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MD/DO ALMOST

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So, I am considering the program at ATSU MESA even though i am already accepted to a school i realy like, and that is established. I DO like the Idea of being in the clinical setting for years 2-4, and I think there are always enough resources available to learn/ practice for the licensing exams, But i am unsure as to whether or not this is the right 'risk' to take with my education. Truth be told, it sound like a great way to learn medicine, but I am a bit conflicted....The dean is the former head of the AACOM, so i feel it would be a credible program, but any input would be appreciated.
 

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I'm a student at ATSU-KCOM and the school is top notch. I would imagine that they have put a ton of time and effort into establishing a program in Arizona that will be very competitive and eventually more so then it's founding location due to being in a bigger city. That being said, it is still a new program and there will be kinks that go along with that situation. But again, you have the most established and well-regarded DO school that is backing this program. They already know what goes into funding a medical school, reaching out to a community, developing a curriculum, who to hire that will be the best executers of these goals and I'm sure there is so much more that I failed to bring up. I would bet that good things are to come and I think that this would be exciting to be a part of as an incoming medical student.
 

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thanks for the reply.... good points.... I am a little concerned with board prep, but you're right, ATSU is Huge, and I am pretty interested in the way they are going to teach us, but do you think ( as a current student) that all options will be open to me for residency ( assuming good board scores) even though i am going to be in a CHC and affiliated clinics and hspitals for my years 2-4? Will this be enough exposure when compared to students who rotated at more urban areas? Does it matter? I know that most of the specialized learning will come in residency, but do you think the combo of a new school and a new cirriculum could handicap me should i want to specialize? Or do you feel that the reputation of ATSU and the resources may prevent this?
 
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true_currency

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Since I do not know about the entire options available for years 2-4, I can't comment on exposure or the possibility of exposure to clinical scenarios that will prepare you for not only primary care, but specialization as well. I do know that here at KCOM, our rotations sites for 3-4 years are excellent and the rankings show that KCOM, PCOM and NYCOM are producing more specialty docs than any other DO programs. Again, these are some of the oldest and most established schools as well. It is possible that these rotation options available to KCOM students will be available to the Mesa program, too. Again, I couldn't say for sure because I haven't spoken with anyone regarding these opportunities. This would be a question I would be asking during interviews if I were you. It would definitely help with the decision process. As far as the new school, new curriculum, etc on helping you with your future residency pursuits, I think it depends on where you decide to pursue. If you decide to pursue with a DO residency program, then I do not think it will be a problem. If you decide to pursue with an allopathic program, then it might be an issue if it comes down to choosing someone from an MD program versus a DO program. In the end, the DO is the one screwed regardless of what school you attended unless that DO is just amazing. There is still that "prove yourself" mentality in regards to all DOs in certain states. Remember that many of these programs are now becoming dual-accredited (DO board scores will suffice instead of having to take both DO and MD boards, AOA recognizes it as your first year of residency, etc) and there are boundaries being erased that were firmly established for many years that didn't allow DO docs in. Also, on another note, look at PCOM in Georgia. They are receiving great reviews and I think it is mainly because they are linked to PCOM in Philly. Good reputation tends to carry and I think this will be recognized when you go to apply for residencies and they see ATSU on the application. It doesn't matter whether it was Mesa or Kirksville, they know the firmly established ATSU name and it is recognized for producing excellent DOs. Of course, fantastic board scores, good clinical LORs and good grades (unfortunately, you're going to need these grades if you want a competitive residency in a field like derm, plastics, ENT, etc) will be what most of the residency directors will be looking at when reviewing candidates. Again, I'm just a first year and this is my take on it so far. You might want to speak with a second year to see how they feel on it since they know more about the rotations process and residency options at this point. I have a biochem final to study for so I'm singing adios! Good luck with your process!!
 

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thanks for the input- I have already been accepted, so I do have to make a decision, and I think you are correct in that ATSU affiliation will help out a LOT with a new school. GOOD luck studying, and thanks for the info.... anyone else?
 

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So, I am considering the program at ATSU MESA even though i am already accepted to a school i realy like, and that is established. I DO like the Idea of being in the clinical setting for years 2-4, and I think there are always enough resources available to learn/ practice for the licensing exams, But i am unsure as to whether or not this is the right 'risk' to take with my education. Truth be told, it sound like a great way to learn medicine, but I am a bit conflicted....The dean is the former head of the AACOM, so i feel it would be a credible program, but any input would be appreciated.

Some would consider this to be a negative rather than a positive.
 

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So, I am considering the program at ATSU MESA even though i am already accepted to a school i realy like, and that is established. I DO like the Idea of being in the clinical setting for years 2-4, and I think there are always enough resources available to learn/ practice for the licensing exams, But i am unsure as to whether or not this is the right 'risk' to take with my education. Truth be told, it sound like a great way to learn medicine, but I am a bit conflicted....The dean is the former head of the AACOM, so i feel it would be a credible program, but any input would be appreciated.

I have a couple concerns about this new system & I will just let you know them since you want opinions.

First...I would be concerned as a student in getting all the necessary basic science material that is going to be necessary to do well on the boards (COMLEX & USMLE). Now if you are not interested & will not be interested in a competitive specialty, this doesn't really apply to you. However, I am over half way done w/ my second year & realize that I have a ton of work to do before I will be ready to excel on the boards (this after have two focused years on basic sciences).

Don't get me wrong, I say nearly 3x q week that I wish I were in the hospitals & clinics. I would love to be seeing patients & developing my doctoring skills (especially since it is beginning to feel like all the compassion is being beat out of me w/ each binder full of notes they throw at me). The clinics & wards are where you really learn medicine...It's just too bad Step I isn't concerned w/ that.

Second, I think the little over 1 year of classroom work resembles a bit too closely the training a PA receives. PA's are great & they get a crash course in most of the things we do, but we are physicians for a reason. We have to be able to manage big & small complications along w/ the everyday mundane H&P. I just see a 'shorter' classroom curriculum for physicians, giving PA's more footing on their never-ending quest to get more practice rights. Every group in health care lobby harder than physicians, but that's a discussion for another time.

So I guess I have absolutely no doubt that the school will provide a great clinincal education & Mesa students will probably do disproportionately well on Step 2 (that would be an interesting study for you to do in a few years), but we all know that Step 1 is what residencies look for. Good luck in your decision process.

Kritter
 

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I share your concerns and also your positives about the program.... Im beginning to think that it may be very good, as I do not believe the teaching of step 1 material will be 'skipped over' in year two, it's just that it will be implemented differently.. Also we will be returning to campus at the end of year two for a comprehensive board prep in AZ. still really conflicted, but beginning to se a bit more clearly...
thanks for the opinions....
 

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please tell me how you feel this is so? Are you a current M.D./D.O. student or a physician?

The leadership figures in the D.O. community (more so from AOA) have really resisted the changes many D.O.'s would like to see take shape in todays world and come across very old fashioned. I know it seems like mesa is going to be new and cutting edge but when you look at what they are trying to push down there it falls in line with what the "older" D.O.'s have been pushing for years now. I am not trying to insult you for possibly attending this school I am just saying what I think and why I feel it is not right for me.

by the way, your avatar is freakin awesome. Could you provide a story to go along with the pic?
 

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The leadership figures in the D.O. community (more so from AOA) have really resisted the changes many D.O.'s would like to see take shape in todays world and come across very old fashioned. I know it seems like mesa is going to be new and cutting edge but when you look at what they are trying to push down there it falls in line with what the "older" D.O.'s have been pushing for years now. I am not trying to insult you for possibly attending this school I am just saying what I think and why I feel it is not right for me.

by the way, your avatar is freakin awesome. Could you provide a story to go along with the pic?

Not insulted at all. :thumbup: I appreciate the discussion. I feel that the main focus may be towards primary care, and that could be in line with the 'old' view, but the educational cirriculum is new, and not unproven I might add. I do think there may be some bias b/c it is different, but if we can do well on the boards, i think it will be a positive. We will come into residency with almost a full year of extra clinical exposure, and it may be more helpful than not. I also like that the school has a plan that takes us through RESIDENCY, not to mention we already know the place/ area where all of our rotations will be. Not sure either, just trying not to be close minded. BTW- all the physicians I spoke to in the past few days have been positive about the idea. They all feel that doing is better than reading alone, and that the school would be very careful to ensure that we have all of the information and tools to do well, not only b/c it is new, but b/c of who the dean is, and the fact that the founding school is 115 years old, and would not be supporting this project if it was not something that they believed would be an improvement. Another thing is that all three agreed that medical school is about learning the basics, and the 'real' training does not come until residency- They are all doing more research for me, and I will let u know what I find out.
 

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good dialogue. i'm interviewing at kcom thursday 2/22, and i just sent in my acceptance for comm. i think i will use the experience to gain a good reference to where atsu and osteopathy overall is coming from. however, i am still open to what kcom has to offer, plus actually being able to see most of the facilities (there's a new building for spring right?), and getting the campus feel would be cool with students all around. they both have the establishment, but the bias towards primary care may be a worry at comm, just b/c i've known many med students to change their mind (right now i'm leaning heavy toward primary and emergency care). i have a feeling that comm wont limit the exposure to other specialities, yet kcom, having their rotation sites at major cities guarantees the exposure, i think. i'm not sure where exactly but probably larger med centers than chc's. i wonder where we will do our rotations for year 3/4 for comm's chc's. also, using a canadian model to prepare for the comlex, is it comparable to the canadian boards?, will it prove to work at comm?. i wonder where we can find info about that model and compare it to scores. on the otherhand, med school is med school. who cares about the model, lack of experience, etc.? as long as you get a good education, work hard, and believe in yourself than you can succeed anywhere.

so its a lot to think about. but hey its just an interview, whos to say i am in. i guess i should stop procrastinating and pack.
 

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What exactly is the Canadian model? I'm asking because I'm Canadian and I'm just curious.


good dialogue. i'm interviewing at kcom thursday 2/22, and i just sent in my acceptance for comm. i think i will use the experience to gain a good reference to where atsu and osteopathy overall is coming from. however, i am still open to what kcom has to offer, plus actually being able to see most of the facilities (there's a new building for spring right?), and getting the campus feel would be cool with students all around. they both have the establishment, but the bias towards primary care may be a worry at comm, just b/c i've known many med students to change their mind (right now i'm leaning heavy toward primary and emergency care). i have a feeling that comm wont limit the exposure to other specialities, yet kcom, having their rotation sites at major cities guarantees the exposure, i think. i'm not sure where exactly but probably larger med centers than chc's. i wonder where we will do our rotations for year 3/4 for comm's chc's. also, using a canadian model to prepare for the comlex, is it comparable to the canadian boards?, will it prove to work at comm?. i wonder where we can find info about that model and compare it to scores. on the otherhand, med school is med school. who cares about the model, lack of experience, etc.? as long as you get a good education, work hard, and believe in yourself than you can succeed anywhere.

so its a lot to think about. but hey its just an interview, whos to say i am in. i guess i should stop procrastinating and pack.
 
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MD/DO ALMOST

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good dialogue. i'm interviewing at kcom thursday 2/22, and i just sent in my acceptance for comm. i think i will use the experience to gain a good reference to where atsu and osteopathy overall is coming from. however, i am still open to what kcom has to offer, plus actually being able to see most of the facilities (there's a new building for spring right?), and getting the campus feel would be cool with students all around. they both have the establishment, but the bias towards primary care may be a worry at comm, just b/c i've known many med students to change their mind (right now i'm leaning heavy toward primary and emergency care). i have a feeling that comm wont limit the exposure to other specialities, yet kcom, having their rotation sites at major cities guarantees the exposure, i think. i'm not sure where exactly but probably larger med centers than chc's. i wonder where we will do our rotations for year 3/4 for comm's chc's. also, using a canadian model to prepare for the comlex, is it comparable to the canadian boards?, will it prove to work at comm?. i wonder where we can find info about that model and compare it to scores. on the otherhand, med school is med school. who cares about the model, lack of experience, etc.? as long as you get a good education, work hard, and believe in yourself than you can succeed anywhere.

so its a lot to think about. but hey its just an interview, whos to say i am in. i guess i should stop procrastinating and pack.

GOOD POINTS.... I think the 'model' is similar because the basic sciences are the same at virtually all med schools, and it has been proven at other schools in the US. IM sure Gary Cloud or Dean Wood will be able to point us in the right direction on researching the subject. As for year 3-4, we will be at the CHC's and some affiliated sites- depends on which site you are at; some are more developed and advanced than others. ( the Brooklyn site, for ex. , has a lot of hospital facilities, etc.)
I agree the solid KCOM program may be a more secure option, and it deinitely has the rep- A very good one at that. If you get in, go, especially if you have no REALLY STRONG connection to the CHC site. I myself have been accepted to many schools, thought I had a decision made, and then saw the program description and applied to MESA. I have family and friends where one site is located, and I used to live there. It is the place I wanted to practice later anyway, and seeing as how I wanted to study osteopathic medicine, it seemed like the perfect fit. I am not sre if it will inhibit our abilities to be specialists, but as I see it now, the only limitations are those which we place upon ourselves..... decisions, decisions.......
 

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(1) As for year 3-4, we will be at the CHC's and some affiliated sites- depends on which site you are at; some are more developed and advanced than others. ( the Brooklyn site, for ex. , has a lot of hospital facilities, etc.)

(2) I agree the solid KCOM program may be a more secure option, and it deinitely has the rep- A very good one at that.

(3) If you get in, go, especially if you have no REALLY STRONG connection to the CHC site. I myself have been accepted to many schools, thought I had a decision made, and then saw the program description and applied to MESA. I have family and friends where one site is located, and I used to live there. It is the place I wanted to practice later anyway, and seeing as how I wanted to study osteopathic medicine, it seemed like the perfect fit. I am not sre if it will inhibit our abilities to be specialists, but as I see it now, the only limitations are those which we place upon ourselves..... decisions, decisions.......

a model used in a canadian and other schools, but not yet in the united states. how does the comlex compare to the candian test?

the beaufort site is near hilton head.

1. i'm worried about some of the "less developed" sites. i know they have everything thought out but it would be nice to get more information about the chc when we get our acceptance packet, instead of the one line. how bout additional resources? cloud gave some good info, but there was a lot to stomach, plus the whole day overall is exhausting, and i couldnt get all the info down all the time.

2. i just interviewed and it really assures me of the quality of atsu, and the care and investment they have in their students. my motivation to check kcom was to get a perspective and reference on everything, and i did. the inheritance of atsu's rep will be in mesa, and i think being the inaugural they will make the extra effort for us to do well. some of the current students here even said they would have applied to the mesa program if it were available. the one thing to compare i can think of for now is that the kcom clerkships are not really in areas that i am interested in, nor targeting the populations i intend to serve. plus having the certainty before year 1, vs. the semi-uncertainty and relocating after year 2 at kcom, can put folks at ease, and influence their decision.

3. i dont have a really strong connection to the exact chc in seattle, but i have a very strong intention to practice here. turns out though that i did not get this number one preference. its not like it was full or anything, but i think they matched me to hawaii for a reason. not because i have strong connections, or because i want to practice in hawaii, but maybe because i want to work with/have history serving disadvantaged asian/pacific islander populations, and hawaii is the ultimate for that.

if you notice where the sites are, some are in places without a nearby osteopathic program--sc, hawaii, seattle, oregon, midcal, and others. so its like we are ambassadors for atsu and osteopathy. i truly believe in mesa's mission, and i really think it fits with me.
 

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I am a KCOM student in the AZ region and have a very intimate relation with the mesa program/facilities/and rotations situations in the state of Az. If you want specifics or personal opinion send me a pm and I will respond. Due to the nature of the the message board I dont feel it appropriate to post my unsolicited opinion in a public setting.

congrats on the acceptance to medical school
 

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a model used in a canadian and other schools, but not yet in the united states. how does the comlex compare to the candian test?

the beaufort site is near hilton head.

1. i'm worried about some of the "less developed" sites. i know they have everything thought out but it would be nice to get more information about the chc when we get our acceptance packet, instead of the one line. how bout additional resources? cloud gave some good info, but there was a lot to stomach, plus the whole day overall is exhausting, and i couldnt get all the info down all the time.

2. i just interviewed and it really assures me of the quality of atsu, and the care and investment they have in their students. my motivation to check kcom was to get a perspective and reference on everything, and i did. the inheritance of atsu's rep will be in mesa, and i think being the inaugural they will make the extra effort for us to do well. some of the current students here even said they would have applied to the mesa program if it were available. the one thing to compare i can think of for now is that the kcom clerkships are not really in areas that i am interested in, nor targeting the populations i intend to serve. plus having the certainty before year 1, vs. the semi-uncertainty and relocating after year 2 at kcom, can put folks at ease, and influence their decision.

3. i dont have a really strong connection to the exact chc in seattle, but i have a very strong intention to practice here. turns out though that i did not get this number one preference. its not like it was full or anything, but i think they matched me to hawaii for a reason. not because i have strong connections, or because i want to practice in hawaii, but maybe because i want to work with/have history serving disadvantaged asian/pacific islander populations, and hawaii is the ultimate for that.

if you notice where the sites are, some are in places without a nearby osteopathic program--sc, hawaii, seattle, oregon, midcal, and others. so its like we are ambassadors for atsu and osteopathy. i truly believe in mesa's mission, and i really think it fits with me.

good points, and thanks for the perspective from KCOM. Im sure that's why you got sent to HI BTW- If you really want to change it, im sure they would be willing to work with you- after all, they want to place you where you'll stay.
 

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Also we will be returning to campus at the end of year two for a comprehensive board prep in AZ. still really conflicted, but beginning to se a bit more clearly...
thanks for the opinions....

We return to AZ in year two for board prep? How are we going to get housing for only 6 weeks?
 

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if you notice where the sites are, some are in places without a nearby osteopathic program--sc, hawaii, seattle, oregon, midcal, and others. so its like we are ambassadors for atsu and osteopathy. i truly believe in mesa's mission, and i really think it fits with me.

Isn't that a bit worriesome? Not having any DO presence in the area?(I've been assigned to the Seattle site). The AZ rotations sound great b/c there's a DO presence in the area through AZCOM and ATSU. But how many hospitals in Washington are going to want to take those...what are they called...oh yeah, DOs?
 

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Isn't that a bit worriesome? Not having any DO presence in the area?(I've been assigned to the Seattle site). The AZ rotations sound great b/c there's a DO presence in the area through AZCOM and ATSU. But how many hospitals in Washington are going to want to take those...what are they called...oh yeah, DOs?

i dont think it will be that hard for washingtonians to embrace do's. if anything its just the little hump to say to the lay person..this is what a DO is. there is not a strong do presence in washington, though there is the WOMA, and the upcoming PNUHS, so with the school especially and us comm'ers (i talked to the woma receptionist) there is greater possibility for do specific rotations and more visibility in washington. it is kinda sad though that i work at harborview, the level 1 trauma center for the 5 State Area (WA, WY, AK, MT, ID), and some people dont know much about or even of osteopathic medicine. its usually the physicians which know about do's and i have yet to run into one at the hospital...though it is a big hospital. thats why i think its cool how atsu-comm students will be the ambassadors of osteopathy (do back in the day was a diplomat of osteopathy), and help bring/make more visible this tradition to the rest of america.
 

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i dont think it will be that hard for washingtonians to embrace do's. if anything its just the little hump to say to the lay person..this is what a DO is. there is not a strong do presence in washington, though there is the WOMA, and the upcoming PNUHS, so with the school especially and us comm'ers (i talked to the woma receptionist) there is greater possibility for do specific rotations and more visibility in washington.

Do you know if WOMA has any affiliations with ATSU-Mesa?
 

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i'm not 100% that they work directly with eachother, but i'm sure they are helping. if you can, start making contacts with them, they can introduce you to do's and they have events.

p.s there is about 600 do's practicing in washington.
 
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