Bad news about the combined match

[DrMom]

I recently received this information:

The AOA was just informed by AMA staff that the resolution to combine AMA and AOA Match programs has been withdrawn. As noted in yesterday's Daily Report, the AMA House of Delegates was asked to consideration a resolution requesting the endorsement of a single Match for allopathic and osteopathic residency training programs. AOA President George Thomas, DO, sent a letter to the AMA providing arguments against a single Match and requesting that the resolution not be adopted. The AMA House of Delegates is scheduled to meet Dec. 4-7, 2004 in Atlanta.

Sounds like it's off.

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[Idiopathic]

Not to say I told you so, but I asserted from the beginning that I never believed this would actually come to fruition. It doesnt actually benefit anyone but the student...why would anyone else care?

Oh well.

 

[DrMom]

I tried my best. Very frustrating to be undermined by the president of the AOA, but I can't say I'm too surprised either.

 

[LovelyRita]

Thanks for the effort DrMom.

That is, to say the least, nauseating.

 

[DrMom]

You guys do need to know that we students do have advocates in the AOA. Hopefully with their help (and by adding to their numbers in the AOA) we'll be able to get issues like this advanced in the future.

 

[Docgeorge]

The AOA is so frustrating. Why do they always elect people like that to executive positions?

As far as far as adding numbers, a good way to do that is not piss off the people who are the future.

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

Not to say I told you so, but I asserted from the beginning that I never believed this would actually come to fruition. It doesnt actually benefit anyone but the student...why would anyone else care?

Oh well.

The AOA has to protect itself. A single match undermines the AOA and the work it has been doing throughout the past decade. If the AOA gave in to a single match...the next logical step in the process would be to turn in our licenses and pay $60 for an upgrade to an MD degree.

We must remain vigilant and defend our unique identity at all costs...Damn the allopaths! We must continue to defend and lobby for our right to bill for OMT...how else will I pay for my S-class?

NO SINGLE MATCH...NO SINGLE MATCH...NO SINGLE MATCH

VIVA AOA, VIVA AOA!

 

[jhug]

AOA President George Thomas, DO, sent a letter to the AMA providing arguments against a single Match and requesting that the resolution not be adopted.

that's why we need people like drmom in command of our poorly directed profession...this bozo had the ignorance to tell a classmate that when family/friends ask him about what a DO is he said "Tell them you are a like glorified chiropractor that can perscribe dx's and do surgery" AND THIS ***** IS IN CHARGE OF THE AOA! Too bad the AOA has closed elections, as long as we aren't allowed to vote (as is my limited understanding) fools like this will be in charge of things...



jmc....i think i sense sarcasm???

 

[VentdependenT]

The AOA has to protect itself. A single match undermines the AOA and the work it has been doing throughout the past decade. If the AOA gave in to a single match...the next logical step in the process would be to turn in our licenses and pay $60 for an upgrade to an MD degree.

We must remain vigilant and defend our unique identity at all costs...Damn the allopaths! We must continue to defend and lobby for our right to bill for OMT...how else will I pay for my S-class?

NO SINGLE MATCH...NO SINGLE MATCH...NO SINGLE MATCH

VIVA AOA, VIVA AOA!

I couldn't be in more accordance with your sentiments. I'm glad the AOA has decided to continue to damn the wishes of 99% of its new grads. To hell with us for wanting to make our lives easier!

 

[stoic]

The AMA must be laughing their asses off right now. They don't even have to try to segretate the DO's now... the AOA does it for them.

I had held a lot of hope that the match would be combined. I thought that it would be good for everyone invovled, especially DO PGE by forcing their programs to be more uniform in quality.

 

[AbuJadenDO]

my head hurts...

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

The AMA must be laughing their asses off right now. They don't even have to try to segretate the DO's now... the AOA does it for them.

I had held a lot of hope that the match would be combined. I thought that it would be good for everyone invovled, especially DO PGE by forcing their programs to be more uniform in quality.

They have been laughing for a while now...this will move things along a bit when there is that rare lull between jokes.

I just sat through a lunch/lecture where one of the main points driven home was the importance of supporting the AOA financially once we are unleashed on the public. I'll be sure to make that check out for even more now that the AOA has secured my best interest.

God bless America.

P.S. Stoic -- thrash yourself until your eyeballs pop out. DO PGE quality control is bad for business. You can't just walk around here and there making other programs look bad by identifying weaknesses. That would give them a bad reputation. If you identify a source of weakness, you (as a governing body) are thereby obligated to square it away. You would be well-advised to just look the other way my friend, demand equality, and at all cost, adamantly defend your uniqueness.

 

[almostfamous]

AND THIS ***** IS IN CHARGE OF THE AOA! Too bad the AOA has closed elections, as long as we aren't allowed to vote (as is my limited understanding) fools like this will be in charge of things...



jmc....i think i sense sarcasm???

AMEN, we also had an unfortunate meeting with Dr. Thomas. He must have got screwed over by the AMA in his younger days back with Andy Still. He has the biggest chip on his shoulder against anything to do with the AMA or allopathy in general. He is an angry little round man. It makes me sad.

 

[osler]

to JMC marine...

what the hell are u talking about.
AOA needs quality control for its GME.
it needs to be at the same level as the ACGME programs...

otherwise, would you want your family members to go to someone who graduated from a make shift AOA GME program for brain surgery??

i'm a DO student and i would think twice about it.
i'm proud to be a DO, but we need more quality control, especially at the GME level.

 

[Fermata]

God forbid people would actually realize how little difference there is between DO's and MD's.

 

[jhug]

He is an angry little round man. It makes me sad.

did he give you the whole "if you don't do a DO residency you are not being true to your profession"?
Can the man COUNT????
if we all decide to be "true to our profession" what would we do while waiting around for more residency spots to open up?!?!?

 

[Elysium]

At my school we call George Thomas "The Turtle". Or alternately, "The Penguin" from "Batman". He also didn't know what OMM stood for. It was the most underwhelming 30 minutes of DO school so far. And that includes embryo.

 

[Shinken]

AMEN, we also had an unfortunate meeting with Dr. Thomas. He must have got screwed over by the AMA in his younger days back with Andy Still. He has the biggest chip on his shoulder against anything to do with the AMA or allopathy in general. He is an angry little round man. It makes me sad.

I think "The DOs: Osteopathic Medicine in America" should be required reading before anyone applies to DO school. In case you forget, the AMA did screw the AOA and the osteopathic profession in general for decades. It's not surprising that there's still some sentiment in the AOA that prevents too much "amalgamation" with what used to be the sworn enemy of osteopathic medicine.

Are you on a military scholarship? You can thank the AOA for that. The AMA fought tooth and nail to prevent DOs from becoming military physicians. Would you like to work in an allopathic hospital? Thank the AOA. If the AMA has had its way, DOs wouldn't even be allowed to become licensed much less allowed employment or even privileges in allopathic hospitals.

I'll be honest with you, I also wanted the combined match. However, I understand perfectly why the AOA decided not go through with it. The profession wants to remain unique and separate but strategically tries to remain "competitive" as much as it can without becoming too absorbed by the larger AMA organization. Truth be told, if I was president of the AOA I would also vote to not combine the matches, even though that would make me very unpopular with many students.

I think as a profession we need to work to improve the Osteopathic Medical world instead of trying to become more like Allopathic medicine. And I totally disagree with JMC: $60 to trade our DO for an MD is *not* an upgrade. If anything, it would be a lateral move.

 

[jhug]

shink....THAT WAS 40 YEARS AGO!!!!
if the old-timers want to keep that battle up, they should do it on their own time!!! that's not my fight! It's a past, mute issue.
If your identity hinges on what the AOA does (or doesn't), you have a lot more problems than a messed up match process.

you said "The profession wants to remain unique and separate but strategically tries to remain "competitive" as much as it can" I would ask, how can we be COMPETITIVE when we can't even maintain our own???
If the big, bad, mean AMA came down and said no more DO's in our residencies...DO's students would have a very, very serious problem. I joke about changing jobs...but there is no way i'd front the $$ i am to wait years for a residency spot to finally open up because the AOA can't provide enough spots for each graduate.
The AMA could make life miserable for us lowly, opressed DO's, but they don't because they recognize our value in health care....i just wish "our" organization did the same...

 

[docslytherin]

the downside for the AOA now will be that those of us who would like to put a DO program as #2 or #3 will now simply avoid the DO match altogether. i don't know how they can think that this is a good policy. it will lead to more closures of DO residencies at the expense of the AOA's pride in not being second to the ACGME residency offerings because DO students will continue to move to allopathic programs. they're going to continue to slide as long as they deny the fact that students want a combined match. and because of their refusal to acknowledge us, they will alienate us from the AOA as future physicians. why should we support them in the future when they continually refuse to support us now? the AOA decision is very short-sighted.

 

[Nate]

I wonder if Dr. Thomas reads these forums. I don't see how a combined match would undermine the distinction between DOs and MDs. I think that it would simplify and lessen the confusion and hassle involved in matching though. I would be interested in hearing what Dr. Thomas has to say about his reasoning for shooting this great idea down. Maybe we should write to him and find out.

 

[medic170]

I wonder if Dr. Thomas reads these forums. I don't see how a combined match would undermine the distinction between DOs and MDs. I think that it would simplify and lessen the confusion and hassle involved in matching though. I would be interested in hearing what Dr. Thomas has to say about his reasoning for shooting this great idea down. Maybe we should write to him and find out.

I agree nate

 

[jhug]

lets do it...start a (worthwhile) letter writing campaign...not to pointless tv shows, but to the head of "our" errant organization!
if this guy doesn't already know what we want, let's make sure he finds out!

 

[Robz]

I heard this the other day in our student goverment meeting....

Just means I'm going totally ACGME and ignoring AOA residencies. Sad too, I know some of those residencies could use the competition to make them up to snuff.

 

[no-see-um]

I heard this the other day in our student goverment meeting....

Just means I'm going totally ACGME and ignoring AOA residencies. Sad too, I know some of those residencies could use the competition to make them up to snuff.

Maybe there's incentive not to have the competition.

 

[docslytherin]

I heard this the other day in our student goverment meeting....

Just means I'm going totally ACGME and ignoring AOA residencies. Sad too, I know some of those residencies could use the competition to make them up to snuff.

this sentiment will be the real backlash from the AOA decision. unless they change this policy, I won't go through the AOA match. it's a ridiculous policy.

 

[JohnDO]

How soon can this measure be pushed again? Isn't there a new AOA president every year?

I could be wrong, but it seems like much of AOA administration is the "chip-on-the-shoulder" generation. I really can't wait to see what direction the AOA takes when the younger generation starts working their way into the ranks. I hope the years of medicine don't wear away at the perspective we all share now.

Just want to say thanks to the people who worked so hard for this!

 

[docslytherin]

I have created a petition that I'm planning on presenting here on campusat KCOM asking that the AOA reverse it's position. I'm going to send it to the Dr. Thomas at the AOA after I collect signatures. I'll attach it in case anyone here is interested in doing the same.

i've removed the first petition as i'm working on a better one. i'll upload it soon.

 

[stoic]

How soon can this measure be pushed again? Isn't there a new AOA president every year?

I could be wrong, but it seems like much of AOA administration is the "chip-on-the-shoulder" generation. I really can't wait to see what direction the AOA takes when the younger generation starts working their way into the ranks. I hope the years of medicine don't wear away at the perspective we all share now.

Just want to say thanks to the people who worked so hard for this!

It's up to people like you and Dr.Mom and probably 90% of DO's under 50. The AOA is ****ing with YOUR future and your ability to pursue GME in a reasonable manner. It just blows me away, still, that this was shot down by the president of the AOA. SO many DO applicants just skip the DO match b/c they don't want to get shut out of MD programs. I dunno, it just doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm going to an MD school, but the reason for that is almost 100% the difference between instate MD tution and out of state DO tution. Osteopathy means a great deal to me and I think this is such a big step in the wrong direction. I would very much like to be involved in helping you guys make these changes, but I don't think there is really much I can do

So you guys really should organize. Lee is a DO, perhaps he would be amiable to the idea of using SDN as an organizing ground for DO students and DO's that want to foster change?

Good luck with this, you'll need it.
Dave.

 

[tkim]

Link provided by AVTimmay:

Text of the AMA meeting:

"(9) MSS RESOLUTION 9 - COMBINING THE RESIDENCY MATCH PROGRAMS

RECOMMENDATION: Madam Speaker, your Reference Committee recommends that MSS Resolution 9 be not adopted.

MSS ACTION: REFERRED TO MSS GOVERNING COUNCIL FOR REPORT BACK AT A-05

Resolution 9 asks that our AMA-MSS support the collaborative efforts in the education of both osteopathic and allopathic students and graduates by endorsing the concept of a combined Match to commence for the graduating class of 2006; and also that this endorsement be forwarded to the AMA HOD, owing to the time sensitive nature of this issue, for immediate action during this session of the AMA HOD.

There was substantial testimony provided on this issue. The Chair of the Council of Osteopathic Student Government Presidents (COSGP) testified that the American Osteopathic Association (AOA) does not have an official stance on this issue, but it is currently studying it and will make a decision in February 2005. Your Reference Committee supports the spirit of this resolution, but feels that it is premature for the AMA to make a decision before the AOA has reached a final consensus. We encourage the AMA-MSS to look at this issue again pending a decision by the AOA."

Full text of meeting in PDF form - relevant text p. 9:

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/15/i04_actions_a.pdf

 

[bgibney]

I had the pleasure of asking Dr. Thomas's stance on the combined match issue. I was berated for "wanting to destroy osteopathic residencies." I was told the issue was originally brought to the AMA house of delegates by an osteopathic student acting without AOA approval. He then went on to say that the AOA will not deal with the AMA until the AMA recognizes the AOA as an equal power; presently the AMA will only offer the AOA specialty status, akin to say the AAO, AAOS, ACP, etc...

I truly hope that we keep fighting for this, for without change, invariably this will lead to what Robz overheard (I will have to forego AOA otherwise I will be removed from ACGME match) and we will see the death of many osteopathic residencies.

My take on Dr. Thomas's response to me? Why be so defensive if the osteopathic residencies are on par with allopathic ones. If this were the case, he would probably have less opposition to the proposal.

 

[jonb12997]

I agree with the posters that have said it's going to hurt the osteopathic residencies... If I have a allopathic residency that I want as my #1, maybe a DO program will be #2, and #3, but since i want the allopathic number one, I'm going to apply to allopathic residencies...

is there any truth what I've heard about the AOA, that you have to do a osteopathic residency to be an officer in the AOA?

 

[donvicious]

This was sent by the AMA delegate from my school. I don't know what it really means but it sound like the combined match isn't dead.

Anyone care to comment?


I felt
like it would be beneficial to give you an idea of what actually occurred in
Atlanta at the AMA-MSS House of Delegates, Dec 4-7, 2004. The decision made
by the AMA-MSS was NOT to "withdrawl" the idea of a combined match. That
was only the SUGGESTION from the AOA Immediate-Past (not current) President
George Thomas to the AMA. In other words, the AOA was not in support of the
idea of a combined match.
However, the AMA didn't listen to George's suggestion. Instead, the
students REFERRED the idea for study. The study will be reported come next
June, when the AMA-MSS meets again in Chicago. So you will hear more about
this issue within 6 months. It ISN'T DEAD! FAR FROM DEAD!
Contrary to what you may have heard, most of the allopathic students
were in favor of the idea of a combined match; since it will OBVIOUSLY help
both parties get the residency they want, why would anyone oppose this. The
study will find out HOW combining the match will benefit both parties and it
will also figure out some of the other minute details of the issue. Any
questions, let me know.
Please see the attached link below of the ACTUAL decision made by
the AMA-MSS House of Delegates.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/15/i04_actions_a.pdf

You can read about the decisions about all of the ideas that were presented,
or you can go to PAGE 9 to read about what the decision was on the issue of
a combined match.

Thanks for your time,

 

[Nate]

Basically, the AMA has not abandoned it but postponed it and with good reason. Why should they commit to something that the AOA has no "official stance on" and that the AOA president clearly does not support?
This is bad news for the class of 2006 when it was supposed to go in effect but it is still promising, with hopefully a new president in the AOA next year, for future classes.

 

[docslytherin]

I agree with the posters that have said it's going to hurt the osteopathic residencies... If I have a allopathic residency that I want as my #1, maybe a DO program will be #2, and #3, but since i want the allopathic number one, I'm going to apply to allopathic residencies...

is there any truth what I've heard about the AOA, that you have to do a osteopathic residency to be an officer in the AOA?

i think the best argument for the joint match is if you have a #1 spot that's at a DO hospital. if my #1, #5 and #6 are DO (for example) but the rest of them are MD, then I'm going to forego the DO match because it's not worth the risk of ending up at #5 or #6 just for a shot at #1. I'd rather have a shot at 2, 3 and 4 along with the rest of my top 10. the only sense it would make to have it separate matches is if the majority of your top 10 (including most of 1-5) are DO. other than that, you're just hurting yourself by entering the DO match.

 

[docslytherin]

here is the text of it so far:

We, the undersigned, in response to the recent AOA position against the creation of a joint AOA-ACGME residency match, ask that the position be reversed.

As students, we are directly affected by this decision and feel that the joint match will be beneficial to us in our professional development. It will allow us to explore postgraduate opportunities in both the Osteopathic and Allopathic educational communities without exclusion.

For the AOA, a joint match ensures that DO students receive the best training by allowing the match list to reflect our educational choices. We will have an opportunity to explore every available option without penalty or compromise. This openness will manifest itself in well-trained Osteopathic physicians educated at the finest institutions. It will guarantee attendance in DO residency programs that might have been ignored because of avoidance due to compromise or student dissatisfaction with the current match process.

For our future patients this joint match will guarantee that physicians are trained at quality institutions chosen as desired goals and not as a backup plan. It will guarantee quality care for every patient.

Therefore, we, the undersigned Osteopathic medical students, ask that the AOA please reconsider its position and support the proposed joint match.


thanks,
john

 

[Ypo.]

Forgive me...but exactly how does it work when you apply to both matches? I mean, how does it hurt you to apply to both allopathic and osteopathic matches?

Is it because when you apply thru both matches, you are required to go to an osteopathic residency if you are accepted into one (even if it may not end up being one of your top choices or even a 'good' program?)

 

[medic170]

Is it because when you apply thru both matches, you are required to go to an osteopathic residency if you are accepted into one (even if it may not end up being one of your top choices or even a 'good' program?)

right shelley, I think that is it.

 

[Ypo.]

Yeah, I just did a search. I think the osteopathic match results come in before the allo results, and if you are accepted into an osteopathic residency, you are automatically dropped from the allo match. Therefore, if you really want to make sure you get into a good residency, and are worried about the high likelihood of getting into a crappy osteopathic residency, you may want to only apply through the allo match...

My question is...can you apply to only one competetive osteopathic residency, and then if you don't get into it, THEN go ahead and do the allo match for the same year? (or is it not possible to do it that way?)

 

[bones]

Yeah, I just did a search. I think the osteopathic match results come in before the allo results, and if you are accepted into an osteopathic residency, you are automatically dropped from the allo match. Therefore, if you really want to make sure you get into a good residency, and are worried about the high likelihood of getting into a crappy osteopathic residency, you may want to only apply through the allo match...

My question is...can you apply to only one competetive osteopathic residency, and then if you don't get into it, THEN go ahead and do the allo match for the same year? (or is it not possible to do it that way?)

yes you can. if your top pick is osteo you're fine. but if you get matched you are pulled from the allo match. if your osteo picks are 5th or 7th on your list, then if you place one of those you will be pulled and can't get your 1st-4th choices even if they would have loved to have you.

a bitch really. We need to make some changes.

 

[PACtoDOC]

the downside for the AOA now will be that those of us who would like to put a DO program as #2 or #3 will now simply avoid the DO match altogether. i don't know how they can think that this is a good policy. it will lead to more closures of DO residencies at the expense of the AOA's pride in not being second to the ACGME residency offerings because DO students will continue to move to allopathic programs. they're going to continue to slide as long as they deny the fact that students want a combined match. and because of their refusal to acknowledge us, they will alienate us from the AOA as future physicians. why should we support them in the future when they continually refuse to support us now? the AOA decision is very short-sighted.

Best words yet in this discussion!! I too would like to rank a DO program in my top 5 programs, but I am not about to give up the other 4 programs just to apply to that 1. Its just crazy. Even the ACGME programs don't understand, because the ones that are becoming dually accredited are beginning to require DO's to match through the AOA match when before they applied through the AMA match. That just crosses more good programs off my list because I refuse to risk the AOA match only to try and get my 3rd or 4th favorite place out of 20 excellent programs total!!

 

[docslytherin]

alright, so i'm still working on this petition's wording. here's what i have now:

We, the undersigned, in response to the recent AOA position against the creation of a joint AOA-ACGME residency match, ask that the position be reconsidered.

As future D.O. colleagues we have a vested interest in the nurturing and growth of the AOA. We believe that a joint application process affords us the opportunity to enter the best qualified D.O. programs as well as the best opportunities to enter allopathic programs that may not have osteopathic counterparts. This provides a collegial nature to continuously improving the highest quality healthcare for all of our future patients and provides the goodwill to future colleagues to insure our professions grows.

Therefore, we, the undersigned Osteopathic medical students, ask that the AOA please reconsider its position and support the proposed joint match.


ps- if no one is interested in this for their school or their friends just let me know and i'll stop posting it's revisions. if you are interested in it, i'd appreciate any feedback on verbage or content.

 

[Skialta]

Upfront, I am in an allo program. With that said, there is a couple of things that trouble me about the AOA. I would be for the one match system but at the same time I would think that it would be appropriate for one governing body to set requirements for residencies and for the number of schools/class sizes. My perception is that a number of DO residencies are closing at a time when the number of DO schools and satellite schools continues to grow. That just does not seem to make sense. What do you guys think.

 

[AwesomeO-DO]

yes you can. if your top pick is osteo you're fine. but if you get matched you are pulled from the allo match. if your osteo picks are 5th or 7th on your list, then if you place one of those you will be pulled and can't get your 1st-4th choices even if they would have loved to have you.

a bitch really. We need to make some changes.

Just how many spots are we required to request in doing the DO match? Can we put in for just one spot, and then apply to a bunch of MD spots if we don't get that #1 DO spot?

 

[Ypo.]

Just how many spots are we required to request in doing the DO match? Can we put in for just one spot, and then apply to a bunch of MD spots if we don't get that #1 DO spot?

Yeah, and one more question. Assume I did decide to apply for only one spot for the osteo match, that I didn't get it and and that I then decided to do the allo match right away. Have I hurt my chances to get into an allo program by applying 'late' or is there a sufficient amount of time between the allo and osteo matches so that it doesn't affect my chances when I apply this way?

If waiting to find out whether I get into my one and only osteopathic residency choice will hurt my chances in the allo match, then I agree with everyone else in that it would be better to just apply to the allo match to begin with, as there aren't enough quality osteo residencies to go around. (of course I live in Michigan where this is not the case, but for the rest of the country...)

 

[drusso]

I want to encourage the effort of those who have been working on this issue. Do not give up. You need to keep organizing and keep pushing. It is not longer a matter of "if" this happens, but a matter of "when." A combined match will *FORCE* osteopathic residencies to raise standards, improve education, increase recruitment efforts and compete on a level playing field with ACGME programs. There is still a lot of "looseness" in the whole osteopathic GME world. The OPTI's were a step in the right direction, but DO interns and residents still get shafted when programs close or hospitals restructure.

Keep working with the council of osteopathic student government presidents, start organizing lunch time "town hall" meetings on the subject at your COMs, write letters to the JAOA, write letters to your state societies, arrange meetings with the Deans, don't stop talking about it every chance you get to anyone in the AOA world who will listen. Support for this issue among the "rank and file" is large. If you create enough political pressure things WILL change. Remember, it is your tuition dollars that keep COMs in business.

Keep working towards better GME opportunities for future generations of DO's. Do not get distracted by "identity issues." There are many, many, many DO's in ACGME programs who are very osteopathic in attitudes and patient care. It's not an "identity issue," it an "education issue." That might be a good slogan! That message must be communicated clearly.

The last and worst thing to do is to leave the AOA. In fact, this kind of obstructionist tactic should trigger a movement to get "more involved." The "good old boys" are slowly but surely retiring and dying. The country club days of the AOA are coming to an end. Younger generations are coming up who understand the distinction between identity and education---training in a MD program does not make you less of a DO---in fact, it probably makes you better!

This hill is worth dying for...

 

[jhug]

The last and worst thing to do is to leave the AOA

but why be a part of an organization that doesn't care for me and my goals in the least? Why support an organization that doesn't have the same values and direction?
If the heads of the AOA are bent on living in the 70's (and hold closed elections to keep future leadership in line) why would i waste my limited time and hard earned assets?

I worry about the "dying off of the old-guys" comment because for every dr.B, i've met two students just as misguided...


that said, i agree with drrusso...we need to take action. A controlled, organized front will be most effective.

If anyone interested in drafting a resolution on this...please pm me.

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

Keep working towards better GME opportunities for future generations of DO's. Do not get distracted by "identity issues." There are many, many, many DO's in ACGME programs who are very osteopathic in attitudes and patient care. It's not an "identity issue," it an "education issue." That might be a good slogan! That message must be communicated clearly.

The last and worst thing to do is to leave the AOA. In fact, this kind of obstructionist tactic should trigger a movement to get "more involved." The "good old boys" are slowly but surely retiring and dying. The country club days of the AOA are coming to an end. Younger generations are coming up who understand the distinction between identity and education---training in a MD program does not make you less of a DO---in fact, it probably makes you better!

This hill is worth dying for...

Whoa..who is this guy? That was pure poetry! Damn, sign me up and ship me out for the cause. It really isn't an identity issue, but the top brass always make it one. As you have stated, the message must be made clear that its about education -- but I pause. Does the AOA, who most certainly acknowledges that its residencies leave much to be desired, want to deal with its own dirty laundry? That is, can it clean up this mess? Does it have the resources available and the proper leadership to change the face of DO PGE? Is this a pressing issue that is on the table right now?

I'll still make that check out to the AOA, but they are officially on notice as far as I am concerned. I don't have an identity issue and I don't want to inherit those of my DO forefathers. I appreciate the history of osteopathy and the blood, sweat and tears that were shed in order to have the rights we do today, but enough already. At some point you must bury the hatchet, and its beginning to look like that time is now.

 

[jgrady]

AOA had better get its head out of the sand. There is no way the AOA is going to an equal partner with the AMA. In fact, the AOA may have to be re-organized. Being closed minded about the future is just going to build a lot of resentment against the organization.

If the AOA is going to make its future members' lives more difficult and contradict our desires, we have several options. As already mentioned we can, as many students already have, only apply to the allo match. I'm only an MSI, but at this point I can't envision an osteo program making it into my top three. Heck, they just closed the last osteo residencies in the Northwest states. With the current trend in hospital closures, many of us may not have a choice.

Secondly, we don't have to become members of AOA. If the AOA continues in this direction without representation from the students that it affects, I'm going to have a hard supporting their needs.

AZCOM Class of 2008

 

[PACtoDOC]

I support this effort at TCOM, and I think most others do as well. Pass the petition along to me once it is complete and I can probably come up with 200 signatures in a matter of weeks.

Lets do it....show them who is really running the AOA!!! Is it the constituency or the guard???