Back to basics WW again

[Abnerrs]

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This early in the game, I feel like anyone saying they have a role should be enough...doesn't mean we can't/won't come back to said individual later...

I just think it was unwise

 

[LyraGardenia]

I realize we have a good amount of time left before lynch close, but currently there are three people (I think) below the required post count. I would really rather not lose that many people the first day of the game. I'll give them a little longer before I tag them. I don't want to be obnoxious buuuuut...

Hopefully dy gives people a day to get in the swing of things, I know several people were late realizing the game had started since she didn't tag everyone.

 

[awesomenessity]

I realize we have a good amount of time left before lynch close, but currently there are three people (I think) below the required post count. I would really rather not lose that many people the first day of the game. I'll give them a little longer before I tag them. I don't want to be obnoxious buuuuut...

Is it just @LetItSnow who hasn't voted yet? Or checked in?

 

[SummerTheLynx]

The issue I am having is the damage has already been done. If they have a strongman, they will likely use it on her today regardless. If they don't, they are taking a huge risk if they try an attempt on her, as she will likely be protected. The alternative is that she is lying about having a villager role, and instead has a wolf role. I guess I am not seeing the benefit of keeping the actual name of the role secret when the damage has already been done.

 

[SummerTheLynx]

And I want people to comment and discuss on this, as I am actually asking.

 

[deleted806434]

Is it just @LetItSnow who hasn't voted yet? Or checked in?

Yeah he's the only one that hasn't posted at all, but there's a couple that have but just haven't posted enough. But Lyra's probably right that dy might just give them a warning today. I'm not really sure

 

[DVMDream]

The issue I am having is the damage has already been done. If they have a strongman, they will likely use it on her today regardless. If they don't, they are taking a huge risk if they try an attempt on her, as she will likely be protected. The alternative is that she is lying about having a villager role, and instead has a wolf role. I guess I am not seeing the benefit of keeping the actual name of the role secret when the damage has already been done.

I do agree, I find it odd when people will claim they have a role or even reveal all abilities but not a name behind it. I've found a few wolves this way. I'm trying to think of a good reason not to reveal and can only come up with one.... but it'd be odd for all those events to line up and for her to have that role.

 

[Trilt]

Would have at least put up a little bit of a fight before revealing you had a role. That was dumb imo. I honestly am a little more suspicious of cdo after that than I was before.

 

[Abnerrs]

The issue I am having is the damage has already been done. If they have a strongman, they will likely use it on her today regardless. If they don't, they are taking a huge risk if they try an attempt on her, as she will likely be protected. The alternative is that she is lying about having a villager role, and instead has a wolf role. I guess I am not seeing the benefit of keeping the actual name of the role secret when the damage has already been done.

I agree mostly. Like you said there's a target on her back. But this way, if she IS villager, there is a tiny bit of at least they don't know which one

 

[finnickthedog]

I'm probably below the required post count as of right now. My bad.

I've been mulling over some of these posts and I'm kind of inclined to agree with STL. Unless there's a risk that just isn't occurring to me, I don't see any further damage being done by outing what the role is. Would have been nice if she hadn't outed herself as having a role in the first place... but we're past that.

 

[SnowshoeDog143]

The issue I am having is the damage has already been done. If they have a strongman, they will likely use it on her today regardless. If they don't, they are taking a huge risk if they try an attempt on her, as she will likely be protected. The alternative is that she is lying about having a villager role, and instead has a wolf role. I guess I am not seeing the benefit of keeping the actual name of the role secret when the damage has already been done.

I now agree with STL on this issue after thinking about it. I mean if she doesn't reveal and she is a villager she will either be killed by strongman tonight or role seered (if the wolves have either of those abilities) tonight and killed the next night. I can't see a role in this game that a wolf won't want to get rid of, so at least if she reveals we can confirm she's not a wolf just saying she's important and then try our best to protect her tonight. But there's a good chance she's going down. Unless the wolves leave her alive to mess with us. Just the babbling of my thought process here.

 

[awesomenessity]

Would have at least put up a little bit of a fight before revealing you had a role. That was dumb imo. I honestly am a little more suspicious of cdo after that than I was before.

I think most of the original lynch votes came from Ski claiming she was being sketchy for not checking in when she was able to, which she did defend rather valiantly. But I agree, would have thought there'd have been more argument than just "I have a role"

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Would have at least put up a little bit of a fight before revealing you had a role. That was dumb imo. I honestly am a little more suspicious of cdo after that than I was before.

Maybe just a bad move on her part...but maybe also kinda wolfy...agreed on being suspicious

 

[Skimble]

Okay let's use my example from last game, day 3 I had named every single wolf from there because I saw how people voted on the BBC lynch. People that are caught in the middle of voting en masse, and where they voted en masse is a very good indicator at catching wolves. I am not inclined to think that cdo is a wolf while I am inclined to think that Jilary is one. But even if cdo flips villager, it provides me with solid info.

Jilary, I am not going to answer what your tell is when it works the majority (not every time granted) of the time. I feel like I let it slip in the wolf chat from Pokemon, but you apparently didn't learn.

And Lyra - I hadn't read when I first responded. I had said originally I was going to list roles from my mafbot, found it wasn't in the IRC chat that it was supposed to be, and wanted info from last game. Dubz responded and I posted a quick analysis, while I started reading. When I saw tracker mentioned by trilt, went back and posted the update there (would normally just have edited).

I fill out my spreadsheet when I actually go through, on games like this. That takes time. I don't post every single thing I find on the thread (this would be dumb and make my play obsolete, as people would avoid doing the stupid stuff they do). That's how I get into scenarios where people call idiot savant, where I come up with this random people as wolves out of the blue.

How could I possibly have a "tell" when I've only started a game as a wolf one time (that pokemon game)? To say it works the majority of the time is asinine, because that means it worked the one time in pokemon, but you were also a wolf, so you already knew. I almost jokingly voted to lynch you earlier because of the last basics game, but I decided against it when something came up that I legit thought was weird. You are making me side eye you now though.

I realize we have a good amount of time left before lynch close, but currently there are three people (I think) below the required post count. I would really rather not lose that many people the first day of the game. I'll give them a little longer before I tag them. I don't want to be obnoxious buuuuut...

Dy has given warnings in previous games.

 

[LyraGardenia]

Would have at least put up a little bit of a fight before revealing you had a role. That was dumb imo. I honestly am a little more suspicious of cdo after that than I was before.

I think it was just a noob mistake since in most games everyone has a role name, even vanillagers. But who knows.

 

[Skimble]

I'm also annoyed that cdo revealed she had a role so early. There are very few roles in a sea of vanillagers in basic games, so I would advise others to keep that info to yourself unless absolutely necessary. You don't need to be handing the wolves any info.

 

[SummerTheLynx]

@cdoconn just a heads up that things haven't changed with your "reveal"

Jilary - I specifically told you not to do something in that game, as it screamed irregular for you. If you didn't listen at the time, that's fine, but you will pay for it down the line. You are also going to make me go through my old spreadsheets now - you are saying that you have never been converted to a wolf?

 

[Animal Midwife]

I think it was just a noob mistake since in most games everyone has a role name, even vanillagers. But who knows.

dy said only those role will get a PM.

 

[Animal Midwife]

*those with a role

 

[cdo96]

I think it was just a noob mistake since in most games everyone has a role name, even vanillagers. But who knows.

Yeah. Honestly. In the 2 games I played, even vanillager have role names. So when I said role reveal I meant it as "reveal role name" instead of "reveal the role I actually have". I know dy said that only those with a role will get a PM, but it went over my head with all the crap happening lately

 

[LyraGardenia]

dy said only those role will get a PM.

I'm aware. Just saying it's possible cdo missed that or forgot.

 

[SkiOtter]

I think it was just a noob mistake since in most games everyone has a role name, even vanillagers. But who knows.

Lyra- don't give explanations for people because then they can just piggy back onto what you say and be like "yeah that's what I meant" even if it's not. Could totally be what cdo meant, but it was discussed last game to not answer questions for others because then they can just piggy back on your answer since it was suggested by someone else.

 

[LyraGardenia]

Yeah. Honestly. In the 2 games I played, even vanillager have role names. So when I said role reveal I meant it as "reveal role name" instead of "reveal the role I actually have". I know dy said that only those with a role will get a PM, but it went over my head with all the crap happening lately

Yeah, in this game even revealing role names would give away your ability since it's my understanding that they're pretty stock roles.

 

[Skimble]

@cdoconn just a heads up that things haven't changed with your "reveal"

Jilary - I specifically told you not to do something in that game, as it screamed irregular for you. If you didn't listen at the time, that's fine, but you will pay for it down the line. You are also going to make me go through my old spreadsheets now - you are saying that you have never been converted to a wolf?

I said I have only started a game as a wolf once. I was an auto-convert once in your OitNB game, but I was paired with the conversion detector who called me out the morning after I was converted and I was instantly lynched. I think I was converted one or two other times. Once was necromancers and wolves had pretty much won by the time I got converted. There may have been one other time that I don't remember, but I actually think that it was just those two times.

There was the weird SOV/LIS game where I started wolf but didn't know it, then was rezzed as a mute villager, but I don't think that time counts at all.

 

[LyraGardenia]

Lyra- don't give explanations for people because then they can just piggy back onto what you say and be like "yeah that's what I meant" even if it's not. Could totally be what cdo meant, but it was discussed last game to not answer questions for others because then they can just piggy back on your answer since it was suggested by someone else.

Good point, my bad. 😳

 

[PippyPony]

I can't see a role in this game that a wolf won't want to get rid of, so at least if she reveals we can confirm she's not a wolf just saying she's important and then try our best to protect her tonight.

This is the biggest problem that I see with this situation. If she is a villager with a role, then regardless of how critical/non-critical that role is, it's probably going to tie up the protector for at least a little while. Unless she is one of the high value roles like village seer (who it would likely be worth protecting continually) it's going to be a problem further down the line if/when we get a better sense of who is in need of protection and then someone has to make a choice of which villager role to shield. The same problem exists even if she's the protector -- she would have to protect herself and wouldn't be available to protect others, thus making the role pretty much moot.

I think it was just a noob mistake since in most games everyone has a role name, even vanillagers. But who knows.

She role-revealed/named her role early on in the last game to avoid a lynch, and it turned out she was telling the truth about being vanillager. Probs wouldn't be the worst wolf strategy to try to bank on trust built up in a previous game.

*sigh* both of those things make me want to change my lynch vote. But, it's day 1, I kind of feel like it was a new player mistake, and I don't want to be responsible for losing a villager role this early if she is telling the truth.

 

[KCgophervet]

Offering to role reveal, implying she has a role, was unfortunate. Now I'm conflicted about whether or not she should reveal what role. Hedging and hesitating could be the mark of a wolf trying to come up with something convincing. But revealing gives the wolves information they didn't already have.

Pippy made a good point actually ( intentionally or not) that her claiming a role but not revealing what it is actually creates some wifom confusion for the wolves. Do they try to kill her immediately? Leave her around so it looks suspicious? Lock the protector (if one exists) and have free reign on the rest of the villagers?

Makes me conflicted about whether or not she should reveal. Either way I don't think we should lynch her

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[Glammyre]

Reading quickly before leaving tonight, and unfortunately can't get back on before lynch close 🙁

unlynch cdo, lynch coop

If cdo has a power role, I don't want to lynch her just yet. I do want to hear what it is to get some idea of whether's she's attempting what STL had last game. I'm reading just noob language on raf's part. I'm more bugged about Coopah's post from the start of the day. She defended herself when pressed, but it's something that I'm surprised she didn't login through on her own.

I didn't fully understand what cdo posted after claiming she had a role - is she now saying that she's vanillager? If so, then she's back on my lynch list tomorrow.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Reading quickly before leaving tonight, and unfortunately can't get back on before lynch close 🙁

unlynch cdo, lynch coop

If cdo has a power role, I don't want to lynch her just yet. I do want to hear what it is to get some idea of whether's she's attempting what STL had last game. I'm reading just noob language on raf's part. I'm more bugged about Coopah's post from the start of the day. She defended herself when pressed, but it's something that I'm surprised she didn't login through on her own.

I didn't fully understand what cdo posted after claiming she had a role - is she now saying that she's vanillager? If so, then she's back on my lynch list tomorrow.

What Coopah post are you referring to?

 

[raf2769]

unlynch ally
lynch snowy

I'm still not convinced on the cdo thing.
But I'm intrigued by snowy saying that cdo should wait and not reveal a page back:

Interesting turn of events.. I don't know what role in a basic game you would have and be so willing to give away. I haven't checked the tally, but if you are in the lead it'd probably be best to wait a bit or not reveal and just leave us with the knowledge you have a role and people might switch. I would guess that wolves would rather claim vanilla roles in basic games so they don't get overlapping roles.

and then a little earlier on this page she's turned to wanted cdo to role reveal. Kind of seems to me like a she could be a wolf trying to play villager and convince someone else to not role reveal to keep information hidden at first. And then once STL came out with reasons cdo should role reveal, she started pushing for the reveal, like a wolf that found an ok reason to push for village information.

 

[Coopah]

Reading quickly before leaving tonight, and unfortunately can't get back on before lynch close 🙁

unlynch cdo, lynch coop

If cdo has a power role, I don't want to lynch her just yet. I do want to hear what it is to get some idea of whether's she's attempting what STL had last game. I'm reading just noob language on raf's part. I'm more bugged about Coopah's post from the start of the day. She defended herself when pressed, but it's something that I'm surprised she didn't login through on her own.

I didn't fully understand what cdo posted after claiming she had a role - is she now saying that she's vanillager? If so, then she's back on my lynch list tomorrow.

What do you mean didn't login on my own? I did login on my own, so could you please clarify?

 

[deleted806434]

Unofficial lynch tally:
Serher 1 (cyndia)
Coopah 4 (lyra, finn, ally, zen)
Ally ()
Cyndia ()
Finn 2 (Pippy, AM)
nessy 1 (serher,)
Confusing 1 (nyan)
cdo 6 (ski, WZ, coop, SAR, confusing, STL)
Lyra 1 (Doc-S)
AM 1 (nessy)
LIS 1 (DVMD)
Raf 3 (Trilt, 3m, Abs)
Ski 3 (Jil, cdo Snowshoe)
STL 1 (kc)
snowy 1 (raf)

26/27

Lynch close in ~1 hrs

 

[SnowshoeDog143]

unlynch ally
lynch snowy

I'm still not convinced on the cdo thing.
But I'm intrigued by snowy saying that cdo should wait and not reveal a page back:



and then a little earlier on this page she's turned to wanted cdo to role reveal. Kind of seems to me like a she could be a wolf trying to play villager and convince someone else to not role reveal to keep information hidden at first. And then once STL came out with reasons cdo should role reveal, she started pushing for the reveal, like a wolf that found an ok reason to push for village information.

Ehh my first thought when she said she has a role was "don't reveal so the wolves won't know who you are if you are important"

But thinking about it more and hearing other people's thoughts I realized it's probably more beneficial for the village for her to reveal than it is for her not too. I post as I am thinking and I waffle a lot.

I now think it would be better for the wolves for her not to reveal, because they can seer her and discuss with each other what to do. If we just leave her we can't confirm she is an important villager or who she is without our seer seeing cdo then outing themselves to tell us if she's important. I just don't see how not telling us helps the village more than the wolves. And yes I did change my mind completely but that happens. That's the point of discussions.

 

[KCgophervet]

I don't think we should be lynching cdo. I'm not married to my vote for STL right now and am willing to switch, but I don't get the Coopah vote (and it feels mean considering how quickly she tends to die), don't fully see the raf logic (this a metagame thing? I was reading as just plain indecisiveness but maybe that's just me), and don't think the Ski thing is really warranted (since it's based on that whole "pseudo-cheating thing" that was happening earlier, plus she totally quoted some advice I gave her last game in PM so 😍).

All this to say I'll switch to Coop just to try to keep a potential village power role alive, but I don't like it. And yes, somewhat hypocritical given my judgement of STL's play earlier, but I understand the logic behind this move and wasn't getting his logic earlier.

Unlynch STL
Lynch Coop

 

[Coopah]

I don't think we should be lynching cdo. I'm not married to my vote for STL right now and am willing to switch, but I don't get the Coopah vote (and it feels mean considering how quickly she tends to die), don't fully see the raf logic (this a metagame thing? I was reading as just plain indecisiveness but maybe that's just me), and don't think the Ski thing is really warranted (since it's based on that whole "pseudo-cheating thing" that was happening earlier, plus she totally quoted some advice I gave her last game in PM so 😍).

All this to say I'll switch to Coop just to try to keep a potential village power role alive, but I don't like it. And yes, somewhat hypocritical given my judgement of STL's play earlier, but I understand the logic behind this move and wasn't getting his logic earlier.

Unlynch STL
Lynch Coop

So if you don't want to lynch me then don't, if other people vote cdo that's not your fault. We can still get a wolf or at least a potential wolf. I don't know why people want to lynch me other than RNG so if you don't think I'm a wolf, don't vote for me.

 

[KCgophervet]

So if you don't want to lynch me then don't, if other people vote cdo that's not your fault. We can still get a wolf or at least a potential wolf. I don't know why people want to lynch me other than RNG so if you don't think I'm a wolf, don't vote for me.

If we're going to lynch a villager today I'd rather not lynch the power role. If things start shifting or anyone else comes on to say something I'll be happy to switch.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[SummerTheLynx]

Unofficial lynch tally:
Serher 1 (cyndia)
Coopah 4 (lyra, finn, ally, zen)
Ally ()
Cyndia ()
Finn 2 (Pippy, AM)
nessy 1 (serher,)
Confusing 1 (nyan)
cdo 6 (ski, WZ, coop, SAR, confusing, STL)
Lyra 1 (Doc-S)
AM 1 (nessy)
LIS 1 (DVMD)
Raf 3 (Trilt, 3m, Abs)
Ski 3 (Jil, cdo Snowshoe)
STL 1 (kc)
snowy 1 (raf)

26/27

Lynch close in ~1 hrs

So I am not a fan of the raf lynch, not a fan of the sky lynch, not a huge fan of the coop lynch....

I will move off cdo for now. I still just feel not great about doing so, as I really wanted that data point.... (and quite honestly, I am not convinced one way or another on whether she is a villager or a wolf based off of how discussions went).

*******unlynch cdo, lynch jilary***********

 

[WildZoo]

Okay let's use my example from last game, day 3 I had named every single wolf from there because I saw how people voted on the BBC lynch. People that are caught in the middle of voting en masse, and where they voted en masse is a very good indicator at catching wolves. I am not inclined to think that cdo is a wolf while I am inclined to think that Jilary is one. But even if cdo flips villager, it provides me with solid info.

Jilary, I am not going to answer what your tell is when it works the majority (not every time granted) of the time. I feel like I let it slip in the wolf chat from Pokemon, but you apparently didn't learn.

And Lyra - I hadn't read when I first responded. I had said originally I was going to list roles from my mafbot, found it wasn't in the IRC chat that it was supposed to be, and wanted info from last game. Dubz responded and I posted a quick analysis, while I started reading. When I saw tracker mentioned by trilt, went back and posted the update there (would normally just have edited).

I fill out my spreadsheet when I actually go through, on games like this. That takes time. I don't post every single thing I find on the thread (this would be dumb and make my play obsolete, as people would avoid doing the stupid stuff they do). That's how I get into scenarios where people call idiot savant, where I come up with this random people as wolves out of the blue.

All I'm gonna say is you better have some good idiot savanting this game if you ever want to reach MJ levels of trustworthy in my book 😉

 

[SummerTheLynx]

All I'm gonna say is you better have some good idiot savanting this game if you ever want to reach MJ levels of trustworthy in my book 😉

"Oh hey STL, so I know I trust MJ when he is acting sketch as all get out and STL pms you and tells you he is a wolf, but I will let you have that level of trust after you name all of the wolves in the game, we lynch them all, and the game is won , kthxbai."

 

[cdo96]

Well. I'm getting mixed opinions on whether I should reveal or not reveal, and since I don't want to tie up the tracker/ seer tonight, I'll reveal. Hopefully I get protected and won't get wolf killed tonight, if not, unfortunately, that's what happens. My brain was in research/ lab mode, not in WW mode these last 2 days, so I know I probably hurt the villagers by me playing. So sorry y'all. Let me type it up so it's right.

 

[deleted806434]

Are the people still voting for cdo wanting a role reveal before you change? Or do you actually think cdo is a wolf from the discussion today? Just curious

 

[Abnerrs]

Are the people still voting for cdo wanting a role reveal before you change? Or do you actually think cdo is a wolf from the discussion today? Just curious

Yo got one

 

[SkiOtter]

Yo got one

?

 

[deleted806434]

Unofficial lynch tally:
Serher 1 (cyndia)
Coopah 5 (lyra, finn, ally, zen, kc)
Ally ()
Cyndia ()
Finn 2 (Pippy, AM)
nessy 1 (serher,)
Confusing 1 (nyan)
cdo 5 (ski, WZ, coop, SAR, confusing)
Lyra 1 (Doc-S)
AM 1 (nessy)
LIS 1 (DVMD)
Raf 3 (Trilt, 3m, Abs)
Ski 3 (Jil, cdo Snowshoe)
STL ()
snowy 1 (raf)
Jil 1 (STL)

26/27

Lynch close in ~1 hr

 

[deleted806434]

oops didn't update the time

lynch closes in ~0.5 hr

 

[WildZoo]

I'm kind of inclined to keep my vote where it is.

The issue I am having is the damage has already been done. If they have a strongman, they will likely use it on her today regardless. If they don't, they are taking a huge risk if they try an attempt on her, as she will likely be protected. The alternative is that she is lying about having a villager role, and instead has a wolf role. I guess I am not seeing the benefit of keeping the actual name of the role secret when the damage has already been done.

I can think of one role where a reveal would not be a good idea, but in that case she wouldn't have mentioned having a role at all. So I think the reveal is the best option.

I'm not worried about the protector being tied up when they would mostly be flying blind otherwise anyway.

 

[SummerTheLynx]

I know I probably hurt the villagers by me playing.

OSHI, it's the leprechaun role!!!!!!!!!

*********lynch cdo******** (this is a joke, don't actuallly count this vote)

 

[cdo96]

I am the vigilante, specifically a 2 shot day vigilante. I was gonna wait until I got a firm suspicion to use it, but I don't see what option I have anymore. So yeah. Lynch me if you don't believe me, but I think you're all better off lynching a wolf. My suspicions are on Ski and Jilary. Maybe STL as well- he seems far too data driven right now to simply be vanillager.

 

[WildZoo]

"Oh hey STL, so I know I trust MJ when he is acting sketch as all get out and STL pms you and tells you he is a wolf, but I will let you have that level of trust after you name all of the wolves in the game, we lynch them all, and the game is won , kthxbai."

Good, you understand 😀

 

[WildZoo]

A day vig? Interesting...