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Direct Laryngoscopy said:
With Each passing day, Bitcoin is becoming a Global reserve asset, where corporations and individuals store their hard work (energy). It's a global store of value in the form of energy. Currency status may or may not come to pass, but with insurance companies putting Bitcoin on their balance sheets, I am more certain with each passing day, It is the most pristine asset on the planet (better than gold).
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BtC isn't a battery. Just because energy was spent to create it doesn't mean it is a store of energy. And the fact that it was resource intensive to create in of itself means little. Face it, the only reason why BTC has value is because a bunch of people buy it and think it has value. In other words, it has value because it is popular. That's it.. The original discussions about BTC ad a currency have been readily discussed at nauseum and much has changed. It is traceable. It is not free from the controls of big business and government.
 
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coffeebythelake said:
BtC isn't a battery. Just because energy was spent to create it doesn't mean it is a store of energy. And the fact that it was resource intensive to create in of itself means little. Face it, the only reason why BTC has value is because a bunch of people buy it and think it has value. In other words, it has value because it is popular. That's it.. The original discussions about BTC ad a currency have been readily discussed at nauseum and much has changed. It is traceable. It is not free from the controls of big business and government.
Click to expand...

Same could be said of any piece of art, collectible, precious stones, etc.
 
Direct Laryngoscopy said:
MicroStrategy Adopts Bitcoin as Primary Treasury Reserve Asset | MicroStrategy Incorporated

2017 was retail FOMO
2020 is the start of corporate FOMO
2024? Nation state FOMO

More people are realizing the value proposition of $BTC and now small and mid cap companies are allocating a percentage of their treasury to bitcoin. Wait till an nation whose currency has failed to the USD (Venezuela, Argentina, Iran, Lebanon, etc) start mining and accumulating BTC. I believe we are at the cusp of a monetary reset.

I’ve been beating the drum here for years. Save your hard work today ($$) for your future time tomorrow. Front run the smart money.
Click to expand...

BTC was $11500 when this was posted.
 
nimbus said:
BTC was $11500 when this was posted.
Click to expand...

Some people don’t realize Bitcoin is an inflation (or hyper) detector. The dollar is hyper inflating vs BTC. No surprise the money supply increased 25% just last year and Bitcoin increased like it did in the face of global economy that basically stopped in 2020. Wait till the money supply is further increased this year and the economy is “opened up.”
 
coffeebythelake said:
But is it self sovereignty when the value of btc can plummet when a whale decides to liquidate their position?
Click to expand...

Youre conflating self sovereignty with the value of BTC. I have a share of the 18.6 million circulating. Price appreciation or drop in price has nothing to do with having something that I have full control over.
 
Direct Laryngoscopy said:
Youre conflating self sovereignty with the value of BTC. I have a share of the 18.6 million circulating. Price appreciation or drop in price has nothing to do with having something that I have full control over.
Click to expand...

Can't the same be said for the dollar bill sitting in your pocket? You've already accepted that you don't have control over its value, or are you trying to say that scarcity = sovereignty?
 
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coffeebythelake said:
Can't the same be said for the dollar bill sitting in your pocket? You've already accepted that you don't have control over its value, or are you trying to say that scarcity = sovereignty?
Click to expand...

Stateless money. Gold was the foundation of money for thousands of years because it wasn’t controlled by any 1 government or bank in terms of issuance. Gold had value everywhere because it couldn’t be debased by governments. Now we have a global stateless digital money that can’t be debased by central banks and governments with perpetual monetary expansion. That’s part of the self sovereignty package.
 
Direct Laryngoscopy said:
Stateless money. Gold was the foundation of money for thousands of years because it wasn’t controlled by any 1 government or bank in terms of issuance. Gold had value everywhere because it couldn’t be debased by governments. Now we have a global stateless digital money that can’t be debased by central banks and governments with perpetual monetary expansion. That’s part of the self sovereignty package.
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Gold has both intrinsic and extrinsic value. People desired gold and it has actual use. BTC only has extrinsic value. Hypothetically if I created a blockchain that matches all the characteristics of BTC why wouldn't it be worth the same as BTC? That's your answer
 
coffeebythelake said:
Gold has both intrinsic and extrinsic value. People desired gold and it has actual use. BTC only has extrinsic value. Hypothetically if I created a blockchain that matches all the characteristics of BTC why wouldn't it be worth the same as BTC? That's your answer
Click to expand...

If you can get buy in that will happen. BTC is first. Might be a case that the early bird gets the worm.
 
I looked into BTC/ETH over the weekend and have allotted about 5% into it so far, with plans to work in much more over the next year or so. The technology has the potential to be life-changing, and it does appear that the tides are shifting with increasing institutional buy-in. This is reminiscent of the early internet IMO. I knew it would be "big" but now, 20-30 years into the future, I never could have imagined its rapid evolution, adoption, and integration into everyday life as it exists today. We're also experiencing a similar shift with ICE/electric vehicles. We experienced it with computers, which now fit in the palm of our hands. Remember when that was a wild idea? I do.

I find it funny (but not surprising) that people on here are so quick to dismiss something they admit they don't fully understand, albeit I will readily admit that I don't know all of the inner workings of cryptocurrency/blockchain technology and their implications either. That being said, this thread reminds me of the early conversations about how ultrasound is just a fancy, expensive, unnecessary toy, which is now of course widely used for TTEs, TEEs, PIVs, invasive lines, blocks, POC exams, etc. There are still some people today who refuse (or maybe don't know how) to use the ultrasound. This feels similar to that.

I am cautiously optimistic and am excited to see what the "next" future holds, as I feel like I am living in "the future" I had imagined as a kid. Still waiting on the jet packs though.
 
Anyone with more experience than I have thought about other crypto investments such as Chainlink , Ethereum (“the oil”), or any of the new and alternative protocols like Polkadot, Bancor, or Cardano?

Of course nothing will reach Bitcoin prices but anything on the verge of huge breakouts over the coming year or two?

I have (very) small positions in each as a limited knowledge investor but trying to learn as much as I can.
 
anaesthetic said:
I looked into BTC/ETH over the weekend and have allotted about 5% into it so far, with plans to work in much more over the next year or so. The technology has the potential to be life-changing, and it does appear that the tides are shifting with increasing institutional buy-in. This is reminiscent of the early internet IMO. I knew it would be "big" but now, 20-30 years into the future, I never could have imagined its rapid evolution, adoption, and integration into everyday life as it exists today. We're also experiencing a similar shift with ICE/electric vehicles. We experienced it with computers, which now fit in the palm of our hands. Remember when that was a wild idea? I do.

I find it funny (but not surprising) that people on here are so quick to dismiss something they admit they don't fully understand, albeit I will readily admit that I don't know all of the inner workings of cryptocurrency/blockchain technology and their implications either. That being said, this thread reminds me of the early conversations about how ultrasound is just a fancy, expensive, unnecessary toy, which is now of course widely used for TTEs, TEEs, PIVs, invasive lines, blocks, POC exams, etc. There are still some people today who refuse (or maybe don't know how) to use the ultrasound. This feels similar to that.

I am cautiously optimistic and am excited to see what the "next" future holds, as I feel like I am living in "the future" I had imagined as a kid. Still waiting on the jet packs though.
Click to expand...
boom goes the dynamite
 
anaesthetic said:
I looked into BTC/ETH over the weekend and have allotted about 5% into it so far, with plans to work in much more over the next year or so. The technology has the potential to be life-changing, and it does appear that the tides are shifting with increasing institutional buy-in. This is reminiscent of the early internet IMO. I knew it would be "big" but now, 20-30 years into the future, I never could have imagined its rapid evolution, adoption, and integration into everyday life as it exists today. We're also experiencing a similar shift with ICE/electric vehicles. We experienced it with computers, which now fit in the palm of our hands. Remember when that was a wild idea? I do.

I find it funny (but not surprising) that people on here are so quick to dismiss something they admit they don't fully understand, albeit I will readily admit that I don't know all of the inner workings of cryptocurrency/blockchain technology and their implications either. That being said, this thread reminds me of the early conversations about how ultrasound is just a fancy, expensive, unnecessary toy, which is now of course widely used for TTEs, TEEs, PIVs, invasive lines, blocks, POC exams, etc. There are still some people today who refuse (or maybe don't know how) to use the ultrasound. This feels similar to that.

I am cautiously optimistic and am excited to see what the "next" future holds, as I feel like I am living in "the future" I had imagined as a kid. Still waiting on the jet packs though.
Click to expand...

questioning everything but having an open mind and willing to change previous ideas and thoughts has done well thus far in life. Keep going down the rabbit hole and learn about money, markets, currency and the economy and you’ll question just about everything you’ve learned about finance (and what’s not purposely taught). I keep updating this thread because it’s a running journal of my thoughts to my professional peers, about the seismic change that’s coming this decade. I know throughout the debate I’ve gotten some peeps to question and learn about this nascent technology. Hope more people find it useful.

I predict in 5-10 years, I’ll look like an idiot or genius for creating this thread. Won’t be any in between.


PS. IMO not having BTC exposure might be a risk in itself.
 
anaesthetic said:
The technology has the potential to be life-changing, and it does appear that the tides are shifting with increasing institutional buy-in.
Click to expand...

I am curious in what way your life might change
 
Direct Laryngoscopy said:
Elon Musk says Tesla cars can now be bought with bitcoin

If you’re ready to trade you’re precious BTC for a Tesla, they’ll gladly take it from you.
Click to expand...
Interesting data point. Tesla has made more money on bitcoin this year than selling cars in all of 2020.

markets.businessinsider.com

Tesla's bitcoin investment reportedly made more profit this year than car sales in the whole of 2020

EV-company Tesla's infamous $1.5 billion bitcoin purchase will have made more returns than the company's car sales revenue in 2020, The Times of London reported.
markets.businessinsider.com markets.businessinsider.com
 
dr doze said:
Interesting data point. Tesla has made more money on bitcoin this year than selling cars in all of 2020.

markets.businessinsider.com

Tesla's bitcoin investment reportedly made more profit this year than car sales in the whole of 2020

EV-company Tesla's infamous $1.5 billion bitcoin purchase will have made more returns than the company's car sales revenue in 2020, The Times of London reported.
markets.businessinsider.com markets.businessinsider.com
Click to expand...

Financialization of markets (and the broader economy) has gone awry and i think we see massive changes as a result of cheap debt flying left and right.
 
dr doze said:
Interesting data point. Tesla has made more money on bitcoin this year than selling cars in all of 2020.

markets.businessinsider.com

Tesla's bitcoin investment reportedly made more profit this year than car sales in the whole of 2020

EV-company Tesla's infamous $1.5 billion bitcoin purchase will have made more returns than the company's car sales revenue in 2020, The Times of London reported.
markets.businessinsider.com markets.businessinsider.com
Click to expand...
Unless they sold the bitcoin they didn't make anything yet.

Also it is going to be fascinating to see how well this bitcoin tesla thing pans out. Do they pay sales tax in bitcoin too? Is every state going to be ok with that?
 
chessknt said:
Unless they sold the bitcoin they didn't make anything yet.

Also it is going to be fascinating to see how well this bitcoin tesla thing pans out. Do they pay sales tax in bitcoin too? Is every state going to be ok with that?
Click to expand...

I don't think a state will care in what fashion a company collects the sales tax money, but the company will have to pay it back to the state in dollars.
 
Mman said:
I don't think a state will care in what fashion a company collects the sales tax money, but the company will have to pay it back to the state in dollars.
Click to expand...

This is where it’s interesting. If I were to pay for a Tesla using BTC that would incur a taxable event, but Elon has stated he will not sell the proceeds of said sales in BTC back to USD. He will keep in BTC and add to their balance sheet. Not sure what kind of taxable event (if any) Tesla will incur.
 
Direct Laryngoscopy said:
This is where it’s interesting. If I were to pay for a Tesla using BTC that would incur a taxable event, but Elon has stated he will not sell the proceeds of said sales in BTC back to USD. He will keep in BTC and add to their balance sheet. Not sure what kind of taxable event (if any) Tesla will incur.
Click to expand...
It will incur a taxable event. Tesla will have to come up with the $ to pay the tax man. It is a form of bartering. Something that the IRS is quite clear on.

------

"Because "barter dollars," the fair market value of the goods and services you received, are taxed as if they are cash, you can owe income tax, self-employment tax, employment tax, or even excise tax on your bartering income -- even if you don't actually receive a penny in cash."
 
Direct Laryngoscopy said:
This is where it’s interesting. If I were to pay for a Tesla using BTC that would incur a taxable event, but Elon has stated he will not sell the proceeds of said sales in BTC back to USD. He will keep in BTC and add to their balance sheet. Not sure what kind of taxable event (if any) Tesla will incur.
Click to expand...

The sales tax is due as a percentage of the sales price in dollars. Even if you allow someone to pay in BTC at whatever the going exchange rate is, the sales tax due is calculated in dollars and collected by Tesla on behalf of the state government and due to be paid in dollars to that government.

Tesla can keep the bitcoin all they want, but they will need to find the dollars somewhere to pay up whether from a bank account, a loan, or via issuing new shares.
 
Watched The Last Blockbuster on Netflix and cant help but see some parallels.

Wouldnt the market be more efficient and economical on the blockchain? Why not cut out the Bernie Madoff middlemen? Why do I have to wait 5 days for my money to get to my brokerage from a bank? Why do I have to worry about margins, interest and collateral when I dont need to?

Same way you dont have to go to the store to rent a movie you can just pick it from home is the same way you can avoid clearinghouses and using a bank. The naysayers remind me of the guys buying up blu rays in the dying days of physical movies.
 
blockstar said:
Watched The Last Blockbuster on Netflix and cant help but see some parallels.

Wouldnt the market be more efficient and economical on the blockchain? Why not cut out the Bernie Madoff middlemen? Why do I have to wait 5 days for my money to get to my brokerage from a bank? Why do I have to worry about margins, interest and collateral when I dont need to?

Same way you dont have to go to the store to rent a movie you can just pick it from home is the same way you can avoid clearinghouses and using a bank. The naysayers remind me of the guys buying up blu rays in the dying days of physical movies.
Click to expand...
Right, because movies were largely controlled by a few manipulative whales, the movie rental market was a shady gray market of mostly illegal transactions, and --

Wait, that does sort of sound like the MPAA mafia back in the pre-streaming days. 🙂


You guys still haven't given me a good reason why I won't be allowed to use bitcoin in 10 or 15 years if it sticks around and I don't buy in NOW, or why it's superior (in inflation-protection terms) to gold, real estate, or even equities.

What am I missing out on, besides a spin at the roulette wheel?
 
pgg said:
Right, because movies were largely controlled by a few manipulative whales, the movie rental market was a shady gray market of mostly illegal transactions, and --

Wait, that does sort of sound like the MPAA mafia back in the pre-streaming days. 🙂


You guys still haven't given me a good reason why I won't be allowed to use bitcoin in 10 or 15 years if it sticks around and I don't buy in NOW, or why it's superior (in inflation-protection terms) to gold, real estate, or even equities.

What am I missing out on, besides a spin at the roulette wheel?
Click to expand...
We wont be able to convince you personally until you see a physical Bitcoin/Gemini/Nexo bank in the mall like a Tesla shop or on the corner like a Chase Bank. There is almost limitless potential to at least diversify the banking industry and it has already begun. Ive paid off my student loans, bought a nice house, nice car and become a self made millionaire before Im 40. My balance sheet is damn near clean outside the house because I doubled, tripled, quadrupled down on the crypto market. I will be looking outside that market now to increase my wealth and Im sure you have some good ideas that are simply potential right now. And Id love to hear about them!
People invest in what they understand. Ive read a ton of books on crypto. Now reading Intelligent Investor, Rich Dad Poor Dad (seems more like Jordan Belfort with good nuggets of info), etc. Im thinking about going heavily into BFLY. What does pgg understand, enjoy and invest in?
 
blockstar said:
We wont be able to convince you personally until you see a physical Bitcoin/Gemini/Nexo bank in the mall like a Tesla shop or on the corner like a Chase Bank. There is almost limitless potential to at least diversify the banking industry and it has already begun. Ive paid off my student loans, bought a nice house, nice car and become a self made millionaire before Im 40. My balance sheet is damn near clean outside the house because I doubled, tripled, quadrupled down on the crypto market. I will be looking outside that market now to increase my wealth and Im sure you have some good ideas that are simply potential right now. And Id love to hear about them!
People invest in what they understand. Ive read a ton of books on crypto. Now reading Intelligent Investor, Rich Dad Poor Dad (seems more like Jordan Belfort with good nuggets of info), etc. Im thinking about going heavily into BFLY. What does pgg understand, enjoy and invest in?
Click to expand...
Don't take this the wrong way, but you're really not a self made millionaire. You didn't make much of anything, ie you succeeded at transferring wealth from one entity to your own, and sincerely good for you, but you didn't in return add any production or wealth back to the economy. Not a whole lot of difference between that and a big inheritance. Time will tell whether it was good insight on your part or pure luck, as many or most typically deny the luck aspect of good investments and tend to take more credit than they deserve. Regardless, congratulations on being in a good spot past all of the school debt and more at a very young age. That's a great place to be.
 
blockstar said:
We wont be able to convince you personally until you see a physical Bitcoin/Gemini/Nexo bank in the mall like a Tesla shop or on the corner like a Chase Bank. There is almost limitless potential to at least diversify the banking industry and it has already begun. Ive paid off my student loans, bought a nice house, nice car and become a self made millionaire before Im 40. My balance sheet is damn near clean outside the house because I doubled, tripled, quadrupled down on the crypto market. I will be looking outside that market now to increase my wealth and Im sure you have some good ideas that are simply potential right now. And Id love to hear about them!
People invest in what they understand. Ive read a ton of books on crypto. Now reading Intelligent Investor, Rich Dad Poor Dad (seems more like Jordan Belfort with good nuggets of info), etc. Im thinking about going heavily into BFLY. What does pgg understand, enjoy and invest in?
Click to expand...
Bitcoin is a zero-sum game. For every dollar a person like you has extracted from it, another person has lost a dollar. I'm happy you're ahead at the roulette wheel, but "self made millionaire" is an interesting phrase to choose. A key problem in these threads is that none of the people who bought high and sold low to fund your student loans, nice house, and nice car are posting.

What do I like, to grow assets and hedge inflation? Equities (foreign and domestic), real estate (commercial and residential, foreign and domestic), gold. Earn lots of money, spend less than I earn. Be appropriately insured. Don't get divorced.

BFLY? One of the most curious side effects of the last 10+ years of the nearly-uninterrupted freakish bull market is that there haven't been any losers, and people have interpreted their investment success as skill and insight. It's fascinating that on a board full of trained scientists, people believe they can pick stocks and have positive odds of winning in the long run.

Historically, especially risky and poor stock picking comes from people investing in companies they work for or fields they work in - i.e. people who think they have special insight they don't, who then pay an extra cost in lost diversification by tilting their investments to the industry their paychecks come from. But good luck with BFLY. It'll probably do well. Probably. And since you're gambling with house money, the dopamine rush will be all the sweeter if you win.
 
I started two llcs before finishing residency. Passive income of 6-20k per month before COVID...as a resident. Dont want to brag just making a point since you guys seem to have an issue with the self made portion of my statement. Invested in ETFs/stocks and crypto almost equally. Guess which did better. I am fully aware the huge gains might be dumb luck which is why Im asking how anti crytpo fuddy duddies diversify without repeating the letters E T and F. Ive read Bogleheads twice dont really need guidance into the value of low cost investing. How do you even get into international real estate...or even local real estate? Because my first thought would be tokenized assets like Polymath where you can get a piece of a commercial building. I am asking because I dont know. Only thing Ive read about is the Rich Dad Poor Dad guy buying up foreclosures and flipping them to buy bigger properties that dont get taxed.

Calling crypto a zero sum game is absurd. There is more utility in allowing a man or woman from west africa to bank their money and not get exploited by the whims of a corrupt government than exploiting their land for diamonds and gold. Crypto isnt just bitcoin. Look at what Stellar is and how it works. Its not a roulette wheel.
 
anaesthetic said:
I looked into BTC/ETH over the weekend and have allotted about 5% into it so far, with plans to work in much more over the next year or so. The technology has the potential to be life-changing, and it does appear that the tides are shifting with increasing institutional buy-in. This is reminiscent of the early internet IMO. I knew it would be "big" but now, 20-30 years into the future, I never could have imagined its rapid evolution, adoption, and integration into everyday life as it exists today. We're also experiencing a similar shift with ICE/electric vehicles. We experienced it with computers, which now fit in the palm of our hands. Remember when that was a wild idea? I do.

I find it funny (but not surprising) that people on here are so quick to dismiss something they admit they don't fully understand, albeit I will readily admit that I don't know all of the inner workings of cryptocurrency/blockchain technology and their implications either. That being said, this thread reminds me of the early conversations about how ultrasound is just a fancy, expensive, unnecessary toy, which is now of course widely used for TTEs, TEEs, PIVs, invasive lines, blocks, POC exams, etc. There are still some people today who refuse (or maybe don't know how) to use the ultrasound. This feels similar to that.

I am cautiously optimistic and am excited to see what the "next" future holds, as I feel like I am living in "the future" I had imagined as a kid. Still waiting on the jet packs though.
Click to expand...

The thing is that blockchain and cryptocurrency could become the next huge think like the internet. And that still doesn't mean it would be a big winner. Being big or being first doesn't mean success. You're assuming you are doing the equivalent of betting on Google or Amazon or Apple, companies that rode the wave of the internet to become larger and more successful then sought possible. But a lot of people lost a lot of money on stocks like AOL, Netscape, Yahoo, Pets.com and so on x 1000.

When low cost, liquid, well diversified cryptocurrency instruments become available, I think it would be reasonable to allocate a small portion of your portfolio to them. Like a VTI of crypto if you will. But right now picking a crypto currency is essentially betting on a winner, like picking a stock.
 
pgg said:
Bitcoin is a zero-sum game. For every dollar a person like you has extracted from it, another person has lost a dollar. I'm happy you're ahead at the roulette wheel, but "self made millionaire" is an interesting phrase to choose. A key problem in these threads is that none of the people who bought high and sold low to fund your student loans, nice house, and nice car are posting.

What do I like, to grow assets and hedge inflation? Equities (foreign and domestic), real estate (commercial and residential, foreign and domestic), gold. Earn lots of money, spend less than I earn. Be appropriately insured. Don't get divorced.

BFLY? One of the most curious side effects of the last 10+ years of the nearly-uninterrupted freakish bull market is that there haven't been any losers, and people have interpreted their investment success as skill and insight. It's fascinating that on a board full of trained scientists, people believe they can pick stocks and have positive odds of winning in the long run.

Historically, especially risky and poor stock picking comes from people investing in companies they work for or fields they work in - i.e. people who think they have special insight they don't, who then pay an extra cost in lost diversification by tilting their investments to the industry their paychecks come from. But good luck with BFLY. It'll probably do well. Probably. And since you're gambling with house money, the dopamine rush will be all the sweeter if you win.
Click to expand...
How is buying gold or equities to hedge against inflation, hoping to sell them later at a higher price, any different from the bitcoin narrative you are crapping on? (Exception for dividend yielding equities or funds-- PS, buy tokenized gold and you CAN generate yield, and redeem your tokens for physical gold at any time).
 
Intubate said:
How is buying gold or equities to hedge against inflation, hoping to sell them later at a higher price, any different from the bitcoin narrative you are crapping on? (Exception for dividend yielding equities or funds-- PS, buy tokenized gold and you CAN generate yield, and redeem your tokens for physical gold at any time).
Click to expand...

I don't buy gold.
Equities gain value when the companies they represent make money
 
coffeebythelake said:
I don't buy gold.
Equities gain value when the companies they represent make money
Click to expand...
Are you saying that equities are valued based on the companies income? That is laughable. Just look at the market. And regardless, youre still just hoping to sell the stock for more than you bought it, unless you only buy dividend stocks. Does that make the whole stock market a ponzi game? Absolutely! And thats ok.
 
Intubate said:
Are you saying that equities are valued based on the companies income? That is laughable. Just look at the market. And regardless, youre still just hoping to sell the stock for more than you bought it, unless you only buy dividend stocks. Does that make the whole stock market a ponzi game? Absolutely! And thats ok.
Click to expand...
It's all a House of Cards which can crumble at any time.
 
Intubate said:
Are you saying that equities are valued based on the companies income? That is laughable. Just look at the market. And regardless, youre still just hoping to sell the stock for more than you bought it, unless you only buy dividend stocks. Does that make the whole stock market a ponzi game? Absolutely! And thats ok.
Click to expand...

There are fundamentals and there are technical factors, and the belief that future gains and growth play jnto the valuation of a company. But it is still largely based on earnings or belief in future earnings. Lot more can be said of such equities than cryptocurrenciea
 
coffeebythelake said:
There are fundamentals and there are technical factors, and the belief that future gains and growth play jnto the valuation of a company. But it is still largely based on earnings or belief in future earnings. Lot more can be said of such equities than cryptocurrenciea
Click to expand...
OK, but don't lump all cryptocurrencies together. There are many use cases besides store of value, and peer to peer money. I don't want to get into a shill-fest here, but Ethereum for example is a multi hundred billion dollar network supporting multiple industries, mostly financial, and the base layer asset, ether, has multiple value accrual mechanisms within the system. This is not a beanie baby. If you don't want to take part, then don't. You don't seem like you get it though, and everyone trying to explain this complicated thing while you cover your ears is tiresome.
 
coffeebythelake said:
There are fundamentals and there are technical factors, and the belief that future gains and growth play jnto the valuation of a company. But it is still largely based on earnings or belief in future earnings. Lot more can be said of such equities than cryptocurrenciea
Click to expand...

The problem is that, like crypto, there’s a huge amount of manipulation by insiders in the equity markets too. With current valuations it’s all gambling.


apple.news

A little-known hedge fund caused widespread chaos on Wall Street — CNN Business

The names of the key players are different, but the lessons similar. The spectacular implosion of hedge fund Archegos Capital Management, much like the GameStop saga earlier this year, serves as a reminder of the dangers posed by extreme leverage, secret derivatives and rock-bottom interest rates.
apple.news apple.news
 
Intubate said:
Are you saying that equities are valued based on the companies income? That is laughable. Just look at the market. And regardless, youre still just hoping to sell the stock for more than you bought it, unless you only buy dividend stocks. Does that make the whole stock market a ponzi game? Absolutely! And thats ok.
Click to expand...

Historically (pre Greenspan) the market has always come back down to a level that is justified by the amount of dividends and earnings it produced.
If you believe that the rules of the game have changed (I don't) modern monetary theory will work its magic and change the rules.


Gold does have a few thousand years of people valuing it, sometimes spectacularly.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Direct Laryngoscopy said:
Financialization of markets (and the broader economy) has gone awry and i think we see massive changes as a result of cheap debt flying left and right.
Click to expand...

All true. I have been thinking and reading about Bitcoin and crypto a little bit over the past few weeks. My gut is that it is the right innovation at the wrong time. Bitcoin, like the US dollar, gold, financial markets (especially the US) are based on trust.

The above examples have decades to centuries of imbued trust.
I just find it hard to believe that in a world where trust in all of our most established and cherished institutions is declining, that this one will be embraced. In times of increasing uncertainty and fragility people flock to what has a long track record- Treasurys, Gold, the US dollar, and to a lesser extent US equities because of the rule of law (cough), etc.

Still sitting on the sidelines.

I have enjoyed your posts on the subject so far.
 
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