Back to masks for us

[SurfingDoctor]

The reality is Delta is scaring people. In the good news department, daily vaccination rates are up from about 500K a day to 700K a day. I suspect fear is driving more of those than vaccine mandates, but it's probably a combination. In the bad news department daily COVID positive rates are up to 110K+ in the US.

Good, I hope it scares the s—t out of them so much that they keep jabbing themselves with Bill Gates microchip… they are that scared.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Lawpy]

Well, it follows the long American tradition of closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out. Or of Americans only caring about something until it personally affects them.

Good, I hope it scares the s—t out of them so much that they keep jabbing themselves with Bill Gates microchip… they are that scared.

Do people really have to be motivated by death and suffering to be vaccinated? Because death and suffering have been happening for nearly 1.5 years and yet the unvaxxed thinks vaccines are worse than being infected by covid unless they or someone close to them gets sick or die. It's for that reason, vaccine mandates are necessary and should be enforced everywhere

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Do people really have to be motivated by death and suffering to be vaccinated? Because death and suffering have been happening for nearly 1.5 years and yet the unvaxxed thinks vaccines are worse than being infected by covid unless they or someone close to them gets sick or die. It's for that reason, vaccine mandates are necessary and should be enforced everywhere

Speaking from seeing children die of vaccine-preventable diseases… yes. For some, it’s literally the only way.

 

[Mass Effect]

I mean you were asking for examples and citing sources. And the TSA example is a clear legal penalty

Statewide mask orders usually affect businesses and school districts at large by either fining them, cutting funding or shutting private businesses down. Individual penalties involve being denied entry to places. These actions are fought with lawsuits many of which are ongoing

Still not legal penalties. You're denied entry to places if you're not wearing shoes. People don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to these lawsuits. They'll find that out quickly enough.

Again, it's not a right to fly. You can easily take your car and if not, then a train and if not, then a boat, and if not, then you either just don't go or you abide by the rules of travel. The point is, if you don't mask, you're making a choice. And there are other choices made as a consequence, one is a fine.

 

[Mass Effect]

Speaking from seeing children die of vaccine-preventable diseases… yes. For some, it’s literally the only way.

And this is evidenced by the number of reports about people regretting their decision to not get the vaccine or advocating for the vaccine on their deathbed. But, the Covid deniers think that's a hoax too. Sad really.

 

[hallowmann]

Do people really have to be motivated by death and suffering to be vaccinated? Because death and suffering have been happening for nearly 1.5 years and yet the unvaxxed thinks vaccines are worse than being infected by covid unless they or someone close to them gets sick or die. It's for that reason, vaccine mandates are necessary and should be enforced everywhere

There aren't only 2 opinions or ways of doing things. Things are a bit more complicated and usually require multi-pronged approaches. There are lots of different views of the vaccines held by the unvaccinated, and it will probably take a lot of different ways to motivate them.

Also, fear and personal experience is actually a huge motivator, and there absolutely are actually a lot of people that need that before they will change behavior. There's pretty good evidence that anti-vaxxers respond better to sad anecdotes (that make them feel something) than actual data proving that vaccines are safe/good (which just makes them defensive).

 

[FutureInternist]

Obviously that should be the case, but this goes back to my point #4: We can't just say "screw the unvaccinated" because they are the ones filling up our hospitals in hard hit areas. This means the MI/CVA/Trauma patients are also getting screwed.

Don’t have a vaccine card, ambulance doesn’t pick you up 🤔

 

[Mass Effect]

Don’t have a vaccine card, ambulance doesn’t pick you up 🤔

I've thought about this too, but I don't know. On the one hand, we do this all the time for other things. When people are told to evacuate and they don't, we let them know they're on their own for example. But we do it in those cases because we're risking the lives of the first responders to go out in a wildfire to save a family who refused to evacuate or the family who refused to escape the hurricane or flood. It's a little more tricky with this assuming the first responder is vaccinated. They can still get it, but the risk isn't the same.

 

[FutureInternist]

I've thought about this too, but I don't know. On the one hand, we do this all the time for other things. When people are told to evacuate and they don't, we let them know they're on their own for example. But we do it in those cases because we're risking the lives of the first responders to go out in a wildfire to save a family who refused to evacuate or the family who refused to escape the hurricane or flood. It's a little more tricky with this assuming the first responder is vaccinated. They can still get it, but the risk isn't the same.

Not just risking the lives of the EMTs, but as you mentioned, the beds that these doofuses take up, the other HCWs that they infect who then can’t work etc all should play into that decision…. Again, it will NEVER happen in USA

 

[FutureInternist]

How many people did he convince not to get the vaccine?
Doing a death bed mea culpa has no effect cos so many likely already got infected.

Florida radio and Newsmax host who opposed Covid vaccine dies of Covid complications

Dick Farrel "texted me and told me to 'Get it!' He told me this virus is no joke and he said, 'I wish I had gotten it!'" a friend wrote on Facebook.

www.google.com

 

[viralhiker]

Don’t have a vaccine card, ambulance doesn’t pick you up 🤔

I hope this is a joke. I’m all for businesses requiring their workers to be vaccinated, travel companies, etc. But as a requirement to call for an ambulance??

Imagine calling an ambulance for an unvaccinated family member who has had a stroke. EMTs roll up, don’t see a vax card, and then say “nah good luck fam” and leave.

 

[viralhiker]

Funny how this thread has gone from “mask up in low virus areas to protect the few immunocompromised individuals and those in communities far away” to “f*ck the unvaccinated, exclude them from public services and let them die”

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Funny how this thread has gone from “mask up in low virus areas to protect the few immunocompromised individuals and those in communities far away” to “f*ck the unvaccinated, exclude them from public services and let them die”

Its worth remembering that many of the people in this thread have now had to work through 3 COVID surges with the most recent being avoidable if people would have taken the vaccine.

 

[MedScat]

Don’t have a vaccine card, ambulance doesn’t pick you up 🤔

I hope this is a friggin joke. There are many reasons why someone might not get vaccinated. Some I could think of from my personal life and patient population
1. Heroin addict focuses on getting heroin every day because they suffer from substance use disorder...they don't prioritize showering, eating, brushing their teeth, caring for themselves, and you think its selfish of them not to get vaccinated?? No, they have an illness that needs to be treated. If they overdose you won't pick them up on your ambulance? Shame on you

2. Patient lives in an assisted living residential building. No family because all his kids died. His diabetes and heart failure is so out of control that he falls on his way to the bathroom and can't get up so, he poops ad pees all over himself and lays on it. Do you think its this mans priority to get the COVID vaccine?? and do you think it's wrong for him not to??? If you drove an ambulance, you'd leave him behind because of his unvaccinated status?

3. Woman in an abusive relationship. Her partner won't allow her to leave the house without her and doesn't trust her to go to a healthcare provider to get the vaccine because he thinks she might rat out his abuse. You think we should leave this woman out of your ambulance?

These are examples of unvaccinated people I've seen only in the past week. Yes there are some people that are ignorant but when you start saying things like "don't pick up the unvaccinated in your ambulance" I literally want to punch you and take away your medical license because you don't deserve it. Do no harm, no matter what.

As a minority, I treat the racist gun shot wound patient yelling heinous comments at me, I treat the immigrant who hasn't been vaccinated or may be infected with other deadly disease, etc. and i plan to continue doing these things. Whether you believe in mandatory vaccinations or masks or whatever, please stop judging your patients and just take care of them.

I might just be a lowly naive med student but, I have morals and I will continue to have them as a med student into my attending-hood and I will forever call people out for saying stupid **** like this

 

[Lawpy]

Funny how this thread has gone from “mask up in low virus areas to protect the few immunocompromised individuals and those in communities far away” to “f*ck the unvaccinated, exclude them from public services and let them die”

The unvaccinated are driving the surges, overwhelming hospitals and actively preventing non-covid emergencies from being treated. The hate is understandable

I'm all for vaccine mandates everywhere but the deteriorating situation in US daily covid cases is forcing me to begrudgingly accept mask mandates

 

[MedScat]

The unvaccinated are driving the surges, overwhelming hospitals and actively preventing non-covid emergencies from being treated. The hate is understandable

I'm all for vaccine mandates everywhere but the deteriorating situation in US daily covid cases is forcing me to begrudgingly accept mask mandates

Hate for patients is not understandable. Half the MIs are because people don't do anything about their CAD. HTN and Diabetes, two other common things that lead to various serious sequelae commonly seen in hospitals are also many times because people don't take these chronic conditions seriously and we still treat them. If you don't want to treat these patients in the hospital then leave the hospital and go work in an outpatient primary care office where situations are non-emergent and you can cherry pick the patients who agree with you and send the ones who don't agree with you off

 

[Lawpy]

I hope this is a friggin joke. There are many reasons why someone might not get vaccinated. Some I could think of from my personal life and patient population
1. Heroin addict focuses on getting heroin every day because they suffer from substance use disorder...they don't prioritize showering, eating, brushing their teeth, caring for themselves, and you think its selfish of them not to get vaccinated?? No, they have an illness that needs to be treated. If they overdose you won't pick them up on your ambulance? Shame on you

2. Patient lives in an assisted living residential building. No family because all his kids died. His diabetes and heart failure is so out of control that he falls on his way to the bathroom and can't get up so, he poops ad pees all over himself and lays on it. Do you think its this mans priority to get the COVID vaccine?? and do you think it's wrong for him not to??? If you drove an ambulance, you'd leave him behind because of his unvaccinated status?

3. Woman in an abusive relationship. Her partner won't allow her to leave the house without her and doesn't trust her to go to a healthcare provider to get the vaccine because he thinks she might rat out his abuse. You think we should leave this woman out of your ambulance?

These are examples of unvaccinated people I've seen only in the past week. Yes there are some people that are ignorant but when you start saying things like "don't pick up the unvaccinated in your ambulance" I literally want to punch you and take away your medical license because you don't deserve it. Do no harm, no matter what.

As a minority, I treat the racist gun shot wound patient yelling heinous comments at me, I treat the immigrant who hasn't been vaccinated or may be infected with other deadly disease, etc. and i plan to continue doing these things. Whether you believe in mandatory vaccinations or masks or whatever, please stop judging your patients and just take care of them.

I might just be a lowly naive med student but, I have morals and I will continue to have them as a med student into my attending-hood and I will forever call people out for saying stupid **** like this

What's stopping to vaccinate unvaccinated patients in clinics, hospitals as long as they consent (which can be obtained many ways)? Assuming of course they aren't being admitted for covid.

 

[MedScat]

What's stopping to vaccinate unvaccinated patients in clinics, hospitals as long as they consent (which can be obtained many ways)? Assuming of course they aren't being admitted for covid.

Ok so my whole point of that post is that not everyone can always get to these places to get vaccinated, even with how easy access they have made it, and we still need to treat them and just try to educate them. Also, IDK about your hospitals but neither my hospital nor the one I am doing my away rotation at are giving COVID vaccines in the ED, even when patients ask.

 

[Lawpy]

Hate for patients is not understandable. Half the MIs are because people don't do anything about their CAD. HTN and Diabetes, two other common things that lead to various serious sequelae commonly seen in hospitals are also many times because people don't take these chronic conditions seriously and we still treat them. If you don't want to treat these patients in the hospital then leave the hospital and go work in an outpatient primary care office where situations are non-emergent and you can cherry pick the patients who agree with you and send the ones who don't agree with you off

All those cases can't be treated if the resources are exhausted entirely to care for the unvaccinated who chose not to be vaccinated. The examples you listed are more complex and have many factors unlike the situational factors surrounding vaccine hesitancy (which i argue are exaggerated and do not make up majority of vaccine hesitancy sentiments - far more people are in fact brainwashed by antivax disinformation)

 

[MedScat]

All those cases can't be treated if the resources are exhausted entirely to care for the unvaccinated who chose not to be vaccinated. The examples you listed are more complex and have many factors unlike the situational factors surrounding vaccine hesitancy (which i argue are exaggerated and do not make up majority of vaccine hesitancy sentiments - far more people are in fact brainwashed by antivax disinformation)

I literally just gave 3 examples of how some patients can be unvaccinated and it may NOT be related to vaccine hesitancy but, real barriers to healthcare. And those are just ones that I know about, I'm sure there are MANY more examples that our privileged minds can't even fathom.

 

[Lawpy]

Ok so my whole point of that post is that not everyone can always get to these places to get vaccinated, even with how easy access they have made it, and we still need to treat them and just try to educate them. Also, IDK about your hospitals but neither my hospital nor the one I am doing my away rotation at are giving COVID vaccines in the ED, even when patients ask.

Yeah i can't relate because vaccines here are everywhere and are offered when patients ask. Educating patients is always the case but i just don't think situational factors make up the majority of vaccine hesitancy

 

[MedScat]

Yeah i can't relate because vaccines here are everywhere and are offered when patients ask. Educating patients is always the case but i just don't think situational factors make up the majority of vaccine hesitancy

oh ok well if you can't relate then it must not be a real thing

 

[Lawpy]

I literally just gave 3 examples of how some patients can be unvaccinated and it may NOT be related to vaccine hesitancy but, real barriers to healthcare. And those are just ones that I know about, I'm sure there are MANY more examples that our privileged minds can't even fathom.

I know and i'm saying those cases don't make up much of the unvaxxed population but it's looking like it's geographically dependent

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I know and i'm saying those cases don't make up much of the unvaxxed population but it's looking like it's geographically dependent

That's the key here. Are there people with legitimate reasons to not get vaccinated? Of course. Are they what's driving this surge? Not even close.

 

[viralhiker]

All those cases can't be treated if the resources are exhausted entirely to care for the unvaccinated who chose not to be vaccinated. The examples you listed are more complex and have many factors unlike the situational factors surrounding vaccine hesitancy (which i argue are exaggerated and do not make up majority of vaccine hesitancy sentiments - far more people are in fact brainwashed by antivax disinformation)

If your last point is accurate, is hate justified for an individual who is "brainwashed?"

 

[Lawpy]

oh ok well if you can't relate then it must not be a real thing

They can be real but i don't think it makes up a major focus. But like i said it's clear it's geographically dependent

 

[Lawpy]

If your last point is accurate, is hate justified for an individual who is "brainwashed?"

The context matters here. I'm talking the frustration and contempt that's understandably expressed by healthcare workers when they're overwhelmed by unvaccinated people who are demanding resources to survive, when those resources could've been used for non covid emergencies. It's completely justified frustration especially when those non covid emergencies end up deterioriating and dying, all because the situation is preventable if the unvaccinated made the right decisions by talking to their PCPs before they became sick. There's little time to understand why the unvaxxed made the decisions they did when swamped.

The unvaxxed are behaving entirely reactively and are exhausting the healthcare resources when they could've been vaccinated and taken additional precautionary measures such as distancing and masking. People keep blaming structural barriers when the real villain driving the surge is antivax disinformation and propaganda

 

[MedScat]

The context matters here. I'm talking the frustration and contempt that's understandably expressed by healthcare workers when they're overwhelmed by unvaccinated people who are demanding resources to survive, when those resources could've been used for non covid emergencies. It's completely justified frustration especially when those non covid emergencies end up deterioriating and dying, all because the situation is preventable if the unvaccinated made the right decisions by talking to their PCPs before they became sick. There's little time to understand why the unvaxxed made the decisions they did when swamped.

The unvaxxed are behaving entirely reactively and are exhausting the healthcare resources when they could've been vaccinated and taken additional precautionary measures such as distancing and masking. People keep blaming structural barriers when the real villain driving the surge is antivax disinformation and propaganda

I simply got involved in this conversation when someone said something about not providing ambulances for patients without a vaccination card which is absolutely effing absurd, not blaming structural barriers.

The unvaccinated are frustrating yes but, it does not change how i would treat them. During election time last year, I heard someone disgusting things attendings and residents would say about patients who had fox news or anything showing their support for Trump in their rooms and I see this happening again...this is not political...I am simply frustrated by the blatant violation of the oath we took as providers that I saw then and am seeing again now against people who are unvaccinated. I provide patient education and do everything I can do to get them to get vaccinated but, it doesn't always work obviously. And I always have to follow these comments with "I am not a trump supporter or an antivaxxer" or else people assume I am. I simply value equal patient care, regardless of who they are. We can be frustrated, bitch and complain, have a drink over it, but it should not change how we medically treat our patients.

 

[Lawpy]

Also things like this make it really hard to sympathize:

"Dick Farrel, 65, used his local talk show and social media to rail against Dr. Anthony Fauci, who he called a “power tripping lying freak,” and say that no one should get the coronavirus vaccine. When COVID-19 sent him to the hospital for three weeks, though, he changed his tune, urging friends to get vaccinated, friends told local station WPTV."

That said, @hallowmann makes a good point that storytelling can be effective in outpatient settings since many many unvaxxed people respond easily through emotions.

 

[Lawpy]

I simply got involved in this conversation when someone said something about not providing ambulances for patients without a vaccination card which is absolutely effing absurd, not blaming structural barriers.

The unvaccinated are frustrating yes but, it does not change how i would treat them. During election time last year, I heard someone disgusting things attendings and residents would say about patients who had fox news or anything showing their support for Trump in their rooms and I see this happening again...this is not political...I am simply frustrated by the blatant violation of the oath we took as providers that I saw then and am seeing again now against people who are unvaccinated. And I always have to follow these comments with "I am not a trump supporter or an antivaxxer" or else people assume I am. I simply value equal patient care, regardless of who they are. We can be frustrated, bitch and complain, have a drink over it, but it should not change how we medically treat our patients.

The timing matters though. When vaccines are literally everywhere and the unvaccinated is driving the surge in AUGUST 2021, the frustration and contempt to them is absolutely understandable. This is not political. This is a general frustration over the misuse of resources on what's entirely a preventable situation when those resources could be used to save people dying from non covid emergencies.

 

[Lawpy]

It's for that reason why i'm now forced to admit mask mandates are necessary

 

[MedScat]

The timing matters though. When vaccines are literally everywhere and the unvaccinated is driving the surge in AUGUST 2021, the frustration and contempt to them is absolutely understandable. This is not political. This is a general frustration over the misuse of resources on what's entirely a preventable situation when those resources could be used to save people dying from non covid emergencies.

I agree with that frustration but, do you agree with treating patients differently because they are unvaxxed such as not allowing an ambulance to pick them up without proof of vaccination?

 

[Lawpy]

I agree with that frustration but, do you agree with treating patients differently because they are unvaxxed such as not allowing an ambulance to pick them up without proof of vaccination?

I'm pretty sure FutureInternist said that out of frustration because he realizes such a proposal is impossible to implement for obvious reasons

 

[viralhiker]

I'm pretty sure FutureInternist said that out of frustration because he realizes such a proposal is impossible to implement for obvious reasons

I would hope so, but it seems like some SDNers think its a proposal that might be worth considering...

I've thought about this too, but I don't know. On the one hand, we do this all the time for other things.

 

[FutureInternist]

Funny how this thread has gone from “mask up in low virus areas to protect the few immunocompromised individuals and those in communities far away” to “f*ck the unvaccinated, exclude them from public services and let them die”

We withhold life saving organs from alcoholics, do we not.
They have to show that they are “worthy” of it by jumping through multiple hoops.

Again, something like this will never happen in US, but in times and places of limited resources, I rather have them go to the CVA pr rather than the one too dumb to get the vaccine

 

[FutureInternist]

I hope this is a friggin joke. There are many reasons why someone might not get vaccinated. Some I could think of from my personal life and patient population
1. Heroin addict focuses on getting heroin every day because they suffer from substance use disorder...they don't prioritize showering, eating, brushing their teeth, caring for themselves, and you think its selfish of them not to get vaccinated?? No, they have an illness that needs to be treated. If they overdose you won't pick them up on your ambulance? Shame on you

2. Patient lives in an assisted living residential building. No family because all his kids died. His diabetes and heart failure is so out of control that he falls on his way to the bathroom and can't get up so, he poops ad pees all over himself and lays on it. Do you think its this mans priority to get the COVID vaccine?? and do you think it's wrong for him not to??? If you drove an ambulance, you'd leave him behind because of his unvaccinated status?

3. Woman in an abusive relationship. Her partner won't allow her to leave the house without her and doesn't trust her to go to a healthcare provider to get the vaccine because he thinks she might rat out his abuse. You think we should leave this woman out of your ambulance?

These are examples of unvaccinated people I've seen only in the past week. Yes there are some people that are ignorant but when you start saying things like "don't pick up the unvaccinated in your ambulance" I literally want to punch you and take away your medical license because you don't deserve it. Do no harm, no matter what.

As a minority, I treat the racist gun shot wound patient yelling heinous comments at me, I treat the immigrant who hasn't been vaccinated or may be infected with other deadly disease, etc. and i plan to continue doing these things. Whether you believe in mandatory vaccinations or masks or whatever, please stop judging your patients and just take care of them.

I might just be a lowly naive med student but, I have morals and I will continue to have them as a med student into my attending-hood and I will forever call people out for saying stupid **** like this

Sure, there are lots of “not under my control” issues.
The same for folks who miss HD and we continue to dialyse them to save their life when they show up at 2 am.

But if you are an antivaxxer who had every opportunity to get one but didn’t, and also convinced others to not do so, I’m good if you shuffle off this mortal coil

 

[FutureInternist]

I'm pretty sure FutureInternist said that out of frustration because he realizes such a proposal is impossible to implement for obvious reasons

I even said that it would never happen in US, multiple times 😏

 

[viralhiker]

I even said that it would never happen in US, multiple times 😏

I don't think @MedScat and I took issue with your comment because such a policy would be impossible to implement??

I was shocked that you and others would even consider such a morally-repugnant and illogical method to enforce vaccine compliance.

 

[Lawpy]

I don't think @MedScat and I took issue with your comment because such a policy would be impossible to implement??

I was shocked that you and others would even consider such a morally-repugnant and illogical method to enforce vaccine compliance.

Really? If resources are scarce, it's pretty defensible to prioritize non covid emergencies over unvaccinated covid emergencies

 

[viralhiker]

We withhold life saving organs from alcoholics, do we not.
They have to show that they are “worthy” of it by jumping through multiple hoops.

We withhold donated organs from those who have a high likelihood of not having a successful outcome from receipt of said organ. You do not withhold a liver from a dying alcoholic to punish them for being an alcoholic.

 

[viralhiker]

Really? If resources are scarce, it's pretty defensible to prioritize non covid emergencies over unvaccinated covid emergencies

In this fantasy world, since COVID transmission is primarily occurring in the unvaccinated, then there would never be resource scarcity because we'd just let the sick unvaccinated people die at home!

 

[Lawpy]

In this fantasy world, since COVID transmission is primarily occurring in the unvaccinated, then there would never be resource scarcity because we'd just let the sick unvaccinated people die at home!

Well that'd help unvaccinated change their minds in favor of vaccines when they see someone close to them die so there's that

That sadly isn't fantasy. It's real and widespread

 

[viralhiker]

That sadly isn't fantasy. It's real and widespread

I'm talking about the fantasy world discussed in this thread of refusing medical care to unvaccinated individuals.

 

[Lawpy]

I'm talking about the fantasy world discussed in this thread of refusing medical care to unvaccinated individuals.

What if they're busy tending to non covid emergencies and have no room to treat unvaccinated?

 

[MedScat]

But if you are an antivaxxer who had every opportunity to get one but didn’t, and also convinced others to not do so, I’m good if you shuffle off this mortal coil

Shuffle off the mortal coil? Again, as frustrating as it is...not cool man

Lord help your patients, done with this convo.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I don't think @MedScat and I took issue with your comment because such a policy would be impossible to implement??

I was shocked that you and others would even consider such a morally-repugnant and illogical method to enforce vaccine compliance.

We withhold life saving organs from alcoholics, do we not.
They have to show that they are “worthy” of it by jumping through multiple hoops.

Again, something like this will never happen in US, but in times and places of limited resources, I rather have them go to the CVA pr rather than the one too dumb to get the vaccine

Emphasis is mine here

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Do you really want to continue this ridiculous thought experiment?

Okay I'll bite:

"Dr. X, patient in bed 18 just arrived via family transport. Admitted with right side hemiplegia and slurred speech"

"Ah dang, we're pretty busy. Are they vaccinated?"

"Oh, no they're not. Want to tell them to get lost?"

"Yeah I ain't gonna waste precious TPA on a damn antiva-- wait. What are their reasons for not being vaccinated? Immunocompromised? Suss them out. Check that they don't subscribe to infowars and then make a call"

Cool hypothetical, but that's not what anyone is saying. Think of it more like triage in mass casualty events. If we literally have 1 ICU bed left and the choices are a) unvaccinated COVID patient with respiratory failure or b) aortic dissection. I think many are saying you should go with patient B.

 

[Lawpy]

Shuffle off the mortal coil? Again, as frustrating as it is...not cool man

Lord help your patients, done with this convo.

I mean having disdain for antivaxxers is reasonable. Note the emphasis on antivaxxers. These guys get absolutely no sympathy unlike those who can't be vaccinated for legitimate reasons

 

[Mass Effect]

Its worth remembering that many of the people in this thread have now had to work through 3 COVID surges with the most recent being avoidable if people would have taken the vaccine.

And that many of us know a healthcare worker or two who have died saving lives. So yea, I'd say you'll have to excuse the ones who are too annoyed by the selfishness of the antivax and Covid denier crowds at this point.

 

[Mass Effect]

These are examples of unvaccinated people I've seen only in the past week. Yes there are some people that are ignorant but when you start saying things like "don't pick up the unvaccinated in your ambulance" I literally want to punch you and take away your medical license because you don't deserve it. Do no harm, no matter what.

Dude, calm down. The poster was not serious. But really, as a med student, you have no idea how common (what you call) the ignorant are. 99% of unvaccinated cases are those who are ignorant, not the examples you cited. The people who should have their medical license yanked are the frauds and charlatans who are so-called doctors promoting this anti-vax BS. They are not competent doctors.