Astro Career Center and "A Roadmap for Recruiting Medical Students into Radiation Oncology during a Period of Waning Interest"

[medgator]

One of the reasons I started posting on sdn was to highlight the obvious that salaries are set by supply and demand. Administrators can certainly pay you in 90% for 30% prodcuctivity, but at some outlying point it can become a legal issue. Medonc can get 600k+ easily for 7 k RVUs because that is the market

Dennis Hallahan told us that in 2013 in our specialty's journal as to why he expanded in the first place

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[medgator]

The hard sell continues...

Medical Students - Affiliate - American Society for Radiation Oncology (ASTRO) - American Society for Radiation Oncology (ASTRO)

Are you a medical student who want to learn more about radiation oncology? Learn more about the field, explore FAQ’s on application and interview processes and hear from radiation oncologist about what it’s like to treat and cure cancer patients.

www.astro.org

 

[FrostyHammer]

The hard sell continues...

Medical Students - Affiliate - American Society for Radiation Oncology (ASTRO) - American Society for Radiation Oncology (ASTRO)

Are you a medical student who want to learn more about radiation oncology? Learn more about the field, explore FAQ’s on application and interview processes and hear from radiation oncologist about what it’s like to treat and cure cancer patients.

www.astro.org

Ah what a far cry from the times of the past, when radonc was competitive and no one gave a rat's ass about med students. That's the academic fatcats' true nature...they're just putting up a front nowadays because they know that showing their true colors will guarantee an unfilled spot.

 

[fiji128]

From the 2021 NMRP data, there were 193 positions offered in the match and 101 of these positions were filled by US MD seniors. I'm sure ADROP would love to get that number up to something like 120. They will try anything but actually contract the number of programs (by raising training standards, the RRC proposals have been a complete joke) or reducing training spots at the existing programs.

For Rad Onc PGY-2 matches here are the percent filled by US MD seniors in recent years.

2021--------54.3%
2020--------65.1%
2019--------76.6%
2018--------91.5%
2017--------92.7%

Our "leadership" is absolutely clueless.

Residency Data & Reports

The latest Match results and data for the Main Residency Match.

www.nrmp.org

 

[GapCalc]

Here's our current ASTRO president totally missing the point.

I've color coded it for your convenience.

Red: not addressing the issue ("outreach", med students, women-and-minorities, etc.)
Blue: potentially starting to think about whether there even is an issue in the first place

Hello, everyone! When I spoke to you last October during the Annual Meeting about the workforce and related issues, I said "complacency is not an option." I'd like to take this opportunity to update you on our efforts.

Several months ago, the ASTRO Board of Directors asked leaders from ARRO, ADROP and SCAROP (representing residents, program directors and chairs, respectively) to offer insights and input for our June 2021 Board meeting with recommendations about ways to improve both the radiation oncology match and the overall attractiveness of the specialty. View these memos (ARRO, ADROP, SCAROP) with their recommendations.

Not surprisingly, there were several common themes across all three organizations, including a focus on improving information for medical students about the specialty on the ASTRO website as well as utilizing social media and other communications channels to both inform with facts and debunk misinformation. There was also interest in organizing dedicated outreach and engagement with medical students by radiation oncology departments, including expanding outreach to underrepresented minorities in medicine. All three groups expressed strong support for an arms-length ASTRO-sponsored workforce study to assess the future demand for radiation oncologists.

I am pleased to report that a number of these recommendations have already been completed, others are either in process or under active discussion, while still others may find their way into the ASTRO strategic plan going forward.

In a cooperative effort, SCAROP and ADROP are jointly developing a plan to go "upstream" to medical schools to attract medical students to the field and will work with ARRO and CHEDI to create a "best practices" toolkit to facilitate outreach to URM students.

The ASTRO homepage was reorganized with new and expanded content devoted to medical students, including general information about radiation oncology, career FAQs, interview tips and information about virtual rotations. The recently-launched Mentor Match Program continues to grow and may be used by medical students, residents and members alike as a way to build strong professional relationships. The updated website also includes new videos featuring unscripted interviews with a broad cross section of radiation oncologists discussing why they became a radiation oncologist and why a medical student should consider a career in our specialty. ASTRO will also expand its efforts to promote our free medical student membership category more effectively.

An "Introduction to Radiation Oncology" PowerPoint presentation is available to all ASTRO members on the Provider Resources section of the website and explains the specialty in plain terms and answers common student questions. A new narrated version will be available soon. To review this and other disease site specific presentations, visit and bookmark the Provider Resources section. These resources may be used "as is" or can be customized by you when you speak with medical students about the specialty.

Finally, the possibility of conducting a formal workforce study to more closely examine and to better understand the current state of the field and what that might mean for the future is on the table. The ASTRO Board will be considering next steps at the July Board meeting, recognizing the importance of expediency.

And so, my friends, I want to assure you that the Board of Directors has heard your concerns. As you can see, considerable time and effort has already been expended to creatively address many of these issues with more action to come. To those of you who have reached out to me over the past several months to give me your unabridged observations, I thank you. Please do not hesitate to contact me with your thoughts and ideas. Thank you for all that you do for ASTRO and our patients.

"The possibility of conducting a formal workforce study to more closely examine and to better understand the current state of the field and what that might mean for the future is on the table." [emphasis added]

Just incredible.

 

[TheWallnerus]

Here's our current ASTRO president totally missing the point.

I've color coded it for your convenience.

Red: not addressing the issue ("outreach", med students, women-and-minorities, etc.)
Blue: potentially starting to think about whether there even is an issue in the first place



"The possibility of conducting a formal workforce study to more closely examine and to better understand the current state of the field and what that might mean for the future is on the table." [emphasis added]

Just incredible.

I have been meaning to write a LTE to Red Journal/ASTRO re: workforce. They publish goofily conflicting numbers regarding the number of ROs in America on a consistent basis. It's like one guy saying "That car goes 100 miles per hour" and another guy saying "No that car goes potato miles per hour." The numbers are that off if you analyze Red Journal's forays into workforce papers. Anybody can say anything! Dare I say... it's like no one really cares re: workforce.

And why do a med student outreach push? Total waste of effort and time. URM outreach, fine, we need more URMs. But we've got med students as far as the eye can see. There will always be med students willing to take every RO spot America offers. If there were 500 spots each year they would fill with someone. There are plenty of med students willing to go into radiation oncology who never even heard the words "radiation" and "oncology" together in one spoken sentence in their entire lives.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I mean I have been thinking about putting together an actual business case based LTE as my prior background was as an MBA/consulting before med school. I figured their were smarter people who would have already addressed this; STUPID ME, amirite?

When I got in to med school I was making 150-250k (large range 2/2 2009 melt down) consulting; but rad onc at 700k+ looked like a great option, plus you help people.

I’m not writing this to pat myself on the back (but I’m defiantly going to leave clinical practice and go back to pharm); but the business case for poor stewardship of our field is very clear cut. In fact, typically this sort of instance is where you would bring in outside consultants to expose management to their willful blindness; not because you have questions about the real answer.

 

[fiji128]

I'll say it again, our "leadership" is absolutely clueless.

Unfortunately, the whole system is rigged so the only people with any say in these organizations are other clueless academics with giant conflicts of interest. Personally, I have almost no hope this will ever correct itself, which why applicants that have options are steering clear of the field. But go ahead spends untold hours on worthless mentorship and outreach programs so it looks like your doing something.

 

[OTN]

I'll say it again, our "leadership" is absolutely clueless.

Unfortunately, the whole system is rigged so the only people with any say in these organizations are other clueless academics with giant conflicts of interest. Personally, I have almost no hope this will ever correct itself, which why applicants that have options are steering clear of the field. But go ahead spends untold hours on worthless mentorship and outreach programs so it looks like your doing something.

They are not clueless. Expansion of residency programs was done specifically to decrease the power of each individual radiation oncologist in the marketplace, as per Dr. Dennis Hallahan*.

They're also not stupid- they know that the only way to get med students interested in the speciality again would be to dramatically decrease the resident complement. They just don't want to. However, they can see that ASTRO membership is getting riled up about this, so they have to do something. Hence the handwavey, BS mentorship and outreach.

*Aggressive recruitment of URMs into a specialty where leadership did this strikes me as particularly egregious, as oftentimes URMs do not have the generational wealth to be able to accept lower reimbursement/marketplace power, unlike those with fewer historical disadvantages.

 

[Radonky]

Little do they know, SDN forum has the biggest sway. Die hard med students will stay, but I had a MS-3 tell me rad onc job market was bad and he was not applying, that is after doing 2 summers of rad onc research at a top 10 program.

 

[SubserviantToABR]

They are not clueless. Expansion of residency programs was done specifically to decrease the power of each individual radiation oncologist in the marketplace, as per Dr. Dennis Hallahan*.

They're also not stupid- they know that the only way to get med students interested in the speciality again would be to dramatically decrease the resident complement. They just don't want to. However, they can see that ASTRO membership is getting riled up about this, so they have to do something. Hence the handwavey, BS mentorship and outreach.

*Aggressive recruitment of URMs into a specialty where leadership did this strikes me as particularly egregious, as oftentimes URMs do not have the generational wealth to be able to accept lower reimbursement/marketplace power, unlike those with fewer historical disadvantages.

This. There is nothing more egregious than to recruit women and minorities into a field where they will be exploited. People are getting the shaft more and more each day, and it is unconscionable to recruit women and minorities into rad onc where they have no room whatsoever to negotiate.

We've had women and minorities since the beginning of time, why wasn't there any interest in diversifying our field then? Oh, is it because it is socially trendy to do that now? To recruit all of these women and minorities to superficially make themselves feel good and pat themselves on the back?

Women, minorities, and everyone else, these people at ASTRO do not care about you. You are a puppet for them, a prop for their agenda. But when faced with the hard decision to fix the job market, they bury their heads in the sand. Cut the number of residency spots and advocate for our cancer patients and the radiation oncologists, day in and day out, who take care of them.

 

[RickyScott]

I

This. There is nothing more egregious than to recruit women and minorities into a field where they will be exploited. People are getting the shaft more and more each day, and it is unconscionable to recruit women and minorities into rad onc where they have no room whatsoever to negotiate.

We've had women and minorities since the beginning of time, why wasn't there any interest in diversifying our field then? Oh, is it because it is socially trendy to do that now? To recruit all of these women and minorities to superficially make themselves feel good and pat themselves on the back?

Women, minorities, and everyone else, these people at ASTRO do not care about you. You are a puppet for them, a prop for their agenda. But when faced with the hard decision to fix the job market, they bury their heads in the sand. Cut the number of residency spots and advocate for our cancer patients and the radiation oncologists, day in and day out, who take care of them.

Women and urm also tend to be less geographically flexible.

 

[deleted941485]

The whole thing is nonsense. Think about it this way. Women and URMs are used to being treated like second class citizens so why not use them as cheap pliable labor force under the guise of inclusion and diversity while the old white boomers rob this place blind and cloak themselves virtue?

 

[RadOncDoc21]

I

Women and urm also tend to be less geographically flexible.

Not everyone appreciates places where you can find some really good biryani!

 

[ROforbetterorworse]

Here's our current ASTRO president totally missing the point.

I've color coded it for your convenience.

Red: not addressing the issue ("outreach", med students, women-and-minorities, etc.)
Blue: potentially starting to think about whether there even is an issue in the first place



"The possibility of conducting a formal workforce study to more closely examine and to better understand the current state of the field and what that might mean for the future is on the table." [emphasis added]

Just incredible.

dod anyone read the links in there?

Neither SCAROP nor ARRO called for residency reduction

I don’t understand how a prospective ARRO-ASTRO senior resident Workforce registry will help fix anything?

it seems like a publication hustle by ARRO

 

[RickyScott]

dod anyone read the links in there?

Neither SCAROP nor ARRO called for residency reduction

I don’t understand how a prospective ARRO-ASTRO senior resident Workforce registry will help fix anything?

it seems like a publication hustle by ARRO

Possible that arro worried about landing their own jobs and trying to ingratiate.

 

[OTN]

Possible that arro worried about landing their own jobs and trying to ingratiate.

Seriously- toeing the party line is more critical now than ever

 

[medgator]

Here's our current ASTRO president totally missing the point.

I've color coded it for your convenience.

Red: not addressing the issue ("outreach", med students, women-and-minorities, etc.)
Blue: potentially starting to think about whether there even is an issue in the first place



"The possibility of conducting a formal workforce study to more closely examine and to better understand the current state of the field and what that might mean for the future is on the table." [emphasis added]

Just incredible.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

If varian is so worried about “diversity” maybe they should put their money where their mouth is and stop “scratching heads”, shiny or not, and bring in more diversity rather than two old indian male rad oncs. It ain’t that hard folks!

 

[Gfunk6]

Varian is hiring more and more physicians. To be sure these are all seasoned vets, not new grads and many of them keep their faculty affiliation to double dip. Maybe Varian's M1/M2 internships will translate into entry level jobs for future RO grads?

They can be like Good Will Hunting. By day they mop the floors in the Varian corporate offices. By night they invent FLASH.

 

[fiji128]

Hey Varian, it's because of the misanthropes online. Double down on your med student mentorships, if you can get approval from the bosses at Siemens, to battle the wave fake news.

 

[Radonc90]

My ENT colleague told me there are some 400-500 ENT jobs available now.
Shortage of ENTs in the country.

I am no ENT guru, just saying it...

 

[medgator]

My ENT colleague told me there are some 400-500 ENT jobs available now.
Shortage of ENTs in the country.

I am no ENT guru, just saying it...

I would do ENT or urology in a heartbeat over rad onc if i was a US medical student with good credentials today

 

[TheWallnerus]

Rad onc now with the can-DO attitude. I can dig it. Maybe 50% of all rad oncs DOs in next 10 years? Possible!?

Signed, TheWallnerus, DO.

*MOD EDIT* - Please do not post trainees names/affiliations in this thread.

The point of the picture (that has been deleted) and the resulting point of discussion is that Jefferson has 4 incoming residents, 2 of which are DOs.

 

[RSAOaky]

Rad onc now with the can-DO attitude. I can dig it. Maybe 50% of all rad oncs DOs in next 10 years? Possible!?

Signed, TheWallnerus, DO.

I agree with the underlying point you're trying to make, which is presumably that academic radonc has decided to lower its standards of entry over the last few years rather than have positions go unfilled. While that may be true on the whole, it is a bit distasteful to post pictures of incoming residents and to imply that they are "substandard." I'm sure you share my experience in having met/worked with fantastic DO's and ****ty MD's. I would encourage you to direct your ire to the top rather than sh*tting on those at the bottom of this Ponzi scheme.

 

[FrostyHammer]

Rad onc now with the can-DO attitude. I can dig it. Maybe 50% of all rad oncs DOs in next 10 years? Possible!?

Signed, TheWallnerus, DO.

*MOD EDIT* - Please do not post trainees names/affiliations in this thread.

The point of the picture (that has been deleted) and the resulting point of discussion is that Jefferson has 4 incoming residents, 2 of which are DOs.

How the H.E.L.L. does that program require FOUR medical residents

 

[deleted969641]

I agree with the underlying point you're trying to make, which is presumably that academic radonc has decided to lower its standards of entry over the last few years rather than have positions go unfilled. While that may be true on the whole, it is a bit distasteful to post pictures of incoming residents and to imply that they are "substandard." I'm sure you share my experience in having met/worked with fantastic DO's and ****ty MD's. I would encourage you to direct your ire to the top rather than sh*tting on those at the bottom of this Ponzi scheme.

DO students, with extremely few exceptions, are those who either failed to gain admission to MD schools or self-selected and did not apply to MD schools due to below average stats. This is not news to anybody who is not being intentionally ignorant.

There were 19,938 MD graduates in 2019.
How many rad onc graduates were there in 2019?

Truth hurts. Truth is, when rad onc was competitive, DOs were as rare as rocking horse sh_t in this field.

I'm not saying that DOs cannot be trained to be excellent rad oncs. But on average, they aren't as great bets. We all have anecdotes. I am reminded of the rotating MS-4 DO student who didn't know how to write a soap note and literally wrote "Physical exam: Good"

 

[RickyScott]

DO students, with extremely few exceptions, are those who either failed to gain admission to MD schools or self-selected and did not apply to MD schools due to below average stats. This is not news to anybody who is not being intentionally ignorant.

There were 19,938 MD graduates in 2019.
How many rad onc graduates were there in 2019?

Truth hurts. Truth is, when rad onc was competitive, DOs were as rare as rocking horse sh_t in this field.

I'm not saying that DOs cannot be trained to be excellent rad oncs. But on average, they aren't as great bets. We all have anecdotes. I am reminded of the rotating MS-4 DO student who didn't know how to write a soap note and literally wrote "Physical exam: Good"

would also question any MD who selects Jeff- one of the most malignant programs in this field. Would wager that they are D as F. Doesnt take much to get into Upenn or Fox chase.

 

[seper]

Between Fox Chase and UPenn graduates, all annual hiring needs on the East Coast are taken care of.

 

[RSAOaky]

DO students, with extremely few exceptions, are those who either failed to gain admission to MD schools or self-selected and did not apply to MD schools due to below average stats. This is not news to anybody who is not being intentionally ignorant.

I am not disagreeing with this. There is nothing controversial about this and it takes a good amount of naivety or denial to disagree. My point is that it is small and distasteful to single out specific individuals, especially when those individuals are at the bottom of the totem pole. I know that I'd feel pretty ****ty about myself if I were perusing a public message board and, completely unprovoked and without knowing a thing about me, someone posted my name and likeness as an example of the low quality applicants our field is attracting. Perhaps you're thicker skinned than me but I don't see this as a controversial gripe...

 

[TheWallnerus]

I agree with the underlying point you're trying to make, which is presumably that academic radonc has decided to lower its standards of entry over the last few years rather than have positions go unfilled. While that may be true on the whole, it is a bit distasteful to post pictures of incoming residents and to imply that they are "substandard." I'm sure you share my experience in having met/worked with fantastic DO's and ****ty MD's. I would encourage you to direct your ire to the top rather than sh*tting on those at the bottom of this Ponzi scheme.

Certainly my "ire" is not directed at DOs. No ire, just "ire"-ony. DOs are great. The times they are a changin'. The rad onc ivory tower just phoned from 2015 and wants to know what a "DO" even is. Academic departments are overwhelmingly, now, America's #1 hirer of rad oncs. Will academic programs hire DOs as faculty? This is one class that's 50% DOs. I don't see 50% of academic depts that are DO.

completely unprovoked and without knowing a thing about me, someone posted my name and likeness

I don't know re: completely unprovoked. I didn't post. I re-posted.

 

[RickyScott]

Certainly my "ire" is not directed at DOs. No ire, just "ire"-ony. DOs are great. The times they are a changin'. The rad onc ivory tower just phoned from 2015 and wants to know what a "DO" even is. Academic departments are overwhelmingly, now, America's #1 hirer of rad oncs. Will academic programs hire DOs as faculty? This is one class that's 50% DOs. I don't see 50% of academic depts that are DO.


I don't know re: completely unprovoked. I didn't post. I re-posted.

Going to be a lot of competition for a job amongst those 4 in what is already one of the most malignant departments.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Please do not post images from twitter of the residents who are going to Rad Onc programs, by name, in this thread, unless that resident THEMSELVES has specifically posted it to twitter. This includes PDs, Chairs, other faculty, etc, "bragging" about their incoming class. Please do not this ESPECIALLY if the point is to talk about "lowering of standards".

I learned this lesson myself with the Emory SOAP results that it's not supposed to be about victim blaming/shaming, which is what the above post also seems like.

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Please do not post images from twitter of the residents who are going to Rad Onc programs, by name, in this thread, unless that resident THEMSELVES has specifically posted it to twitter. This includes PDs, Chairs, other faculty, etc, "bragging" about their incoming class. Please do not this ESPECIALLY if the point is to talk about "lowering of standards".

I learned this lesson myself with the Emory SOAP results that it's not supposed to be about victim blaming/shaming, which is what the above post also seems like.

Lol. New residents are "victims."

 

[evilbooyaa]

How the H.E.L.L. does that program require FOUR medical residents

Faculty

www.jefferson.edu

I count exactly 16 attendings across multiple sites, including at least one community hospital. Including instructors.

11 attendings at what seems to be the mothership. Another University of Kentucky in the works.

Such low hanging fruit for residency contraction but everyone clutches their pearls and circles their wagons.

 

[DoctwoB]

DO students, with extremely few exceptions, are those who either failed to gain admission to MD schools or self-selected and did not apply to MD schools due to below average stats. This is not news to anybody who is not being intentionally ignorant.

There were 19,938 MD graduates in 2019.
How many rad onc graduates were there in 2019?

Truth hurts. Truth is, when rad onc was competitive, DOs were as rare as rocking horse sh_t in this field.

I'm not saying that DOs cannot be trained to be excellent rad oncs. But on average, they aren't as great bets. We all have anecdotes. I am reminded of the rotating MS-4 DO student who didn't know how to write a soap note and literally wrote "Physical exam: Good"

I fail to see anything wrong with the physical exam. LGFTD would also be acceptable.

 

[Lamount]

Speaking as someone who applied several times before getting into an American med school and would have gone to a foreign school on last unsuccessful attempt but for meeting the woman of my dreams right before enrolling...
I think many here have egos that are just a little too dependent on being a member of an "elite" group (and it shows)

 

[medgator]

Speaking as someone who applied several times before getting into an American med school and would have gone to a foreign school on last unsuccessful attempt but for meeting the woman of my dreams right before enrolling...
I think many here have egos that are just a little too dependent on being a member of an "elite" group (and it shows)

Plenty of egos from chairs and PDs a decade ago that wouldn't even offer some of us AOA-eligible, folks with 250+ scores and RO research/letters, priding themselves on matching MD PhDs, now they'll SOAP in anyone with a pulse.

Many of us didn't match the first time with stellar credentials a decade or two ago, so it really hits close to home now

 

[Lamount]

Plenty of egos from chairs and PDs a decade ago that wouldn't even offer some of AOA-eligible, folks with 250+scores and RO research/letters, priding themselves on matching MD PhDs, now they'll SOAP in anyone with a pulse.

Many of us didn't match the first time with stellar credentials a decade or two ago, so it really hits close to home now

You don’t have to convince me…

this was my first post on SDN from a 2012 “what are my chances” thread

I am an MSIII who is interested in rad onc.I have been a little disheartened reading the forums and was hoping for some advice.

I got 260+ on step I, will prob be AOA. I have a background/research in applicable basic science. And some non rad onc research during medical school. my institution doesn't have a rad onc residency and there isn't any research in rad onc here. I have applied to two away electives for next year (both top tier). I am going to attempt to do some rad onc research at my away electives, but i certainly can't depend on that happening. I am in a geographic region with many rad onc residency programs. It would be difficult for me to take a year off to do research because of family obligations. Is it likely I can match with these stats?

 

[RickyScott]

Speaking as someone who applied several times before getting into an American med school and would have gone to a foreign school on last unsuccessful attempt but for meeting the woman of my dreams right before enrolling...
I think many here have egos that are just a little too dependent on being a member of an "elite" group (and it shows)

Faculty

www.jefferson.edu

I count exactly 16 attendings across multiple sites, including at least one community hospital. Including instructors.

11 attendings at what seems to be the mothership. Another University of Kentucky in the works.

Such low hanging fruit for residency contraction but everyone clutches their pearls and circles their wagons.

At their main campus, I don’t think they break 100 pts on treatment. Can someone confirm? (And also chairman’s name is aprapros)

 

[deleted941485]

At their main campus, I don’t think they break 100 pts on treatment. Can someone confirm? (And also chairman’s name is aprapros)

What how many attending's for 100 patients cause dude at the rate I knock them out sometimes. Cause they could easily be overstaffed.

 

[TheWallnerus]

Speaking as someone who applied several times before getting into an American med school and would have gone to a foreign school on last unsuccessful attempt but for meeting the woman of my dreams right before enrolling...
I think many here have egos that are just a little too dependent on being a member of an "elite" group (and it shows)

I have zero ego but giggle a little at rad oncs who do. Pride goeth before the fall. It’s good to de-elite rad onc. Would like all rad onc leaders from previous decade to write “We are not God’s special snowflake” on a chalkboard 1000 times however.

 

[deleted941485]

I have zero ego but giggle a little at rad oncs who do. Pride goeth before the fall. It’s good to de-elite rad onc. Would like all rad onc leaders from previous decade to write “We are not God’s special snowflake” on a chalkboard 1000 times however.

The problem is they have nothing to back it up with anymore. They have nothing to dole out to the lemmings except unemployment and garbage projects to pad their resumes. They aren't special anymore.

 

[medgator]

You don’t have to convince me…

this was my first post on SDN from a 2012 “what are my chances” thread

I have zero ego but giggle a little at rad oncs who do. Pride goeth before the fall. It’s good to de-elite rad onc. Would like all rad onc leaders from previous decade to write “We are not God’s special snowflake” on a chalkboard 1000 times however.

The thing is, many of these chairs and PDs matched at a time not dissimilar to this one, which is what makes their smug superiority during the peak of RO a decade ago all the more ridiculous

 

[deleted941485]

The thing is, many of these chairs and PDs matched at a time not dissimilar to this one, which is what makes their smug superiority during the peak of RO a decade ago all the more ridiculous

What a head job that whole process was. I can still remember the ahole that interviewed me at UChig...surprisingly it wasn't Ralph being like "ohh the person who interviewed before you has a PhD, what are you gonna bring to the table"

 

[Lamount]

The thing is, many of these chairs and PDs matched at a time not dissimilar to this one, which is what makes their smug superiority during the peak of RO a decade ago all the more ridiculous

I don’t disagree with you about some leaders in the field. My thing is that smugness always annoys me and I don’t like the notion of “eliteness”, regardless of whether it comes from a smirking chair who blames the job market on “resident quality”, nor if it comes from a younger attending who turns their nose up at residents who are FMGs and DOs.

 

[seper]

What a head job that whole process was. I can still remember the ahole that interviewed me at UChig...surprisingly it wasn't Ralph being like "ohh the person who interviewed before you has a PhD, what are you gonna bring to the table"

sic transit gloria mundi

 

[seper]

What a head job that whole process was. I can still remember the ahole that interviewed me at UChig...surprisingly it wasn't Ralph being like "ohh the person who interviewed before you has a PhD, what are you gonna bring to the table"

And the real answer in 2022: I'm gonna bring my ability to see inpatient consults, to screen weekend calls, to respond to on-treatment eventualities, and of course do your contours and notes. Take it, or leave it.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Some anonymous facts about Jefferson that were recently PM'd to me by someone currently at the institution, posted without editorial comment:

1) As per our department staff meetings, we have had about 1500-1600 new starts per fiscal year over the past couple of years.
2) We have 11 main site attendings. Of these 11 attendings, 6 generally have more administrative/research days than clinic days (i.e. 3-4 admin/research days per week). Our chairperson does not have resident coverage and generally carries 2 or fewer patients on service. Resident coverage is exclusively 1:1; every attending is covered for the vast majority of the months (but not all) as the program includes 10-12 months of research.
3) We currently have a complement of 11 residents. There are 4 PGY-2s as we took a resident in from Cornell when it closed down. In our PGY-2 class, there are two DOs out of four. In our PGY-3 class, there is 1 DO and 1 FMG. In our PGY-4 class, there is 1 DO out of three. In our PGY-5 class and our most recent graduated class, there are only MDs, including one who graduated from Harvard Medical School and another from a top-20 medical school.
4) In efforts to fix the malignancy issues at Jefferson, our program is now on our 4th program director since 2017.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Some anonymous facts about Jefferson that were recently PM'd to me by someone currently at the institution, posted without editorial comment:

wrt 4) I think the malignancy is an attribute of the faculty and expecting the PD to change things without the support of the Chair is doomed to fail