Bad news about the combined match

[drusso]

but why be a part of an organization that doesn't care for me and my goals in the least? Why support an organization that doesn't have the same values and direction?
If the heads of the AOA are bent on living in the 70's (and hold closed elections to keep future leadership in line) why would i waste my limited time and hard earned assets?
QUOTE]

Because the organizational infrastructure, 100+ years of history, relationships, and political connections (Washington DC and government contacts) are useful and important for the profession to maintain.

It's not an organizational problem; it's a leadership problem. It has always been this way. It's easy to bash the AOA, but that is again another distraction that will hinder effective efforts to change the system. Don't get detoured by organizational and identity issues. These issues are quagmires that will deflate your efforts...Keep it simple: it's about changing the leadership (long term goal) and improving access to education/opportunities for young DO's via a combined match (near term goal).

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[Thousandth]

I think this issue is a step in the right direction for both camps, AOA and AMA. We should continue to petition for it. I am in a greement that at least one person from each school should get a petition to support this and get as many signitures as possible and send it in to the AOA. We are their future and with enough of a voice they will have no choice but to support us.

 

[Docgeorge]

What we need is a form petittion that we can present at all campuses. The question is are we going to use docslys pettition?

 

[Fantasy Sports]

What benefit do allopaths in the AMA get from the combined match?

It seems as if there is absolutely no reason that allopaths would give up residency slots for nothing in return, even if the AOA leaders decided to suddenly support the resolution.

And with the current rate of growth in DO schools without an overarching controlling body regulating the quality of schools, why do you think the AMA would let you guys combine with the allo match and allow an influx of DOs into allo programs that seem to be perfectly happy with MDs and IMGs?

Also, what would it mean to DOs as a profession if residency training, where a bulk of clinical skills are acquired/refined, were trained as allopaths? I thought you guys had philosophical differences with MDs that made you want to form your own branch of medicine?

Im really confused on this point, and any insight would be very helpful. I understand completely that this benefits DOs in matching, but what I dont understand is why the AMA would allow this to occur as to hurt allopaths.

 

[mocheese]

I dont understand what the hell you guys are complaining about. The bottom line is us "DOs" are going to be doctors and become part of the top 1% of the income class. Thats what it is all about anyway right? All I hear is "blah, blah, blah, the f***ing match". I mean christ, why the hell else would I bust my ass to study if I didnt think there was a Jag in it for me somewhere? I know ALOT of DOs and the bottom line is tear up the boards and you can do ANYTHING you want. Just stop whining....

 

[docbill]

For the time being, the ideal solutions would be the following. Each keep seperate Match.. BUT

The AOA releases the result of the match at the same time as AMA releases theirs. And the students don't get droped from AMA right away (prior to results released by both Assos.) Let say they have 2 weeks to decide.

...................

This is not always a DO vs. MD thing!

In Quebec a Canadian province.... medical students there have their own Match system, and also participate in the Canadian Match system. If they match in their Quebec system (results available earlier) and accept the offer (I think it is 2 weeks) they get droped from the Canadian system. If they decide to reject the offer, they remain in the Canadian match (which is released at a later time).

This Quebec program is regional. So if one wanted to stay in that province.. it would not be a problem to be droped from the Canadian match. Plus I believe they are all accredited by the same assos. (LCME I believe).

The AOA is not the same cause it is national.

 

[Old_Mil]

I think "The DOs: Osteopathic Medicine in America" should be required reading before anyone applies to DO school. In case you forget, the AMA did screw the AOA and the osteopathic profession in general for decades. It's not surprising that there's still some sentiment in the AOA that prevents too much "amalgamation" with what used to be the sworn enemy of osteopathic medicine.

Japan & Germany used to be the sworn enemies of the United States, too. Times change. To be perfectly frank, the greater acceptance that D.O.'s have received is a result of the maturation of the profession and the acceptance of modern medical science and the treatments derived from it.

If the "let's not prescribe drugs" group of Dr. Still had carried the day, this profession would still be lurking in the disreputable fringes of healthcare with chiropractors, herbalists, witch doctors and the people who sell magnets on late night infomercials.

 

[DORoe]

Japan & Germany used to be the sworn enemies of the United States, too. Times change. To be perfectly frank, the greater acceptance that D.O.'s have received is a result of the maturation of the profession and the acceptance of modern medical science and the treatments derived from it.

If the "let's not prescribe drugs" group of Dr. Still had carried the day, this profession would still be lurking in the disreputable fringes of healthcare with chiropractors, herbalists, witch doctors and the people who sell magnets on late night infomercials.

I don't mean to put words into Shinken's mouth, but what I think that they are trying to say is that the leaders of the AOA the one's that remember the way that the AMA treated us as a profession still are a little hesitant about the AMA as a whole. You make the analogy of Japan and Germany, while it is interesting argument it is irrelevent. Do you think that Jews that were in concentration camps still feel a bit of resentment (perhaps a severe understatement) toward that German people? I know that I would. This is a better analogy based on your orginal post.

Now to the topic at hand. A joint match only makes sense. I would happily sign any petition that came across my desk.

 

[DORoe]

What benefit do allopaths in the AMA get from the combined match?

It seems as if there is absolutely no reason that allopaths would give up residency slots for nothing in return, even if the AOA leaders decided to suddenly support the resolution.

And with the current rate of growth in DO schools without an overarching controlling body regulating the quality of schools, why do you think the AMA would let you guys combine with the allo match and allow an influx of DOs into allo programs that seem to be perfectly happy with MDs and IMGs?

Also, what would it mean to DOs as a profession if residency training, where a bulk of clinical skills are acquired/refined, were trained as allopaths? I thought you guys had philosophical differences with MDs that made you want to form your own branch of medicine?

Im really confused on this point, and any insight would be very helpful. I understand completely that this benefits DOs in matching, but what I dont understand is why the AMA would allow this to occur as to hurt allopaths.

I am not sure if you are aware that a large percentage of DO's are in an allopathic residency. Having a joint match would just make everything easier on all of those involved.

 

[jhug]

what does the AMA get out of it?....well, the AMA represents us as medical students. They watch out for what is in our best interests. We as students feel that combining the match is in our best interests so they are persuing it...That is what a real representing body does.

Also, before the dividing of the match, (i forgot the exact numbers but they are in a jaoa somewhere) some 70% of the DO residencies filled. They realized that students would double-match (MD & DO) so the powers that be decided to push our match one month earlier. What happened? DO residencies now fill somewhere in the 50%... in the past i could put 1.MD, 2.DO, 3.MD, 4.DO as far as preference....now i would put 1.MD, 2.MD,3.MD (by skipping the DO match altogether)
By combining the match, more DO spots would fill simply because they would become an option for those that are deciding to completely bypass the DO match.

 

[jgrady]

It's not an organizational problem; it's a leadership problem. It has always been this way. It's easy to bash the AOA, but that is again another distraction that will hinder effective efforts to change the system. Don't get detoured by organizational and identity issues. These issues are quagmires that will deflate your efforts...Keep it simple: it's about changing the leadership (long term goal) and improving access to education/opportunities for young DO's via a combined match (near term goal).

I agree with this statement to a point. How do you remove the sitting leadership? Are you suggesting attacking them personally?

No. The way you do it with your feet (or dollars). You let the organization know we are dissatisfied with the leadership and direction of the organization by not supporting their efforts.

jhug made some great points. As for the match, we have already been voting with our feet and leaving many residencies unfilled that with a combined match wouldn't be. I guess unfilled residencies don't make a strong enough point though.

mocheese, as for our "whining" I believe we are interested in improving the DO profession and physicians in general. Beyond just making our lives easier, benefits would include:

1) more pressure to allow OMM in many allo residencies (they couldn't say OMM is only for DO residencies).

2) More DO residencies filling up with highly qualified candidates.

3) A higher % of residents happy with their match (i.e. getting #2 would be their true #2, not #4 because 2 and 3 were diff match).

I'm sure their are more benefits, but that's a start. As for negatives, the only thing I can see is that the AOA looses some political power and AMA gains some. The profession doesn't loose anything.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

what does the AMA get out of it?....well, the AMA represents us as medical students. They watch out for what is in our best interests. We as students feel that combining the match is in our best interests so they are persuing it...That is what a real representing body does.

Also, before the dividing of the match, (i forgot the exact numbers but they are in a jaoa somewhere) some 70% of the DO residencies filled. They realized that students would double-match (MD & DO) so the powers that be decided to push our match one month earlier. What happened? DO residencies now fill somewhere in the 50%... in the past i could put 1.MD, 2.DO, 3.MD, 4.DO as far as preference....now i would put 1.MD, 2.MD,3.MD (by skipping the DO match altogether)
By combining the match, more DO spots would fill simply because they would become an option for those that are deciding to completely bypass the DO match.

I understand this, but Im looking for a reason why allopaths in the AMA should support this measure. The concerns I brought up in my previous post were the main concerns some delegates had, even prior to the AOA recommendation, so if you could answer those I could relay that information. To be honest, some of those concerns other allopaths mentioned concern me as well.

I just want to emphasize the point that right now there are two groups of people you are trying to convince-- your own AOA, and allopaths in the AMA, so tailoring your arguments to both groups would be your best bet likely.

So if you could answer some of my concerns from my previous post, I think we all would benefit. Thanks for your helpful replies so far.

 

[drusso]

MD programs are by and large happy to train DO's. We come with none of the liabilities and special provisions that FMG's do: No visa hassles, no moonlighting restrictions, easy verification of our credentials, etc. Residency programs really do see DO applicants as just another "flavor" of US seniors; whereas, FMG's are really seen as "different."

The AMA has even had DO's complete their prestigious Morris Fishbein Fellowship in Medical Journalism. Ironically, Morris Fishbein, one of the early editors of JAMA, is most widely remembered for his harsh attacks of osteopathy and being chairman of the AMA's Committee on Medical Quackery. Again, the bigger point is don't get sidetracked by these issues of "identity." It's the AOA's biggest Weapon of Mass Distraction (WMD).

The AMA is really pretty much "degree blind" when it comes to DO's. They will support an issue because it makes sense. They don't have any issues with "identity." When the AMA invited the AOA to join the AMA's House of Delegates, they invited them to join at a specialty society status and did not offer them a number of votes in correspondence to the number of AOA members. The AOA was right to refuse, but it was nonsensical offer in many ways. If the AOA had gotten a number of votes in proportion to their membership it would have made them one of the largest voting members in the AMA's HOD....which really doesn't make sense if you're the AMA. The AMA and AOA enjoy various other liaison relationships and sit on the same side of many lobbying and political issues---limiting scope of practice for allied practitioners for example---that's why Dr. Thomas' letter carried the influence that it did. That's also why this isn't an organizational problem, but a leadership problem. It's sort of like the distinction between loving your country, but hating your government (or vice versa). Get it?

 

[Thousandth]

I understand this, but Im looking for a reason why allopaths in the AMA should support this measure. . .

Aside from the age old DO/MD debates and personal views there is a real benifit to all AMA students by combinding the match. By allowing DO's to rank DO residencies at the same time as MD residenices they fill their list out with both. Now they may match to either DO or MD programs, instead of purely MD programs. The MD programs are going to take the best applicants for each position regardles of Degree. So if I was able to match at a #1 sloted DO program, where before my #1 would have been an MD program, and I was more competitive than an MD student for an MD program, for a slot that I would have ranked #1 had there not been a combination, well then suddenly that MD student has more opportunities than before. It actually will lessen the competition for slots for MD students, this can only be a benifit. At the same time the Osteo residencies get filled and ALL students have a greater chance of getting what they want.

 

[jhug]

it's important to remember that the AMA does not see us differently when it comes to rights...they recognize that we are getting ripped off so they are working to fix it (novel idea)...try not to equate MD=AMA...it's
medical students/physicians=AMA...

So for benefits, ACGME residencies will get the best applicants of all medical students (win), the AOA residencies will also get the best applicants of DO medical students because those students aren't forced to decide between top AOA/ACGME spots (win)

Also, with dual accredited sites, we can apply for the DO spots, if we don't get it we can turn around and apply for the MD spots...not exactly fair.

 

[jgrady]

The AMA and AOA enjoy various other liaison relationships and sit on the same side of many lobbying and political issues---limiting scope of practice for allied practitioners for example---that's why Dr. Thomas' letter carried the influence that it did. That's also why this isn't an organizational problem, but a leadership problem. It's sort of like the distinction between loving your country, but hating your government (or vice versa). Get it?

Interesting history, but not totally relevent. It reminds me of another not totally relevent history lesson. WA state voters passed an initiative for term limits a few years back so sitting Speaker of the House, Rep. Tom Foley, sued his own state to overturn his constituent's wishes. At least in this situation his district had a clear understanding of how to remove him, which they eventually did (I think it took just two elections).

More helpful in this situation than a history lesson would be information on how we can affect Dr. Thomas' decision and/or position of leadership. I'm probably not alone in that I don't know: what representation or voice we have in AOA; what Dr. Thomas' term is or how he can be influenced; nor what other disgruntled members are doing.

 

[OldManDave]

I have created a petition that I'm planning on presenting here on campusat KCOM asking that the AOA reverse it's position. I'm going to send it to the Dr. Thomas at the AOA after I collect signatures. I'll attach it in case anyone here is interested in doing the same.

i've removed the first petition as i'm working on a better one. i'll upload it soon.

John,

As a KCOM alumnus, I would glad to add my signature to your petition. As you all are learning or will learn, the AOA tends to be very short-sighted & self-preservationist. You will frequently see them teetering on the brink of doing something good and then back out at the last minute due to cold feet. Almost every time they will cite their rationale as "danger of losing our independence, uniqueness or fear of this being the first step on the slippery slope to absorption by the AMA". Ya know, the leadership prattles on & on about how much they fear the intent of the AMA. Hell, the AMA does need to do anything to make the AOA leadership appear as inept, paranoid bumbling old men dwelling on the past. The AOA does it all for them...very sad.

My class year was the year the AOA launched its ludicrous version of the match with the "Universal Application", which we rechristened the "Universally Not Accepted Application" as most programs would not even take it.

The senior leaders in the AOA are still fighting 40+ year old battles. During the coexistance of MDs & DOs, we have fought wars with anumber of countries where millions of people died - with almost all of these nationalities, we have friendly relations, their citizens immigrate here and we interact with them daily. But, in the CA fiasco, no one died and they just can't leave well enough alone.

Since I chose to undertake a residency at a top-notch program in lieu of a less than impressive DO anesthesiology program, I am to be punished. I can never hold a faculty position at a DO med school, never vote in the AOA nor can I ever be elected to an AOA office - but they will graciously allow me to pay my AOA dues.

This system of self-selection is how the AOA maintains its grasp on their group delusion. Only those who accept their indoctrination ever move onto senior leadership postions - you must tow the party line to move up the ranks. However, if grads like yourselves & me maintain their level of activism w/i the AOA, eventually we will be able to change the AOA. I am applying to have my internship officially recognized so that I can become an elected AOA officer.

But folks like yourselves are the future of DOs. Be a voice & make a difference! I am proud to be a DO and I can unequivocally state that our grads are the equal of any MD school. But, our org - the AOA - has problems! Of course, we should not feel alone, many of my MD colleagues feel the same exact way about the AMA.

 

[PACtoDOC]

That was very well said OldManDave!! I am happy to see that you spoke out on this issue. Perhaps if the AOA leadership sees that important people like you care enough to speak you mind, that they will start to take us seriously. The AOA is alienating us with their decisions that they make unilaterally without seeing what the desires of the current students are. In fact, I feel the only fair way to address this and make such a decision is to have the input of a majority of osteopathic medical students. They cannot ignore the will of the students without paying severe repercussions.

Now is the time to organize and present a united front on this issue. I believe the petition idea is our best asset in this fight, and I beg Lee to help us set up an online petition that can somehow be verified with our real names, so that we can all go back to our schools and ask people to log on and vote. Perhaps we could designate one person from each school to be the liason for passing the information to students via school listservers asking them to come to the site here and read and sign the petition if they agree with it.

I came very close to losing my damn hand in the first Gulf War, but you don't see me cringing every time I meet someone from Iraq or the Middle East. There is a time to stop the fight and unite with our previous enemies. You cannot blame the AMA for fighting against us in the beginning. We join with the AMA now is fighting against others who infringe upon physician practice rights. Hell it was the AOA who bitterly opposed giving DPM's any such recognition, but now DPM's are licensed in all 50 states like it or not. Who knows, maybe the ND's will be the next "DO's" who can show that they actually do have the training to be physicians, but I guarantee that we DO's and MD's as well will fight them to the bitter end. One day they may make enough solid changes to be in our ranks, but until them we will despise them bitterly. Its just the way the system works.

I hope someone can get organized here and really make this effort pay off. Maybe someone should start by sending this thread to the AOA so they can be the ones to decide if this really has to be the fight they are about to get. After all, the AOA pres represents 50,000 DO's, but truthfully it should be the students who get to make this decision since it is they who stand to gain or lose from it.

 

[Bookworm]

That was very well said OldManDave!! I am happy to see that you spoke out on this issue. Perhaps if the AOA leadership sees that important people like you care enough to speak you mind, that they will start to take us seriously. The AOA is alienating us with their decisions that they make unilaterally without seeing what the desires of the current students are. In fact, I feel the only fair way to address this and make such a decision is to have the input of a majority of osteopathic medical students. They cannot ignore the will of the students without paying severe repercussions.

Now is the time to organize and present a united front on this issue. I believe the petition idea is our best asset in this fight, and I beg Lee to help us set up an online petition that can somehow be verified with our real names, so that we can all go back to our schools and ask people to log on and vote. Perhaps we could designate one person from each school to be the liason for passing the information to students via school listservers asking them to come to the site here and read and sign the petition if they agree with it.

I came very close to losing my damn hand in the first Gulf War, but you don't see me cringing every time I meet someone from Iraq or the Middle East. There is a time to stop the fight and unite with our previous enemies. You cannot blame the AMA for fighting against us in the beginning. We join with the AMA now is fighting against others who infringe upon physician practice rights. Hell it was the AOA who bitterly opposed giving DPM's any such recognition, but now DPM's are licensed in all 50 states like it or not. Who knows, maybe the ND's will be the next "DO's" who can show that they actually do have the training to be physicians, but I guarantee that we DO's and MD's as well will fight them to the bitter end. One day they may make enough solid changes to be in our ranks, but until them we will despise them bitterly. Its just the way the system works.

I hope someone can get organized here and really make this effort pay off. Maybe someone should start by sending this thread to the AOA so they can be the ones to decide if this really has to be the fight they are about to get. After all, the AOA pres represents 50,000 DO's, but truthfully it should be the students who get to make this decision since it is they who stand to gain or lose from it.

we should work to make a single petition that students from the diff schools can print out and sign.

1 person from each school will print out a copy of the petition and keep SDN posted on the signature collection success.

after the signatures are collected, we can synchronize the sending or we can all send it to one person so it will all arrive at the same address at the same time??????

 

[Cowboy DO]

we should work to make a single petition that students from the diff schools can print out and sign.

1 person from each school will print out a copy of the petition and keep SDN posted on the signature collection success.

after the signatures are collected, we can synchronize the sending or we can all send it to one person so it will all arrive at the same address at the same time??????

This is just a thought, as im not sure how professional this would seem but have you seen this website? http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html

 

[mrm1682]

a lot of people are saying "we should".... how about someone actually steps up and does something? i would do it myself but i'm a "class of 2009 hopeful" so i can't do much yet. everyone always complains and says things should be this way or that way but no one wants to step up. SOMEONE take charge of this and lets get the ball rolling!!

 

[OldManDave]

a lot of people are saying "we should".... how about someone actually steps up and does something? i would do it myself but i'm a "class of 2009 hopeful" so i can't do much yet. everyone always complains and says things should be this way or that way but no one wants to step up. SOMEONE take charge of this and lets get the ball rolling!!

As I pointed out in my post, since I did not do an AOA-sanctioned internship, I am a loud non-voice in reference to the AOA...they're most happy to take my dues, but don't care what I have to say. But, believe me, I am in the process of trying to get my internship recognized retroactively. Once I have that in my pocket, I become a member of the voting contingency & I will be in the midst of the building voice w/i the AOA for change.

Sadly, I see many of my younger colleagues who simply say, "...to hell with it & with the AOA..." out of frustration. It is this continual frustration that begins in med school & festers through residency & beyond that effectively disarms those of us who want things to change. No, in no way am I implying that this is a pre-meditated tactic to divide & conquer the dissenting factions w/i the AOA...I don't think they're that savvy. However, I truly feel it is a product of long-term self-selection by promoting those that tote the party-line & a lack of/loss of identifying characteristic(s) with the subsequent mad scamper to find that lost piece. The AOA's continual search for what makes us substantively different, but equal really portrays us as uncertain & searching for an identity...grasping at lost straws.

Just today, I was venting over how unneccessarily complex it is to merely request a NBOME transcript. You can't submit over the phone, by mail - only by fax & only with your credit card number, exp date & a sig. Sorry, but that is not secure, nor is it convenient & it is archaic! It would be a simple task for a programmer to add a secure request routine to the website w/ a variety of payment options. I run a shoe-strong educational organization (OldPreMeds - www.OldPreMeds.org) & have managed to have similar routines set up for our annual conferences several times...I actually did not create the routine as I am truly a 'puter dummy...and it worked. Please Lord tell me that a bunch of "suits" & physicians have the savvy to either learn or contract such task to someone who does know how. Nope, being archaic makes us different...

I am truly proud to be a DO. At KCOM, I received a superb education & I have no trouble going toe-to-toe with graduates of any program. Furthermore, I have yet to have anyone discount my abilities or knowledge base simply because I am a DO. I am certain that there is some residual dissent out there, but I just have not encountered it & I am in a very high-end place.

In summation, you are correct, the underpinnings for the lack of change has been a lack of organization & no one to pick up the mantel to coordinate. That is an unfortunately reality for people who are in residency &/or newly out in private practice. There simply is not time for a single person or even a small group of people. This is why historically the political leaders of the AOA & the AMA have been the older, retired/semi-retired physicians - they have the time & the financial resources to do it. But, in today's challenging medico-legal & political climates, it is critical that younger physicians, the ones embroiled in the fray, make time to become active & savvy leaders. This was & is a primary motivator for me selecting Dartmouth for my residency. Yes, it is a superb anesthesiology program, but I can also undertake a formal adjuct program in medical leadership/preventive medicine...I will start this portion next fall. I sincerely hope more & more young physicians opt for similar tracts. Our professions future is depending upon it.

Sorry...I am off my soapbox, at least temporarily...

 

[stoic]

a lot of people are saying "we should".... how about someone actually steps up and does something? i would do it myself but i'm a "class of 2009 hopeful" so i can't do much yet. everyone always complains and says things should be this way or that way but no one wants to step up. SOMEONE take charge of this and lets get the ball rolling!!

Personally I think the voice of potential students should be heard in these petitions as well. Perhaps in a different petition for "lay folk" submitted at the same time. The issue of osteopathic GME is really, really important to future students. For example, the main reason I choose MD schools was $$$$, but the issue that shoved a stake through the heart of my osteopathic aspirations was the lack of consistancy in DO residencies and what I percieve as indifference towards the issue from the DO separatist leadership.

 

[Bookworm]

a lot of people are saying "we should".... how about someone actually steps up and does something? i would do it myself but i'm a "class of 2009 hopeful" so i can't do much yet. everyone always complains and says things should be this way or that way but no one wants to step up. SOMEONE take charge of this and lets get the ball rolling!!

ok. here is a draft petition.
i tried to make it incorporate the perspective of the AOA.

December 11, 2004

George Thomas, DO
President
American Osteopathic Association
Chicago Office – Main Headquarters
142 East Ontario Street
Chicago, IL 60611

CC: Darryl A. Beehler, D.O
Immediate Past President
American Osteopathic Association

RE: Combined AOA/ACGME Match for 4th year medical students

Respected President:

Please accept our respects and greetings.

We, the undersigned osteopathic medical students, are writing this letter asking you, Dr. Thomas, to make the official stance of the American Osteopathic Association in support of a combined match for both osteopathic and allopathic medical students.

Osteopathic medicine is a unique and distinct form of medicine. We are proud to be part of the profession founded over 150 years ago by Andrew Taylor Still, and are very much invested in a strong future for our profession.

As our president, you have consistently supported maintaining a strong osteopathic identity with an emphasis on osteopathic development and increased recognition in the medical community.

We are in agreement with these ideals and as osteopathic medical students, we want to work to enhance these goals.

We are very fortuned to have you as our president because of your strong commitment to the osteopathic profession. We share that commitment.

We are asking for the AOA to make the official stance in support of a combined AOA/ACGME match. Currently, as you know, osteopathic students are forced to make a choice whether to participate in the AOA or ACGME match process, as when one matches through the AOA match, one cannot participate in the ACGME match, and vice versa.

We believe it would be in the best interest of enhancing the osteopathic profession to be in favor of combining the two matches. The reasoning is twofold.

First, by explicitly allowing osteopathic students to match in allopathic institutions, it lends credibility to those OMSs who seek to match in such prominent institutions such as Harvard Medical School, John Hopkins University, University of Pennsylvania, The Cleveland Clinic, etc. The status and osteopathic competence that these students and physicians bring with them to these institutions enhances our profession. Just recently, it was reported in The DO that Harvard University was sponsoring an OMM course because of a DO on staff at Harvard, Dr. Darren Rosenberg. Dr. Rosenberg completed his residency at John Hopkins University, which certainly facilitated his appointment at Harvard, and is definitely helping advance osteopathic medicine. It grants a positive distinction to our profession and strengthens our identity.

What better way for the American public to become more aware of DO’s than for DO’s to match and be on the staff of major teaching hospitals? The future of the osteopathic profession depends on research, producing leaders not just of the osteopathic community but the medical community – in short, we need osteopathic physicians to be leaders of their respective fields, publishing groundbreaking research including the role of osteopathic principles in diseases. What better way to do this than to “inject osteopathy” into residency programs all across the country whether allopathic or osteopathic?

Another example is the Christiana Care Hospital family medicine residency program (dually accredited allopathic program), which has an OMM clinic to which allopathic residents refer patients to their osteopathic counterparts in the program. By infiltrating the allopathic world, we are slowly but surely making an impact and image, and gaining further respect in the medical profession in general.

The second reason for accepting such a combination is to enhance the number of students who match into osteopathic programs. Often, students reason that they must apply to allopathic programs because mathematically, there are not enough osteopathic internship spots for the graduating osteopathic class. However, currently, many osteopathic spots are unfilled. This does not bode well for the profession.

One major factor influencing this is the fact that students are forced to make the match choice. There are many students considering both allopathic and osteopathic choices, and if given the choice, would apply to both. Too often, students will choose to forego the osteopathic match, and only apply to the allopathic match, because they are qualified for the latter. Although they may be interested in lucrative opportunities in the osteopathic match, their dueling interests are won over by the increased prominence of the allopathic program. By punishing this and by exerting a harder line by firming the barricade between allopathic and osteopathic programs, this only induces a reaction formation that is very unfortunate in the student body—the future generation of osteopathic physicians. (Dr. Beehler, who visited our school last year with you, emphasized this point by talking about the need for the AOA to embrace all DO’s including those who have completed allopathic residencies and those considering them.) By implementing the combination match, students will no longer feel this antagonism, and will feel freer to express their interest in their selected osteopathic programs, thus increasing the possibility they will match in such programs.

We sincerely believe that by combing the match, the opportunities available to osteopathic medical students will increase, especially by increasing filling of osteopathic spots and by increasing the recognition of the osteopathic community in the public.

Therefore, we ask the American Osteopathic Association to make it’s official stance in support of a combined AOA/ACGME match to begin as soon as possible. This stance is necessary for the AMA to consider this combination, as they recently stated in one of their resolutions:

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/15/i04_actions_a.pdf
PAGE 9

Resolution 9 asks that our AMA-MSS support the collaborative efforts in the education of both osteopathic and allopathic students and graduates by endorsing the concept of a combined Match to commence for the graduating class of 2006; and also that this endorsement be forwarded to the AMA HOD, owing to the time sensitive nature of this issue, for immediate action during this session of the AMA HOD. There was substantial testimony provided on this issue. The Chair of the Council of Osteopathic Student Government Presidents (COSGP) testified that the American Osteopathic Association (AOA) does not have an official stance on this issue, but it is
currently studying it and will make a decision in February 2005. Your Reference Committee supports the spirit of this resolution, but feels that it is premature for the AMA to make a decision before the AOA has reached a final consensus. We encourage the AMA-MSS to look at this issue again pending a decision by the AOA.

This is a decision we believe will serve the osteopathic profession well for years to come.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Name (Print) Signature School Graduating Year

 

[OldManDave]

ok. here is a draft petition.
i tried to make it incorporate the perspective of the AOA.

December 11, 2004

George Thomas, DO
President
American Osteopathic Association
Chicago Office – Main Headquarters
142 East Ontario Street
Chicago, IL 60611

CC: Darryl A. Beehler, D.O
Immediate Past President
American Osteopathic Association

RE: Combined AOA/ACGME Match for 4th year medical students

Respected President:

Please accept our respects and greetings.

We, the undersigned osteopathic medical students, are writing this letter asking you, Dr. Thomas, to make the official stance of the American Osteopathic Association in support of a combined match for both osteopathic and allopathic medical students.

Osteopathic medicine is a unique and distinct form of medicine. We are proud to be part of the profession founded over 150 years ago by Andrew Taylor Still, and are very much invested in a strong future for our profession.

As our president, you have consistently supported maintaining a strong osteopathic identity with an emphasis on osteopathic development and increased recognition in the medical community.

We are in agreement with these ideals and as osteopathic medical students, we want to work to enhance these goals.

We are very fortuned to have you as our president because of your strong commitment to the osteopathic profession. We share that commitment.

We are asking for the AOA to make the official stance in support of a combined AOA/ACGME match. Currently, as you know, osteopathic students are forced to make a choice whether to participate in the AOA or ACGME match process, as when one matches through the AOA match, one cannot participate in the ACGME match, and vice versa.

We believe it would be in the best interest of enhancing the osteopathic profession to be in favor of combining the two matches. The reasoning is twofold.

First, by explicitly allowing osteopathic students to match in allopathic institutions, it lends credibility to those OMSs who seek to match in such prominent institutions such as Harvard Medical School, John Hopkins University, University of Pennsylvania, The Cleveland Clinic, etc. The status and osteopathic competence that these students and physicians bring with them to these institutions enhances our profession. Just recently, it was reported in The DO that Harvard University was sponsoring an OMM course because of a DO on staff at Harvard, Dr. Darren Rosenberg. Dr. Rosenberg completed his residency at John Hopkins University, which certainly facilitated his appointment at Harvard, and is definitely helping advance osteopathic medicine. It grants a positive distinction to our profession and strengthens our identity.

What better way for the American public to become more aware of DO’s than for DO’s to match and be on the staff of major teaching hospitals? The future of the osteopathic profession depends on research, producing leaders not just of the osteopathic community but the medical community – in short, we need osteopathic physicians to be leaders of their respective fields, publishing groundbreaking research including the role of osteopathic principles in diseases. What better way to do this than to “inject osteopathy” into residency programs all across the country whether allopathic or osteopathic?

Another example is the Christiana Care Hospital family medicine residency program (dually accredited allopathic program), which has an OMM clinic to which allopathic residents refer patients to their osteopathic counterparts in the program. By infiltrating the allopathic world, we are slowly but surely making an impact and image, and gaining further respect in the medical profession in general.

The second reason for accepting such a combination is to enhance the number of students who match into osteopathic programs. Often, students reason that they must apply to allopathic programs because mathematically, there are not enough osteopathic internship spots for the graduating osteopathic class. However, currently, many osteopathic spots are unfilled. This does not bode well for the profession.

One major factor influencing this is the fact that students are forced to make the match choice. There are many students considering both allopathic and osteopathic choices, and if given the choice, would apply to both. Too often, students will choose to forego the osteopathic match, and only apply to the allopathic match, because they are qualified for the latter. Although they may be interested in lucrative opportunities in the osteopathic match, their dueling interests are won over by the increased prominence of the allopathic program. By punishing this and by exerting a harder line by firming the barricade between allopathic and osteopathic programs, this only induces a reaction formation that is very unfortunate in the student body—the future generation of osteopathic physicians. (Dr. Beehler, who visited our school last year with you, emphasized this point by talking about the need for the AOA to embrace all DO’s including those who have completed allopathic residencies and those considering them.) By implementing the combination match, students will no longer feel this antagonism, and will feel freer to express their interest in their selected osteopathic programs, thus increasing the possibility they will match in such programs.

We sincerely believe that by combing the match, the opportunities available to osteopathic medical students will increase, especially by increasing filling of osteopathic spots and by increasing the recognition of the osteopathic community in the public.

Therefore, we ask the American Osteopathic Association to make it’s official stance in support of a combined AOA/ACGME match to begin as soon as possible. This stance is necessary for the AMA to consider this combination, as they recently stated in one of their resolutions:

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/15/i04_actions_a.pdf
PAGE 9

Resolution 9 asks that our AMA-MSS support the collaborative efforts in the education of both osteopathic and allopathic students and graduates by endorsing the concept of a combined Match to commence for the graduating class of 2006; and also that this endorsement be forwarded to the AMA HOD, owing to the time sensitive nature of this issue, for immediate action during this session of the AMA HOD. There was substantial testimony provided on this issue. The Chair of the Council of Osteopathic Student Government Presidents (COSGP) testified that the American Osteopathic Association (AOA) does not have an official stance on this issue, but it is
currently studying it and will make a decision in February 2005. Your Reference Committee supports the spirit of this resolution, but feels that it is premature for the AMA to make a decision before the AOA has reached a final consensus. We encourage the AMA-MSS to look at this issue again pending a decision by the AOA.

This is a decision we believe will serve the osteopathic profession well for years to come.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Name (Print) Signature School Graduating Year

Sounds good on the first quick read through; however, you should edit it such that it is osteopathic physicians & osteopathic medical students who are supporting this petition...somewhere in there, you implied that the undersigned would only be DO students...

Now, we need to figure out where & how to get sigs that are verifiable.

 

[Bookworm]

Sounds good on the first quick read through; however, you should edit it such that it is osteopathic physicians & osteopathic medical students who are supporting this petition...somewhere in there, you implied that the undersigned would only be DO students...

Now, we need to figure out where & how to get sigs that are verifiable.

wow!! that was a quick reply.
your point is noted. i guess everywhere it says students we can just add physicians also.
re: getting verifiable sigs:
maybe we could also include a line for email/phone number? just a thought

keep the suggestions comming!


also, if anyone has good examples of DOs in prominent allopathic institutions advancing osteoapthic medicine, please add.

 

[Bookworm]

taking into account OldManDave's suggestions


George Thomas, DO
President
American Osteopathic Association
Chicago Office – Main Headquarters
142 East Ontario Street
Chicago, IL 60611

CC: Darryl A. Beehler, D.O
Immediate Past President
American Osteopathic Association

RE: Combined AOA/ACGME Match for 4th year medical students

Respected President:

Please accept our respects and greetings.

We, the undersigned osteopathic medical students and osteopathic physicians, are writing this letter asking you, Dr. Thomas, to make the official stance of the American Osteopathic Association in support of a combined match for both osteopathic and allopathic medical students.

Osteopathic medicine is a unique and distinct form of medicine. We are proud to be part of the profession founded over 150 years ago by Andrew Taylor Still, and are very much invested in a strong future for our profession.

As our president, you have consistently supported maintaining a strong osteopathic identity with an emphasis on osteopathic development and increased recognition in the medical community.

We are in agreement with these ideals and as osteopathic medical students, we want to work to enhance these goals.

We are very fortuned to have you as our president because of your strong commitment to the osteopathic profession. We share that commitment.

We are asking for the AOA to make the official stance in support of a combined AOA/ACGME match. Currently, as you know, osteopathic students are forced to make a choice whether to participate in the AOA or ACGME match process, as when one matches through the AOA match, one cannot participate in the ACGME match, and vice versa.

We believe it would be in the best interest of enhancing the osteopathic profession to be in favor of combining the two matches. The reasoning is twofold.

First, by explicitly allowing osteopathic students to match in allopathic institutions, it lends credibility to those OMSs who seek to match in such prominent institutions such as Harvard Medical School, John Hopkins University, University of Pennsylvania, The Cleveland Clinic, etc. The status and osteopathic competence that these students and physicians bring with them to these institutions enhances our profession. Just recently, it was reported in The DO that Harvard University was sponsoring an OMM course because of a DO on staff at Harvard, Dr. Darren Rosenberg. Dr. Rosenberg completed his residency at John Hopkins University, which certainly facilitated his appointment at Harvard, and is definitely helping advance osteopathic medicine. It grants a positive distinction to our profession and strengthens our identity.

What better way for the American public to become more aware of DO’s than for DO’s to match and be on the staff of major teaching hospitals? The future of the osteopathic profession depends on research, producing leaders not just of the osteopathic community but the medical community – in short, we need osteopathic physicians to be leaders of their respective fields, publishing groundbreaking research including the role of osteopathic principles in diseases. What better way to do this than to “inject osteopathy” into residency programs all across the country whether allopathic or osteopathic?

Another example is the Christiana Care Hospital family medicine residency program (dually accredited allopathic program), which has an OMM clinic to which allopathic residents refer patients to their osteopathic counterparts in the program. By infiltrating the allopathic world, we are slowly but surely making an impact and image, and gaining further respect in the medical profession in general.

The second reason for accepting such a combination is to enhance the number of students who match into osteopathic programs. Often, students reason that they must apply to allopathic programs because mathematically, there are not enough osteopathic internship spots for the graduating osteopathic class. However, currently, many osteopathic spots are unfilled. This does not bode well for the profession.

One major factor influencing this is the fact that students are forced to make the match choice. There are many students considering both allopathic and osteopathic choices, and if given the choice, would apply to both. Too often, students will choose to forego the osteopathic match, and only apply to the allopathic match, because they are qualified for the latter. Although they may be interested in lucrative opportunities in the osteopathic match, their dueling interests are won over by the increased prominence of the allopathic program. By punishing this and by exerting a harder line by firming the barricade between allopathic and osteopathic programs, this only induces a reaction formation that is very unfortunate in the student body—the future generation of osteopathic physicians. (Dr. Beehler, who visited our school last year with you, emphasized this point by talking about the need for the AOA to embrace all DO’s including those who have completed allopathic residencies and those considering them.) By implementing the combination match, students will no longer feel this antagonism, and will feel freer to express their interest in their selected osteopathic programs, thus increasing the possibility they will match in such programs.

We sincerely believe that by combing the match, the opportunities available to osteopathic medical students will increase, especially by increasing filling of osteopathic spots and by increasing the recognition of the osteopathic community in the public.

Therefore, we ask the American Osteopathic Association to make it’s official stance in support of a combined AOA/ACGME match to begin as soon as possible. This stance is necessary for the AMA to consider this combination, as they recently stated in one of their resolutions:

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/15/i04_actions_a.pdf
PAGE 9

Resolution 9 asks that our AMA-MSS support the collaborative efforts in the education of
both osteopathic and allopathic students and graduates by endorsing the concept of a
combined Match to commence for the graduating class of 2006; and also that this
endorsement be forwarded to the AMA HOD, owing to the time sensitive nature of this
issue, for immediate action during this session of the AMA HOD.
There was substantial testimony provided on this issue. The Chair of the Council of
Osteopathic Student Government Presidents (COSGP) testified that the American
Osteopathic Association (AOA) does not have an official stance on this issue, but it is
currently studying it and will make a decision in February 2005. Your Reference
Committee supports the spirit of this resolution, but feels that it is premature for the AMA
to make a decision before the AOA has reached a final consensus. We encourage the
AMA-MSS to look at this issue again pending a decision by the AOA.

This is a decision we believe will serve the osteopathic profession well for years to come.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Name (Print)/Signature/School/Graduating Year/Email/Phone#

 

[JohnDO]

The overall letter looks good, though it definitely needs revisions. Thank you for taking this initiative. I think there was another letter posted earlier in this thread, I want to thank that author as well. Here are a few suggestions. Some issues you have addressed, some you have not.

Knowing the current administration is primarily concerned with "losing our identity", any letter which seeks to effectively argue in favor of a dual match must adequately explain why osteopathic physicians will not lose their identify by entering an allopathic residency. Assure them, as drusso said, that this is an issue of education, not of identity. It also needs to address other concerns the AOA may have.

I also believe the letter should touch on more than the two reasons stated. State the benefits for the AOA (more students considering osteopathic GME), state the benefits for the students, state the benefits for the osteopathic profession, state the benefits for osteopathic GME in general.

It also may want to address the issue of the AOA effectively excommunicating osteopathic physicians who have gone on to allopathic residencies, such as OldManDave. As touched upon in your first draft, it would be extremely advantageous for the AOA to embrace the osteopaths who are in this position.

One other suggestion I have is to be more concise and effective. Say less, but say more. The situations you mention don't need to be explained, merely mentioned. "The research Dr. blah blah harvard serves to blah blah".

Again, thanks for taking this initiative. You have my complete support (although I won't be an OMS till next fall). We all need to chip in ideas and comments here.

Thanks again!

 

[OldManDave]

After rereading my posts, I wanted to take a moment to make something crystal clear. I have nothing against the "old guard" - I hope to become an older, retired guy one too. However, allowing that subset of physicians is simply no longer a valid paradigm. The climate b/t public policy, insurance, medical-legal and all of the other monumental issues facing our profession are too rapidly evolving & dynamic to allow for people no longer fully & directly involved in practice to lead us. Yes, those folks are a massively valuable asset - they have survived many crisis of the past & their wisdom/counsel could only serve us well to listen. However, it is past time for the younger & mid-aged physicians to become intimately involved in our profession as leaders. No longer can we Docs simply duck our heads & focus exclusively upon medical practice. To be responsible professionals, we must also actively manage how our profession interacts with the rest of the world. Afterall, we are only a part of it & if we wish for our needs to play a roll in shaping the future, we need to make ourselves heard not only within our own leadership organizations (AOA & AMA); but also when negotiating with the mass of other professions we commonly interact with.

 

[stoic]

I'm not sure exactly how you guys are going to send these signatures, but for sheer volume effect, if you were to provide students with addressed envelopes and hardcopies of the petition and could get a good number (say 100) from each school sent in you would A) have signatures, return addresses, and whatever else contact info people wanted to provide and B) the effect of pouring potentially several thousand petition letters through the same office over the course of a few weeks. And that seems more likely to get attention than an electronic petition.

Though i suppose this would also mean you wouldn't have a record to refer to. My guess is that with an electronic petition you'd get a lot more responses, but that with a hard copy petition sent in by individuals the movement would be a lot more dramatic and a little harder to brush aside.

 

[OldManDave]

One quick suggestion...I have other things I must do right now...someone should extract the pertinent elements/entries of this conversation & start an independent thread. Title it appropriately & we should be able to attract input & hopefully support from many folks here on SDN. We might even consider cross-posting this in the pre-osteo are as well. Prior to doing the latter, I would show respect for the moderators & ask them for their consent to cross-post.

 

[JohnDO]

I would also suggest against the online petition simply because of credibility. An online petition has no way of confirming the validity of any signatures, people, credentials. Nor does it verify that each person has only signed once.

As stoic mentioned, one good way is to provide students with hardcopies and addressed envelopes. I'm not sure about the logistics of how it should be handled. Individual letters may scare some people away from signing and sending in a letter asking for such radical change. Is there any way for maybe one letter per school to be sent? This is something the current medical students need to figure out and agree upon.

 

[OldManDave]

I'm not sure exactly how you guys are going to send these signatures, but for sheer volume effect, if you were to provide students with addressed envelopes and hardcopies of the petition and could get a good number (say 100) from each school sent in you would A) have signatures, return addresses, and whatever else contact info people wanted to provide and B) the effect of pouring potentially several thousand petition letters through the same office over the course of a few weeks. And that seems more likely to get attention than an electronic petition.

Though i suppose this would also mean you wouldn't have a record to refer to. My guess is that with an electronic petition you'd get a lot more responses, but that with a hard copy petition sent in by individuals the movement would be a lot more dramatic and a little harder to brush aside.

OK...maybe one more post...

This strikes another idea. Finalize a petition first & then transfer it into pdf format. Then, recruit at least one person from each school & have them oversee the procurement of signatures on a local basis. One person, or group of people, would have to serve as overall coordinators to collect & submit all the copies of the petition & signatures.

Regarding individual physicians in AOA programs - this will likely prove to not be any more of a challenge than students. However, adopt a similar strategy, but select people at individual DO residency programs to accomplish a similar task: collect, collate & return to the over coordinators.

For folks like myself, either out of training or in AMA programs - this may prove to be the bug-a-boo. Only thing I can think of off the top of my head is to make the pdf version of the petition downloadable from a readily accessible place on the internet & allow us to sign & return the petition individually.

I would also suggest that someone PM Lee Burnett & ask him to drop by and read this thread, esp the latter portions. If we could earn his endorsement & support, maybe he'd be willing to aid us in this task?

 

[Bookworm]

btw, i forgot to mention it earlier but many thanks to docslytherin who posted the initial petition wording. that is where i got started, and you deserve a lot of the credit for taking the original initiative.

 

[PACtoDOC]

I'm not sure exactly how you guys are going to send these signatures, but for sheer volume effect, if you were to provide students with addressed envelopes and hardcopies of the petition and could get a good number (say 100) from each school sent in you would A) have signatures, return addresses, and whatever else contact info people wanted to provide and B) the effect of pouring potentially several thousand petition letters through the same office over the course of a few weeks. And that seems more likely to get attention than an electronic petition.

Though i suppose this would also mean you wouldn't have a record to refer to. My guess is that with an electronic petition you'd get a lot more responses, but that with a hard copy petition sent in by individuals the movement would be a lot more dramatic and a little harder to brush aside.

I completely agree!! That is why we need an official rep from each school to come up with a way to organize on their campus a way of "signing the petition and stuffing the envelope" campaign. I'll gladly donate the money for all the stamps at my school without heistation, and we just need more people to do the same. I propose one veteran SDNer to take charge and seek out one volunteer from each DO school, and communicate with all these people through a created email list.

Also, I like both petitions I read on this thread, but I think they could be shorter and more to the point. I felt like I was reading more of a history lesson than a statement to support. I am in favor of the KIS method (keep it simple).

 

[Bookworm]

lets agree on a final petition.

then we can divide up by school.



also do we want it to be a petition or a letter writing campaign.
depending on how many volunteers we can get, we might be able to get more signatures if it was a petition. (one letter from each school with a bunch of signatures)
or it could be a combination of both. it would be more feasible for physiciancs in residency programs to send letters?

 

[stoic]

if you guys want a veteran SDNer with experience in student leadership, you should PM DrMom.

She seems immensly qualified and motivated to spearhead a movement such as this. AND if anyone can get on Lee's good side, it's probably her.

 

[jhug]

good idea to tap into DrMom's experience...i also agree with making it a bit shorter. I would also suggest addressing the future president...
What if we set a goal date to send these in...if we picked feb.1st as the date for each school to get the petitions/letters signed, stamped, and sent. If 100 from each school (which i don't think is too unreasonable) sent a letter, 2000+ letters would HAVE to get the attention of those "leading" the AOA.

 

[mrm1682]

excellent work fellas! i think that the letter is a great start but as previously mentioned by others, it should be revised (which i'm sure it would have been anyway).

"oldmandave"--sorry if i sounded like i had a i-won't-do-anything-before-i'm-an-official-OMS attitude. that is definitely not the case. i just feel that people actively in the field (OMS or practicing DOs) will have a stronger voice in the situation. however, you guys have my full support and i would gladly sign this petition.

also, i have a suggestion as to how to get each school involved. how about emailing or writing a letter to each school's SGA? wouldn't they be the best contact for something like this? right now it seems like it's a SDN project. yes, there are a lot of students that browse this site but i know plenty of students that never browsed SDN. therefore, we should contact the schools directly to have an official contact (SGA president or whatever). they don't necessarily have to be the ones obtaining signatures but they will be a way to get a confirmed rep from each school.

 

[delicatefade]

I can help with CCOM - PM me when it's ready.

 

[Bookworm]

I also believe the letter should touch on more than the two reasons stated. State the benefits for the AOA (more students considering osteopathic GME), state the benefits for the students, state the benefits for the osteopathic profession, state the benefits for osteopathic GME in general.


Thanks again!

I understand and acknowledge your point about improving osteopathic GME--
a combined match would force osteopathic programs to ramp up the quality of their training because they know that they are directly competing with larger univ based allopathic programs for DO students. But in reading some of the other posts, i'm not sure how Dr. Thomas would react to this.

Is there a way that we can include it by somehow turning the issue so it seems like an osteopathic advantage? (in the spirit of the book: How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie)



so revisions so far:
included addressing it to Dr. Shettle (pres elect)

took out the text of resolution 9

i started to shorten it somewhat (partic in the beginning).

but more of your constructive criticism/feedback is needed. please feel free
to make revisions to the letter and post them.

here is what i have so far.

i know it's still too long.

==========================================================
George Thomas, DO
President
American Osteopathic Association

Philip L. Shettle, D.O.
President-Elect
American Osteopathic Association

Chicago Office – Main Headquarters
142 East Ontario Street
Chicago, IL 60611

CC:
Darryl A. Beehler, D.O
Immediate Past President
American Osteopathic Association


RE: Combined AOA/ACGME Match for 4th year medical students

Respected President and President-Elect:

Please accept our respects and greetings.

We, the undersigned osteopathic medical students and osteopathic physicians, are writing this letter asking you, Dr. Thomas and Dr. Shettle, to make the official stance of the American Osteopathic Association in support of a combined AOA/ACGME match. Currently, as you know, osteopathic students are forced to make a choice whether to participate in the AOA or ACGME match process.

We are proud to be part of the profession founded over 150 years ago by Andrew Taylor Still, and are very much invested in a strong future for our profession. As our president, you have consistently supported maintaining a strong osteopathic identity with an emphasis on osteopathic development and increased recognition in the medical community. We are in agreement with these ideals and as osteopathic medical students and physicians, we want to work to enhance these goals. We share your strong commitment to the osteopathic profession.

We believe it would be in the best interest of enhancing the osteopathic profession to be in favor of combining the two matches. The reasoning is multi-fold.

By explicitly allowing osteopathic students to match in allopathic institutions, it lends credibility to those OMSs who seek to match in such prominent institutions such as Harvard Medical School, John Hopkins University, The Cleveland Clinic, etc. The status and osteopathic competence that these students and physicians bring with them to these institutions enhances and increases the visibility of our profession. Just recently, it was reported in The DO that Harvard University was sponsoring an OMM course because of a DO on staff at Harvard, Dr. Darren Rosenberg. Dr. Rosenberg completed his residency at John Hopkins University and is definitely helping advance osteopathic medicine. Physicians like Dr. Rosenberg grant a positive distinction to our profession and strengthen our identity.

What better way for the American public to become more aware of DO’s than for DO’s to match and be on the staff of major teaching hospitals? The future of the osteopathic profession depends on research, producing leaders not just of the osteopathic community but the medical community – in short, we need osteopathic physicians to be leaders of their respective fields, publishing groundbreaking research including the role of osteopathic principles in diseases. What better way to do this than to “inject osteopathy” into residency programs all across the country whether allopathic or osteopathic?

Another example is the Christiana Care Hospital family medicine residency program (dually accredited allopathic program), which has an OMM clinic to which allopathic residents refer patients to their osteopathic counterparts in the program. By infiltrating the allopathic world, we are slowly but surely making an impact and image, and gaining further respect in the medical profession in general.

Another reason for accepting such a combination is to enhance the number of students who match into osteopathic programs. Often, students reason that they must apply to allopathic programs because mathematically, there are not enough osteopathic internship spots for the graduating osteopathic class. However, currently, many osteopathic spots are unfilled. This does not bode well for the profession.

One major factor influencing this is the fact that students are forced to make the match choice. There are many students considering both allopathic and osteopathic choices, and if given the choice, would apply to both. Too often, students will choose to forego the osteopathic match, and only apply to the allopathic match, because they are qualified for the latter. Although they may be interested in lucrative opportunities in the osteopathic match, their dueling interests are won over by the increased prominence of the allopathic program. By punishing this and by exerting a harder line by firming the barricade between allopathic and osteopathic programs, this only induces a reaction formation that is very unfortunate in the student body—the future generation of osteopathic physicians. (Dr. Beehler, who visited our school last year with you, emphasized this point by talking about the need for the AOA to embrace all DO’s including those who have completed allopathic residencies and those considering them.) By implementing the combination match, students will no longer feel this antagonism, and will feel freer to express their interest in their selected osteopathic programs, thus increasing the possibility they will match in such programs.

We sincerely believe that by combing the match, the opportunities available to osteopathic medical students will increase, especially by increasing filling of osteopathic spots and by increasing the recognition of the osteopathic community in the public.

Therefore, we ask the American Osteopathic Association to make it’s official stance in support of a combined AOA/ACGME match to begin as soon as possible.

This is a decision we believe will serve the osteopathic profession well for years to come.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Name (Print)/ Signature/ School/ Graduating Year/Email/Phone#

 

[Bookworm]

also to start the organization of who's doing what

volunteers from each school: any changes/additions welcome

PACtoDOC-UNT HSC/TCOM
delicatefade-CCOM
bookworm-UMDNJ SOM

 

[OldManDave]

excellent work fellas! i think that the letter is a great start but as previously mentioned by others, it should be revised (which i'm sure it would have been anyway).

"oldmandave"--sorry if i sounded like i had a i-won't-do-anything-before-i'm-an-official-OMS attitude. that is definitely not the case. i just feel that people actively in the field (OMS or practicing DOs) will have a stronger voice in the situation. however, you guys have my full support and i would gladly sign this petition.

also, i have a suggestion as to how to get each school involved. how about emailing or writing a letter to each school's SGA? wouldn't they be the best contact for something like this? right now it seems like it's a SDN project. yes, there are a lot of students that browse this site but i know plenty of students that never browsed SDN. therefore, we should contact the schools directly to have an official contact (SGA president or whatever). they don't necessarily have to be the ones obtaining signatures but they will be a way to get a confirmed rep from each school.

No biggie. My tirade was certainly not directed at you! You see, I feel as though my vouce is less than effective for reasons I have cited above.

 

[OldManDave]

Hey, I think we've hit on a solution for the situations I mentioned above. We can combine & do both!

First, the letter we are reworking can used in both situations - saves time & manpower. In the petition campaign, it can serve as the introduction to what the undersigned petitioners are advocating. This can be divvied up by school & by AOA residency program. I think that not only will there be great strength in the cumulative voices of the med students; but if we can also land a sufficient mass of sigs from DO residents & practitioners - that will substantially add to the force of impact.

Second, same general letter converted to pdf sent out by e-mail to any & all DOs out there willing to sign & return it to the AOA. This way we get folks out of residencies or those who are in AMA programs.

I will certainly volunteer, once the letter is finalized, to send copies to the KCOM SGA, Pres & Dean's office under my signature. Furthermore, I will sniff around Dartmouth, as there are quite a few DOs here and see if some them will sign on too.

 

[Shinken]

We, the undersigned osteopathic medical students and osteopathic physicians, are writing this letter asking you, Dr. Thomas and Dr. Shettle, to make the official stance of the American Osteopathic Association in support of a combined AOA/ACGME match. Currently, as you know, osteopathic students are forced to make a choice whether to participate in the AOA or ACGME match process.

Not quite right. DO students don't have to make the choice. You can apply to both. If you match DO, you're done, if not you can still match MD. After all, you're a DO student, right? (just playing devil's advocate here...this is the way the AOA is going to think).

We are proud to be part of the profession founded over 150 years ago by Andrew Taylor Still,

Ouch...not a good way to make your point. Osteopathic medicine was founded 130 years ago, not over 150 years ago.

By explicitly allowing osteopathic students to match in allopathic institutions, it lends credibility to those OMSs who seek to match in such prominent institutions such as Harvard Medical School, John Hopkins University, The Cleveland Clinic, etc. The status and osteopathic competence that these students and physicians bring with them to these institutions enhances and increases the visibility of our profession. Just recently, it was reported in The DO that Harvard University was sponsoring an OMM course because of a DO on staff at Harvard, Dr. Darren Rosenberg. Dr. Rosenberg completed his residency at John Hopkins University and is definitely helping advance osteopathic medicine. Physicians like Dr. Rosenberg grant a positive distinction to our profession and strengthen our identity.

Good. Probably the best paragraph in the letter.

What better way for the American public to become more aware of DO’s than for DO’s to match and be on the staff of major teaching hospitals? The future of the osteopathic profession depends on research, producing leaders not just of the osteopathic community but the medical community – in short, we need osteopathic physicians to be leaders of their respective fields, publishing groundbreaking research including the role of osteopathic principles in diseases. What better way to do this than to “inject osteopathy” into residency programs all across the country whether allopathic or osteopathic?

You can already apply to residency programs all across the country whether allo or osteo. Not a very convincing argument, particularly for people that already have made up their minds that the combined match isn't going to happen. Also, there are DO's all over the country in allopathic hospitals already, and people still don't know what a DO is. Combining the match won't necessarily guarantee that more DO grads will match in prominent hospitals.

Another reason for accepting such a combination is to enhance the number of students who match into osteopathic programs. Often, students reason that they must apply to allopathic programs because mathematically, there are not enough osteopathic internship spots for the graduating osteopathic class. However, currently, many osteopathic spots are unfilled. This does not bode well for the profession.

I don't see how making it easier to apply to both allo & osteo would increase the number of people that match into osteo programs. If anything, it would decrease the number even further. This paragraph needs to be more convincing.

One major factor influencing this is the fact that students are forced to make the match choice. There are many students considering both allopathic and osteopathic choices, and if given the choice, would apply to both. Too often, students will choose to forego the osteopathic match, and only apply to the allopathic match, because they are qualified for the latter. Although they may be interested in lucrative opportunities in the osteopathic match, their dueling interests are won over by the increased prominence of the allopathic program. By punishing this and by exerting a harder line by firming the barricade between allopathic and osteopathic programs, this only induces a reaction formation that is very unfortunate in the student body—the future generation of osteopathic physicians. (Dr. Beehler, who visited our school last year with you, emphasized this point by talking about the need for the AOA to embrace all DO’s including those who have completed allopathic residencies and those considering them.) By implementing the combination match, students will no longer feel this antagonism, and will feel freer to express their interest in their selected osteopathic programs, thus increasing the possibility they will match in such programs.

The first few sentences are bad because they antagonize the AOA people. You're basically telling them that you're so "good" that you want to go allo instead of osteo. The "induces a reaction formation" sentence I don't quite understand. Should it be "more free" instead of "freer"? (not sure).

We sincerely believe that by combing the match, the opportunities available to osteopathic medical students will increase, especially by increasing filling of osteopathic spots and by increasing the recognition of the osteopathic community in the public.

It should be "combining" and not "combing." Also, I still don't see a good, solid argument as to why combining the matches will increase the filling of osteopathic spots. Like I said, if anything, the combined match will decrease the filled osteo spots (because most likely, students will rank MD spots above DO spots, and we're so good we'll probably get them).

Therefore, we ask the American Osteopathic Association to make it’s official stance in support of a combined AOA/ACGME match to begin as soon as possible.

It should be "its official stance" and not "it's official stance."

Overall an interesting letter and many good and valid opinions on this thread. It's going to be difficult to convince the AOA to reverse its decision, but there's no harm in trying, especially in a professional way like you're doing here.

 

[Thousandth]

I'll take it on for DMU. PM me when you have a final. I should point out that the actual signature drive should wait till after the new year. DMU, as I am sure all other schools, is in its final week of school so there is really no time with the test load we have.

 

[jhug]

thanks for playing devils advocate...that really helps to focus on what needs to be expressed...really the debate comes down to the better the education, the better the exposure. The better the exposure, the better for the profession. Help us help our profession.

The sooner the AOA realizes that the more students/physicians out impressing the rest of the world, the more recognition/respect we'll get from the rest of the world.


I'll help out with azcom, i'll talk to our sga pres and see what we can do...

 

[DrMom]

if you guys want a veteran SDNer with experience in student leadership, you should PM DrMom.

She seems immensly qualified and motivated to spearhead a movement such as this. AND if anyone can get on Lee's good side, it's probably her.

I'm glad you guys are interested and motivated. Give me some time to look all of these posts over more closely. I'm in an odd spot b/c I'm on an AOA committee that has been dealing with this issue (among other issues that are pertinent to our futures). I'm trying to be as proactive as possible, which is why I applied for the committee position. That put me in a good place to be a voice for the students, but it also leaves me in a spot where I need to work with the system as much as I can.

I really encourage you guys to take action: write letters, be involved in student government or SOMA, apply for an AOA committee. These things all make a difference. I we can go out there and present our arguments in a mature, respectful manner we will be heard. While there are many of the "old school" DOs out there, there are a large # of DOs that are working on our side. They need to hear about our needs and they need our support.

Again, I can't stress enough: get involved. Don't just sit there and complain.

 

[Elysium]

I'd be willing to bring the final draft of the letter to my classmates at TUCOM-NV. I know a lot of people would love to sign it.

Post or PM when you have the final draft!

 

[PACtoDOC]

Lets set a tentative date to have this letter done by say January 15th. Then, at least here at TCOM, I plan on putting one in every mailbox of students in all 4 years of education. The letter needs to be short so they will take the time to read it and sign it. Then I will collect all the letters via my mailbox, and I will request advisement from my school's SOMA reps and SGA leaders asfor what to with the letters. Perhaps we could have a little "stuff the envelope" party and mail the letters directly to the AOA, or perhaps we should forward them through COSGP and let them take the lead. Someone from my school already emailed me and said that he heard through some official channels that the reason the AOA did not support the resolution was because they felt backdoor'ed so-to-speak because it was not sent through them. I can sort of understand that. But when they have 10,000 letters to deal with, maybe then they will take it up again from the AOA direction.

So, final draft of letter ready for disbursment by January 15th? Kapish?
Each school does not necessarily need to use the same letter, or technique to forward the petition/letters. In fact, a diverse approach shows less "rubberstamp" mentality and presents better as multiple brushfires, not just one big inferno fueled potentially by a few people gaining a bunch of signatures.