BE CAREFUL of MUA

[FutureMDiA]

Thanks for the help, i really appreciate that.

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[Skip Intro]

I'm an MS4 at MUA. I'm entering the 2009 match. If I don't match, I'm not going to blame anyone but myself. By letting you in, Caribbean schools give you another chance to becoming an M.D. You have work hard to make it out successfully.

superoxide posted the above post on this thread in 2008. I'm grateful that this poster was honest about taking responsibility for their education.

But, flash forward to this post almost two years later...

I really don't care about the pay. It's better than being unemployed! I just want to finish what I started. Get into a residency and become a practicing physician. I don't care where.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/residency-in-denamrk-or-sweden.680785/page-2#post-9148955

Trouble passing the USMLE and not getting a U.S. residency. So, started looking abroad? Wonder how it turned out.

Again, caveat emptor.

-Skip

 

[FutureMDiA]

Damn, Skip. Thats some detective work you did here, haha.

 

[django7]

pwned

 

[Psych2014]

Thanks for the help, i really appreciate that.

HEY THIS MAY BE A DEAD THREAD... But as a graduate of MUA (2010) and having finished residency, and currently staff psychiatrist, obviously it is possible. I think the chances have always been lower at the lower tier schools for the following reasons, which I don't see mentioned above.
1. Newer carib schools accept students who haven't achieved high enough to get into the top 4. Therefore the collective likelihood of success of that pool of studnets is going to be significantly lower at each grade of achievement.... (of course they accept students who they can probably see will never make it, it is about money to some degree, they have to survive as a business, if you want to give them your money, that's not their fault).
2. OF those who graduate and finish steps 1 and 2 minimum, and apply to match, many are irregular (taken extra time, failed classes, had medical issues, are older, foreign, etc.) and therefore chances of landing residency go down.
3. Less name recognition and track record of MUA compared to top 4, I believe has much smaller effect than the above 2.

You can add various concepts to the above, but basic reality is that the failure is less because of the school, and much more because the students with higher chances of success have already been filtered out by the top 4. It worked for me, because I didn't have the stats to get into Ross, and nowhere near SGU. I am much older, and was persistent, made smart choices, worked really hard, and here I am. I'd guess roughly 30-40% of students I knew from day 1 at MUA have achieved residency.

 

[FutureMDiA]

If you get good step 1 and step 2 scores, will you most likely get a residency from MUA? i heard this school is growing very fast and it even now has Title IV funding for US students. They even posted the residency match list for 2015, the list looks pretty impressive to me.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

If you get good step 1 and step 2 scores, will you most likely get a residency from MUA? i heard this school is growing very fast and it even now has Title IV funding for US students. They even posted the residency match list for 2015, the list looks pretty impressive to me.

No.

 

[Doctor Adam]

People should consider everything carefully before attending Caribbean schools. The numbers speak for themselves: 3 incoming classes per year of 100+ students, and only a handful emerging with a residency placement. A success rate of 10-15% is an enormous financial risk. Those numbers have everything to do with the fact that the teaching methods in Caribbean schools are genuinely sub-par.

If you happen to know of a few students for whom the Caribbean path has worked, that doesn't mean it will be as easy for you.

You'd be better off getting a job elsewhere, even a minimum wage job. At least, in that way, you'd have some experiences that count toward something. If you get a residency placement, you'll be fine. But if you're like the typical student who heads down to the Caribbean, ... it won't end well.


You wrote:

"I am a graduate of the school and I can speak first had. PROCEED WITH CAUTION BEFORE ATTENDING THIS SCHOOL."

 

[Doctor Adam]

If you get good step 1 and step 2 scores, will you most likely get a residency from MUA? i heard this school is growing very fast and it even now has Title IV funding for US students. They even posted the residency match list for 2015, the list looks pretty impressive to me.

Avoid MUA if you can.

 

[Psych2014]

Well, OP is clearly one person who had a bad experience. MUA grad here, like many in practice. For example, my residency program; 3 of 5 of the newest class of PGY-1's are FROM MUA. So that kills the "only a handful make it each year" concept. Odd, a handful made it into one program in one specialty. I hope you find your next path OP, truly wish you well.

 

[UBC2014]

There will always be less-desirable programs looking to fill spots with IMGs. IF you don't mind the cost, and the chance of going unmatched, it's not a terrible last resort to becoming a physician.

 

[Psych2014]

Spoken like an amateur or an immature. My program has about an even number IMG and US grads. It was the US grads first choice in the 2 classes below me. This program is small and not ranked high, but it is not less desirable. There were 140 interviews in my year and it was obviously competitive. Several of the top 10 rated programs in psych have IMG or FMG's. So foreign grads match all over. And you know, when you've finally arrived at a full paying job as an attending, nobody cares where you came from but yourself. Like always it's whether you know your stuff and hopefully aren't an ass, but an asset.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Well, OP is clearly one person who had a bad experience. MUA grad here, like many in practice. For example, my residency program; 3 of 5 of the newest class of PGY-1's are FROM MUA. So that kills the "only a handful make it each year" concept. Odd, a handful made it into one program in one specialty. I hope you find your next path OP, truly wish you well.

To be perfectly honest I'm unclear whether you're advocating for MUA or not based on your last few posts, but this one sounds like you are so I'll go with that. Your program's anecdotal stats don't mean squat if you can't back it up with evidence. The fact remains that MUA is NOT a school that maximizes your chances of success in ANY program as a practicing physician, and that is what incoming potential students need to concern themselves with. I'm really happy that MUA worked out for you personally, but statistically speaking most students aren't so lucky. It seems inordinately unfair to potential future students to paint the school in such a rosy light when they'd have a much better chance at physician-hood at other Caribbean schools like SGU or Ross.

 

[Psych2014]

Only an advocate of accurate information. I have no investment but sharing experience. The OP was a student who failed in some way and painted the school all bad. As you mature you realize nothing is all good or all bad. MUA has ups and downs. Their stats are probably 10% lower than Saba or AUA, SGU, etc. on percent grads who reach residency or match. They accept a wider range of student ability, and yet much wider than U. S. schools obviously. Some of the students are far lower achieving academically, so fewer make it through all the step exams. A percentage of incoming students should not be there, but it is the student's choice. It has nothing to do with MUA providing inferior teaching or preparation or resources. Anybody who is honest knows that the bulk of medical school, and residency is learning on your own, or with other learners. The medical school mainly tells you what to learn, ie., you only get the same lecture once. MUA is very good at focusing a student on the most important information. Their step one pass rate is high.

I can't say anything here that hasn't already been said. My motivation is that I learned about MUA from Value MD and just wanting to pass it on. ValueMD has its flaws also. And nobody at MUA knows or thinks about me anymore.

How about you? Why so adamantly negative?

 

[bedevilled ben]

How about you? Why so adamantly negative?

I said it pretty plainly in my previous post. MUA does not maximize a prospective student's chance at securing a residency. For students heading to the Caribbean that want to practice in the US or Canada, that should be their primary concern. Going to the Caribbean is already a risky proposition, what sense does it make to compound that risk?

 

[muqalia]

I agree with @bedevilled ben. You are already at a big disadvantage going to the Caribbean with respect to residencies. Why make it even harder?

 

[Psych2014]

I agree with @bedevilled ben. You are already at a big disadvantage going to the Caribbean with respect to residencies. Why make it even harder?

That's a glittering generality; either intentional or innocent. It attempts to cover over the evidence that many students go to MUA and succeed. Why would you choose MUA when its already harder to match as an IMG? Well, how much harder is it compared to coming from India, or China or wherever? It's really about comparing MUA residency match rate to other, maybe more legitimate Caribbean Med schools. Does anyone actually have hard data? SGU is probably better, but not everyone can get acceptance to SGU or Ross, etc.. That's why they choose MUA. That doesn't make it a bad choice, because it may be the best choice for some. Like many things, it can work if you work it, hard.

 

[IslandStyle808]

That's a glittering generality; either intentional or innocent. It attempts to cover over the evidence that many students go to MUA and succeed. Why would you choose MUA when its already harder to match as an IMG? Well, how much harder is it compared to coming from India, or China or wherever? It's really about comparing MUA residency match rate to other, maybe more legitimate Caribbean Med schools. Does anyone actually have hard data? SGU is probably better, but not everyone can get acceptance to SGU or Ross, etc.. That's why they choose MUA. That doesn't make it a bad choice, because it may be the best choice for some. Like many things, it can work if you work it, hard.

The hard part about sizing up MUA from our end is that there is no hard evidence to how they match. The only thing close to evidence we have is the NRMPs charting outcomes for IMGs report of 2014.

http://www.ecfmg.org/resources/NRMP...atch-International-Medical-Graduates-2014.pdf

This shows only preferred residency matching (this is not the true match rate nor placement rate), and the schools that come out on top from the Caribbean are SGU, AUC, Ross, and to some degree Saba (highest to low matching). Of course we don't know the true match rate, but one can assume those who don't get their preferred residency matching are probably having more difficulties matching in general. So this would mean any other caribbean school beyond those 4 is doing worse in comparison.

One could chalk it up to the caliber of student not measuring up and hence the reason for them not matching well. However, a few DO schools have MCAT averages similar to the caribbean. Yet they have less attrition and more matching.

 

[aformerstudent]

Old thread, I apologize, but I want to get the last word in here in case some student is confused about MUA and is still confused after reading this thread.

Do not go to this school. I have a post on this site, my first post I think, that breaks down what you can expect from this school as of recently and no, it is not just about how hard you are willing to work that will determine your success.

The "Psych2014" user I can confirm is actually a real person who succeeded at MUA because well lets just say I was an MUA student and we know the successful alumni. Having said that, this person's experience is just their experience and that doesn't mean you will have the same success by doing the same things that they did. Personally, I agree with bedevilled ben that this person's post's sounds more like they are indeed advocating for MUA because I know a lot more people who would tell you to steer clear of MUA-Nevis and go to another school or don't go to medical school at all based on their experiences.

At first, I disagreed with a lot of the advice from a few of the sane members here because I was still an MUA student and I obviously had an axe to grind but taking a step back and looking at this from a different prospective, I can tell you that MUA has a lot of faults. One of them being that MUA has pretty much zero admissions standards other than just completing the pre-req's and that too w/o any physics and biochem. They don't even care what your MCAT score is; like literally don't care even if you are in the single digit percentile they will accept your score. The problem with this is the program is not structured to accommodate students who are coming in with lesser stats and I will be honest that most students are coming in with relatively low stats compared to even other Caribbean schools. The program is still as hard as any medical school and I feel MUA makes it even harder than other schools with their own stringent administrative policies including mandatory attendance. And these policies are ever changing; they even change during the term you are in!

What is that machine called that lays the roads down? A steam roller? Picture one of those and pretend you are the asphalt because that's what this school is going to do to you not just in basic sciences but apparently in clinicals as well.

Getting in is super easy and the school is not as expensive as other schools and currently has Title IV loans which makes it look incredibly attractive on paper but once you get in you are going to go through hell. Again, read my first post and some other posts about MUA that you can find on this forum.

My advice is a little different than some of the anti-caribbean users on this forum. As a former Caribbean student, I know the mindset we have when applying to these schools so believe me I understand where you're coming from. There are highly motivated students out there and those students can make it through a Caribbean program granted that program is legitimate. For those students, my advice is to apply to SGU only and with a minimum 500 MCAT. If you are getting rejected from SGU, don't take that personally but instead take that as a warning sign meaning that you are not doctor material or not doctor material just yet and do something about it. I don't believe in GPA as a predictor and I don't even believe the MCAT score predicts STEP performance but I do believe that the MCAT score will predict how you can handle the basic sciences. If you are below 500, I believe you will struggle at some point during basic sciences and I believe this because the MCAT tests how you think and later in the basic sciences, at least at MUA, you will be doing a lot of integration which will test you in the same way the MCAT does. You would be surprised how many people can ace anatomy/histo/biochem and literally fail or struggle through path/physio/pharm. Med school is not undergrad so it would actually be unethical for a medical school to accept you with stats that have been shown to not predict success.

So in closing, MUA has pretty much no admissions requirements but don't think that just because you get in that you are going to become a doctor. And certainly don't think that just because one person succeeded that somehow you are going to as well. It's Waaaaaay more complicated than that. If MUA had high admissions standards, they know they would have no applicants because why would anybody go to MUA when they could go to SGU or maybe Ross and have a better chance at becoming a doctor from a more established school.

Now don't get me wrong, there are people that apparently do graduate from MUA. I'm not saying this is a total dead-end of a school because they do provide a match list every year. The match list however is rather vague and I believe is just for show. How many of those students match on their first attempt? It doesn't tell you that information. What I am saying is that there is a right way and a wrong way to become a doctor and, from my experience at least in basic sciences, MUA is not the right way. My advice to you with this post is to make sure you are doing it the right way.

I can't comment on anything related to clinicals and beyond but that's irrelevant for this post because if you can't get out of basic sciences, you will never see clinical medicine. Also, if you are struggling in basic sciences; meaning you can't at least maintain a B average, then you should also think about whether or not this is the right path to stay on because it only gets harder apparently. Another piece of advice I want to give is this, in medicine you are dealing with a human life. As much as you want to become a doctor for whatever reason, if your stats are screaming that you are unqualified, do not go into this profession. It will not end well for you and worse you could be putting a future patient at risk. We all want to become doctors for various reasons and some of those reasons are the wrong reasons.

In your spare time also try and Google practicing MUA physicians. The school's been around since 1998 and should have graduated 15 classes by now. Where are all those docs? I found like five.

 

[Skip Intro]

... I do believe that the MCAT score will predict how you can handle the basic sciences. If you are below 500, I believe you will struggle at some point during basic sciences and I believe this because the MCAT tests how you think and later in the basic sciences, at least at MUA, you will be doing a lot of integration which will test you in the same way the MCAT does.

Are you actually coming around? Teachable? Maybe. Still not quite getting it, though.

Chances of St georges carribean medical?

-Skip

 

[aformerstudent]

Are you actually coming around? Teachable? Maybe. Still not quite getting it, though.

Chances of St georges carribean medical?

-Skip

You say that like you think you're the expert on the Caribbean path.

I've got news for you though. Just because you went there, you graduated, and you practice does not mean that you alone know a thing or two about these schools.

My understanding is that you went there many years ago when things were easier. I was recently there in this particular climate. So who are you to be telling me I'm not getting "it?"

I mean think about it. I see things too you know.

 

[Skip Intro]

You say that like you think you're the expert on the Caribbean path.

Read my disclaimer.

I've got news for you though. Just because you went there, you graduated, and you practice does not mean that you alone know a thing or two about these schools.

Ah.... here's the aformerstudent I knew coming back.

My understanding is that you went there many years ago when things were easier.

Okay, so now you're supposing things were "easier" when I went "there". (hahahahahaha-HAH!!!!! )

I was recently there in this particular climate. So who are you to be telling me I'm not getting "it?"

No, I stated (to be more clear) that it appeared that you are maybe teachable than I had originally thought. Your thick and stalwart position, so lengthily extrapolated and defended (in the previous thread I linked), was that the MCAT was irrelevant.

Chances of St georges carribean medical?

Then, you stated the above on this thread, which was a "softer" and slightly more accurate position on the matter.

I thought, perhaps, you were coming to your senses. Now I'm thinking that was wrong.

I mean think about it. I see things too you know.

I have thought about it. You have only demonstrated you have little clue what you're talking about. Repeatedly.

-Skip

 

[aformerstudent]

Besides the complete lack of professionalism from your posts, you stick to giving your advice, and I'll stick to giving mine.

 

[aformerstudent]

hi