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Ronin786 said:
Can somebody explain to me how BTC is supposed to be a currency of the future but also a growth asset? If its inherent value is in being used for transactions but everybody is holding onto it because of it's increasing value compared to USD, where does its utility lie?
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Multiple cryptos available with BTC being the primary onramp and Ethereum the computer for a lot of the transactions. Stablecoins can fly and are pegged to the dollar and backed dollar to dollar. USDC for example backed by Circle run in the Stellar ecosystem.

XRP looked like it was going to be the primary international currency of choice until SEC lawsuit.
 
chessknt said:
No you are.
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Been in the space for years, investing and now building. You come here asking questions, doubting anything I say and spewing nonsense. My advice to you would be comment less and learn from the gems I’m dropping. World is changing fast and you should open your mind to the change that’s occurring.
 
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This is the Shareholder letter that one of the Richest men in Norway sent out. He is keeping his treasury in Bitcoin and he's looking at working on solutions to decrease the carbon footprint and use renewables and strand energy that would be flared into the atmosphere. If youre still not a believer, at least earn bitcoin while you shop, using the fold app. You literally earn BTC while you shop. And they now have a debit card. My buddy who I golf with, earned 350,000 satoshi (smallest unit of bitcoin 1 Bitcoin = 100,000,000 satoshi) in bitcoin rewards simply for using the callaway app. It's literally free money for regular shopping. Might as well start stacking sats while you still don't believe. But if you're wrong, you'll have earned a nice stack. :cool:

Seetee
 

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vector2 said:
The expense ratio on GBTC is like 2%. They would've been better off just buying coins on one of the big exchanges.
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Yeah I don’t know why they bought GBTC instead of BTC on an exchange. Noticed ARK gets BTC exposure through GBTC too. Maybe there’s some regulatory reason they use GBTC.
 
My guess is custody solutions is why they use GBTC. The floodgates will open once an ETF is approved. Canada started a bitcoin ETF last month, and I think the US approves one sometime this year.
 
I am very bearish on crypto. BTC and many other cryptocurrencies are assets that are extrinsic stores of value. Calling it a fancy new currency is a pretty damn big leap of logic. The whole basis of BTC valuation is that because it is scarce it has value. While scarcity is ONE variable that contribute to valuation, scarcity in of itself means nothing. There are plenty of things in this world that are scarce AND worthless. BTC can't really be used for anything other than speculation. It is only worth as much as someone thinks it is worth, and there is nothing fundamentally different about BTC when the first coin was mined and when the last one will be mined. Ultimately I consider BTC to be a example of mass delusion.

The same can be said of gold and other precious metals. While these metals have some intrinsic value (e.g., gold has industrial applications, and people like it because it looks shiny) it is also largely an extrinsic store of value. Same of diamonds and precious gems.

I would rather hold onto an asset that has both combination of extrinsic and intrinsic store of value. The more intrinsic value the better. And this exists. SP500 or Nasdaq ETFs for instance. It is a collection of stocks of various publicly traded companies that have regularly reported profit margins to justify value. If their profits fall or if their long term prospects look worse, the value decreases. Vice versa.
 
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nimbus said:
Wine, classic cars, watches, baseball cards and NFTs?

www.cnbc.com

Beeple NFT becomes most expensive ever sold at auction after fetching over $60 million

An NFT by the artist Beeple sold at Christie's for over $60 million, making it the most expensive NFT ever sold at auction.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
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Why not make a nft of you pouring out a bottle of expensive wine or blowing up a classic car then selling it for more than the original item? We live in irrational exuberance where people are buying 'unique' jpeg/gifs that anyone can look at for free in the same way for awe inspiring amounts.
 
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coffeebythelake said:
I am very bearish on crypto. BTC and many other cryptocurrencies are assets that are extrinsic stores of value. Calling it a fancy new currency is a pretty damn big leap of logic. The whole basis of BTC valuation is that because it is scarce it has value. While scarcity is ONE variable that contribute to valuation, scarcity in of itself means nothing. There are plenty of things in this world that are scarce AND worthless. BTC can't really be used for anything other than speculation. It is only worth as much as someone thinks it is worth, and there is nothing fundamentally different about BTC when the first coin was mined and when the last one will be mined. Ultimately I consider BTC to be a example of mass delusion.

The same can be said of gold and other precious metals. While these metals have some intrinsic value (e.g., gold has industrial applications, and people like it because it looks shiny) it is also largely an extrinsic store of value. Same of diamonds and precious gems.

I would rather hold onto an asset that has both combination of extrinsic and intrinsic store of value. The more intrinsic value the better. And this exists. SP500 or Nasdaq ETFs for instance. It is a collection of stocks of various publicly traded companies that have regularly reported profit margins to justify value. If their profits fall or if their long term prospects look worse, the value decreases. Vice versa.
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You realize because of monetary policy of the Federal Reserve, the market price signals are distorted and we dont have an accurate of assessment of which corporation is thriving and which are the zombies? Good luck navigating through that minefield.

I could go on about why I'm right about Bitcoin, crypto and the digital revolution we are entering, but I'm not gonna change your mind. Since I started this thread last year, we've witness the early stages of corporate FOMO (Corporate BTC holdings), Crypto banking approved and started in Wyoming, The OCC allow banks to use public blockchains like BTC, for final settlement, Lots of legendary investors get into BTC (Paul Tudor Jones, Stanley Druckenmiller, et al), energy corporations looking at mining BTC using wasted and renewable energy to decrease the CO2 emissions. 12 years ago there were 0 BTC users, today there are at least 100 million. You think the number goes back to 0? Bitcoin is internet based money and we're entering a digital state. It makes so much sense to me.
 
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anonperson said:
Any thoughts on the price of ETH after this upgrade that's going to occur?

Redirect Notice

www.google.com
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I don't hold any ETH, but I know there's an issue with transaction fees, there are other platforms working on solving that. But ETH has the most mind capital working on their platform (especially DeFi) so hopefully they work it out. I like to focus on Sound money within the space. New submarkets are forming within the space (NFTs, DeFi, etc), some will thrive others will flame out or become niche markets. Fun times ahead.
 
chessknt said:
Why not make a nft of you pouring out a bottle of expensive wine or blowing up a classic car then selling it for more than the original item? We live in irrational exuberance where people are buying 'unique' jpeg/gifs that anyone can look at for free in the same way for awe inspiring
would you skip going to The Louvre? its the same concept
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Direct Laryngoscopy said:
You realize because of monetary policy of the Federal Reserve, the market price signals are distorted and we dont have an accurate of assessment of which corporation is thriving and which are the zombies? Good luck navigating through that minefield.

I could go on about why I'm right about Bitcoin, crypto and the digital revolution we are entering, but I'm not gonna change your mind. Since I started this thread last year, we've witness the early stages of corporate FOMO (Corporate BTC holdings), Crypto banking approved and started in Wyoming, The OCC allow banks to use public blockchains like BTC, for final settlement, Lots of legendary investors get into BTC (Paul Tudor Jones, Stanley Druckenmiller, et al), energy corporations looking at mining BTC using wasted and renewable energy to decrease the CO2 emissions. 12 years ago there were 0 BTC users, today there are at least 100 million. You think the number goes back to 0? Bitcoin is internet based money and we're entering a digital state. It makes so much sense to me.
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Are u seriously arguing that index funds in the stock market is more volatile and more opaque than BTC? 😂😂😂

Your whole angle here is that the US dollar is not pegged and can lose value when the feds print trillions of dollars, while BTC provide a safe haven from runaway inflation. There are plenty of other ways to hedge without putting it in BTC
 
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coffeebythelake said:
Are u seriously arguing that index funds in the stock market is more volatile and more opaque than BTC?

Your whole angle here is that the US dollar is not pegged and can lose value when the feds print trillions of dollars, while BTC provide a safe haven from runaway inflation. There are plenty of other ways to hedge without putting it in BTC
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I like self sovereignty.
 
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chessknt said:
Why not make a nft of you pouring out a bottle of expensive wine or blowing up a classic car then selling it for more than the original item? We live in irrational exuberance where people are buying 'unique' jpeg/gifs that anyone can look at for free in the same way for awe inspiring amounts.
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Because nobody cares what I do. OTOH, if Logan Paul or Lebron or Grimes did it.....
 
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anonperson said:
Any thoughts on the price of ETH after this upgrade that's going to occur?

Redirect Notice

www.google.com
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I'm very bullish on ETH (and BTC), especially due to the network effect of developers and use cases that are being created via ETH. It will never replace BTC and it doesn't want to. BTC is the reserve currency and ETH is the transactional currency of the Ethereum blockchain, which will become the settlement layer of many different applications once the system scales. Right now, we have the boom of NFTs, which is settled primarily in ETH. We have a nascent industry of decentralized finance (DeFi), where permissionless, decentralized, lending and borrowing is occurring and has already over $40B in value transacting in it.

The future of cryptocurrency is multichain. Widespread adoption will also soon happen once people don't even realize what they're doing involves cryptocurrency/blockchain technology in the backend. I'm betting big that what's occurring right now is analogous to the personal computing/internet boom. Right now, we're in the command prompt phase where it's complicated and confusing. Only hobbyists currently know how to use it. The user experience design will catch up and so will you all.
 
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banister said:
I'm very bullish on ETH (and BTC), especially due to the network effect of developers and use cases that are being created via ETH. It will never replace BTC and it doesn't want to. BTC is the reserve currency and ETH is the transactional currency of the Ethereum blockchain, which will become the settlement layer of many different applications once the system scales. Right now, we have the boom of NFTs, which is settled primarily in ETH. We have a nascent industry of decentralized finance (DeFi), where permissionless, decentralized, lending and borrowing is occurring and has already over $40B in value transacting in it.

The future of cryptocurrency is multichain. Widespread adoption will also soon happen once people don't even realize what they're doing involves cryptocurrency/blockchain technology in the backend. I'm betting big that what's occurring right now is analogous to the personal computing/internet boom. Right now, we're in the command prompt phase where it's complicated and confusing. Only hobbyists currently know how to use it. The user experience design will catch up and so will you all.
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Crypto and blockchain is a workaround for emerging encryption technologies. I think something newer and better will take over. Only a matter of time.
 
60k!
Still early ;)
Damn, my brother who barely worked a day in his life is now a millionaire...
 
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Question for all the non-coiners in here. At what price of BTC will you determine that you’re just wrong?
 
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sevo00 said:
Question for all the non-coiners in here. At what price of BTC will you determine that you’re just wrong?
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I am agnostic on bitcoin. Posted this 3+ years ago:

forums.studentdoctor.net

Dow posts worst Opening Day in 8 years

Thank you all for the advice. Aggressively payment schedule is in place . Nice man. I really think you will be happy with that decision. I did the same thing, and as of literally tomorrow I am student loan free. Took 40 months because our 2 year to partner is a tough haul financially, but...
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net


I am beginning to believe that it might be a winner, a new currency, a new asset class even.


You invest to make money or to preserve what you have. Based on my knowledge of financial markets and current level of resources, I am reasonably confident that I can meet my goals. I don't need to venture out into this new unexplored neighborhood. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if bitcoin goes to $1 million per coin or to ZERO.

If I was a gambler I might make a bet on it. More likely to bet on long term calls on T Bonds. I think that during the next crisis US Treasuries will join much of the rest of the world and go negative. But I won't do that either. I never got the rush at the tables, or in the markets betting on high flyers.

getyarn.io

You once told me, don't get emotional about stock, Gordon. Don't.

Wall Street (1987) clip with quote You once told me, don't get emotional about stock, Gordon. Don't. Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote. Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share. Easily move forward or backward to get to the perfect clip.
getyarn.io getyarn.io
 
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sevo00 said:
Question for all the non-coiners in here. At what price of BTC will you determine that you’re just wrong?
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Maybe if it goes for a few years without its value fluctuating 20% or 50% or 1821912%, I'll agree it has a use as a store of value.

But you guys just don't get it.

Your entire argument for BUY BUY BUY Bitcoin is fear of missing out on a big score and/or the imminent collapse of every other asset, whether "fiat" currency or equity or anything else. I've never seen people so earnestly dedicated to helping others who lack their vision and insight, not miss out on a big score, and take it personally when other people don't want in on their big score. It's baffling.

It doesn't even matter if BTC is a "new asset class" like REITs, gold, NASCAR plates, limited edition jpegs, or lunar real estate. I don't "need" any of those things to preserve or grow my wealth. Maybe they have a place (debatable) but nobody is missing out, and destined to eat cat food in their old age, if they don't buy any of those things.

You guys are talking like you're Noah on the boat and the water's rising, and why oh why won't you dumb rubes just get on the ****ing boat and sail with me to Bitcoinland?!?

If it ever becomes useful for something besides speculation and cocaine, it's not like people who don't BUY BUY BUY it now won't be allowed to participate in this new digital economy.

Do you get it now?
 
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pgg said:
If it ever becomes useful for something besides speculation and cocaine, it's not like people who don't BUY BUY BUY it now won't be allowed to participate in this new digital economy.

Do you get it now?
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They won't get it. There's a lot of nonsense out there saying essentially the financial world will collapse save for bitcoin. that everything currently in place can't exist in parallel with bitcoin, and vice versa. it's all or nothing. and that makes sense because if you're a realist and you view bitcoin as a speculative investment (buy low, sell high) rather than an actual currency then the water doesn't hold. the true believers see the world where everyone will be paid in fragments of bitcoin and everyone will take loans against bitcoin. and the few actual owners of real bitcoin will rule the world. the noah's ark analogy is a good one.
 
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BTC used to live exclusively in the realm of nerds. Nowadays pension funds, university endowments, sovereign wealth funds and corporations are increasingly exposing themselves. They’re betting that it will continue to have value. Still speculative but the tide is turning. We are fast approaching a point of no return.
 
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nimbus said:
BTC used to live exclusively in the realm of nerds. Nowadays pension funds, university endowments, sovereign wealth funds and corporations are increasingly exposing themselves. They’re betting that it will continue to have value. Still speculative but the tide is turning. We are fast approaching a point of no return.
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People are investing in BTC. I have money in BTC no different than the big boys, just smaller amounts of course. Same for ETH. It's speculation pure and simple. Realize it's investing though. No one is using it as an actual currency like the believers feel BTC should be used (though they don't spend their money or their BTC as such). No one is using 60k of BTC to buy a Tesla, as intended, because no one knows what BTC will be worth next month much less next year or 10 years from now. The Tesla is a depreciating asset and everyone knows it. The BTC on the other hand, it's an investment not a currency.
 
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nimbus said:
BTC used to live exclusively in the realm of nerds. Nowadays pension funds, university endowments, sovereign wealth funds and corporations are increasingly exposing themselves. They’re betting that it will continue to have value. Still speculative but the tide is turning. We are fast approaching a point of no return.
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You've convinced me. The geniuses that sit at those big tables never made a Billion $ mistake.
 
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sevo00 said:
Cognitive dissonance and pride are a hell of a combo
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Just curious, what percent of your net worth is in crypto? Not asking total $$ amounts. Just percentage. Also, if it keeps going up rapidly at what percentage or point would you lower your percentage allocation?
 
Southpaw said:
People are investing in BTC. I have money in BTC no different than the big boys, just smaller amounts of course. Same for ETH. It's speculation pure and simple. Realize it's investing though. No one is using it as an actual currency like the believers feel BTC should be used (though they don't spend their money or their BTC as such). No one is using 60k of BTC to buy a Tesla, as intended, because no one knows what BTC will be worth next month much less next year or 10 years from now. The Tesla is a depreciating asset and everyone knows it. The BTC on the other hand, it's an investment not a currency.
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100% agree.
 
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dr doze said:
You've convinced me. The geniuses that sit at those big tables never made a Billion $ mistake.
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It’s a matter of getting a critical mass of buyin. We are approaching that point. If enough people agree it has value, then it has value.
 
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nimbus said:
st giving myIt’s a matter of getting a critical mass of buyin. We are approaching that point. If enough people agree it has value, then it has value.
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Or is it a matter of the people that make those decisions not risking their jobs by missing out? If bitcoin does go to the sky they will be at risk for missing a sea change in investing if they pass. If bitcoin goes to zero, they can say, "well we had lots of really smart people make the same call we did."

Again, I have no opinion or position in bitcoin.
 
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dr doze said:
Just curious, what percent of your net worth is in crypto? Not asking total $$ amounts. Just percentage. Also, if it keeps going up rapidly at what percentage or point would you lower your percentage allocation?
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50%. Don’t plan on lowering it. Spread across bitcoin, eth, Loom and Cardano. Look at graphs of loom and cardano just to see how much they’ve gone up in the past week
 
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sevo00 said:
50%. Don’t plan on lowering it. Spread across bitcoin, eth, Loom and Cardano. Look at graphs of loom and cardano just to see how much they’ve gone up in the past week
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Congrats on your success so far. Don't forget to take chips off the table and diversify if/when your holdings represent multiple years of salary.
 
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Bitcoin has been one of the highest appreciating assets in the last couple of years. That can't be argued.

The technology is legitimate. Major companies are buying bitcoin (Tesla, Square, etc). Hard to ignore the coming wave.

We are in a new era now and cryptocurrency is a reality. Whether Bitcoin or Ethereum will be around in several years remains to be seen but they have a lot of potential still.

If you are a reasonably high earner like most physicians, you don't have to touch cryptocurrency at all. Investing in low cost index funds like VTI will make you millions without any major thought or headache.

To break some of the monotony, I am investing into Bitcoin and Ethereum because it's nice to have some skin in the game. My goal is to have 1 to 5% invested in cryptocurrency. I am risk averse in general and am dollar cost averaging into Bitcoin and Ethereum. If it loses value, so be it.

This is a long term hold for me.

Got my cold storage wallet ready to go.
 
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sevo00 said:
Pessimists sound smart...but optimists get rich
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And you STILL don't get it - one doesn't have to be either a pessimist or an optimist or anything in between to get rich.

You an "optimist" on GME too?

sevo00 said:
Cognitive dissonance and pride are a hell of a combo
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LOL, pot, kettle, etc.
 
With Each passing day, Bitcoin is becoming a Global reserve asset, where corporations and individuals store their hard work (energy). It's a global store of value in the form of energy. Currency status may or may not come to pass, but with insurance companies putting Bitcoin on their balance sheets, I am more certain with each passing day, It is the most pristine asset on the planet (better than gold).
 
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pgg said:
You an "optimist" on GME too?
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No I'm not. But LOL at you equating BTC to GME. Really just shows your lack of knowledge regarding crypto. GME's price is due to a short squeeze, which has nothing to do with the reason behind BTC's price.
 
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