PhD/PsyD Augsburg University Clinical Psychology Fall of 2021

[Mason_Ost]

I am currently considering an offer to attend this program in the Fall of 2021. I am waitlisted by two other programs, and feel hesitant to accept the offer to Augsburg even if it is my only option. I'll provide a rundown of information that I am aware of and also how the interview day went. Also - the current status of APA accreditation.

It is my understanding that the old program had a licensure rate of 87% and and APA internship match rate between 90-95%. Those rates sound high to me, but I frankly do not know enough about different programs and their rates to make any valid judgement. That information was provided to me by their admissions counselor through email (not stating which years those marks were hit).

The interview day went well in my estimation, there were a total of 9 of us in the interview over Zoom. The admissions counselor was their as well as the program director and one faculty member. We introduced ourselves and got to know a bit more about the program. They heavily stressed the importance of attending an APA accredited program and also explicitly said multiple times that attending their program currently was a risk as they are not APA accredited and cannot guarantee that they will be in the future. The current status of their APA accreditation is that they have a site-visit planned between September-December (which was supposed be be last year, but was delayed because of COVID). I attended a Happy Hour zoom call a month ago and the faculty basically told me that they were more than 100% confident that they would receive APA accreditation after the site-visit. Obviously, they do not know that, but it is my understanding that their interactions with the APA are very positive and the current teach-out students who are APA accredited had to go through the same process before attending Augsburg. So my program (being the same as the teach-out students) should theoretically have no reason not to be accepted by the APA. I should also point out that the former program received 10 years of APA accreditation in 2018 before Argosy went under.

I have read all the negatives about Argosy, but the former program (Minnesota School of Professional Psychology) I have also heard to be an exception to the other programs that Argosy offered (being much better quality/smaller cohorts/etc).

I should also mention that I am still open to the idea of postponing attendance this year and retrying for a funded or partially funded PhD/PsyD program next year. I am 26 years old, and would like to start a program as quickly as possible to avoid the feeling that I am wasting time by waiting to reapply again. The feeling of being "behind" in terms of age is disheartening. I am also a bit disturbed by the cost of tuition, and have read many of the forums posts here on the negatives of unfunded program costs.

Please let me know your thoughts or concerns! I'll try to provide any other information as well that I am able to.

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[summerbabe]

I should also mention that I am still open to the idea of postponing attendance this year and retrying for funded or partially PhD/PsyD programs next year.

Being waitlisted suggests that you had enough to have your application considered

If you did not take this offer, could you put together a plan to beef up your research CV and stats by the next cycle? With the possible benefit of being more competitive for higher quality self-pay programs as well as funded ones?

the faculty basically told me that they were more than 100% confident that they would receive APA accreditation after the site-visit.

I’m glad the faculty are projecting confidence but I’m glad somebody cautioned the program being a risk during admission day since tue deciultimately out of the faculty’s hands.

In a scenario where you had another offer from somewhere accredited, how strongly (or weakly) would you consider this one? That might give you some clues about how to proceed. Also, 27+ isn’t late at all as long as you know what you’re getting into. Good luck!

 

[MCParent]

It is my understanding that the old program had a licensure rate of 87% and and APA internship match rate between 90-95%. Those rates sound high to me, but I frankly do not know enough about different programs and their rates to make any valid judgement.

The old program being Argsoy? None of their sites was anywhere near a reliable 90-95% match rate

https://www.appic.org/Portals/0/downloads/APPIC_Match_Rates_2011-2019_by_UniversityV2.pdf

And EPPP pass rates were that high for only one program in 2016.

https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.asppb.net/resource/resmgr/EPPP_/2016_Scores_by_Doctoral_Prog.pdf

Did you "understanding" come from their advertising materials?

 

[WisNeuro]

The old program being Argsoy? None of their sites was anywhere near a reliable 90-95% match rate

https://www.appic.org/Portals/0/downloads/APPIC_Match_Rates_2011-2019_by_UniversityV2.pdf

And EPPP pass rates were that high for only one program in 2016.

https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.asppb.net/resource/resmgr/EPPP_/2016_Scores_by_Doctoral_Prog.pdf

Did you "understanding" come from their advertising materials?

To add, I wouldn't hold this particular argosy in higher regards to other argosy programs. Extremely variable experience with grads from this program.

 

[Mason_Ost]

The old program being Argsoy? None of their sites was anywhere near a reliable 90-95% match rate

https://www.appic.org/Portals/0/downloads/APPIC_Match_Rates_2011-2019_by_UniversityV2.pdf

And EPPP pass rates were that high for only one program in 2016.

https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.asppb.net/resource/resmgr/EPPP_/2016_Scores_by_Doctoral_Prog.pdf

Did you "understanding" come from their advertising materials?

Thank you for supplying that information to me. Those rates are much lower than I was aware of. Although I was suspect of the information I received to begin with. I wasn't able to find the EPPP pass rates for that branch of Argosy though from https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.asppb.net/resource/resmgr/EPPP_/2016_Scores_by_Doctoral_Prog.pdf.

I would say my understanding came from a combination of their website/ the interview and questions I have emailed to them/ reading some 100+ forums on PsyD programs and any I could find about Argosy/ anecdotal evidence of experience. Not that I know enough information, hence this post.

Do you know of any reasons as to why their numbers might be so low? Do you think it is the quality of the program itself (considering they were APA accredited and received 10 years accreditation in 2018), or do you think it may be more due to the fact that they admit more, potentially unqualified, students?

Thanks for you responses by the way.

 

[Mason_Ost]

Being waitlisted suggests that you had enough to have your application considered

If you did not take this offer, could you put together a plan to beef up your research CV and stats by the next cycle? With the possible benefit of being more competitive for higher quality self-pay programs as well as funded ones?


I’m glad the faculty are projecting confidence but I’m glad somebody cautioned the program being a risk during admission day since tue deciultimately out of the faculty’s hands.

In a scenario where you had another offer from somewhere accredited, how strongly (or weakly) would you consider this one? That might give you some clues about how to proceed. Also, 27+ isn’t late at all as long as you know what you’re getting into. Good luck!

I am currently working on trying to publish some research I was completing during my final undergrad year (first author). Which would give me a total of one publication total. For research experience, I also completed a group research project during my undergrad and was also the TA of my school's highest research course. Which I oversaw the work of 30+ students research projects. I could attempt to increase my research experience for the upcoming cycle, just wouldn't bank on my ability to do that or work somewhere that would facilitate it as I live in a more rural area.

I should say, I am waitlisted by both of Midwestern's PsyD programs (which I truthfully don't have a ton of information on besides their website and a few things I've read on forums) - but, they are APA accredited and I would jump ship immediately if I end up being accepted to either one, preferably the school in Arizona. I only applied to one PhD program as I wasn't interested in the idea of it being research focused, but I find myself being swayed by those programs now.

The biggest hesitation on that front for me is this: I applied to about 14 programs, and got offers to 2 programs (both not currently APA accredited) and waitlisted by those two other programs. I received 10 rejections. Ouch. My worry is that, what is to say I do not receive an offer to any program next year? Then I am two years behind schedule when I could have potentially been in a program that seems likely to receive APA accreditation.

Maybe I am short-sighted in my perspective, but what would you guys do in my situation? My cum GPA was a 3.45 (had some difficulty as a bio major in my first two years) and my Psych GPA was a 3.78. I never studied for the GRE and was roughly 50-60% percentile overall. So I could study hard for it and retake it, I just knew that last cycle didn't require it because of COVID.

Thanks again for your responses guys, this is really crucial for me to get figured out.

 

[MCParent]

Do you know of any reasons as to why their numbers might be so low? Do you think it is the quality of the program itself (considering they were APA accredited and received 10 years accreditation in 2018), or do you think it may be more due to the fact that they admit more, potentially unqualified, students?

Combination of both.

 

[summerbabe]

I am currently working on trying to publish some research I was completing during my final undergrad year (first author). Which would give me a total of one publication total.

A first author pub should give you a major leg up during the next application cycle and would help differentiate your application from many others (those who have 2nd+ author pubs, only posters, research experience without pubs, etc). Would you still have support from your undergrad prof/lab to work that project into an acceptable manuscript?

My worry is that, what is to say I do not receive an offer to any program next year? Then I am two years behind schedule when I could have potentially been in a program that seems likely to receive APA accreditation.

Yes, that's always the risk. But you also might have a viable path to submitting your undergrad research. If that works out, you would likely get interviews at funded programs and also be more competitive at significantly higher quality self-pays programs.

Getting in is important but getting out with as little debt as possible and unrestricted future job prospects (e.g., APA accredited everything) should be the primary goal. And if you decide you need/want to fork over a bunch of money for a PsyD (I personally wouldn't for all kinds of reasons), at least pay for a higher quality one.

TBH, you're playing Russian Roulette right now with this current offer.

I never studied for the GRE and was roughly 50-60% percentile overall. So I could study hard for it and retake it, I just knew that last cycle didn't require it because of COVID.

It's very possible to improve GRE scores by understanding GRE-specific test strategies, cramming some GRE-centric vocab and getting familiar with practice tests.

 

[Mason_Ost]

A first author pub should give you a major leg up during the next application cycle and would help differentiate your application from many others (those who have 2nd+ author pubs, only posters, research experience without pubs, etc). Would you still have support from your undergrad prof/lab to work that project into an acceptable manuscript?

Oh really? I was unaware that this could provide me with a major leg up. I should say, it is me and another student I worked with that will be publishing it. So it would be a co-first authorship. Not sure how much that matters, but we should at the very least have an acceptable manuscript by the next application cycle replicating a study on the effect of the sunk cost fallacy. We currently (even though I'm graduated) have support from a Clinical Psych professor helping us to refine and edit it for publication.

And if you decide you need/want to fork over a bunch of money for a PsyD (I personally wouldn't for all kinds of reasons)

Can you elaborate a few of the reasons why you wouldn't pursue a PsyD for x amount of money? I know some obvious ones, but is there anything that a person like myself who hasn't experienced what a program is like or even the larger workforce (higher salary/professional jobs) to begin with might not be seeing?

It's very possible to improve GRE scores by understanding GRE-specific test strategies, cramming some GRE-centric vocab and getting familiar with practice tests.

I hope so. I've heard mixed ideas of people from saying that it is borderline nigh impossible to improve GRE scores generally speaking... to students can go up 10-20% percentile with relative ease if they study and take it multiple times.


Again thank you for the responses, I don't have a large circle around me of competent advice that I can pull from to help me with this decision.

 

[Mason_Ost]

Also - if anyone here could forward this thread to someone they know that could provide more information or advice I would also really appreciate it. Big favor for a random person on the internet I know .

 

[ClinicalABA]

...
Can you elaborate a few of the reasons why you wouldn't pursue a PsyD for x amount of money? I know some obvious ones, but is there anything that a person like myself who hasn't experienced what a program is like or even the larger workforce (higher salary/professional jobs) to begin with might not be seeing?
...

Assuming 5 years of tuition, its over $200K for a program with no published stats, questionable stats given to you from someone affiliated with the program, and no guarantee of meeting minimal standards of training (i.e., APA accreditation). Would you be financing tuition? If so, on a $150k (assuming you might be able to scrape up 50k , you'd be looking at loan payments of of $1000 per month for 20 years ($1500+ if you want to go 10 years). That's a HUGE gamble that will have huge negative impact on your life, as a median salaries for PsyDs don't support that type of monthly payment with some serious scrimping. If you have the means to pay out of pocket, then it'd probably be a better investment to use some of that to cover expenses while you took some time to make your application more competitive at cheaper, more highly regarded (and likely better) programs.

 

[summerbabe]

Oh really? I was unaware that this could provide me with a major leg up. I should say, it is me and another student I worked with that will be publishing it. So it would be a co-first authorship. Not sure how much that matters, but we should at the very least have an acceptable manuscript by the next application cycle replicating a study on the effect of the sunk cost fallacy. We currently (even though I'm graduated) have support from a Clinical Psych professor helping us to refine and edit it for publication.

YMMV but that's my hunch. Have you read Mitch’s Uncensored Advice for Applying to Graduate School in Clinical Psychology? Now for funded programs, research fit is often more important than quantity but a pub is a tangible manifestation of your research efforts (and potential).

Can you elaborate a few of the reasons why you wouldn't pursue a PsyD for x amount of money? I know some obvious ones, but is there anything that a person like myself who hasn't experienced what a program is like or even the larger workforce (higher salary/professional jobs) to begin with might not be seeing?

Median psychologist salary is $82,180 ($6850/mo). Sounds great but at the 22% federal tax bracket, that's almost $14000 in federal taxes alone. Pus you'll have other deductions (social security, medicare, employee health insurance, etc) and state income tax. Your take home monthly gross is much more likely to be closer to $4000 than $7000. Now that can be plenty to live on depending on your lifestyle/circumstances.

However, grad student loans start accruing interest the moment they are dispersed so you might be looking at paying 25% of your income for 20 years (or a greater % for less years or a smaller % but until retirement), which will suck for every major (and not so major) life decision you'll face.

Many people take out loans to supplement living expenses in funded programs but the debt loads will be wildly different. Plus there are other health care professions that make more than psychologists for significantly less schooling.

I've heard mixed ideas of people from saying that it is borderline nigh impossible to improve GRE scores generally speaking... to students can go up 10-20% percentile with relative ease if they study and take it multiple times.

For example, the math section isn't testing your overall math competency but instead whatever the GRE decides is representative. And since ETS releases previous exams, there's a pretty big body of info suggesting what you need to learn/brush up on because similar themes repeat over and over.

 

[Mason_Ost]

You guys are awesome, thank you for the solid advice. I am currently at work and will reply this evening. I really appreciate the help, I'm already leaning heavily towards waiting and reapplying now as a result.

 

[Mason_Ost]

Assuming 5 years of tuition, its over $200K for a program with no published stats, questionable stats given to you from someone affiliated with the program, and no guarantee of meeting minimal standards of training (i.e., APA accreditation). Would you be financing tuition? If so, on a $150k (assuming you might be able to scrape up 50k , you'd be looking at loan payments of of $1000 per month for 20 years ($1500+ if you want to go 10 years). That's a HUGE gamble that will have huge negative impact on your life, as a median salaries for PsyDs don't support that type of monthly payment with some serious scrimping. If you have the means to pay out of pocket, then it'd probably be a better investment to use some of that to cover expenses while you took some time to make your application more competitive at cheaper, more highly regarded (and likely better) programs.

Thank you. Those are all really good reasons not to attend. I wouldn't be financing tuition, my current savings is only a fraction of what that program would cost me so I was anticipating taking out students loans for practically the entire program, including cost of living if necessary. I think you're right, that would have a major impact on my life for such a long time, that reapplying with a more solid CV and application would be a world of difference if it paid off.

Where do you think I stand in terms of competitiveness for this upcoming cycle? 3.45 cum GPA (lower grades in first two years), 3.78 Psych (all As in courses related to clinical psych such as abnormal psych, statistics, research methods, etc)... hypothetically 60th percentile on the GRE or even 70+(?) if I were to study and retake it. One publication or manuscript and some unpublished 2nd author group research as well. I might also add for what it might be worth. I work currently as a Community Based Rehabilitative Service worker (CBRS) so I have some exposure in the mental health field and also am a certified Pharmacy Technician (so I have a pretty solid understanding of the use of SSRIs SSNRIs) which I believe is important to know extensively about in any field of psychology. I also was a TA for a research course and served voluntarily for two years in Seoul, South Korea in my early twenties (which hopefully is a positive extracurricular achievement that could be worth a small bit). Lastly, my letters of recommendation come from two Clinical Psychologists at my former university and my head Pharmacist.

Perhaps most of what I said is irrelevant, but I feel fairly competitive minus my cum GPA.

YMMV but that's my hunch. Have you read Mitch’s Uncensored Advice for Applying to Graduate School in Clinical Psychology? Now for funded programs, research fit is often more important than quantity but a pub is a tangible manifestation of your research efforts (and potential).

Yeah I did read that, I should go over it again though considering it contained so much information. I am trying to keep my research interests broad since I realize as an undergrad I just do not know enough (likely) about psychology to specify my interests specifically.

Median psychologist salary is $82,180 ($6850/mo). Sounds great but at the 22% federal tax bracket, that's almost $14000 in federal taxes alone. Pus you'll have other deductions (social security, medicare, employee health insurance, etc) and state income tax. Your take home monthly gross is much more likely to be closer to $4000 than $7000. Now that can be plenty to live on depending on your lifestyle/circumstances.

Thank you for doing this math for me haha. I do agree that it seems as though it would be devastatingly hard to pay that off while also attending to any other major life circumstances like you mentioned. The thought of doing that for potentially 20 years is horrible.

 

[summerbabe]

Perhaps most of what I said is irrelevant, but I feel fairly competitive minus my cum GPA.

Broadly speaking, for mentorship-based funded programs, a person with better research fit with PI (which includes pubs/relevant experience) and program fit will be competitive with lower or middle of the road stats.

But people with great stats (and often solid pubs) generally have trouble overcoming poor fit.

I don’t have any direct insight into how non-mentorship model or self-pay programs might consider admissions and what they value more/less.

 

[Mason_Ost]

Bump

 

[foreverbull]

Since you'd asked about costs earlier, I copied and pasted this directly from a document I give to students who are planning to apply to doctoral programs. It breaks down the costs more specifically. The salary of an early career psychologist will vary by site/state, but the loan numbers are solid. It helps folks to see how the interest accrues sometimes.

• Graduating with $200K-$350K of debt after 4-6 years and taking a job that pays $65K-$70K/year. Some students graduate with a minimum loan payment of $1200+/month or higher, which means putting off marriage, house-buying, etc. to pay down enormous debt. Don’t want to rely on student loan forgiveness (which may disappear or end, and currently 99% of applicants are being rejected). Keep in mind that INTEREST ACCRUES DURING GRAD SCHOOL, making the numbers look MUCH higher than you’d expect.
• For example, if you take out $30K/year in loans at 6% interest (5 year program):
• you accrue $1800 interest in year 1,
• $3720 in year 2
• $5731 in year 3
• $7875 in year 4
• ~$10,147 in year 5
• Now you are graduating with NOT $150,000 in debt + 6% ($9,000),
• but $150,000 + $29,273 in interest ALONE, which equals $179,273!!!!!
• On top of this, most students enter forbearance during postdoc (most postdocs are terribly underpaid at $30K-$40K), not paying on loans due to financial hardship. During this year, ANOTHER $10,757 will accrue in interest alone, so by the time you start paying on your loans, your total after taking out $150K in loans is now:
• $190,030, with interest accruing at $950/month JUST TO BREAK EVEN – not even paying down a cent of your loan balance!
• If you pay $1500/month ($550 over monthly interest accrual), it will still take 29 years to pay off, and most early career psychologists don’t make a ton of money starting out, so $1500/month payments can mean eating peanut butter and jelly and living in a studio apartment for years after getting your doctorate.

 

[Mason_Ost]

Since you'd asked about costs earlier, I copied and pasted this directly from a document I give to students who are planning to apply to doctoral programs. It breaks down the costs more specifically. The salary of an early career psychologist will vary by site/state, but the loan numbers are solid. It helps folks to see how the interest accrues sometimes.

• Graduating with $200K-$350K of debt after 4-6 years and taking a job that pays $65K-$70K/year. Some students graduate with a minimum loan payment of $1200+/month or higher, which means putting off marriage, house-buying, etc. to pay down enormous debt. Don’t want to rely on student loan forgiveness (which may disappear or end, and currently 99% of applicants are being rejected). Keep in mind that INTEREST ACCRUES DURING GRAD SCHOOL, making the numbers look MUCH higher than you’d expect.
• For example, if you take out $30K/year in loans at 6% interest (5 year program):
• you accrue $1800 interest in year 1,
• $3720 in year 2
• $5731 in year 3
• $7875 in year 4
• ~$10,147 in year 5
• Now you are graduating with NOT $150,000 in debt + 6% ($9,000),
• but $150,000 + $29,273 in interest ALONE, which equals $179,273!!!!!
• On top of this, most students enter forbearance during postdoc (most postdocs are terribly underpaid at $30K-$40K), not paying on loans due to financial hardship. During this year, ANOTHER $10,757 will accrue in interest alone, so by the time you start paying on your loans, your total after taking out $150K in loans is now:
• $190,030, with interest accruing at $950/month JUST TO BREAK EVEN – not even paying down a cent of your loan balance!
• If you pay $1500/month ($550 over monthly interest accrual), it will still take 29 years to pay off, and most early career psychologists don’t make a ton of money starting out, so $1500/month payments can mean eating peanut butter and jelly and living in a studio apartment for years after getting your doctorate.

I just felt my stomach drop into the depths of hell. I think that I've decided it would be best for me to postpone this cycle and retry next year in the hopes of being accepted into a funded/partially funded program.

If possible, could you also elaborate your thoughts on where you think I stack up among the competition?
3.45 cum GPA (lower grades in first two years), 3.687 Psych (all As in courses related to clinical psych such as abnormal psych, statistics, research methods, etc)...

GRE: V(58th) Q(46th) AW(82nd) percentile(s). Plan on studying hard and taking it at least twice for the upcoming 2021-2022 cycle.

One publication or manuscript and some unpublished 2nd author group research as well. TA for research lab for one year.

I might also add for what it might be worth. I work currently as a Community Based Rehabilitative Service worker (CBRS) so I have some exposure in the mental health field and also am a certified Pharmacy Technician (so I have a pretty solid understanding of the use of SSRIs SSNRIs) which I believe is important to know extensively about in any field of psychology. Severed voluntarily for two years in Seoul, South Korea in my early twenties (which hopefully is a positive extracurricular achievement that could be worth a small bit).

Lastly, my letters of recommendation come from two Clinical Psychologists at my former university and my head Pharmacist.

 

[foreverbull]

I just felt my stomach drop into the depths of hell. I think that I've decided it would be best for me to postpone this cycle and retry next year in the hopes of being accepted into a funded/partially funded program.

If possible, could you also elaborate your thoughts on where you think I stack up among the competition?
3.45 cum GPA (lower grades in first two years), 3.687 Psych (all As in courses related to clinical psych such as abnormal psych, statistics, research methods, etc)...

GRE: V(58th) Q(46th) AW(82nd) percentile(s). Plan on studying hard and taking it at least twice for the upcoming 2021-2022 cycle.

One publication or manuscript and some unpublished 2nd author group research as well. TA for research lab for one year.

I might also add for what it might be worth. I work currently as a Community Based Rehabilitative Service worker (CBRS) so I have some exposure in the mental health field and also am a certified Pharmacy Technician (so I have a pretty solid understanding of the use of SSRIs SSNRIs) which I believe is important to know extensively about in any field of psychology. Severed voluntarily for two years in Seoul, South Korea in my early twenties (which hopefully is a positive extracurricular achievement that could be worth a small bit).

Lastly, my letters of recommendation come from two Clinical Psychologists at my former university and my head Pharmacist.

I think you have some good qualifications and great experiences here, but many students I've talked to have talked about the intense competitiveness of programs this past year, similar to the bump in people seeking grad school during the Great Recession in 2008-2010 or so, so this year was more competitive per my understanding than past years.

A manuscript publication looks great and balances out the slightly less impressive overall GPA.

You might want to retake the GRE to bump up the quant and verbal, as someone earlier mentioned.

Clinical programs will weigh research experience far heavier than clinical experience, and counseling psychology programs will take clinical experiences into account a bit more (although they still want to see research too), so that might be something to consider as well.

As for any further recommendations, I'll defer to faculty on this thread who have more experience with selecting grad students.

If you want my document for students prepping for grad school, feel free to PM me!

 

[Mason_Ost]

I think you have some good qualifications and great experiences here, but many students I've talked to have talked about the intense competitiveness of programs this past year, similar to the bump in people seeking grad school during the Great Recession in 2008-2010 or so, so this year was more competitive per my understanding than past years.

A manuscript publication looks great and balances out the slightly less impressive overall GPA.

You might want to retake the GRE to bump up the quant and verbal, as someone earlier mentioned.

Clinical programs will weigh research experience far heavier than clinical experience, and counseling psychology programs will take clinical experiences into account a bit more (although they still want to see research too), so that might be something to consider as well.

As for any further recommendations, I'll defer to faculty on this thread who have more experience with selecting grad students.

If you want my document for students prepping for grad school, feel free to PM me!

Wow thank you so much. I really appreciate the advice and information you've provided me with. I do think the wave of applicants this last cycle definitely made things much more difficult overall.

I may also just add, thay my cum GPA is primarily low because of two courses I took during a difficult semester (went through a divorce) which tanked my GPA. Without those occurrences I calculated that I would've been more around a cum of a 3.6 or 3.7. I did not include thay info in my personal statement this year, but maybe it would be beneficial information for a potential advising committee to know.

I will definitely PM you, and thank you again!

 

[WisNeuro]

Wow thank you so much. I really appreciate the advice and information you've provided me with. I do think the wave of applicants this last cycle definitely made things much more difficult overall.

I may also just add, thay my cum GPA is primarily low because of two courses I took during a difficult semester (went through a divorce) which tanked my GPA. Without those occurrences I calculated that I would've been more around a cum of a 3.6 or 3.7. I did not include thay info in my personal statement this year, but maybe it would be beneficial information for a potential advising committee to know.

I will definitely PM you, and thank you again!

All depends on how you talk about it. If it's thrown in there without much context, some committees will see it as making an excuse for poor grades. If you can spin it into something about overcoming adversity and showing a good growth arc afterwards, it could play better.

 

[Mason_Ost]

All depends on how you talk about it. If it's thrown in there without much context, some committees will see it as making an excuse for poor grades. If you can spin it into something about overcoming adversity and showing a good growth arc afterwards, it could play better.

Yeah great point. I didn't include it in my application this cycle for precisely that reason. In hindsight, I believe I still could have performed better during that time. But in the moment was side tracked by different priorities. It definitely was a positve growth experience and did in fact put me on a better track overall.

 

[Dazen]

As people have said above, your entire application package matters more than any one statistic. My GPA was in the range of yours, and I was able to get multiple interviews and did not bring it up in my personal statement. I would recommend focusing on improving the other areas of your application you still can control (e.g. GRE, research experience), narrowing in on your intended area of research that you can describe succinctly, and finding faculty who are an excellent match for this research interest.

 

[Mason_Ost]

As people have said above, your entire application package matters more than any one statistic. My GPA was in the range of yours, and I was able to get multiple interviews and did not bring it up in my personal statement. I would recommend focusing on improving the other areas of your application you still can control (e.g. GRE, research experience), narrowing in on your intended area of research that you can describe succinctly, and finding faculty who are an excellent match for this research interest.

Thank you very much, that gives me some peace of mind. I appreciate it a lot!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Wow thank you so much. I really appreciate the advice and information you've provided me with. I do think the wave of applicants this last cycle definitely made things much more difficult overall.

I may also just add, thay my cum GPA is primarily low because of two courses I took during a difficult semester (went through a divorce) which tanked my GPA. Without those occurrences I calculated that I would've been more around a cum of a 3.6 or 3.7. I did not include thay info in my personal statement this year, but maybe it would be beneficial information for a potential advising committee to know.

I will definitely PM you, and thank you again!

As folks above have said, including that information could be hit-or-miss. I personally probably would abstain, unless there were other, substantive, non-GPA factors that were also influenced and important to your personal statement (e.g., personal growth). Like Dazen, my cumulative GPA was similar to yours (mid-3.4) and I was able to get multiple interviews. I had a better GRE overall (Q was similar, V was I think 98th %, and AW or whatever it was called back then was a 6) but much less research productivity (no pubs or posters, 2-3 years RAing across 2 labs). Like Dazen said, the biggest factors will be continuing to get research experience if you're able, increasing your GRE, and finding convincing ways to express your interest and fit with the programs to which you (broadly) apply.

 

[Mason_Ost]

As folks above have said, including that information could be hit-or-miss. I personally probably would abstain, unless there were other, substantive, non-GPA factors that were also influenced and important to your personal statement (e.g., personal growth). Like Dazen, my cumulative GPA was similar to yours (mid-3.4) and I was able to get multiple interviews. I had a better GRE overall (Q was similar, V was I think 98th %, and AW or whatever it was called back then was a 6) but much less research productivity (no pubs or posters, 2-3 years RAing across 2 labs). Like Dazen said, the biggest factors will be continuing to get research experience if you're able, increasing your GRE, and finding convincing ways to express your interest and fit with the programs to which you (broadly) apply.

Thank you. I feel it would be best to leave that portion out of my statement for the next cycle.

Can you help me understand how you were able to score so highly on the verbal portion of the GRE? I never studied for the GRE prior to taking it the first time. I am planning on probably buying MAGOOSH's 3 month or so plan to help me becoming more acquainted with what I'll need to know to increase my scores.

Lastly, besides the manuscript I am working on. How else am I to get research experience? Research opportunities are practically non-existent where I live unless I picked up and moved to a new location (if an opportunity was available/worth it).

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Thank you. I feel it would be best to leave that portion out of my statement for the next cycle.

Can you help me understand how you were able to score so highly on the verbal portion of the GRE? I never studied for the GRE prior to taking it the first time. I am planning on probably buying MAGOOSH's 3 month or so plan to help me becoming more acquainted with what I'll need to know to increase my scores.

Lastly, besides the manuscript I am working on. How else am I to get research experience? Research opportunities are practically non-existent where I live unless I picked up and moved to a new location (if an opportunity was available/worth it).

Unfortunately, I don't know how much help I can be on tips for GRE verbal; it's just something I've always tested relatively well in. My primary study method was to learn, via brute force, as many words as possible for the analogies. I essentially spent 2 or 3 months memorizing and rehearsing and re-memorizing lists of GRE words at the backs of different publisher's study manuals, which definitely impacted my score.

If there aren't many/any research opportunities where you are now, you may not have the ability to really increase your research experience, although others may have ideas. This may be a limiting factor, unfortunately. But I would say completing any manuscript in process would probably be a significant boon. And in today's world of distance learning, maybe one of your prior labs or a relatively nearby university would be willing to allow you to somehow distance work, and only require that you physically show up on rare occasion? It'd be tough for any labs running in-person experiments, but maybe there are folks focusing mostly or exclusively on internet- and other distance-based methodologies.

 

[Mason_Ost]

Unfortunately, I don't know how much help I can be on tips for GRE verbal; it's just something I've always tested relatively well in. My primary study method was to learn, via brute force, as many words as possible for the analogies. I essentially spent 2 or 3 months memorizing and rehearsing and re-memorizing lists of GRE words at the backs of different publisher's study manuals, which definitely impacted my score.

If there aren't many/any research opportunities where you are now, you may not have the ability to really increase your research experience, although others may have ideas. This may be a limiting factor, unfortunately. But I would say completing any manuscript in process would probably be a significant boon. And in today's world of distance learning, maybe one of your prior labs or a relatively nearby university would be willing to allow you to somehow distance work, and only require that you physically show up on rare occasion? It'd be tough for any labs running in-person experiments, but maybe there are folks focusing mostly or exclusively on internet- and other distance-based methodologies.

Thank you for the insight for the GRE. I think that is essentially what I plan on doing myself to hopefully improve my score. Also, that's a really good idea to look into online work if that is being conducted somewhere. I will 100% check that out, thank you very much for your advice!

 

[Mason_Ost]

Hey everyone,

I was hoping I could receive a little more advice on my current status as a potential applicant to a clinical psych program.

Specifically about my GPA - it has been worrying my a lot lately and I was hoping for my insight.

My cum GPA was a 3.402 / psych GPA 3.687.

Looking through my transcript. The only reason my cum GPA is below a 3.5 is because of two different algebra courses that I took which I suffered from. I received an A- in statistics and A's in my research courses.

How much will this effect my chance of acceptance? I'm super worried this is just too low below average acceptance rates (3.7+). Strictly speaking about GPA, what do you guys think?

 

[Temperance]

Your GPA should not be a problem, especially if you've performed well in your research and statistics courses. The admissions statistics that you are seeing are averages, so there are people matriculating with lower GPAs.