invited, we do give a little more weight towards applicants who received their bachelor's degree from our institution.

Something else that might help is if an attending at your institution emails the PD or another attending they know at the institution you are seeking an interview from. Last year, we interviewed an applicant who reached out to one of our residents as they went to college together. Use whatever connection you have to get an interview.

I hope this helped. Good luck with interviews.

Cheers,
Freddie

 

[Frederica]

Hi Frederica,

Thank you very much for doing this, it is a big help to all us nervous applicants!

I am couples matching with my wife, both of us into pediatrics. There are several programs which my wife has been offered an interview and I am still waiting to hear back. I am considering e-mailing a few of these programs, but was wondering about a few issues:

a) Do I e-mail the PC or PD? or both? Is a phone call to the PC preferable?
b) Do I mention that my wife has been offered an interview at the institution? What is a good way to bring this up in the e-mail?

Again any help is appreciated! Thank you!

Cheers!

Hi Dakap2540,
I am happy to help you all through this trying time.

With regards to question b, yes, yes, YES. We don't always know if an applicant's spouse has received an invitation. So, yes, let the program know your wife has been invited and ask for an interview. Last year, after the last interview I found out the fiancé of one of our candidates did not receive an invitation from our institution in his specialty. I told her tell all the third years at her school that if that happens to them, either the applicant who has been invited should let the PD or PC know and they will contact the other program, or the applicant who is not invited should let the program they applied to know that their significant other is interviewing.

You can email the PD or the PC. If you email them both, the email should go to the PD with the PC copied. Some PC's are okay receiving phone calls, just know that the PC may not be in a position to answer your question about an interview.

I hope this helped. Good luck to you and your wife with interviews!

Cheers,
Freddie

 

[Danette]

Hello! Thanks for starting this thread! One of my concerns so far is about the waitlist. I know it is completely dependent on programs/specialties, but generally, how likely is it that applicants on a waitlist actually end up getting interviewed, how can applicants improve their chances of getting off the waitlist, and how last-minute are applicants notified of an opening? Thanks in advance!

 

[choc_mint]

Thank you @Frederica ! I really appreciate you taking the time to answer all these questions!

 

[Frederica]

Hello! Thanks for starting this thread! One of my concerns so far is about the waitlist. I know it is completely dependent on programs/specialties, but generally, how likely is it that applicants on a waitlist actually end up getting interviewed, how can applicants improve their chances of getting off the waitlist, and how last-minute are applicants notified of an opening? Thanks in advance!

Hi Danette,
There isn't a general way to answer your questions, I'm sorry. It is likely that programs with interview dates later in the season will have openings as applicants will have gotten tired of interviewing and feel they have a good handle on their prospects. It's hard to say when you will get a call for an interview. I would imagine a program may call you the day before, but that is hard to say.

I think one way to improve your chances is to become a favorite of the coordinator; we do have favorites, after all we are human. 🙂 Send the PC a sugary, but not over the top, email, make it personal. Perhaps something like:

Dear (PC's name),
I hope your doing well. I can imagine how stressful things are for you between interviews, the holidays, and whatever else you have on your plate, and I don't mean to be a pain. I was wondering if any spots for an interview have opened up. If they do, I hope you will remember me.
​

Or

Dear (PC's name),
I hope you enjoyed the holidays. I don't know about you but if I see one more piece of turkey (or one more piece of pumpkin pie) I might explode.​

If you haven't already emailed the PC share with them why you are attracted to their program; best in country, that you like a particular thing their program offers, etc. If there is an event in the area ask them if the got to attend, "I heard the Rolling Stones were in town, did you get to see them?" or "That was an amazing win for the (college or professional mascot), I would imagine you are really excited." Things like that indicate you know what is going on in that town or at that school.

Not all PC's are outgoing, some are all business, but it doesn't hurt to try.

If you have any scholarly activities that were in press or had not been accepted when you applied to the program, but the status changes, for the positive, email the PD and PC to let them know, then update your application, or update your app then email the PD and PC.

I hope this helped. I hate that I couldn't be more positive about getting off the waiting list and into an interview slot.

Good luck with interviews. Keep me posted. That goes for everyone else, let me know how things go for your.

Cheers,
Freddie

P.S. If I get an email from an applicant at all similar to what I wrote above, I will fall out of my chair laughing. In a good way. 🤣

 

[Frederica]

Thank you @Frederica ! I really appreciate you taking the time to answer all these questions!

You're welcome. Let me know how your interviews go.

 

[toescrossed]

Hi Frederica,

Thank you so much for this thread you are a gem!

I realize it likely differs from program to program and specialty to specialty, but how many people who are interviewed typically get ranked?

Thanks 🙂

 

[Frederica]

Hi Frederica,

Thank you so much for this thread you are a gem!

I realize it likely differs from program to program and specialty to specialty, but how many people who are interviewed typically get ranked?

Thanks 🙂

Hi Toescrossed,
You are correct, this is a very difficult question to answer. The rule of thumb is to interview 10 people/position. So if a program has 1 spot and they only interview 10 people, all applicants will likely be ranked. Programs with 6 positions will interview 60 applicants, I don't know if all 60 applicants will be ranked. This really differs program to program and the needs for each program.

I would love it if @mcl, @southernIM, @gutonc , @aProgDirector, and @Winged Scapula could weigh in on this question.

Cheers,
Freddie

 

[mcl]

The rule of thumb is to interview 10 people/position...This really differs program to program and the needs for each program.

10:1 is generally our goal, although we schedule more than that to build some cushion for cancellations that come too late to fill the interview spot. To answer toescrossed's question regarding how many interviewed applicants typically get ranked, my program ranks everyone we interview unless there is a good reason not to. For example, we did not rank two applicants last year--the first because we realized he had interviewed at our institution in another specialty (the spouse of one of our residents who attended the pre-interview dinner met him at that specialty's interview dinner. He ultimately matched in that specialty elsewhere), and the second because in a couples match, her significant other cancelled his interview in the other specialty after she interviewed with us. We took that as a pretty clear indication that she wasn't interested in coming here.

Bottom line, it's safest to assume that programs who have invested the time and energy in interviewing you will rank you somewhere on their ROL. Although SOAP is better than the hell of the Scramble, not filling is absolutely no fun for anybody and we'd rather include people on our list that we aren't sure about (and hope that they were just tired and/or stressed and/or shy during their interview day) than deal with the consequence not filling. Of course, the answer could be much different in one of the very competitive specialties, but ultimately it doesn't matter. The only way an applicant would know whether or not they were ranked is if the applicant ranked the program above where they matched, but the program didn't fill.

 

[gutonc]

Hi Frederica,

Thank you so much for this thread you are a gem!

I realize it likely differs from program to program and specialty to specialty, but how many people who are interviewed typically get ranked?

Thanks 🙂

As you suspect, the # varies, but the answer is generally "the vast majority...but not all". If I had to wager a guess, I'd say it's probably on the order of 5-10%, with 10% being a very high #. My own personal experience sitting on a fellowship committee is that every year there are 2 or 3 people (of the 35-45 we interview for 3 spots) who are so completely sociopathic (and unable to keep it under wraps for just half a day) that we realize we'd rather go unfilled than have that person in our program. I would guess that larger programs (30-40 residents/class) are less concerned about this than smaller programs where you can't get away from each other and one bad apple is enough to ruin the whole program.

 

[choc_mint]

As you suspect, the # varies, but the answer is generally "the vast majority...but not all". If I had to wager a guess, I'd say it's probably on the order of 5-10%, with 10% being a very high #. My own personal experience sitting on a fellowship committee is that every year there are 2 or 3 people (of the 35-45 we interview for 3 spots) who are so completely sociopathic (and unable to keep it under wraps for just half a day) that we realize we'd rather go unfilled than have that person in our program. I would guess that larger programs (30-40 residents/class) are less concerned about this than smaller programs where you can't get away from each other and one bad apple is enough to ruin the whole program.

Hello Gutonc.. do you mind to elaborate "completely sociopathic"? Not socializing with anyone? Abrasive behavior? Thank you!

 

[gutonc]

Hello Gutonc.. do you mind to elaborate "completely sociopathic"? Not socializing with anyone? Abrasive behavior? Thank you!

Yes, yes...and so much more.

 

[choc_mint]

Yikes... I can't imagine an applicant would do so in a residency interview... I noticed some applicants were very occupied with their phones but not to that degree as being abrasive or dismissive or anything like it. Thanks for answering!

 

[Frederica]

We did not rank a candidate as they had a negative encounter at the airport announcing that they had interviewed for a position with us and if the gate agent ever needed their services they would refuse to treat them. The gate agent or someone affiliated with the airline tracked down the physician recruitment office to share what happened. The recruitment office in turn told us.

The world is very, very small and word gets around quickly when you least expect it.

 

[killerleaf]

With our program, if you are so wrapped up in your phone that you can't put it down long enough to socialize with the residents at the dinner, or during the lunch we provide, then you may not get ranked. That indicates to us that you just aren't interested in us. And if you aren't interested in us, we really aren't interested in you.

 

[JohnBender]

I think (hope) killerleaf is referring more to people who spend much of the time with their noses blatantly buried in their phone. I admittedly have occasionally quickly replied to a text, but really only during those rare moments when there is no one to talk to (e.g., you're eating in a corner of the table where the only resident is talking to another applicant about their shared undergrad) or while walking in the back of the group during the tour while no one is speaking. Wouldn't dream of touching the phone if faculty are around or if there is someone available to talk to.

This brings up a question for @Frederica : do residents report back on applicants after the night-before-interview dinners? How about after interview day lunch? Sometimes programs have even less formal nights where you meet residents at a local bar or for gatherings elsewhere, are these fair game as well? Some of these are so casual, and often applicants might only have a chance to speak to one or two of the residents.

 

[JohnBender]

Yes, Yes, and yes

May I ask how this works? I imagine it's something like, residents are given a sheet with all of the applicants' pictures and asked to write some comments about whomever they interacted with? Or maybe it's more formal...

 

[JohnBender]

It depends widely on the program.

At my program, there is a form we can fill out for any applicant we want. At the top is a box that we check to say where our interaction with them took place (i.e. interview dinner, lunch, tour, etc), then we can write in our evaluation.

Some programs it is less formal than this, some it is more.

Interesting, thanks. So I suspect it takes an applicant making a strong impression one way or the other to motivate residents to go out of their way to give feedback under similar systems as yours. That's helpful to know.

 

[Raryn]

May I ask how this works? I imagine it's something like, residents are given a sheet with all of the applicants' pictures and asked to write some comments about whomever they interacted with? Or maybe it's more formal...

My program has meetings every month where they flash the pictures of the applicants and ask if anyone had any interactions with them that they want to comment on.

 

[toescrossed]

Thank you very much for the insight Frederica and Gutonc and mcl 🙂

 

[lockjaw]

I realize it likely differs from program to program and specialty to specialty, but how many people who are interviewed typically get ranked?

Last year my program did not rank 5 applicants out of the ~130 that we interviewed: one who was absurdly obnoxious and was dropping F bombs left and right at lunch, one who was extremely socially awkward and seemed to be very far on the autism spectrum, one with an atrocious record who probably shouldn't have been invited in the first place (she was invited before the MSPE came out), and two who severely rubbed someone the wrong way (one was extremely rude to the PC and the other was condescending to his interviewer - they both had weaker records, so it was the final nail in the coffin for them).

Do residents report back on applicants after the night-before-interview dinners? How about after interview day lunch? Sometimes programs have even less formal nights where you meet residents at a local bar or for gatherings elsewhere, are these fair game as well? Some of these are so casual, and often applicants might only have a chance to speak to one or two of the residents.

At my program, the residents stay behind after lunch to discuss the applicants and one of them will type up the comments from the group to send to the PC, PD, and chiefs. We also ask anyone to submit their thoughts on applicants who they may have interacted with at other times during the interview day, but that's not required the way the lunch comments are.

 

[rokshana]

This brings up a question for @Frederica : do residents report back on applicants after the night-before-interview dinners? How about after interview day lunch? Sometimes programs have even less formal nights where you meet residents at a local bar or for gatherings elsewhere, are these fair game as well? Some of these are so casual, and often applicants might only have a chance to speak to one or two of the residents.

absolutely…your interviews starts at the dinner...

 

[killerleaf]

I think (hope) killerleaf is referring more to people who spend much of the time with their noses blatantly buried in their phone. I admittedly have occasionally quickly replied to a text, but really only during those rare moments when there is no one to talk to (e.g., you're eating in a corner of the table where the only resident is talking to another applicant about their shared undergrad) or while walking in the back of the group during the tour while no one is speaking. Wouldn't dream of touching the phone if faculty are around or if there is someone available to talk to.

This. Precisely. We have had an applicant that spent 95% of their time at the dinner, at the lunch, and time in between, BLOGGING on their phone. We verified it, because they were extremely proud of their blog, and made sure we ALL knew what it was called...

 

[dozitgetchahi]

My program has meetings every month where they flash the pictures of the applicants and ask if anyone had any interactions with them that they want to comment on.

We have absolutely nothing. I've been to interview dinners and I haven't commented (or been called to comment) on any applicants. I would imagine that the PD etc would listen if I went out of my way to tell them something about somebody, but I'm not going to put out that much effort unless someone seems like a true sociopath.

 

[JuliaJulia]

I have a couple questions about cancelling interviews:
1) email or phone call?
2) what are the most polite & respectful words to write/say?

Thanks!!

 

[Frederica]

I have a couple questions about cancelling interviews:
1) email or phone call?
2) what are the most polite & respectful words to write/say?

Thanks!!

Hi Julia,
If it were me cancelling an interview, I would send an email.

You can write: Thank you for the invitation to interview. Unfortunately, I will not be able to interview with your program (insert dates). Yada, yada, yada.

You don't have to give a reason, just a nice note. One of my mother's favorite sayings is "don't burn your bridges," you never know when your path and someone from the programs will cross in the future.

Good luck with interviews, or perhaps cancelling interviews.

Cheers,
Freddie

 

[ACoordinator]

Regarding cancellations: We really appreciate applicants who give us as much notice as possible if they need to cancel, and email is fine (you don't need to tell us why you are cancelling-- we know that you are interviewing elsewhere and that life happens). It gives us a chance to invite other candidates on our wait list. Plus, it's really frustrating to have applicants who cancel the night before an interview!

 

[DTUD]

^ I'm an applicant right now myself and just wanted to echo this, not only is it inconvenient for the program but can be as well for an applicant that really wants to go interview somewhere and has to figure out travel arrangements at the last minute because of a last minute invite that they would have gotten much sooner had their cancelling fellow applicant been considerate of this.

 

[DrSmday]

This thread is great, thank you so much for putting it together.
I'm in a tough situation and would appreciate your advice. I have 2 interviews on 2 consecutive dates. I am equally interested in both programs and had no other option but to schedule them back to back. Unfortunately I cannot find flights that fit the schedules perfectly. In order to make the dinner of my 2nd interview, I will have to ask the coordinator of my 1st interview to arrange for me to skip a part of the tour and leave early. The dinner of my second interview seems to be a bigger deal than most... both residents and faculty will be there per email (though it is optional per program coordinator), and the interview day itself is very short with no down time to be spent with residents. So my questions are...
1. How bad does it look when an interviewee (very politely) asks program coordinator if it will be possible to catch an early flight because she has no other options (which will mean leaving early on interview day). Does everyone find out that a student skipped the tour, etc or do the kind program coordinators simply help us out?
2. Is it better to just miss an unusual pre-interview dinner and hope it won't count against me and I'll catch up by being extra social on the interview day?

Thank you!

 

[Frederica]

This thread is great, thank you so much for putting it together.
I'm in a tough situation and would appreciate your advice. I have 2 interviews on 2 consecutive dates. I am equally interested in both programs and had no other option but to schedule them back to back. Unfortunately I cannot find flights that fit the schedules perfectly. In order to make the dinner of my 2nd interview, I will have to ask the coordinator of my 1st interview to arrange for me to skip a part of the tour and leave early. The dinner of my second interview seems to be a bigger deal than most... both residents and faculty will be there per email (though it is optional per program coordinator), and the interview day itself is very short with no down time to be spent with residents. So my questions are...
1. How bad does it look when an interviewee (very politely) asks program coordinator if it will be possible to catch an early flight because she has no other options (which will mean leaving early on interview day). Does everyone find out that a student skipped the tour, etc or do the kind program coordinators simply help us out?
2. Is it better to just miss an unusual pre-interview dinner and hope it won't count against me and I'll catch up by being extra social on the interview day?

Thank you!

Hi DrSmDay.


1. How bad does it look when an interviewee (very politely) asks program coordinator if it will be possible to catch an early flight because she has no other options (which will mean leaving early on interview day). Does everyone find out that a student skipped the tour, etc or do the kind program coordinators simply help us out?

I don't think this is a big deal. Ask/Tell the coordinator you need to leave early due available flight options. The PC probably will tell the PD that you missed the tour, but again, I don't think this is a big deal. I've had applicants miss the entire first day and it did not reflect negatively on them. To me the dinner is more important than the tour.

2. Is it better to just miss an unusual pre-interview dinner and hope it won't count against me and I'll catch up by being extra social on the interview day?

Being extra social will not affect your candidacy one way or the other. In fact, it might be interpreted in a way you did not intend. While programs are looking for a candidate who will fit will into the program, they are also looking for candidates who will be successful in the program. Both those qualities will come through in an interview regardless of attendance at a dinner. But, as I mentioned above, the dinner is more important than the tour of the facilities.

I hope this helped. Good luck with interviews.

Cheers,
Freddie

 

[anbuitachi]

Hi DrSmDay.


1. How bad does it look when an interviewee (very politely) asks program coordinator if it will be possible to catch an early flight because she has no other options (which will mean leaving early on interview day). Does everyone find out that a student skipped the tour, etc or do the kind program coordinators simply help us out?

I don't think this is a big deal. Ask/Tell the coordinator you need to leave early due available flight options. The PC probably will tell the PD that you missed the tour, but again, I don't think this is a big deal. I've had applicants miss the entire first day and it did not reflect negatively on them. To me the dinner is more important than the tour.

2. Is it better to just miss an unusual pre-interview dinner and hope it won't count against me and I'll catch up by being extra social on the interview day?

Being extra social will not affect your candidacy one way or the other. In fact, it might be interpreted in a way you did not intend. While programs are looking for a candidate who will fit will into the program, they are also looking for candidates who will be successful in the program. Both those qualities will come through in an interview regardless of attendance at a dinner. But, as I mentioned above, the dinner is more important than the tour of the facilities.

I hope this helped. Good luck with interviews.

Cheers,
Freddie

Thanks for making the thread. I have a few questions my self.

1) What is the general rule on the amount of advanced notice we should give for cancellations before interview? I know the more time the better but how close can we cut it usually without it reflecting negatively upon us? I'm wondering b/c I have received waitlists notices and if they do give me an interview it might result in a sudden cancellation at another school..

2) So interview begins at the pre interview dinner, but so far most of my places say that dinner is optional. Would skipping dinner HURT us?

3) When do you guys typically form your final rank list (what part of what month?) and how far down do you normally go in terms of filling all your spots come match day?

4) Assuming we are taken off the waitlist for an interview at a competitive school, are we already at a significant disadvantage? Since we were off the waitlist? I'm guessing most people who were on the waitlist, even if taken off, usually end up near the end of the rank list?

5) How much damage would not having Step 2 scores be to my application comes rank day. Will I just be left off the rank list? I heard that after getting an interview invite, step scores are not that important anymore, but what if my Step 2 CK scores never make it? What about CS (b/c January takers have scores released in March)

Thank you!

 

[pedsguy2015]

I can answer anbuitachi's 5th question. I answered it in the Pediatrics forum. Just to add more information than that below, programs need to know that you can start on time - and not having a passing Step 2 CK/CS score posted by the time ROLs are due would obviously leave things to chance, and given the increasingly competitive nature of residency applications, programs will most likely leave you off their ROLs.

5) How much damage would not having Step 2 scores be to my application comes rank day. Will I just be left off the rank list? I heard that after getting an interview invite, step scores are not that important anymore, but what if my Step 2 CK scores never make it? What about CS (b/c January takers have scores released in March)

My medical school has told us that it is imperative to get a passing Step 2 CS/CK score posted before ROLs are due. This holds true for the "not as competitive" specialities like ours where Step 1 has less of an importance (read: not dermatology, orthopaedics, etc. as average Step 1 scores for those specialties are higher so PDs don't think it is as much of a risk if a Step 2 score isn't posted by ROLs are due).

Given your case, I would contact every program at which you have interviewed or are interviewing to ask about their policies. I would also try and move that Step 2 CS date up earlier if at all possible - given it takes 2-3 months for scores to be posted, even December is extremely late and scores may not come back in time. Check the reporting schedule on the USMLE website to see if you can take it in time for scores to come back - in fact, if you time it correctly, you might be able to shorten that reporting schedule to 4 weeks if you take it at a tail end of a set reporting period.

 

[anbuitachi]

I can answer anbuitachi's 5th question. I answered it in the Pediatrics forum. Just to add more information than that below, programs need to know that you can start on time - and not having a passing Step 2 CK/CS score posted by the time ROLs are due would obviously leave things to chance, and given the increasingly competitive nature of residency applications, programs will most likely leave you off their ROLs.

Yea that's the issue with step 2 CS. At least at my school, most students take it in November and December, which means scores will be back in February.
A good # of students take it in January as well, meaning scores come back in March.. (our school requires us to take it by Jan 31... they should've just required us to do it by Dec..]

 

[Frederica]

Thanks for making the thread. I have a few questions my self.

1) What is the general rule on the amount of advanced notice we should give for cancellations before interview? I know the more time the better but how close can we cut it usually without it reflecting negatively upon us? I'm wondering b/c I have received waitlists notices and if they do give me an interview it might result in a sudden cancellation at another school..

2) So interview begins at the pre interview dinner, but so far most of my places say that dinner is optional. Would skipping dinner HURT us?

3) When do you guys typically form your final rank list (what part of what month?) and how far down do you normally go in terms of filling all your spots come match day?

4) Assuming we are taken off the waitlist for an interview at a competitive school, are we already at a significant disadvantage? Since we were off the waitlist? I'm guessing most people who were on the waitlist, even if taken off, usually end up near the end of the rank list?

5) How much damage would not having Step 2 scores be to my application comes rank day. Will I just be left off the rank list? I heard that after getting an interview invite, step scores are not that important anymore, but what if my Step 2 CK scores never make it? What about CS (b/c January takers have scores released in March)

Thank you!

Hi Anbuitachi,

1) What is the general rule on the amount of advanced notice we should give for cancellations before interview? I know the more time the better but how close can we cut it usually without it reflecting negatively upon us? I'm wondering b/c I have received waitlists notices and if they do give me an interview it might result in a sudden cancellation at another school..

There isn't a general rule, just give the program as much notice as you can that you will be unable to interview.

2) So interview begins at the pre interview dinner, but so far most of my places say that dinner is optional. Would skipping dinner HURT us?

Not all interviews begin with a dinner. Some of my programs do, some don't. If you're skipping because you haven't spent quality time with your fish because of all your travel, that might hurt you.😉 But if you have to miss the dinner because of circumstances beyond your control, i.e. flight options, then it's okay.

3) When do you guys typically form your final rank list (what part of what month?) and how far down do you normally go in terms of filling all your spots come match day?

If you're asking about my programs, we rank after interviews are done. So, if are interviews are over in January, we meet the end of January or in February, decide who to rank and where, enter our ROL and certify it. But, I am lucky and have an incredibly efficient and hands on PD. Last year, we had to wait until two days before the ROL was due for reasons beyond our control. Also, unless a candidate is a real jerk and rubbed people the wrong way, or a candidate just was not a fit for us, we rank everyone.

However, this is one of the cases where it depends on the PD, when interviews are held, and so forth. I do know a couple of programs at my institution that did not certify their ROL until the very last minute as they kept changing the order of candidates.

4) Assuming we are taken off the waitlist for an interview at a competitive school, are we already at a significant disadvantage? Since we were off the waitlist? I'm guessing most people who were on the waitlist, even if taken off, usually end up near the end of the rank list?

I cannot answer this question as none of my programs have a wait list, not even the bigger programs. Perhaps @mcl or @aProgDirector can answer this question.

5) How much damage would not having Step 2 scores be to my application comes rank day. Will I just be left off the rank list? I heard that after getting an interview invite, step scores are not that important anymore, but what if my Step 2 CK scores never make it? What about CS (b/c January takers have scores released in March)

At my institution if you have not passed step 2, you cannot start your training. I would be that is the case at other institutions too. So even if you match with a program, you still need to complete the employment requirements prior to your start date. This should be noted in an offer letter, or packet of information the program sends after match.

I hope my answers have helped. Good luck with interviews!

Cheers,
Freddie

 

[mcl]

Thanks for making the thread. I have a few questions my self.

1) What is the general rule on the amount of advanced notice we should give for cancellations before interview? I know the more time the better but how close can we cut it usually without it reflecting negatively upon us? I'm wondering b/c I have received waitlists notices and if they do give me an interview it might result in a sudden cancellation at another school..

2) So interview begins at the pre interview dinner, but so far most of my places say that dinner is optional. Would skipping dinner HURT us?

3) When do you guys typically form your final rank list (what part of what month?) and how far down do you normally go in terms of filling all your spots come match day?

4) Assuming we are taken off the waitlist for an interview at a competitive school, are we already at a significant disadvantage? Since we were off the waitlist? I'm guessing most people who were on the waitlist, even if taken off, usually end up near the end of the rank list?

5) How much damage would not having Step 2 scores be to my application comes rank day. Will I just be left off the rank list? I heard that after getting an interview invite, step scores are not that important anymore, but what if my Step 2 CK scores never make it? What about CS (b/c January takers have scores released in March)

Agree that a lot is program dependent, and I can only really answer for mine.

1. My program is located in a geographic area without a hub airport, so late cancellations are very problematic from a logistical standpoint. A cancellation with less than a week's notice requires a minor miracle for someone on the wait list to a) still be available and b) able to arrange transportation to get here. A program in a larger city probably doesn't have that issue to the extent we do. My personal pet peeve is getting a short-notice cancellation that ends in platitudes about hoping that you aren't causing too much inconvenience and/or hoping someone else can fill the spot.

2. As Freddie indicated, missing dinner (if one is offered) due to issues with travel logistics is one thing. Being available and choosing not to attend the dinner is another. The interview trail is not the time for family reunions or reconnecting with college or medical school friends that now live in the city you are visiting in lieu of attending a social event with your potential colleagues.

3. My program develops its rank list as we go, so we are pretty much ready to submit our ROL when NRMP opens.

4. For us, the wait list has more to do with availability of popular interview dates than the strength of the applicants on that list. Since the interviewers only ever see the confirmed interview list when they receive their interview day packets, they have no way of knowing whether the people they are meeting were ever on the wait list--therefore being on the wait list has no affect on ultimate ranking.

5. We expect to see Step 2 scores by the ROL deadline. I'm not going to say that we won't ever rank someone who doesn't have their Step 2 score, but there would definitely be a "risk/reward" discussion wherein even a strong applicant's rank might drop out of our "likely to fill" range.

 

[anbuitachi]

Thank you both for the answers. Just have a couple more..

1) This one is related to a previous question, but since you rank almost all applicants, how far down do your programs usually go on your rank list before you fill/match all your positions?

2) So the interview is very important, but after interviewing, and when forming the rank list, how important are the other aspects? Is step 1/class rank mainly used for screening for interview invites and after getting an interview it's not really important anymore?

 

[mcl]

Thank you both for the answers. Just have a couple more..

1) This one is related to a previous question, but since you rank almost all applicants, how far down do your programs usually go on your rank list before you fill/match all your positions?

2) So the interview is very important, but after interviewing, and when forming the rank list, how important are the other aspects? Is step 1/class rank mainly used for screening for interview invites and after getting an interview it's not really important anymore?

1) We usually fill within the top third to top half of our list. In my time as PC, we've filled within or just outside of our Ranked to Match group 3 times and didn't fill once (I still have nightmares).

2) Tie breakers. If all things seem equal in the interview, the nod for the higher rank goes to the applicant with stronger academics/Step scores.

 

[Beacopp665]

Just out of curiosity when you guys are referring to step 2 scores do you mean that you'd like to have the CK score before ROL deadline or both CK/CS?