Attendings: Since when do medical students start calling attendings by first name?

[ClearDay]

I'm in the West coast. It amazes me to no end that ALL medical students refer to me by my first name the very first time I met them. I don't mind being called by my first name, but the fact that they all did that on their own accord is so perplexing. Is this a west coast thing or am I completely crazy? I went to a rather traditional medical school and trained on the East coast--- I can see why a medical student would call a resident by their first name, but a medical student addressing an attending by first name without being told to do so boggles my mind. Thoughts?

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[teeva]

Must be your institution. I'm in CA and no student calls me or any attending in any speciality by their first name.

 

[Nivens]

I'm a resident in the northeast, and all of the medical students call me Dr Nivens (until I insist they call me by my first name). I also call most of my attendings Dr X, though that is a personal choice.

As an aside, I saw an MA wearing a long white coat yesterday. Can we officially proclaim the coat killed at this point?

 

[deleted547339]

I'm a resident in the northeast, and all of the medical students call me Dr Nivens (until I insist they call me by my first name). I also call most of my attendings Dr X, though that is a personal choice.

As an aside, I saw an MA wearing a long white coat yesterday. Can we officially proclaim the coat killed at this point?

How can you call something dead when my ICU nurse manager wouldn't be seen without it? It's alive and well.

 

[pgg]

I've been at places on both ends of that spectrum, both as a resident and attending.

It's just local culture. Go with it.

But remember, if you're a trainee, and the culture is to use first names, just because you're calling attendings by their first name and you're friendly/informal with them, doesn't mean that they're really "friends" - they're there to teach, supervise, and evaluate you. Don't drop the rest of the formality and deference.

I'm presently a trainee again (fellow) at a place where there's a lot of first-naming, and while I consider a number of my attendings friends and I'll keep in touch after I leave, when we're doing cases together I presume nothing and address them as Dr.

 

[Urzuz]

I'm in the West coast. It amazes me to no end that ALL medical students refer to me by my first name the very first time I met them. I don't mind being called by my first name, but the fact that they all did that on their own accord is so perplexing. Is this a west coast thing or am I completely crazy? I went to a rather traditional medical school and trained on the East coast--- I can see why a medical student would call a resident by their first name, but a medical student addressing an attending by first name without being told to do so boggles my mind. Thoughts?

Out of curiosity, how old are you? I trained on the West Coast and we used to call our younger attendings by their first names, sometimes even without them prompting us to. I think it's a cultural thing. Outside the hospital we used to go out and party with some of them too...

 

[deleted480308]

Every doc, even residents, are all Dr. soandso until they make a point to order me to use first names, and even then they become dr around other attendings that don't do first names.

A med student shouldn't be assuming that level of familiarity

I've been working for months on a project with a resident....still Dr

 

[Nivens]

How can you call something dead when my ICU nurse manager wouldn't be seen without it? It's alive and well.

I meant for physicians.

The best is when you see nurses and admins (and sigh, physicians) wearing them out of the hospital.

 

[rakotomazoto]

As a west coast resident, I still call all attendings "doctor" until they insist otherwise. I trained on the east coast, med students in California are super casual and in general the expectations for them seem very low, especially their clinical duties and hours.

Some seem to enjoy being lazy, others realize that they are missing out on things by leaving the OR for the day before noon. The hard workers easily stand out from their peers and it reflects in my evaluations of them.

One of the senior neurosurgery attendings told me there was a student who scrubbed out of a case because he had bought movie tickets for that afternoon and the case was going a little long...

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[Dam272]

As a west coast resident, I still call all attendings "doctor" until they insist otherwise. I trained on the east coast, med students in California are super casual and in general the expectations for them seem very low, especially their clinical duties and hours.

Some seem to enjoy being lazy, others realize that they are missing out on things by leaving the OR for the day before noon. The hard workers easily stand out from their peers and it reflects in my evaluations of them.

One of the senior neurosurgery attendings told me there was a student who scrubbed out of a case because he had bought movie tickets for that afternoon and the case was going a little long...

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Thats a valid reason now. What if he wouldnt have been able to buy popcorn?

 

[pgg]

One of the senior neurosurgery attendings told me there was a student who scrubbed out of a case because he had bought movie tickets for that afternoon and the case was going a little long...

To be fair, if I was a med student and had the 'nads to do it, I'd scrub out of a neurosurgery case if the sun was shining. Ain't no learning to be had staring at a guy with his head on a microscope for hours and hours.

 

[Urzuz]

As a west coast resident, I still call all attendings "doctor" until they insist otherwise. I trained on the east coast, med students in California are super casual and in general the expectations for them seem very low, especially their clinical duties and hours.

Some seem to enjoy being lazy, others realize that they are missing out on things by leaving the OR for the day before noon. The hard workers easily stand out from their peers and it reflects in my evaluations of them.

One of the senior neurosurgery attendings told me there was a student who scrubbed out of a case because he had bought movie tickets for that afternoon and the case was going a little long...

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I think your experience is more of an institutional thing than a cultural "West Coast" thing. We busted our asses as medical students and residents. And conversely, I'm sure there are plenty of lazy medical students on the East Coast too.

The whole bit about addressing attendings by their first name is cultural though and is probably an East vs West Coast thing. You'll also notice stark differences in the way people dress - I didn't know where my white coat was by the end of medical school, and I can probably count on one hand the number times I wore my white coat as a resident. Also wore a jeans and a hoodie to work every day as a resident. Talking to some colleagues and friends on the East Coast, I probably would have gotten reprimanded if I had been on the East Coast.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

I'm in the West coast. It amazes me to no end that ALL medical students refer to me by my first name the very first time I met them. I don't mind being called by my first name, but the fact that they all did that on their own accord is so perplexing. Is this a west coast thing or am I completely crazy? I went to a rather traditional medical school and trained on the East coast--- I can see why a medical student would call a resident by their first name, but a medical student addressing an attending by first name without being told to do so boggles my mind. Thoughts?

I definitely think there's a coastal bias. When I was a med student I had a GYN attending from California reprimand me FOR calling her Dr. While here on the East Coast I have a hard time getting residents who are 2-3 years younger than me to call me by my first name.

 

[teeva]

I haven't worn pants to work in over 2 years. Shorts and T-shirt all the time, rain or shine, winter or summer. Same as the rest of the OR crew.

Surgeons still dress up though because they have clinic and rounds.

The quality of med students East vs. West Coast go along the same bell curve IME.

 

[Promethean]

As an aside, I saw an MA wearing a long white coat yesterday. Can we officially proclaim the coat killed at this point?

Physicians never owned the long white coat. It was pilfered from bench scientists to give medicine more of a respectable appearance of being scientific, long before evidence based medicine was really a thing. The theft of the symbol was so effective that now people get offended at the thought of folks wearing them for their original functional purposes.

The white coat that really matters is the short clerkship coat of the medical student, and it is only useful as a visible warning indicating that the wearer is not to be trusted. Its unfashionable cut is meant to telegraph to all in the know that they are in the presence of an unlicensed n00b.

Back to the OP's question. The west coast does tend to be a lot less formal, especially compared to the northeast. Calling an attending by their first name without being invited to do so strikes me rather like kids who call their parents by names instead of Mom and Dad. In both cases, even out west, it is not going to be terribly common in absolute numbers, but it is going to be relatively far more common where you are than where you trained.

 

[Promethean]

I definitely think there's a coastal bias. When I was a med student I had a GYN attending from California reprimand me FOR calling her Dr. While here on the East Coast I have a hard time getting residents who are 2-3 years younger than me to call me by my first name.

I am a nontraditional east coast medical student who is easily 10+ years older than my residents and I still would not dream of using a resident's first name without invitation... and probably not even then.

When I worked as an RN, I commonly used first names with attendings (after being invited to do so.) But as a student? It is useful to have roles clearly communicated, and these little traditions reinforce those role boundaries.

 

[pjl]

I meant for physicians.

The best is when you see nurses and admins (and sigh, physicians) wearing them out of the hospital.

At that point they are butchers.

The real question about names is how you introduce yourself to them.

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[nimbus]

I remember the short white coat vs long white coat hierarchy of my medical school. Seems so quaint and amusing at this point.

 

[anbuitachi]

Depends on local culture. At my institution med students usually call attendings Dr xyz unless attending tells them otherwise. But residents, even new residents, often call attendings by first name even during 1st encounter

 

[67552931811]

In my neck of the woods you can tell who the docs are because they are the only ones who ARENT wearing a white coat. That or they wear grey or light blue coats. I think the latter is a regional thing, though.

While at my previous occupation I saw everyone besides the janitors wearing white coats: MA, Chaplains, and even the secretaries who sit and answer the phones all day. Was totally bewildered by it when I first began. Maybe it helped fuel my inner hatred for wearing, either now or in the future, that damn thing, short or long?

 

[Ronin2258]

When I trained, I earned the right to call an attending by their first name by what I did and what I know. I let them call the shots on whether they want me to be called by their first name or not.

 

[Dam272]

Maybe its my military upbringing, but I can never ever call my superior (senior resident or an attending) with their first name. It just "sounds" wrong..

 

[Pisiform]

Here, we call our attending by Dr. lastname or sometimes sir. Residents we call them by Dr. lastname too as long as they say call me by my first name


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[MaximusD]

I always call my attendings by doctor... typically even when they ask me not to. Sometimes if no other professionals are around, I will do the first name basis thing if it's a casual setting and they have asked me repeatedly.

 

[SeniorWrangler]

One of the senior neurosurgery attendings told me there was a student who scrubbed out of a case because he had bought movie tickets for that afternoon and the case was going a little long...

This is acceptable in some circumstances -- hard to say without knowing which movie it was.

 

[D P356]

That's strange. There are young attendings who were at my home program as residents. When I met them as a student, they told me to call them by their first name. Now that they are attendings, I call them Dr ___ 99.9% of the time. Even one that was a resident my intern year. I agree, even if they're nice people and fun to work with, they are not there to be your friend.

 

[abolt18]

I've definitely always referred to my attendings as Dr. ____.

I go to church with, and am a boy scout leader with, one of my surgery attendings. His daughters babysit my kids frequently. The second I step through those hospital doors, he's Dr. Surgeon. Outside of the hospital our interactions are very informal.

 

[Drangue]

I have never called an attending for their first name but I do call the residents by their first name,