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I mentioned it earlier in the game.....when he was being confrontational. I'm not sure your point here. I've not mentioned it in other games prior.
I thought you have mentioned it before, which means after that game and all future games, trying to use that as a lis tell would be limited because he would likely have tried to compensate for the tell
 
I thought you have mentioned it before, which means after that game and all future games, trying to use that as a lis tell would be limited because he would likely have tried to compensate for the tell

I don't recall having ever mentioned it before this game. And I don't really use it as a "tell" because it is a bit more complex than just confrontational vs. not..... also has a bit to do with game theme, who is modding the game, how involved he's been, etc. He's been very non-confrontational in some games recently and been a villager, but he also wasn't as dedicated in those games....

I mean, if I'm wrong then :eggface:
But overall I'm not getting the wolfy vibes from him because of the way he's acting. Whereas everyone else is seeing the way he's acting as suspicious. I just know he acts that way as a villager when he's actually been really active and interested in the game.
 
I don't recall having ever mentioned it before this game. And I don't really use it as a "tell" because it is a bit more complex than just confrontational vs. not..... also has a bit to do with game theme, who is modding the game, how involved he's been, etc. He's been very non-confrontational in some games recently and been a villager, but he also wasn't as dedicated in those games....

I mean, if I'm wrong then :eggface:
But overall I'm not getting the wolfy vibes from him because of the way he's acting. Whereas everyone else is seeing the way he's acting as suspicious. I just know he acts that way as a villager when he's actually been really active and interested in the game.
That's fine, thanks for clarifying.
 
I don't recall having ever mentioned it before this game. And I don't really use it as a "tell" because it is a bit more complex than just confrontational vs. not..... also has a bit to do with game theme, who is modding the game, how involved he's been, etc. He's been very non-confrontational in some games recently and been a villager, but he also wasn't as dedicated in those games....

I mean, if I'm wrong then :eggface:
But overall I'm not getting the wolfy vibes from him because of the way he's acting. Whereas everyone else is seeing the way he's acting as suspicious. I just know he acts that way as a villager when he's actually been really active and interested in the game.
There are definitely several games I can recall where he was very argumentative and defensive as a wolf. Those are the times that stick out in my head and help solidify my vote. My original suspicions of him had to do with the weird vote one day where he didn't agree with plurality but then put a vote in that put us closer to plurality. If his defense of that move was the need to "get a vote in" that just seems silly. You don't need to get a vote in on some one that is clearly going down. It's better for the villagers to hold off on reaching plurality and actually talk, which is the whole point of the theme of this game, right?
 
Ack, sorry, busy weekend. I can see where a lot of suspicions on LIS are coming from, but I'm not putting in a lynch vote until I have time to review (and also cuz I don't wanna push it closer to plurality).
I'm still not entirely sure about teep or BBC but I agree that there is probably a veteran wolf and would rather find them first.
 
There are definitely several games I can recall where he was very argumentative and defensive as a wolf. Those are the times that stick out in my head and help solidify my vote. My original suspicions of him had to do with the weird vote one day where he didn't agree with plurality but then put a vote in that put us closer to plurality. If his defense of that move was the need to "get a vote in" that just seems silly. You don't need to get a vote in on some one that is clearly going down. It's better for the villagers to hold off on reaching plurality and actually talk, which is the whole point of the theme of this game, right?

I don't recall this vote, but I could have missed it. Please quote or post the page number for me and I will look at it again.

The rest of what you stated, if that is what you feel, fine, but that really hasn't been near as much my experience playing with him. And I'm not saying he can't get defensive as a wolf, it is just different... I dunno, hard for me to really explain it well. It is a mix of feeling and having played with him for way too many years.
 
I don't recall this vote, but I could have missed it. Please quote or post the page number for me and I will look at it again.

The rest of what you stated, if that is what you feel, fine, but that really hasn't been near as much my experience playing with him. And I'm not saying he can't get defensive as a wolf, it is just different... I dunno, hard for me to really explain it well. It is a mix of feeling and having played with him for way too many years.

I totally get your feels. I was just explaining why my feels are different based on my memories. 🙂 It could really be N<3 here, but those are the memories that stick out most in my mind.

Official lynch tally:
teep 3
(meathead, am, rockygenny)
lotf (LIS, AB)
AM 8 (rojo, zen, 1dog, lotf, dvmd, guis, pbc, bbc)
1dog 1 (SOV)

14/24 votes
8/24 minimums met

MOD NOTE: SoV will be taking over for RM

YOU ARE 5 VOTES AWAY FROM MAJORITY/PLURALITY

1) As a wolf, I pretty much ignore what my pack says and I vote for who I would vote for normally. I mean, within reason. I don't lead some tirade against another wolf, but I try really hard to just play the game straight up and vote how I otherwise would. Which definitely means voting for other wolves. So I totally agree.

2) I didn't vote for STL either. Same reason - I cast a vote, left, and then wham-o, he got plurality bandwagoned. I have to admit that in a stretch game like this, I am not a fan of plurality.

Finally:

unlynch LoTF ... I still feel her comment was sketchy, but I'll defer to the more-than-one person who have said it's her typical style.

lynch AM

Quotes from page 19-20 with bolding for emphasis, during the AM lynch. I just thought the comment about not liking plurality and then unlynching one person and lynching the bandwagoned person seems fishy. Before his change of vote at least one other person added a vote for AM.
 
Quotes from page 19-20 with bolding for emphasis, during the AM lynch. I just thought the comment about not liking plurality and then unlynching one person and lynching the bandwagoned person seems fishy. Before his change of vote at least one other person added a vote for AM.

Yeah, I agree that is odd, but not convinced it is wolfy.... did he ever explain it?

Sorry, this has been a 50+ hour work week so keeping up hasn't been easy and I might be missing things that were already discussed/mentioned. Sorry if I am repeating past things that were already discussed.
 
1. DVMD
2. LotF
3. vetmedhead - tracker
4. kaydubs
5. Teep
6. Jilary
7. Animal Midwife - villager
8. Filly Bay - Protector
9. Katashark - villager
10. Rocky - villager
11. Hayley - villager
12. SandstormDVM - villager

13. PrincessButterCup
14. STL - wolf seer
15. Zensing
16. LeTitsNow
17. morninqlory - villager
18. Guis
19. ResoluteMike/SOV
20. BBC
21. genny
22. BSC
23. rojo
24. WTF - village seer
25. Diva - villager

26. 1dogg
27. sheltermed/WZ
28. AlphaBeta<3 - wolf
Not to rain on everyone's parade, but out of the dead,
Deva was a likely villager assassin kill
Kata and MQ were modkilled
hayley, STL, AM, AB3, and rocky were lynched by us.

This leaves the wolfkills as
Sandstorm, vanillager who posted before dyachei announced before vanillagers
WTF, villager seer
VMH, villager tracker
FB, villager protector
And now guis, for whatever reason.

I don't see a pattern of wolves killing new players; I see a pattern of wolves killing power roles that happened to mostly go to newer players. At this point, I agree that there is likely at least one veteran wolf, but that's because of the current veteran:newer player ratio. I'm not sure it's correct to say that wolves are deliberately leaving veterans alive, so I wouldn't assume the wolves left are mostly veterans based on kill pattern.
 
Yeah, I agree that is odd, but not convinced it is wolfy.... did he ever explain it?

Sorry, this has been a 50+ hour work week so keeping up hasn't been easy and I might be missing things that were already discussed/mentioned. Sorry if I am repeating past things that were already discussed.
He claims in the post below that he explained his vote, but I don't see where that happened. Maybe someone else sees it? Here is a link to page 20 for your convenience.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...gy-ww-sign-up-and-game-thread.1206422/page-20

I explained why I did it. And as far as the "no defense" ... just because you like to let people defend - I don't really give a rat's ass. If you want to defend - be around to defend. If you aren't around (either because you're lazy or just genuinely busy), tough luck, don't whine, play the next game. If I came back to find myself bandwagoned and unable to defend I'd gripe about in stars, but I wouldn't be serious because hey - it would be my fault I wasn't around.

I've never been a big fan of worrying about someone defending. There was plenty of time for AM to check in.
 
Yeah, I agree that is odd, but not convinced it is wolfy.... did he ever explain it?

Sorry, this has been a 50+ hour work week so keeping up hasn't been easy and I might be missing things that were already discussed/mentioned. Sorry if I am repeating past things that were already discussed.
I'll leave it up to @LetItSnow if he wants to respond. From what I remember, LIS said that we shouldn't be afraid to close early because of majority but instead should own our suspicions and lynch. Otherwise, wolves could use AFK sympathy to dodge a lynch.

Here's the quote in question
Yeah, I agree that is odd, but not convinced it is wolfy.... did he ever explain it?

Sorry, this has been a 50+ hour work week so keeping up hasn't been easy and I might be missing things that were already discussed/mentioned. Sorry if I am repeating past things that were already discussed.
(A little more follow-up: Part of my couldn't-care-less-about-defending is the fact that a LOT LOT LOT of players seem to take that really seriously. And I have totally abused that as a wolf. See a lynch start against you? Just go radio silent. For the last two years that's given you a relatively high probability of someone jumping in to say "Awwww guys.... we can't lynch him! He hasn't had a chance to defend!" as long as you aren't being lynched over outright seer results or something.)
 
I'll leave it up to @LetItSnow if he wants to respond. From what I remember, LIS said that we shouldn't be afraid to close early because of majority but instead should own our suspicions and lynch. Otherwise, wolves could use AFK sympathy to dodge a lynch.

Here's the quote in question
Ok.... meant the first quote to be the one that Jilary posted. Missed it since my computer temporarily decided to bring up the battery settings menu whenever I tried to press enter.
 
Ok.... meant the first quote to be the one that Jilary posted. Missed it since my computer temporarily decided to bring up the battery settings menu whenever I tried to press enter.
First quote out of the two at the bottom of my post, not DVMD's quote at the very top of my post.
 
Just as an aside, these are the people who voted for AM after the mod announcement about plurality. They are listed in order:

VMH - Dead tracker
MQ - Mod killed villager
AB <-- A wolf
LIS
KayDubs
FB - Dead protector

Zen actually unlynched AM in order to help defer plurality, but it was too late.
 
Just as an aside, these are the people who voted for AM after the mod announcement about plurality. They are listed in order:

VMH - Dead tracker
MQ - Mod killed villager
AB <-- A wolf
LIS
KayDubs
FB - Dead protector

Zen actually unlynched AM in order to help defer plurality, but it was too late.

And at the point Dy made the annoucnement, we were 5 away from plurality, right? So FB and KayDubs' posts didn't even matter.
 
I'll leave it up to @LetItSnow if he wants to respond. From what I remember, LIS said that we shouldn't be afraid to close early because of majority but instead should own our suspicions and lynch. Otherwise, wolves could use AFK sympathy to dodge a lynch.

Here's the quote in question
I felt that was more in response to the fact that I mentioned AM didn't come on to defend. I'm less concerned with that and more concerned with the early ending of a lynch cycle, which isn't helpful to villagers IMO.
 
Not to rain on everyone's parade, but out of the dead,
Deva was a likely villager assassin kill
Kata and MQ were modkilled
hayley, STL, AM, AB3, and rocky were lynched by us.

This leaves the wolfkills as
Sandstorm, vanillager who posted before dyachei announced before vanillagers
WTF, villager seer
VMH, villager tracker
FB, villager protector
And now guis, for whatever reason.

I don't see a pattern of wolves killing new players; I see a pattern of wolves killing power roles that happened to mostly go to newer players. At this point, I agree that there is likely at least one veteran wolf, but that's because of the current veteran:newer player ratio. I'm not sure it's correct to say that wolves are deliberately leaving veterans alive, so I wouldn't assume the wolves left are mostly veterans based on kill pattern.

But were all the power kills dumb luck or not? WTF outed herself on the thread, someone thought VMH had as well, but I don't remember seeing anything from them claiming a role, either intentionally or not. Was FB outed?
 
I felt that was more in response to the fact that I mentioned AM didn't come on to defend. I'm less concerned with that and more concerned with the early ending of a lynch cycle, which isn't helpful to villagers IMO.

Personally, I don't like plurality either. However, if everyone is having suspicions on a particular person and the votes are trending that way, if the person doesn't come around to say anything, the vote isn't going to change (usually, unless someone has info on the person indicating they aren't a wolf). The AM plurality didn't happen quickly or early on in lynch, she had 24 hours (IIRC) to have come on to defend herself and didn't. That discussion that day was also stagnated a bit (again, if I am remembering correctly). I would rather we don't hit a plurality as the longer the lynch remains open, the more chance for discussion, however a stagnated discussion like that day is also very unhelpful to the villagers... I guess I don't see a giant difference in an "early" lynch end and a stagnating discussion.

Though I would not suggest we all vote to plurality if a discussion begins to fizzle out.... because it can pick up later on.

I feel like I was just rambling above..... oh well...

For now, sticking with my current lynch vote.
 
But were all the power kills dumb luck or not? WTF outed herself on the thread, someone thought VMH had as well, but I don't remember seeing anything from them claiming a role, either intentionally or not. Was FB outed?
I speculated about this earlier. Let me go back and find the FB posts that make me think the wolves figured her out.
 
I agree that STL was confident in being able to kill WTF but I don't think it's because we have a wolf protector. I enjoyed your game where the roles were randomly assigned separately from affiliation but I don't think that's what we're dealing with in a basics game.
Looking at Dy's championship game - maybe we have a wolf strongman?
"The Strongman modifier makes killing actions cut through all roleblocking and protection, including factional kills."

Maybe that's why STL claimed they knew the protector and would block them. He figured once the protector's action failed they would assume the wolves knew who they were and would out themselves on the thread?

There's a few others like jailkeeper (prevents any action good or bad on a player), ninja (can't be seered/tracked) and a few others.
10-post limit and 36/12 cycle reminds me of the Mafia Universe games, as I've said before. Nice catch on the strongman role!

Overall, I still think wolf block on protector is more likely. I don't think the strongman-type role is common on our SDN games, so I'm not sure if that would be considered a "basic" role. The Mafia Universe connection does raise the probability, though.
I kind of agree, but I almost hope there is a strongman role.
FB liked the posts by Zen and Jilary. If there actually is a strongman role, I would think it would make the wolves take notice that FB suggested it for this game, and suggested it as the reason why WTF was killed so easily.
 
This leaves the wolfkills as
Sandstorm, vanillager who posted before dyachei announced before vanillagers
WTF, villager seer
VMH, villager tracker
FB, villager protector
And now guis, for whatever reason.

Guis seemed pretty villagery, and there was some speculation based off one of her posts about her being able to PM. That's my guess for why she was picked.
 
FB liked the posts by Zen and Jilary. If there actually is a strongman role, I would think it would make the wolves take notice that FB suggested it for this game, and suggested it as the reason why WTF was killed so easily.
It wouldn't even have to be from the likes, her own post would have been signal enough that she may have known there was a strongman. If it was just the likes it would make me suspicious of the people who made the posts (most likely to notice the likes) but since she made that post on her own...was her post before or after the others?
 
It wouldn't even have to be from the likes, her own post would have been signal enough that she may have known there was a strongman. If it was just the likes it would make me suspicious of the people who made the posts (most likely to notice the likes) but since she made that post on her own...was her post before or after the others?
I believe FBs post was the first to mention a strongman.
 
I looked it up for you. You selectively quoted only my last sentence neglecting everything else I said in the post and trying to make a much bigger deal out of that comment then I think it warrants... It was meant to indicate I wasn't feeling a waffle just on someone else's feels

I'm hardly "making a big deal out of it". I'm going down, so I'm pointing out what I see as odd or sketchy things.

Isn't that precisely what everyone ELSE (including you) is doing? Yet you're only calling ME out for it.

You brought up 'evidence' in a game where you know none is going to come out. That's just weird. I wasn't "selectively quoting" to misconstrue you - I was selectively quoting because that's the part that was weird. Nothing odd about that. You're seriously overreacting. Is it because you were caught?
 
I thought you have mentioned it before, which means after that game and all future games, trying to use that as a lis tell would be limited because he would likely have tried to compensate for the tell

You're giving me WAY too much credit. I just play for the moment. Sometimes I'm bitchy, sometimes I'm clever, sometimes I'm snarky. The amusing part is watching people focus on one 'mood' and decide that it must mean something. It never, ever does.
 
There are definitely several games I can recall where he was very argumentative and defensive as a wolf. Those are the times that stick out in my head and help solidify my vote. My original suspicions of him had to do with the weird vote one day where he didn't agree with plurality but then put a vote in that put us closer to plurality. If his defense of that move was the need to "get a vote in" that just seems silly. You don't need to get a vote in on some one that is clearly going down. It's better for the villagers to hold off on reaching plurality and actually talk, which is the whole point of the theme of this game, right?

Not if you're about to head off for a 15-hour work shift and know that you won't be back on. Sure, this game has extended days, but .... some of us work very long shifts and get (literally) zero down time on many/most of them. I mean, I struggle to find time to hit the head when I'm working.
 
Quotes from page 19-20 with bolding for emphasis, during the AM lynch. I just thought the comment about not liking plurality and then unlynching one person and lynching the bandwagoned person seems fishy. Before his change of vote at least one other person added a vote for AM.

I'm not a fan of plurality in a game like this because of it ending days early and getting things off-schedule. But in that case, it seemed pretty clear that the vote was moving that way, wasn't going to change, and I wasn't going to be around for the rest of the day.

*shrug*

Absolutes never work in WW. I can't be "not in favor" of a game mechanic - doesn't mean I'm not going to play into it sometimes.
 
I'm hardly "making a big deal out of it". I'm going down, so I'm pointing out what I see as odd or sketchy things.

Isn't that precisely what everyone ELSE (including you) is doing? Yet you're only calling ME out for it.

You brought up 'evidence' in a game where you know none is going to come out. That's just weird. I wasn't "selectively quoting" to misconstrue you - I was selectively quoting because that's the part that was weird. Nothing odd about that. You're seriously overreacting. Is it because you were caught?
Nope, I'm a villager so nothing to get caught about.
 
I've also noticed this... but wasn't sure how much this:


Has resulted in her lacking contribution to the thread.

Yeah. That's been on my mind, too. Except that her lack of meaningful contribution started prior to the migraine. I kinda feel like the migraine was thrown out there just to buy yet more time to not contribute. (I don't doubt that it was a real migraine, just..... feels like the entire game Kaydubs has been coasting without <really> getting involved.)
 
LIS did the same thing earlier this game:


Given the very limited number of games I've played, I will say that LIS has been more confrontational this game than the others I've seen. But I suppose that could just be due to the post minimum.

Yay. Thanks for digging up my earlier list, Genny. (BBC, Rojo, Deva, Jilary, and SOV).

Deva obviously died a villager, leaving BBC, Rojo, Jilary, and SOV. Obviously, add Kaydubs to the list.

If it were me, I'd start by lynching Jilary and Kaydubs. After that ... not sure.

And I still wish we had lynched LoTF earlier. But I've given that up.
 
Then why are you overreacting? You're smart enough to understand that the part of your post I singled out is a pretty reasonable thing to single out in this game. People have been nitpicking far less in posts.
I disagree that my posts have been an overreaction. We've both said our peace about it and aren't getting anywhere with this argument, so :shrug:
 
Yay. Thanks for digging up my earlier list, Genny. (BBC, Rojo, Deva, Jilary, and SOV).

Deva obviously died a villager, leaving BBC, Rojo, Jilary, and SOV. Obviously, add Kaydubs to the list.

If it were me, I'd start by lynching Jilary and Kaydubs. After that ... not sure.

And I still wish we had lynched LoTF earlier. But I've given that up.
Sure, people can think me a convert option, but only the most paranoid of people should think me a possibility as an original wolf... You've even said so yourself earlier iirc
 
Not if you're about to head off for a 15-hour work shift and know that you won't be back on. Sure, this game has extended days, but .... some of us work very long shifts and get (literally) zero down time on many/most of them. I mean, I struggle to find time to hit the head when I'm working.
I guess my feeling is that AM was getting lynched with or without your vote. I work long hours too and I also often don't have a single moment to catch up during that time, so I understand. But I think it would have been better to hold off on your vote and allow discussion instead of pushing plurality. I don't believe conversation was stagnant that morning. I had intended to come back and make some comments as soon as I could, but when I came back the lynch was closed and the thread locked for the night.

I find it odd that the only reasons people have listed for me being shady have been 1) being suspicious of you for the reasons I gave above 2) asking for someone to point out specifically where AB was shady (I had been full on ignoring her, so I didn't see it) and 3) randomness with no reason given. At least I've listed my reasons for being suspiscious of you and I feel my reasons are valid and in favor of the village. I can't see a wolf campaigning to stop plurality or asking for specifics on shadiness of a now confirmed wolf.
 
I find this enthusiasm hard to buy, since I basically said the same idea earlier (though much abbreviated) in a post where I called you wolfy. You did respond to that post, so I'm assuming you read it then too.

lynch jilary
I haven't hid my enthusiasm for the idea of a strongman. I actually just recently posted that I thought it was less likely since FB died because I didn't remember who posted about it in the first place.

I guess I forget the post you are referring to though. If you quote it, I'd like to see it again. I think if I were a wolf and knew there was a strongman, I'd have avoided that topic all together.
 
I find it interesting that Jilary managed to avoid voting for both STL and AB. She responded when WTF dropped that bomb, but never put a vote in. And in the AB vs. 1dog lynch, she voted for LIS. She had a half-hearted defense of AB, which I can't really fault her for because I felt the same. But then she says things like these that make me wonder:


And then I was trying to figure out how the wolves got so many villagers with roles killed so quickly. So my guess is that STL lied about knowing who the protector is, since FB wasn't killed until N4. STL seered someone N1, and my guess is that was vetmedhead, which is why she was killed N3 after WTF but before FB. So how did the wolves figure out that FB was the protector? FB posted about the strongman role, and liked a couple of Jilary's posts on the subject. I suppose any wolf could observe that and make an educated guess, since the wolves would know about that role too. But it would really throw up a flag if Jilary was a wolf, and saw those posts of hers being liked by FB.

So those are my thoughts on Jilary. Anyone else think the same way?

Wolves jump on bandwagons of other wolves, it's just the right thing to do. I didn't vote to lynch STL right away because I wanted some discussion first before reaching plurality (something I've said many times in this game). I think more often than not, plurality helps wolves, not villagers. The over paranoid WWer in me also wasn't 100% sure I wanted to believe WTF when she first outed herself. I thought she would have found a more subtle way of lynching STL if she were the seer. I thought it was possible that she was a wolf and just wanted us to lynch our seer to ensure his death to avoid worrying about the protector. In retrospect that would have been a stupid wolf move. Also, after I made my post reacting to WTF's post, I didn't come back on the thread because I was at my high school reunion and quite intoxicated.

I suspect we don't have any more villagers with roles, so it that likely is no longer playing into who the wolves kill. I also don't believe that posting prior to dy's vanillager post means much. I almost posted prior to that because I happened to be online, but I didn't have anything to say yet.

P.S. I'm a vanillager if that's not already obvious. So I didn't receive a mod pm alerting me that the game has started, and I still happened to be around at that time.
Nevermind! Found it. I guess I was focusing on the first part of your post. I honestly didn't even consider the second part. At that point I just assumed that STL really did seer FB and didn't give any credit to your theory because you didn't specifically say FB was the first to post about the strongman role and I had forgotten that until you posted the quote. I honestly didn't think anything of FB liking my posts either. Kdubs has liked a bunch of my posts too. None of that really catches my eye.
 
Nevermind! Found it. I guess I was focusing on the first part of your post. I honestly didn't even consider the second part. At that point I just assumed that STL really did seer FB and didn't give any credit to your theory because you didn't specifically say FB was the first to post about the strongman role and I had forgotten that until you posted the quote. I honestly didn't think anything of FB liking my posts either. Kdubs has liked a bunch of my posts too. None of that really catches my eye.
I think kaydubs has liked 20 of my posts in the past two days. I think she's delirious due to her headaches, or you guys just don't realize sheer brilliance like she has
 
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