1. Dismiss Notice
  2. Download free Tapatalk for iPhone or Tapatalk for Android for your phone and follow the SDN forums with push notifications.
    Dismiss Notice

Bad News for IMGs, 5000 extra AMGs this year!

Discussion in 'General Residency Issues' started by drsunnyking, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. drsunnyking

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I read in the AAMC newsletter that there are going to be 5000 more AMG this year for match.They got admitted in the year 2007 in med school but there is no addition of seats in the residency programs then how is it gonna happen.
    will they capture the seats of IMGs? coz anyhow AMG's will be given first preference..is this really true????

    so why are so much imgs applying this year if they cant get residencies?????are they wasting their time????
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. mlw03

    mlw03 Senior Member
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
    3,127
    Likes Received:
    125
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    May I suggest toning down the punctuation and using slightly better grammar if you wish to obtain a residency, whether you're an American graduating from Harvard or a FMG from a tiny school in the middle of the Pacific ocean. Relax. Breathe. Repeat.
     
  4. Doctor4Life1769

    Doctor4Life1769 **tr0llin, ridin dirty**
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    Messages:
    34,260
    Likes Received:
    901
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
  5. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,850
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    There isn't a set policy that AMG's get "first preference", but at most places that's how it will work out. A program is going to be happier with a US grad who knows the system, speaks the language and has evaluations from US attendings that indicate they have proven during med school that they will probably make good residents. Not to mention that they have no Visa issues and don't create issues for xenophobic patients. Some places will still opt for the brilliant IMG with crazy high Step scores over the bottom of the barrel US grad, but probably not all that many.

    I think we will see a lot of US grads pushed into the community slots previously grabbed up by IMGs. This combined with elimination of prematches under the new rules is going to be a big hit for IMGs. The goal is for US schools to fill US slots, and the next few years are likely to make a sizeable dent in this.
     
  6. Paddington

    Paddington SDN Lifetime Donor
    Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    27
  7. gutonc

    gutonc No Meat, No Treat
    Administrator Physician PhD 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    17,324
    Likes Received:
    9,619
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I think the OP is being a bit of a spaz here but....

    I've said it before (and should probably say it in PA where it will be the most helpful but be met with responses similar to the OP's post) and will say it again. If you're listening to your dad/uncle/grandpa telling you that it's no big deal to go offshore for med school and you'll be able to get a residency in whatever you want...you need to recalibrate your bullsh*t meter.

    That statement was completely true in the 70s, more or less true in the 80s, kind of true in the 90s, a borderline lie in the 00s and completely bogus in the 10s. Assuming a continuation of the current residency funding climate (in no way a given but it's what we've got for now so let's go with it), I predict that IMGs will make up a tiny fraction (~5%) of entering residency classes in 5-10 years.
     
  8. cyneuron

    cyneuron cyneuron
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Post Doc
    I doubt it. The increase in number of medical school seat has been a gradual process. As far as I know, this increase will lead to a balanced equation of US med school seats and residency seats by about 2014-2015.

    Surely because of this gradual increase, getting US medical residency has become and is bound to become difficult in coming years.

    (It is because of the gap between US med school seats and residency slots that IMG's have been accepted in US medical residencies since many years. )

    Did you even check the legibility of this figure you are giving, i.e., all 5000 seats increased in 2007 ? If you can, please share the link.
     
    #7 cyneuron, Aug 16, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  9. cyneuron

    cyneuron cyneuron
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Post Doc
    Not in this year's Match. This rule applies from next year.
     
  10. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,850
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I doubt it will be 5000 seats in one year, but there are probably close to that many additional people in the pipeline at this point. Most US allo med schools had increased seats each year to try to get to a total increase of 10-15% per AAMC request. This combined with the number of new schools that have opened probably means a big dent on the number of US seniors starting this year.
     
  11. jdh71

    jdh71 epiphany at nine thousand six hundred feet
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    66,242
    Likes Received:
    39,617
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I would imagine the real issue is more related to the visa. It costs money. AMGs simply save GME money by not having to deal with that stuff.
     
  12. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,850
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    So next year then. If that gives someone a shot to squeak in under the wire, then by all means take your shot.
     
  13. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,850
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Nah, IMGs still have issues landing spots even if they don't have visa issues.
     
  14. cyneuron

    cyneuron cyneuron
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Post Doc
    OK OP. I am sure now that you have written this post to create panic among FMG/IMG.

    Here is Nov. 2009 AAMC post -

    "Enrollment grew by 2 percent this year, with just less than 18,400 students entering medical school this fall. Since 2002, 57 medical schools have boosted their enrollment by more than 10 percent."

    Full post here - Medical School Enrollment Increases To Meet Growing Physician Demand

    So by OP's figure, in year 2007 there was a 27 % (5,000/ 18,400 x 100) increase in medical school seats in year 2007, which is ahead of impossible.

    I request Moderators to please delete this post before few naive / less informed IMG get in panic mode.
     
    #13 cyneuron, Aug 16, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  15. jdh71

    jdh71 epiphany at nine thousand six hundred feet
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    66,242
    Likes Received:
    39,617
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    :lame:

    nevermind
     
  16. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,850
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Well, there were 16599 US seniors in the match this past March according to NRMP, so if there were 18,400 students entering med school in 2009, that's about 1800 more people in the pipeline. Of course this figure has to be decreased by the amount of attrition (very small), and increased by the number of folks who took a year to research or otherwise delayed the match (similarly small). No matter how you slice it, it will account for a lot of residency seats that otherwise would have been filled from outside the country.
     
  17. drsunnyking

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
  18. drsunnyking

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    haha.so you think that our scores can put us above US graduates???its ridiculous.because they will get preference above us in every case..so there is no chance for imgs from this year on until and unless residency slots are not increased in big amount,which is highly unlikely because of down economy of government..stop being optimistic.i have confirmed that news from a US program director.bye bye usmle
     
  19. moto_za

    moto_za Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,584
    Likes Received:
    43
    Calm down.
     
  20. 2012mdc

    2012mdc Enjoying the Dark Side
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    8
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    it's match season. it's impossible for some to remain calm.

    match season -> mass hysteria among AMG's and IMG's alike :scared::scared::scared:
     
  21. Paddington

    Paddington SDN Lifetime Donor
    Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    27
    Well, there's several people that are going to get squeezed.

    IMG's and FMG's will scramble for a dwindling number of MD spots. DO's might make out OK if their whole DO world adds more spots for them, which admittedly, I pay very little attention to. But if they don't, then they too will be squeezed.

    Marginal US MD candidates will also find themselves without jobs. It used to be that pretty much every US MD got a job somewhere. But in the future, that won't be the case. Program directors favor US MD's, but they will take a IMG/FMG/DO with strong credentials over a US MD with multiple Step failures, 5+ years to graduate, etc. if presented with that choice.

    I think already, this past year was the first match in which a significant number of US MD's were without jobs. That phenomenon will only get worse and will really suck for someone $300K in debt.
     
  22. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,850
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    according to NRMP, 94% of us allo seniors matched this year compared to 93% last year. So actually things got better for us seniors. What changed was a big increase of us seniors into primary care fields, at the expense of other groups. Expect this trend to continue.
     
  23. Paddington

    Paddington SDN Lifetime Donor
    Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    27
    I think it wasn't just the match. I think I also saw some figures that included people that had to scramble, and this year a lot of U.S. seniors weren't able to scramble.
     
  24. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,850
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Well there were marginally more US seniors in this past match so if the usual number scrambled that could still leave a few more folks with nothing in hand than last year. I'd want to see data before we could call it "a lot" though, since the match percentages were actually up and the number of residency spots were essentially stable and I doubt too many of us in residency would report in that their programs filled with IMGs when previously they were taking mostly US grads. More people in the system means more people in the scramble which means more people at risk for not landing a spot. This however doesn't mean that the percentage of US folks with a spot isn't going up. As the numbers go up, it may be that hypothetically 1% of US folks end up without a spot instead of 2% a year ago. But in raw numbers this could still mean more people on the street. But that still doesn't bode well for IMGs.
     
  25. drsunnyking

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    so guys what u think approximately how many IMGs will be able to get match in 2012,2013,2014 and 2015...???i remember last year 7400 IMGs got it.thanx in anticipation.....
     
    #24 drsunnyking, Aug 18, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  26. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,850
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Well, from what folks have written here it sounds like 1800 more US seniors will hit the match in 2012, and this number presumably will increase a bit each subsequent year. So if 7400 IMGs got in this past year, probably will dip down to closer to 5000 in the next couple of years.
     
  27. drsunnyking

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
  28. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,850
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    It doesn't really say that. It says the total of IMGs with first year jobs will exceed the number who match, thanks to pre matches. It's just poorly worded. Also bear in mind that value MD caters to a very select audience, and so what you see posted for that audiences consumption may or may not reflect the conventional wisdom found on SDN and places which focus in on the US senior side of the equation. In other words you are more likely to have smoke blown up your $&@ there rather than here.
     
  29. drsunnyking

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    hahaha.are you a doctor??i suppose u even cant read a document carefully....what is meant by this line
    ( it is important to note that the total number of IMGs who will fill PGY-1 positions for the 2011-2012 academic year will be higher than the number obtaining positions through the 2011 Match)????????
     
  30. gutonc

    gutonc No Meat, No Treat
    Administrator Physician PhD 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    17,324
    Likes Received:
    9,619
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Wait, who can't read?

    It means exactly what L2D said already. Read the following very carefully and then go take a Xanax (or the other way around).

    The total number of IMGs filling PGY1 (intern) spots next year will be greater than the number of IMGs who successfully Match into PGY1 spots through NRMP. This is because IMGs can (and often do) get pre-match positions and are therefore not counted in the NRMP match statistics.

    Perhaps a couple of equations will help.

    (IMG PGY1 Pre-match) + (IMG PGY1 NRMP Match) = Total IMG PGY1 Filled Positions

    IMG PGY1 NRMP Match < Total IMG PGY1 Filled Positions
     
  31. physicsnerd42

    physicsnerd42 Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    65
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    You're awfully rude (and incoherent) for someone asking for an answer to a question. L2D is a resident with more than 20,000 posts, so I'd be careful about insulting him/her. L2D is also a lawyer and has a bit more experience parsing documents than you do.
     
  32. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST
    Physician Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2002
    Messages:
    19,211
    Likes Received:
    3,576
    "L2D" also makes stuff up out of whole cloth and will not provide any evidence for the lies s/he offers. This is documented (which means it's factual, which means it's not insulting). It's not even clear that s/he IS a resident. S/he has the "physician" badge, so s/he has affirmatively shown someone at SDN that s/he is a doctor, but that is it. There is little substance, if any, to his/her posts, beyond opinions to maintain the status quo, and that the employee/student/resident is always wrong, and that the employer/management/government is always right (or will have their way, so don't even bother to do anything about it).
     
  33. jdh71

    jdh71 epiphany at nine thousand six hundred feet
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    66,242
    Likes Received:
    39,617
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    While I agree L2D is often full of ****, you need a license# to get the doctor tab. He could have submitted a bogus one, but that seems like a lot of extra work just to pretend on SDN
     
  34. J-Rad

    Physician Moderator Emeritus 15+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2003
    Messages:
    3,542
    Likes Received:
    20
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Please keep this thread on topic. Individual beefin' is discouraged...move on.
     
  35. Prop

    Prop New Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    No matter how one feel about L2D, in this instance he's right on the money. A lot of IMGs sign outside the match explaining the discrepancy between number of IMGs matching and total number of IMGs starting PGY-1. It's obvious that OP didn't understand it, since it's impossible to predict how many IMGs will match in 2012 (if this was possible one could earn a lot of money!).

    I think it's very disturbing that some IMGs feel entitled to residency positions in the US (and just to clear up - I'm an IMG going for the match this year). Of course program directors are going to choose the mediocre US senior above the IMG, eventhough the latter may have superior board scores, research and work experience. It's not just a matter of credentials but also about cultural understanding, knowledge on the medical system etc.
    In my home country we have a lot of Eastern European trained MDs, but still citizens are preferred for most residency positions. I don't think this is discrimination rather than knowing that a locally trained MD knows the medical system, and are able to communicate with the patients on a whole other level.
    In our profession, where taking a thorough history often is essential to the best treatment, communication and language skills become so much more important and therefore local trained MDs will always be preferred.

    As an IMG I think one should appreciate the fact that it's even possible to get residency in the US (eventhough only 50% of us match). US residency spots should primarily be for US MDs, since they're going to stay in the US. The rest of us must accept the remaining positions - if one can't accept that, maybe one should go for residency in another place.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  36. islandCrazy

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    I read that article and it stated in the article that its first year enrollment in 2012 should be up by 5000 students since the year 2007.
     
  37. Obnoxious Dad

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    223
    Status:
    Non-Student
    This past fall there were about 18,400 first year MD students and 5,200 first year DO students in the US. That's a total of 23,600 and with 5% attrition you will see 22,420 new grads from American schools looking for a residency in 2014.

    If you look at page 57/65 of this ACGME file you will see that there were 25,865 ACGME "pipeline" slots in the US. http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/dataBook/2009-2010_ACGME_Data_Resource_Book.pdf

    If you add the 25,865 to the 1,930 non-intern osteopathic slots you get 27,795 slots.

    That will leave about 5,350 slots for FMG/IMG applicants unless there is a significant change in the number of residency slots.
     
  38. Gute

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
     
  39. lipomas

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    884
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    He already said.

    The category of "IMGs filling PGY-1 positions" includes two subcategories.

    1) IMGs who fill the position through the match
    2) IMGs who fill the position in a method other than the match (i.e. prematch).

    The number of people in #2 is not at all trivial.


    Increasing the number of AMGs in the pool would be a good thing, and it would have effect at the expense of IMGs. Excellent, qualified IMGs are unlikely to see that much of an impact since these individuals are currently competitive for top residencies as it is now. No offense, but I'm guessing that you are not in this category.

    Bear in mind that any increase in AMGs will come primarily from these new, often "for profit" med schools which are proliferating like flies around the country. These schools often attract marginal candidates as well.
     
  40. godson

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    9
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Though, new medical schools have opened up and the number of AMG's will increase in the coming years, it hasn't really shown up in the recent matches. It's unlikely that this year's match will be any different for IMG's though 2013 onwards they might take a hit, though 5000 seems an exaggeration at this point. The NRMP data for 2011 throws up some interesting facts (Page 9 - http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf )
    1. For Non- US citizen students/IMG's the match rate (PGY1) improved in 2011 (40.9%) compared to 2010 (39.8%)
    2. The number of active applicants in this category decreased by 587 over last year.
    3. From 2007 to 2009 there was an increase in the number of applicants in this category and ever since, it's shown a downward trend.
    4. Compared to 2007, 4.6% less doctors matched in this year's match in this category.
    5. PGY1 positions have increased over the years (Page 11- http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf). Since 1976 (16,112 PGY1 spots), every year has shown spots being added to PGY1 (2011 match: 23,421). In fact 2011 match had 612 additional PGY1 spots over the 2010 match.

    "The Association of American Medical Colleges, a trade group, has called for a 30 percent increase in enrollment, or about 5,000 more doctors a year. The association’s Center for Workforce Studies estimates that 3,500 more M.D.s will enter graduate training over the next 10 years, roughly half of the 7,000 international medical school graduates now entering medical residencies in the United States every year, according to Edward Salsberg, director of the center." -- source : http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/15/education/15medschools.html

    I may be naive in believing that IMG's will still be as welcome in US as they have been all these years, or atleast in the near future, inspite of the attrition in IMG friendly residency spots. Then again, thats just me. I look at the glass half full and numbers shouldn't deter you, coz it aint like you are gunning to be the POTUS.
     
  41. Socrates25

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    27
    Status:
    Attending Physician


    Any news release w/ stats cited by the AAMC is a joke, because they pretend that DO schools dont exist. So really, take their numbers and double it, becasue DO programs have been expanding like crazy.

    Here's a real list of new med schools that includes expansions, new branch campuses, and both MD and DO programs. The results arent pretty:

    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=825147
     
  42. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,850
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Well you can't really double it because (1) there are only about as third as many DO schools as allo schools, and (2) some percentage of these go to DO residencies that weren't open to IMGs anyhow. But yes, more DOs does mean additional competition for IMGs. The AAMC doesn't pretend DOs don't exist, but certainly doesn't include them in the numbers of allopathic US seniors. This is the allo match. Osteopaths have their own governing bodies and their own match which I'm sure focuses on their own numbers.
     
  43. Socrates25

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    27
    Status:
    Attending Physician

    I wouldnt fault the AAMC if they used terms like "allopathic medical schools" or "allopathic match"

    But they dont do that. Read the article below. It clearly implies TOTAL US med schools and ignores the DO effect which is absurd. Any lay man (or even an uninformed doctor) would assume from the article below that they are talking about ALL medical schools, not just a subset. The AAMC is being PURPOSEFULLY MISLEADING with their propaganda.

    https://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/nov09/88040/nov09_medschool.html



    Medical School Enrollment Increases To Meet Growing Physician Demand


    &#8212;By Sarah Mann
    U.S. medical schools continued to expand enrollment this year to meet the increasing demand for more doctors, according to new AAMC data.
    Enrollment grew by 2 percent this year, with just less than 18,400 students entering medical school this fall. Since 2002, 57 medical schools have boosted their enrollment by more than 10 percent.
    Two forces contributed to the increase in enrollment, according to AAMC President and CEO Darrell G. Kirch, M.D. Four new medical schools &#8212; Florida International University Herbert Wertheim College of Medicine; The Commonwealth Medical College in Scranton, Pa.; Texas Tech University Paul L. Foster School of Medicine; and the University of Central Florida College of Medicine &#8212; enrolled a total of 189 students. In addition, 12 existing medical students expanded their class sizes by at least 7 percent. "U.S. medical schools are really stepping up in order to keep the pipeline of new physicians flowing so that all Americans have access to health care," Kirch said.
    The number of medical school applicants remained stable, with 42,269 applicants in 2009, compared with 42,231 in 2008.
    Kirch noted that medical school enrollment will continue to increase next year, when a new medical school, the Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine, is expected to seat its charter class. Moreover, three other schools are currently in the formal stages of development: Central Michigan University School of Medicine, Touro University College of Medicine in New Jersey, and Hofstra University School of Medicine in New York.
    Additionally, an increase in the number of people sitting for the Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT)® could be an early indicator that applications are likely to increase in 2010.
    "The 2010 applicant pool is following a similar path compared to this time last year, and we continue to be very hopeful the pool will increase given the 3 percent increase in MCAT examinees," said Gwen Garrison, Ph.D., AAMC director of student and applicant studies.
    While Kirch lauded the enrollment increase as a necessary step in warding off a national physician shortage, he noted that this move will only be successful if there is a corresponding rise in graduate medical education (GME) slots. The AAMC Center for Workforce Studies has predicted a shortage of 124,000- 159,000 physicians by 2025. As of late October, the perceived high costs associated with the Resident Physician Shortage Reduction Act, which would increase the number of Medicare-supported residency positions by 15,000, made it unlikely that the act would be included in final health care reform legislation. None of the health care reform bills currently before Congress would increase GME slots, but would redistribute about 1,000 unused residency positions. According to AAMC estimates, the shortage reduction act would add about 40,000 new physicians over 10 years, while redistribution would add about 3,000.
    "The very bottom line is that our medical schools in the U.S. are working hard to meet the demand for more physicians," Kirch said. "We are advocating strongly for increases in the funding for residency training positions because if we don't, we face the possibility of very significant physician shortages."
    It is unlikely the economic downturn had an effect on 2009 applications because applications were submitted between June and September of last year, before the decline in U.S. and global stock markets.
    "I think that even with the economic downturn, there is still the fact that medicine is a very compelling career," Kirch said.
    Kirch added that medical schools have increased efforts to provide scholarships to students to address rising tuition and student debt and continue to attract top students.
    The applicant data revealed good news for black medical school students and applicants, traditionally among the most underrepresented in the medical field. Black applicants rose 4 percent compared with 2008, and black enrollees are at their highest point since 1999, representing 7 percent of all new medical students.
    "We are certainly glad to see a rise in the applicant pool and more African-American enrollees," Garrison said.
    Among Hispanic and Latino populations, applications decreased about 1 percent from 2008, with 3,061 applicants. Applications from American Indians decreased about 5 percent to 379 from 400 in 2008, while enrollees decreased to 153 from 172 last year. The number of both white and Asian American students who applied and enrolled increased slightly from 2008.
    Female applicants were down slightly to 20,252 this year from 20,360 in 2008, while male applicants increased from 21,870 last year to 22,014 this year. Although male enrollees outnumbered female enrollees by 52 percent to 48 percent, Kirch noted that the number of female enrollees has steadily increased since 1992.
    The academic quality of applicants continues to be high, with the average MCAT exam score and undergraduate grade point average remaining relatively unchanged from last year. The percentage of applicants who had experience with research or who had volunteered in a medical or clinical capacity remained about the same over last year, while the percentage of applicants with nonmedical community service experience increased slightly.
     
  44. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,850
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    The AAMC is the educational organization governing allopaths, and the NRMP match is the allopathic match. Osteo has it's own organization and match. When you read a press release from the AAMC the word allopathic is implied in front of their statements. It's not intentionally misleading, it's an organization talking about it's own constituency. Much as if you were reading a press release from Canada talking about it's citizens, you wouldn't fault them for not putting in the word Canadian to differentiate them from other nations.
     
  45. sia_simba

    sia_simba Senior Member
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    5
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Back to the OP comment instead of going off topic...

    1. Its NOT 5000 more AMG applicants this year. so calm down.

    2. Osteopathic students have their osteopathic match which goes unfilled from year to year due to good amount of students applying in the allopathic match.

    3. Whether its increased in 2012 match or 2013 match, it doesn't make a difference. We have more physician now than 20 years ago due to health care policy. However, recent changes might alter the pendulum.

    4. FMG/IMG will always be regarded lower in terms of resident selection despite excellent merit among some of them.

    Thank you!
     
  46. caribbeanjp17

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2010
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Same Talk, Different year. i can pull up a forum with this same headline 10 yrs ago.

    but i know i know, THIS YEARR is different
     
  47. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels
    Moderator Physician Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    9,669
    Likes Received:
    1,395
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Technically, it is a different year from the different year when this was made :D
     
  48. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    9,850
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Well, ten years ago there weren't as many new programs and the AAMC hadn't started it's push to have all existing med schools increase their ranks by 15%. then again there wasn't as much impact last year as people were expecting. We will wait and see, but I think saying "same old same old" might be a head in the sand (no Caribbean island pun intended) approach.
     
  49. handwriting

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Okay, so I'm an IMG, and I'll be participating in the 2013 match.

    ...and I've been thinking. Consider the US-born/raised IMG. He goes offshore to learn his basic sciences. He comes back to the states and does his rotations in American hospitals. So then I ask...is it really important where someone learned his basic sciences? Are textbooks better on the mainland or something?

    What if that student does really well (great Step scores, great average, good ECs) and gets respectable recommendations from doctors at US hospitals? Is that person really all that different from an AMG?

    I guess IMGs will always have cooties. However, when a program director looks over that IMG's app, the only aspect of that person's app that will differ from an AMG's will be the school itself.

    I know that not all IMGs share the same route (i.e. not all IMGs are US citizens who went abroad), but for those who did their basic sciences out of the US (and there are thousands of these folks)...they're not that different from their AMG brethren.

    These students just might stand a "decent" chance at matching into their desired specialties/places.
     
  50. wannabeOBGYN

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Depends which school they went to. Some Caribbean (and other) schools are known to be USMLE factories where all education is geared toward doing well on the boards and then the students get into rotations and are completely inept. Also, a lot more AMGs would be getting some of the ridiculously high board scores seen from IMGs if they took 6 months to a year off before rotations to study like a lot of IMGs do. Programs probably see IMGs differently because even though they did their rotations in the US, they didn't go to a US school... because they couldn't get in. So it doesn't matter if you use the same books, to them, you weren't good enough in the first place so what makes you good enough now?

    I'm not saying I agree with any or all of the above, this is all just what I've heard from a number of PDs and PCs throughout my interviews this season. That being said, best of luck to you and everyone else. :)
     
  51. handwriting

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I see what you're saying, and it's half true. Many of the students who get into Caribbean schools are not the cream of the crop. The rigors of med school usually weed these folks out. Most of the students who make it through with good stats have proved themselves, though, I'd say.

    The thing about admission into American med schools is that there are more good applicants than there are spots. Many worthy folk are simply unlucky. For that matter, a good handful of students who do make it into US schools aren't all that and a bag of chips, either. I personally know people who are retaking their first and second years, as well as people who are flat out failing out of US schools...and no, not due to some extenuating circumstances.

    As for IMGs being inept during clinicals...that simply isn't so. I'd like to think I'm not totally inept at the clinical side of medicine and getting along with patients and staff. hehe ;) I know plenty of IMGs who are rockin' their clinicals (I can mainly vouch for the US-born/raised students).

    Another thing I keep hearing is that Caribbean med school education is geared toward acing the Steps. First off, what does that really mean? What should schools teach? Should visiting professors come over and teach what they see in their daily practice...and then the school have the students fill in the gaps by themselves ('cause trust me, my school has VPs come over, too)? Some schools tend to teach in an efficient and comprehensive manner (I guess that means they teach toward the Steps). Also, why would a school not find it in its best interest to prepare students well for the Steps? The only reason why a med school should not teach toward the Steps is if that takes away from being a good thinker and doctor. Interestingly enough, the only way to teach toward the Steps is to teach one to analyze well (buzzwords and common scenarios will carry one only so far).

    I have a dream that IMGs will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the school they went to, but by the content of their stats (both hard and soft)...oh yeah, and their character.
     

Share This Page