Below 3.0 gpa Support Group/Thread

[icedearth33]

First and foremost, congratulations on your sobriety, my friend. Best to you.

You have something going for you that not all low-GPA comebacks do, and that's time. That there's ten years between you-then and you-now, with massive improvement in between, will greatly help you. Adcoms do understand that paths change, believe me, and what they will be looking for is that the you-now can handle the rigor of medical school without crumbling. I had a similar situation in which I basically failed half of junior and most of senior year back in 2001-2002. After an associate's degree and ten years in the workforce (I was also in Americorps VISTA for a year in '05 and after that was a registered nurse) when I made the decision to look into medical school, I remember the night that I calculated my GPA as well (I was literally sitting there with shaking hands, so I know exactly what you mean). Seeing what looked hopeless, I marched back to university in 2012 and did another bachelor's degree with a 3.9, same as you. My overall cumulative ended up a 3.2, sGPA of 3.85. but when I finally got to medical school interviews few people cared at all. At my very first interview I even started to explain my failures all that time ago and my interviewer stopped me and said, "That was fourteen years ago. We don't even need to talk about that."

So point being, with such a significant amount of time since a poor performance and such a stellar, sustained recent effort, a few doors here and there will close but there are places willing to give a reinventor a chance (both DO and MD). Some schools like Wayne State even have policies to only look at the past 25 or so hours of sGPA, precisely because people do change. My suggestion would be to look at those kind of schools that place significant emphasis on factors other than sheer numbers -- Wayne State as mentioned, Tulane, Miami, Boston, almost all DO schools to name a few (I can PM you a more complete list if you like). When you do write your application, your handling of your story and how you present yourself as a matured adult is going to be absolutely critical.

Generally, GPA "cutoff" is 3.0, which is considered the minimum to escape auto-screening. Assuming your calculations are correct you've at very least broken that, and it sounds like you have this semester's classes left to go which is good. It's also good (I mean not good but you know what I mean) that your failed courses from the Stone Age weren't science courses, so you have an sGPA that's alive on its own and fairly competitive -- last year's MD matriculants had a mean sGPA of 3.64. The C's in micro and algebra and that D in History aren't helping but they shouldn't kill you (nothing you can do about them, of course). There's no way to absolutely guarantee that your cycle would be successful, given that 60% of applicants including even perfect golden children do not get in each year, but from what I see I do believe you'd have a shot if you apply broadly and wisely.

You say you're taking the MCAT this May, but then say you're looking at joining AC VISTA for 2017-2018. Are you trying to apply to medical school this year or applying in '18? VISTA is rewarding but can be very hard on the finances, I can tell you as an alum. I'm sure you already know that, but you're not going to be saving any money during a VISTA year, and just advance warning an application cycle can be very expensive. Do you have any other significant volunteering (which you do need to have for an application)? If so, I would throw out there that it might be of benefit to consider continuing to take courses instead, particularly upper-level biology courses like immunology. You want to keep on putting as much academic distance between old you and new you, and with those more recent Cs and that D it might be to your benefit to keep mitigating those on paper as much as possible. Continuing to take classes will continue to buff your sGPA and give you something to update schools with when you receive new grades in the winter. As a graduated student they'll count as 'post-bacc' grades, which is fine. While taking those courses I would continue working, continue your research, and focus on establishing some sustained volunteering with a local organization (preferably volunteering that puts you face to face with other humans)

Also, have you shadowed doctors? This is another thing they'll be looking for in an application, and you need to have it. Multiple specialties, recommended 50-100 hours among them. If you're planning on applying DO (which I definitely would be if I were you) you must also have a LOR from a DO.

Thank you! I really appreciate your reply. That is so funny that you experienced "the shaking incident" as well (yet also, not so funny haha). But yes, I agree with what you stated about my application/personal statement. I plan for it to be honest and from the heart. As you can probably imagine, I have done nothing but learn over the past 6 years or so, both inside and outside of college. I do plan on applying to about 25 schools (yikes as far as cost goes, I know). But even BEFORE finding all of this out today about my F's from 10 years ago, I knew that I had to be realistic with my application choices. I think the hardest part about all of this for me is the surprise and initial shock of it. I don't know what exactly I was thinking; whether I thought I had W's in those courses or that perhaps they didn't count because of how old they were, I am not sure. But this is a hard pill to swallow right now. I went from thinking of myself as a competitive applicant all of this time with an assumed cGPA of like, 3.70, to realizing that I actually have a 3.09, and am on the edge of being thrown out before adcoms ever even get the chance to look at what I have to say. To clarify, I am taking the MCAT in May, applying to schools starting in June, hopefully leaving for the AmeriCorps in July, and THOUGHT I'd be matriculating into medical school in the fall of 2018. As far as finances during my service year - honestly, I was thinking public assistance. I live at home currently with my mom, and we receive it now, and I was hoping I would qualify for it as well in either MN or LA (the two states with agencies that I have heard back from). I really am looking forward to it. I'm very excited about both agencies' missions; I'd be grateful to assist either. Other than this and the aforementioned volunteering as a patient advocate (perhaps a little less than 2 years) I do not have much other volunteering experience. I've spent a lot of my time doing clinical research. With that as an EC and working part-time up until the spring of 2015, I haven't had much time to incorporate more volunteer work. However, I am more than willing to do more this entire semester if I seem to be lacking in that area. Same goes for shadowing. I have only shadowed a rheumatologist (about 24 hours) thus far. I have an email out to an emergency medicine physician (who happens to be a DO), and also a primary care physician. Hopefully I can put in a solid amount of shadowing hours with both of them. But I have intended on doing as much shadowing this semester as possible (because I know I am lacking in that area). As far as DO schools, I did plan on applying to some prior to today. Now, however, I think it would be in my best interest to apply to many more. Therefore I definitely need to develop some sort of relationship with a DO fast if I plan on getting a LOR. Also, I just read that mathematics are not included in the sGPA calculation for DO schools, so that F that I received in the elementary algebra class that I subsequently retook and received an A, won't matter anyway which is great. That should raise my sGPA there. As far as what I am going to do now... I am not sure. I mean, I could graduate and go back for more science courses, but I feel like I have shown for the past couple of years that I am able to do well in them. But again, I will do really whatever adcoms want me to at this point. I'm thinking possibly continue on as planned and cross my fingers with applications. If the odds do not end up in my favor, I will have completed a year of VISTA and I can then consider going back for a SMP or something of the sort.

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[Eccesignum]

Thank you! I really appreciate your reply. That is so funny that you experienced "the shaking incident" as well (yet also, not so funny haha). But yes, I agree with what you stated about my application/personal statement. I plan for it to be honest and from the heart. As you can probably imagine, I have done nothing but learn over the past 6 years or so, both inside and outside of college. I do plan on applying to about 25 schools (yikes as far as cost goes, I know). But even BEFORE finding all of this out today about my F's from 10 years ago, I knew that I had to be realistic with my application choices. I think the hardest part about all of this for me is the surprise and initial shock of it. I don't know what exactly I was thinking; whether I thought I had W's in those courses or that perhaps they didn't count because of how old they were, I am not sure. But this is a hard pill to swallow right now. I went from thinking of myself as a competitive applicant all of this time with an assumed cGPA of like, 3.70, to realizing that I actually have a 3.09, and am on the edge of being thrown out before adcoms ever even get the chance to look at what I have to say. To clarify, I am taking the MCAT in May, applying to schools starting in June, hopefully leaving for the AmeriCorps in July, and THOUGHT I'd be matriculating into medical school in the fall of 2018. As far as finances during my service year - honestly, I was thinking public assistance. I live at home currently with my mom, and we receive it now, and I was hoping I would qualify for it as well in either MN or LA (the two states with agencies that I have heard back from). I really am looking forward to it. I'm very excited about both agencies' missions; I'd be grateful to assist either. Other than this and the aforementioned volunteering as a patient advocate (perhaps a little less than 2 years) I do not have much other volunteering experience. I've spent a lot of my time doing clinical research. With that as an EC and working part-time up until the spring of 2015, I haven't had much time to incorporate more volunteer work. However, I am more than willing to do more this entire semester if I seem to be lacking in that area. Same goes for shadowing. I have only shadowed a rheumatologist (about 24 hours) thus far. I have an email out to an emergency medicine physician (who happens to be a DO), and also a primary care physician. Hopefully I can put in a solid amount of shadowing hours with both of them. But I have intended on doing as much shadowing this semester as possible (because I know I am lacking in that area). As far as DO schools, I did plan on applying to some prior to today. Now, however, I think it would be in my best interest to apply to many more. Therefore I definitely need to develop some sort of relationship with a DO fast if I plan on getting a LOR. Also, I just read that mathematics are not included in the sGPA calculation for DO schools, so that F that I received in the elementary algebra class that I subsequently retook and received an A, won't matter anyway which is great. That should raise my sGPA there. As far as what I am going to do now... I am not sure. I mean, I could graduate and go back for more science courses, but I feel like I have shown for the past couple of years that I am able to do well in them. But again, I will do really whatever adcoms want me to at this point. I'm thinking possibly continue on as planned and cross my fingers with applications. If the odds do not end up in my favor, I will have completed a year of VISTA and I can then consider going back for a SMP or something of the sort.

Between taking more courses and doing VISTA it's a tossup, really; it's just that doing courses with both keep strengthening your academic record and leave you time to volunteer locally, work, etc, while VISTA is a full-time gig. But both will strengthen you in one way or another (you're right that if the cycle doesn't pan out you might start thinking SMP). Be sure that your VISTA supervisor knows your situation and that the fall and spring may involve you needing to travel. Medical school interviews are generally on weekdays, and you'll need the day before to fly/drive to the site. I'm sure you'll find it'll work out, but definitely be upfront with that.

Re public assistance, I strongly suspect that you would apply for / continue receiving benefits from your state of residence rather than whatever state you did VISTA in, unless you changed your official state of residency. Be very sure about that before you jump, as I'm sure I don't need to tell you that getting public assistance can be quite a gauntlet full of eligibility issues and of course time to process.

Definitely look into the Fee Assistance Program (FAP) for AMCAS and AACOMAS and do it like yesterday since it's currently open for application and the funds do run out. You may be able to secure assistance with paying for the MCAT, the AMCAS and/or AACOMAS (the applications are separate) primary application, and a certain number of schools on the primary app. AMCAS is $160 for the primary with one school, and $38 for each subsequent school added to the primary, then $50-$100 per secondary that you return. AACOMAS is similar. Then figuring in buying a suit, plane tickets, hotel stays, food, cabs/Uber...it adds up. Check out FAP to see if you can help defray at least the beginning.

Yes, you'll need more than 24 hours of shadowing with one doctor. And yes you're lacking in volunteering, though VISTA obviously addresses that if you do it -- be sure whatever you do that it's heavy face-to-face contact with human beings; back-office work is not as helpful.

 

[Eccesignum]

Thank you! I really appreciate your reply. That is so funny that you experienced "the shaking incident" as well (yet also, not so funny haha). But yes, I agree with what you stated about my application/personal statement. I plan for it to be honest and from the heart. As you can probably imagine, I have done nothing but learn over the past 6 years or so, both inside and outside of college. I do plan on applying to about 25 schools (yikes as far as cost goes, I know). But even BEFORE finding all of this out today about my F's from 10 years ago, I knew that I had to be realistic with my application choices. I think the hardest part about all of this for me is the surprise and initial shock of it. I don't know what exactly I was thinking; whether I thought I had W's in those courses or that perhaps they didn't count because of how old they were, I am not sure. But this is a hard pill to swallow right now. I went from thinking of myself as a competitive applicant all of this time with an assumed cGPA of like, 3.70, to realizing that I actually have a 3.09, and am on the edge of being thrown out before adcoms ever even get the chance to look at what I have to say. To clarify, I am taking the MCAT in May, applying to schools starting in June, hopefully leaving for the AmeriCorps in July, and THOUGHT I'd be matriculating into medical school in the fall of 2018. As far as finances during my service year - honestly, I was thinking public assistance. I live at home currently with my mom, and we receive it now, and I was hoping I would qualify for it as well in either MN or LA (the two states with agencies that I have heard back from). I really am looking forward to it. I'm very excited about both agencies' missions; I'd be grateful to assist either. Other than this and the aforementioned volunteering as a patient advocate (perhaps a little less than 2 years) I do not have much other volunteering experience. I've spent a lot of my time doing clinical research. With that as an EC and working part-time up until the spring of 2015, I haven't had much time to incorporate more volunteer work. However, I am more than willing to do more this entire semester if I seem to be lacking in that area. Same goes for shadowing. I have only shadowed a rheumatologist (about 24 hours) thus far. I have an email out to an emergency medicine physician (who happens to be a DO), and also a primary care physician. Hopefully I can put in a solid amount of shadowing hours with both of them. But I have intended on doing as much shadowing this semester as possible (because I know I am lacking in that area). As far as DO schools, I did plan on applying to some prior to today. Now, however, I think it would be in my best interest to apply to many more. Therefore I definitely need to develop some sort of relationship with a DO fast if I plan on getting a LOR. Also, I just read that mathematics are not included in the sGPA calculation for DO schools, so that F that I received in the elementary algebra class that I subsequently retook and received an A, won't matter anyway which is great. That should raise my sGPA there. As far as what I am going to do now... I am not sure. I mean, I could graduate and go back for more science courses, but I feel like I have shown for the past couple of years that I am able to do well in them. But again, I will do really whatever adcoms want me to at this point. I'm thinking possibly continue on as planned and cross my fingers with applications. If the odds do not end up in my favor, I will have completed a year of VISTA and I can then consider going back for a SMP or something of the sort.

Also for reference this was the list of schools originally suggested to me (also partly based on my MCAT which was over 30 old scale):
Georgetown
Miami
St. Louis
Albany
Albert Einstein
Rochester
Rush
Rosalind Franklin
BU
NYMC
VCU
EVMS
U Va
Va Tech
Wake Forest
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
George Washington
Emory
USC
Tulane
Dartmouth
Loyola
Creighton
Any new MD school, especially Hofstra
Any DO program

I ended up applying to about half of that MD list and adding in about five of my own where I'd noted something in their secondary or their mission that seemed heavily geared towards someone with my background (you can see most schools' secondary questions in the school application threads here on SDN and I highly suggest looking at them before making a final school list). I also applied to 8-10 DO, again with some careful secondary essay targeting.

 

[mavric1298]

Quickly, that sounds almost exactly my situation (same thing, didn't drop classes from 2004), went back to school, etc, very similar GPA's. Just as some perspective - I had a 79th percentile MCAT, 98th in Verbal - really strong LOR and EC's - and it took me 2 cycles. I applied 18 MD to a list including most of those posted above, and got zero love (no II's) my first round last year. This year, I mostly worked on how my app was presented (wrote less formally and less like a job application in my activities section and focused on what the expierences meant to me) and have 2 DO acceptances, did 2 MD interviews, and am waiting to hear back on those. Applied to 29 MD/DO this cycle.


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[SkiBum8]

Hey guys.

I wanted to post here quick to see if I can obtain some advice and perhaps maybe some confidence. I am planning to apply to medical schools in the beginning of June, and today I decided that I should probably get on calculating my cGPA and sGPA AAMC-style for the first time. I knew that I would have to submit transcripts from all colleges attended, but little did I know that back in 2005 - 2007, when I was fresh out of high school and attending a community college for forensic investigations/criminal justice, I never WITHDREW from a couple of semesters, resulting in multiple F's. I have spent the entirety of my night shaking and calculating GPAs, and it turns out that I have an allotherGPA of 2.43, a sGPA of 3.54, and a cGPA of 3.09. I have one semester left of my Bachelor's degree in Neuroscience. Here are my stats currently:

I have a 3.90 GPA from my current college (I've been here for 2 academic years: 2015-16 and 2016-17). I have two interviews for a position as an AmeriCorps VISTA member for my gap year (2017-2018), which hopefully I will be chosen for at least one. I will be taking the MCAT in May, which I hope/expect to get an above-average score on (thinking in terms of current academic ability/grades). Last 6 years or so of relevant coursework (2010-2016):

Basic Math Skills - A
Intro General Psychology - A
Essentials Chemistry 1 - A
Essentials Chemistry 2 - B
Anatomy & Physiology 1 - A
Elementary Statistics - A
Medical Terminology - A
General Biology 1 - A
Anatomy & Physiology 2 - A
Intermediate Mathematics - A
Practicum in Human Dissection - A
History of Civilization 1 - B
History of Civilization 2 - D
Microbiology - C
College Algebra & Trigonometry - C

Most Recent (2014-2016):
General Biology 2 - B
Precalculus - A
General Chemistry 1 - B
General Physics 1 - B
Abnormal Psychology - A
General Chemistry 2 - A
Introd Standard Biochemical Research/Biomedical Research Laboratory Research - A
Effective Speech - A
General Physics 2 - A
Research Methods 1 - A
Genetics - A
Histology - A
Organic Chemistry 1 - A
Cell Biology - A-
Practicum in Biology/Biomedical Research Laboratory Research - A
Organic Chemistry 2 - A
Calculus 1 - B
Select Topics: Autism - A
Research Methods 2 - A
Neuroscience - A
Endocrinology - A
Biochemistry 1 - A
Virology - A

I am hoping/expecting to receive an A in my upcoming and final courses this semester (Molecular Biology, Biochemistry 2, Basic Psychobiology, Senior Seminar: Stem Cells, and Senior Research). I thought I was in a good position going into the medical school admissions process, but as previously mentioned with my cGPA and sGPA just calculated today, I am not. My cGPA being lower than expected (and maybe even sGPA) are mostly due to this:

Fall 2005:
Intro Criminal Justice - C-
Criminal Substantive Law - B
English 1: College Writing - B
Freshman Seminar - A
Intro to Microsoft Word - C+
Intro Psychology - C-

Spring 2006:
Criminal Procedure Law - F
English 2: Intro to Literature - B
Elementary Algebra - F (which did NOT help my sGPA at all.... [repeated with an A])
Constitutional Law - F

Spring 2007:
Criminal Procedure Law - F
Intro Private Security - F
Intro Private Security - F
Intro Sociology - B-

I'm sorry for being excessive; I just want to give the overall scope of my situation in detail. I am a returning student (29 years old). I am a recovering alcoholic approaching my 5 year (woohoo!!) anniversary of choosing sobriety. I checked myself into an inpatient rehabilitation facility on March 18th, 2012 (precisely because I knew that I would not be able to uphold the grades necessary to get into medical school). I have done a few semesters worth of molecular genetics research at biomedical research laboratory in my area. I was accepted twice into the same lab's Summer Fellowship program, where I again did molecular genetics research in the area of cardiac electrophysiology. I have presented posters and given presentations/talks at conferences/meetings. I have received multiple scholarships towards my tuition at my current college and have been on both the Dean's High Honor List and Dean's List for all of my semesters there. I am currently starting independent research on the disease known as interstitial cystitis, in a collaboration with a local urologist. I have volunteered as a Patient Advocate at a local hospital, I was previously employed as a Phlebotomist/Laboratory Assistant at the same hospital, and as previously mentioned, I will hopefully be an AmeriCorps VISTA member for the next year. My LORs should be great as well (I am assuming, yes, but I really do work hard in all of my courses).

So my question is to all of you (and also adcoms): What do you think here??? I am now overwhelmed with fear. I have been working so hard for the past 6 years (as I'm sure many of you can understand and resonate with). I had no idea that all of those F's from 10 years ago even existed, let alone counted against me. My premedical advisor is currently on sabbatical, but I know I have other professors that I can talk to about this once the spring semester commences. But honestly - I'm not even sure now if I can apply. Are there GPA cutoffs? I don't know how to proceed from here.. Any advice that you have would be welcomed and greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading all of this, and again I apologize for getting into the gory details. I'm just really scared at this point, and I don't know what to think of all of this. I'm so, SO worried about that cGPA.

Thanks guys.

Honestly, this sounds similar to my situation, except I had even less time than you between "Old" me and current day... and I got in!

I think your #1 goal should be to get an MCAT score that pairs with the 3.9GPA from your current college (>510). This would be another big datapoint that emphasizes you are really a changed person. Doing this, in many ways, would "void" your older grades to the point that AdComs would give you an interview.

If you do that, I honestly would apply broadly - like include an IVY broadly. I've had more love from MD schools with my record than I did from DO schools, so don't rule any of them out. Especially if you do an an AmeriCorps year rather than more classes...

And to @mavric1298 's point:

This year, I mostly worked on how my app was presented (wrote less formally and less like a job application in my activities section and focused on what the experiences meant to me)

You want to write about what you've learned during the highs and lows of your last decade, not just what you did. That's what AdComs really look for and why they will show you love on your application.

I wish you the best of luck! I think you could have the best cycle of any of us, especially with a great MCAT!

 

[bluegrass belle]

I love this thread.

I am terrified now that AACOMAS is dropping the grade replacement policy, but you all have provided some relief. Thank you for that!

I graduated with a 2.3 GPA and >120 credit hours the first time around. Oh, the damage. Now, I'm doing a DIY post-bacc in Neuroscience and Biology.

I am applying to my in-state MD schools (KY resident), and had recently decided that I would apply to as many DO schools as I could. Then AACOMAS announced the change. I have ~3.7 in my post-bacc, and am almost 2 years in - all upper-level science and math courses. With grade replacement, I could have had a 3.4 sGPA, and a 3.12 cGPA. This hurts.

 

[BigDogRob2015]

I love this thread.

I am terrified now that AACOMAS is dropping the grade replacement policy, but you all have provided some relief. Thank you for that!

I graduated with a 2.3 GPA and >120 credit hours the first time around. Oh, the damage. Now, I'm doing a DIY post-bacc in Neuroscience and Biology (B.S. in each), and a minor in German (to help out my aoGPA).

I am applying to my in-state MD schools (KY resident), and had recently decided that I would also apply to as many DO schools as I could. Then AACOMAS announced the change. I have ~3.7 in my post-bacc, and am almost 2 years in - all upper-level science and math courses. I have another 1.5 yrs (at least) to go, so that I can reach that magical 3.0 in each category (cGPA, sGPA, etc.). With grade replacement, I could have had a 3.4 sGPA, and a 3.12 cGPA. This hurts.

I'm giving up my $50,000/yr job in May (not the best, but not the worst) for a summer research program, because I know that research will only help my chances.

I am leaving my life behind, and between an unknown MCAT outcome and the AACOMAS change, I am.. well, just wondering if there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for letting me vent.

I feel ya, grade deletion being removed took me from a 3.4-3.5 down to a 3.0. But, if you can get that GPA to the 3.0 level, couple it with a nice MCAT, you're going to have to have a real chance!

 

[bluegrass belle]

Thanks @BigDogRob2015, I needed to hear that! Where will you be applying?

 

[BigDogRob2015]

Thanks @BigDogRob2015, I needed to hear that! Where will you be applying?

I plan on applying to most the DO schools (besides 1 or 2), and a couple of MD. The MD schools are purely going to be all state-schools (OH-resident.) I'll probably add some of the MD schools that I have heard reward reinvention (I remember seeing Goro post a list somewhere.)

 

[Eccesignum]

I plan on applying to most the DO schools (besides 1 or 2), and a couple of MD. The MD schools are purely going to be all state-schools (OH-resident.) I'll probably add some of the MD schools that I have heard reward reinvention (I remember seeing Goro post a list somewhere.)

The list I posted above is Goro's Famous List.

 

[BigDogRob2015]

The list I posted above is Goro's Famous List.

I knew I saw that list somewhere.

 

[Eccesignum]

I knew I saw that list somewhere.

From experience I would also add in Wayne State (their policy of only looking at recent science grades for sGPA is a real help for some folks), and also Case Western Reserve if your MCAT is very strong and you've done/have strong interest in research.

 

[Dr. In Formation]

Now that there is no DO grade replacement option, I have no idea where to go from here. None whatsoever. Just came from another thread where people are saying "the only people who will really be affected are those with really low gpas" Well yes. I am one of those people. I am very deep in the GPA hole and was grateful to have an option that would allow me to achieve my dream. Another # of years at my age to get to a 3.0 and hopefully get into med school? I can't think clearly right now. I am so upset.

Hey! Deep breaths. SIU MedPrep. GPA requirement 2.20

http://www.siumed.edu/medprep/gpa.html

Applications are open until 1/17/17.

Keep calm and slay.

 

[DrBelle]

Hey! Deep breaths. SIU MedPrep. GPA requirement 2.20

http://www.siumed.edu/medprep/gpa.html

Applications are open until 1/17/17.

Keep calm and slay.

Since Beyonce is basically my Beysus (no exaggeration but you already know how fans can get), I take this as some sort of symbolism, to heart lol.

Thank you so much for sharing the wealth. I will take a look-see right now. :-D

#iSlay

 

[astrostellar]

Without grade replacement, I'm currently at a 2.33 cumulative and a 1.52 BCPM/1.28 sGPA. LOL! Digging myself out of a hole... 1-2 classes at a time. Hashtag military life. Only five more years of this to go!

 

[hall1ms1b]

Without grade replacement, I'm currently at a 2.33 cumulative and a 1.52 BCPM/1.28 sGPA. LOL! Digging myself out of a hole... 1-2 classes at a time. Hashtag military life. Only five more years of this to go!

1-2 classes per semester?


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[mavric1298]

Make sure at some point to do more than 1-2 a semester. You'll need at least one or two with more - otherwise it's doesn't show them you can handle the rigors of medical school.


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[icedearth33]

Between taking more courses and doing VISTA it's a tossup, really; it's just that doing courses with both keep strengthening your academic record and leave you time to volunteer locally, work, etc, while VISTA is a full-time gig. But both will strengthen you in one way or another (you're right that if the cycle doesn't pan out you might start thinking SMP). Be sure that your VISTA supervisor knows your situation and that the fall and spring may involve you needing to travel. Medical school interviews are generally on weekdays, and you'll need the day before to fly/drive to the site. I'm sure you'll find it'll work out, but definitely be upfront with that.

Re public assistance, I strongly suspect that you would apply for / continue receiving benefits from your state of residence rather than whatever state you did VISTA in, unless you changed your official state of residency. Be very sure about that before you jump, as I'm sure I don't need to tell you that getting public assistance can be quite a gauntlet full of eligibility issues and of course time to process.

Definitely look into the Fee Assistance Program (FAP) for AMCAS and AACOMAS and do it like yesterday since it's currently open for application and the funds do run out. You may be able to secure assistance with paying for the MCAT, the AMCAS and/or AACOMAS (the applications are separate) primary application, and a certain number of schools on the primary app. AMCAS is $160 for the primary with one school, and $38 for each subsequent school added to the primary, then $50-$100 per secondary that you return. AACOMAS is similar. Then figuring in buying a suit, plane tickets, hotel stays, food, cabs/Uber...it adds up. Check out FAP to see if you can help defray at least the beginning.

Yes, you'll need more than 24 hours of shadowing with one doctor. And yes you're lacking in volunteering, though VISTA obviously addresses that if you do it -- be sure whatever you do that it's heavy face-to-face contact with human beings; back-office work is not as helpful.

Thank you for all of your advice! I will most definitely be upfront with AmeriCorps about interviews and traveling. I have two interviews with them next week! As far as public assistance goes, I don't believe I will be changing my official state of residency for the year, so I am going to look into which state I should apply for asap. I started my application today for the Fee Assistance Program through AAMC! Just the thought of possibly qualifying is such a weight lifted off of my shoulders. So I'm hoping for the best with that! I have talked to me premedical advisor and another professor of mine, and both encouraged me to go forward with applying this cycle. They both seem pretty confident I will have some positive results given all aspects of my application. So on that note, we shall see!

 

[icedearth33]

Also for reference this was the list of schools originally suggested to me (also partly based on my MCAT which was over 30 old scale):
Georgetown
Miami
St. Louis
Albany
Albert Einstein
Rochester
Rush
Rosalind Franklin
BU
NYMC
VCU
EVMS
U Va
Va Tech
Wake Forest
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
George Washington
Emory
USC
Tulane
Dartmouth
Loyola
Creighton
Any new MD school, especially Hofstra
Any DO program

I ended up applying to about half of that MD list and adding in about five of my own where I'd noted something in their secondary or their mission that seemed heavily geared towards someone with my background (you can see most schools' secondary questions in the school application threads here on SDN and I highly suggest looking at them before making a final school list). I also applied to 8-10 DO, again with some careful secondary essay targeting.

I worked on my list today and 13 of those schools ended up on it.

 

[icedearth33]

Quickly, that sounds almost exactly my situation (same thing, didn't drop classes from 2004), went back to school, etc, very similar GPA's. Just as some perspective - I had a 79th percentile MCAT, 98th in Verbal - really strong LOR and EC's - and it took me 2 cycles. I applied 18 MD to a list including most of those posted above, and got zero love (no II's) my first round last year. This year, I mostly worked on how my app was presented (wrote less formally and less like a job application in my activities section and focused on what the expierences meant to me) and have 2 DO acceptances, did 2 MD interviews, and am waiting to hear back on those. Applied to 29 MD/DO this cycle.


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That is excellent news!!! Congratulations! And thank you.

 

[icedearth33]

Honestly, this sounds similar to my situation, except I had even less time than you between "Old" me and current day... and I got in!

I think your #1 goal should be to get an MCAT score that pairs with the 3.9GPA from your current college (>510). This would be another big datapoint that emphasizes you are really a changed person. Doing this, in many ways, would "void" your older grades to the point that AdComs would give you an interview.

If you do that, I honestly would apply broadly - like include an IVY broadly. I've had more love from MD schools with my record than I did from DO schools, so don't rule any of them out. Especially if you do an an AmeriCorps year rather than more classes...

And to @mavric1298 's point:


You want to write about what you've learned during the highs and lows of your last decade, not just what you did. That's what AdComs really look for and why they will show you love on your application.

I wish you the best of luck! I think you could have the best cycle of any of us, especially with a great MCAT!

Wow, I really appreciate that!! I am going to do just that - work my butt off for the MCAT and speak from the heart when it comes to my experiences on my applications. And congratulations to you!!

 

[mavric1298]

Thanks! Just go into the cycle knowing it's going to be long - it can be brutal on your mindset and overall mental health. It's such a numbers game, luck (did your app reviewer have a bad day when they got to reading yours, or did they just just have a delicious meal and have an endorphin high and are stoked on life), and chance play a huge factor - it's good to keep in mind the honest truth that it's not a good reflection of who you are. You are boiled down to 15 snippets of "activities", a couple pages of grades, a test score, and 2 page person statement. If you have success it's because you worked hard and deserved it, and if you don't and have to apply again, that's doesn't mean you don't deserve it. That was a tough lesson for myself to overcome - not feeling inadequate when the first cycle didn't go my way. Deep down I knew who I was, how much I have put into this, and was frusterated that adcoms couldn't see that. It was 9 of the longest months in my 30 years on this planet, but perseverance pays off.

If you need any help with the actual app/writing activities/PS don't hesitate to PM, gotta pay it forward and I really enjoy helping fellow non-trads and premeds in general.


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[icedearth33]

Thanks! Just go into the cycle knowing it's going to be long - it can be brutal on your mindset and overall mental health. It's such a numbers game, luck (did your app reviewer have a bad day when they got to reading yours, or did they just just have a delicious meal and have an endorphin high and are stoked on life), and chance play a huge factor - it's good to keep in mind the honest truth that it's not a good reflection of who you are. You are boiled down to 15 snippets of "activities", a couple pages of grades, a test score, and 2 page person statement. If you have success it's because you worked hard and deserved it, and if you don't and have to apply again, that's doesn't mean you don't deserve it. That was a tough lesson for myself to overcome - not feeling inadequate when the first cycle didn't go my way. Deep down I knew who I was, how much I have put into this, and was frusterated that adcoms couldn't see that. It was 9 of the longest months in my 30 years on this planet, but perseverance pays off.

If you need any help with the actual app/writing activities/PS don't hesitate to PM, gotta pay it forward and I really enjoy helping fellow non-trads and premeds in general.


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Thank you for that! And I can only imagine. That is all I've heard; how taxing the process is. I'll be filled with anxiety for the entire following year, I'm sure. I applaud you for reapplying. I've always said that if the first time applying does not work out well for me I will attempt it again, and most likely again. I hope I don't come off as arrogantly confident or anything like that by saying this, but, honestly... I feel like I have spent so many years now fighting with so many odds against me, that I almost see this entire process as just another struggle for me to get through. Like "come at me bro!", I'm ready! haha If I've developed one thing and one thing only, it's resilience.

Doesn't mean I'm looking forward to it though. Lol

 

[Eccesignum]

Thank you for all of your advice! I will most definitely be upfront with AmeriCorps about interviews and traveling. I have two interviews with them next week! As far as public assistance goes, I don't believe I will be changing my official state of residency for the year, so I am going to look into which state I should apply for asap. I started my application today for the Fee Assistance Program through AAMC! Just the thought of possibly qualifying is such a weight lifted off of my shoulders. So I'm hoping for the best with that! I have talked to me premedical advisor and another professor of mine, and both encouraged me to go forward with applying this cycle. They both seem pretty confident I will have some positive results given all aspects of my application. So on that note, we shall see!

I worked on my list today and 13 of those schools ended up on it.

Good deal. Add all your public state schools; they tend to favor in-state applicants (not universally true but mostly). Also look into Wayne State.

Your MCAT will help you fine-tune your final list. With a strong score you can afford some reasonable YOLOs. Be sure and get the MSAR if you don't have it already, it will tell you average stats and a lot of other information about all US MD schools. Very helpful for figuring out how by-the-numbers competitive you are.

Also be sure and take a look at school secondaries from last year (you can find that in the pre-allo application threads) and take the time to research schools. Many have a particular mission -- Tulane, Rush, and Boston for example are extremely community-oriented and really like people with community service backgrounds. You can kind of tell that by looking at their secondaries (Boston's a little more subtle but trust me). Also browse around school websites, note their mission statements, what they stress on their sites, etc. You'll find some surprises. I applied to a total YOLO that I had seriously no business applying to by my pure stats alone, but I got the strong impression from how they presented their mission that I would fit it. And I did end up accepted. It's not all a numbers game.

Like "come at me bro!", I'm ready! haha If I've developed one thing and one thing only, it's resilience.

I was at one interview and the interviewer had asked me how I felt about the challenge of applying to med school. I got a bit carried away answering and at the end was like, "So I just say bring it on!" He looked at me a minute and then literally wrote on his sheet 'Bring it on'. LOL!

I now attend that school

 

[SkiBum8]

Make sure at some point to do more than 1-2 a semester. You'll need at least one or two with more - otherwise it's doesn't show them you can handle the rigors of medical school.


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I disagree with this to some extent. Granted it's a sample size of just me, but I only ever took one course per semester and it seems to have been sufficient to show the "changed" me.

I will say though, that I think it's important to show that you can handle >FULL-TIME work/engagement, but it doesn't have to be exclusively in the academic realm.

In my case, I worked ~50+ hrs/week, volunteered 6-8hrs/week, took the MCAT, and BioChem at the same time. All-in-all, it was 70-80 hrs/week, but only 3 academic credits worth. So while yes, you'll want to show them you can handle applying yourself full-time, it doesn't have to be exclusively in an academic realm...

 

[holdthemayo]

Hey guys.

I wanted to post here quick to see if I can obtain some advice and perhaps maybe some confidence. I am planning to apply to medical schools in the beginning of June, and today I decided that I should probably get on calculating my cGPA and sGPA AAMC-style for the first time. I knew that I would have to submit transcripts from all colleges attended, but little did I know that back in 2005 - 2007, when I was fresh out of high school and attending a community college for forensic investigations/criminal justice, I never WITHDREW from a couple of semesters, resulting in multiple F's. I have spent the entirety of my night shaking and calculating GPAs, and it turns out that I have an allotherGPA of 2.43, a sGPA of 3.54, and a cGPA of 3.09. I have one semester left of my Bachelor's degree in Neuroscience. Here are my stats currently:

I have a 3.90 GPA from my current college (I've been here for 2 academic years: 2015-16 and 2016-17). I have two interviews for a position as an AmeriCorps VISTA member for my gap year (2017-2018), which hopefully I will be chosen for at least one. I will be taking the MCAT in May, which I hope/expect to get an above-average score on (thinking in terms of current academic ability/grades). Last 6 years or so of relevant coursework (2010-2016):

Basic Math Skills - A
Intro General Psychology - A
Essentials Chemistry 1 - A
Essentials Chemistry 2 - B
Anatomy & Physiology 1 - A
Elementary Statistics - A
Medical Terminology - A
General Biology 1 - A
Anatomy & Physiology 2 - A
Intermediate Mathematics - A
Practicum in Human Dissection - A
History of Civilization 1 - B
History of Civilization 2 - D
Microbiology - C
College Algebra & Trigonometry - C

Most Recent (2014-2016):
General Biology 2 - B
Precalculus - A
General Chemistry 1 - B
General Physics 1 - B
Abnormal Psychology - A
General Chemistry 2 - A
Introd Standard Biochemical Research/Biomedical Research Laboratory Research - A
Effective Speech - A
General Physics 2 - A
Research Methods 1 - A
Genetics - A
Histology - A
Organic Chemistry 1 - A
Cell Biology - A-
Practicum in Biology/Biomedical Research Laboratory Research - A
Organic Chemistry 2 - A
Calculus 1 - B
Select Topics: Autism - A
Research Methods 2 - A
Neuroscience - A
Endocrinology - A
Biochemistry 1 - A
Virology - A

I am hoping/expecting to receive an A in my upcoming and final courses this semester (Molecular Biology, Biochemistry 2, Basic Psychobiology, Senior Seminar: Stem Cells, and Senior Research). I thought I was in a good position going into the medical school admissions process, but as previously mentioned with my cGPA and sGPA just calculated today, I am not. My cGPA being lower than expected (and maybe even sGPA) are mostly due to this:

Fall 2005:
Intro Criminal Justice - C-
Criminal Substantive Law - B
English 1: College Writing - B
Freshman Seminar - A
Intro to Microsoft Word - C+
Intro Psychology - C-

Spring 2006:
Criminal Procedure Law - F
English 2: Intro to Literature - B
Elementary Algebra - F (which did NOT help my sGPA at all.... [repeated with an A])
Constitutional Law - F

Spring 2007:
Criminal Procedure Law - F
Intro Private Security - F
Intro Private Security - F
Intro Sociology - B-

I'm sorry for being excessive; I just want to give the overall scope of my situation in detail. I am a returning student (29 years old). I am a recovering alcoholic approaching my 5 year (woohoo!!) anniversary of choosing sobriety. I checked myself into an inpatient rehabilitation facility on March 18th, 2012 (precisely because I knew that I would not be able to uphold the grades necessary to get into medical school). I have done a few semesters worth of molecular genetics research at biomedical research laboratory in my area. I was accepted twice into the same lab's Summer Fellowship program, where I again did molecular genetics research in the area of cardiac electrophysiology. I have presented posters and given presentations/talks at conferences/meetings. I have received multiple scholarships towards my tuition at my current college and have been on both the Dean's High Honor List and Dean's List for all of my semesters there. I am currently starting independent research on the disease known as interstitial cystitis, in a collaboration with a local urologist. I have volunteered as a Patient Advocate at a local hospital, I was previously employed as a Phlebotomist/Laboratory Assistant at the same hospital, and as previously mentioned, I will hopefully be an AmeriCorps VISTA member for the next year. My LORs should be great as well (I am assuming, yes, but I really do work hard in all of my courses).

So my question is to all of you (and also adcoms): What do you think here??? I am now overwhelmed with fear. I have been working so hard for the past 6 years (as I'm sure many of you can understand and resonate with). I had no idea that all of those F's from 10 years ago even existed, let alone counted against me. My premedical advisor is currently on sabbatical, but I know I have other professors that I can talk to about this once the spring semester commences. But honestly - I'm not even sure now if I can apply. Are there GPA cutoffs? I don't know how to proceed from here.. Any advice that you have would be welcomed and greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading all of this, and again I apologize for getting into the gory details. I'm just really scared at this point, and I don't know what to think of all of this. I'm so, SO worried about that cGPA.

Thanks guys.

I know a few other people have said the same thing already, but my story is very similar. I have not shared many specifics on SDN, but I also started college more than a decade ago with a year of mostly Ds and Fs. I got my act together, but with that bad start my AMCAS gpa when finishing was a 2.7. My sGPA was lower (but fewer credits). I had always wanted to be a physician, but I basically gave up on that dream after my first semester. Everyone who knew my situation told me that dream was dead. Doctors don't fail Freshman year. I finished with a non-science degree and tried to move on with my life, but I couldn't shake the dream.

Eventually I found SDN and found some people who had come back from similar situations. I did a 60 credit 4.0 DIY post-bac after graduating. I was able to get my cGPA up to a 3.1. I had too many credits to realistically get it much higher than that. I studied for the MCAT 6 days a week for 4 and got 95%<score. Result: I will be attending an MD school in the fall.

Basically, I'm sharing because I know what it feels like to have a bunch of Fs hanging over you from a decade ago threatening to undo years of hard work.

I agree with the advice SkiBum8 and Eccesignum have given you. Take your MCAT prep very seriously. A good MCAT score coupled with your more recent grades are going to make it clear that you are not the same student you were in 2005-2007. Apply broadly using the list that Eccesignum posted. It sounds like your ECs are solid and Americorp is another great EC. There are no guarantees in this, but I think you have a good chance at an MD IIs with a good MCAT. If you are applying DO I'd be shocked if you didn't have multiple II.

Good Luck!

 

[icedearth33]

I know a few other people have said the same thing already, but my story is very similar. I have not shared many specifics on SDN, but I also started college more than a decade ago with a year of mostly Ds and Fs. I got my act together, but with that bad start my AMCAS gpa when finishing was a 2.7. My sGPA was lower (but fewer credits). I had always wanted to be a physician, but I basically gave up on that dream after my first semester. Everyone who knew my situation told me that dream was dead. Doctors don't fail Freshman year. I finished with a non-science degree and tried to move on with my life, but I couldn't shake the dream.

Eventually I found SDN and found some people who had come back from similar situations. I did a 60 credit 4.0 DIY post-bac after graduating. I was able to get my cGPA up to a 3.1. I had too many credits to realistically get it much higher than that. I studied for the MCAT 6 days a week for 4 and got 95%<score. Result: I will be attending an MD school in the fall.

Basically, I'm sharing because I know what it feels like to have a bunch of Fs hanging over you from a decade ago threatening to undo years of hard work.

I agree with the advice SkiBum8 and Eccesignum have given you. Take your MCAT prep very seriously. A good MCAT score coupled with your more recent grades are going to make it clear that you are not the same student you were in 2005-2007. Apply broadly using the list that Eccesignum posted. It sounds like your ECs are solid and Americorp is another great EC. There are no guarantees in this, but I think you have a good chance at an MD IIs with a good MCAT. If you are applying DO I'd be shocked if you didn't have multiple II.

Good Luck!

Thank you so much for that!!! I have heard many, many times now from all of this, exactly what you have said about the MCAT. I plan on working that much harder now to get the best grade that I possibly can. Congratulations on your success also!

So my question to everyone is - how much time do you think is appropriate to dedicate to MCAT studying per week if I'm shooting for let's say, a 518? I have the Kaplan complete subject book set that I'll be studying from, along with another book that I plan on purchasing with 100+ more CARS passages. This semester I am taking Molecular Biology + lab, Biochemistry II, Psychobiology, Stem Cell Biology, and Senior Research (Independent research). I am free after 2pm on Mondays, 11:30am on Tuesdays, 10:30am on Wednesdays, 3pm on Thursdays, and 5pm on Fridays. Saturdays and Sundays free. This is not including shadowing I will be doing this semester, all of my time spent on my research, and perhaps a bit more community service or volunteering.

Do you guys think 3 hours everyday, for 6 days a week? Or more? I plan on taking the exam on May 17th I believe it is. This is my last semester of college so I have to be sure that I don't take a GPA hit. I can't really afford one either.

 

[icedearth33]

Good deal. Add all your public state schools; they tend to favor in-state applicants (not universally true but mostly). Also look into Wayne State.

Your MCAT will help you fine-tune your final list. With a strong score you can afford some reasonable YOLOs. Be sure and get the MSAR if you don't have it already, it will tell you average stats and a lot of other information about all US MD schools. Very helpful for figuring out how by-the-numbers competitive you are.

Also be sure and take a look at school secondaries from last year (you can find that in the pre-allo application threads) and take the time to research schools. Many have a particular mission -- Tulane, Rush, and Boston for example are extremely community-oriented and really like people with community service backgrounds. You can kind of tell that by looking at their secondaries (Boston's a little more subtle but trust me). Also browse around school websites, note their mission statements, what they stress on their sites, etc. You'll find some surprises. I applied to a total YOLO that I had seriously no business applying to by my pure stats alone, but I got the strong impression from how they presented their mission that I would fit it. And I did end up accepted. It's not all a numbers game.


I was at one interview and the interviewer had asked me how I felt about the challenge of applying to med school. I got a bit carried away answering and at the end was like, "So I just say bring it on!" He looked at me a minute and then literally wrote on his sheet 'Bring it on'. LOL!

I now attend that school

LOL That is awesome!!! Perfect answer. And I'm sure they respected your honesty.

 

[Eccesignum]

Thank you so much for that!!! I have heard many, many times now from all of this, exactly what you have said about the MCAT. I plan on working that much harder now to get the best grade that I possibly can. Congratulations on your success also!

So my question to everyone is - how much time do you think is appropriate to dedicate to MCAT studying per week if I'm shooting for let's say, a 518? I have the Kaplan complete subject book set that I'll be studying from, along with another book that I plan on purchasing with 100+ more CARS passages. This semester I am taking Molecular Biology + lab, Biochemistry II, Psychobiology, Stem Cell Biology, and Senior Research (Independent research). I am free after 2pm on Mondays, 11:30am on Tuesdays, 10:30am on Wednesdays, 3pm on Thursdays, and 5pm on Fridays. Saturdays and Sundays free. This is not including shadowing I will be doing this semester, all of my time spent on my research, and perhaps a bit more community service or volunteering.

Do you guys think 3 hours everyday, for 6 days a week? Or more? I plan on taking the exam on May 17th I believe it is. This is my last semester of college so I have to be sure that I don't take a GPA hit. I can't really afford one either.

It depends how strong you are when you start. This is why most people (including me) recommend taking a practice test first with zero studying and see where your weaknesses lie. That will tell you what you need to spend the bulk of your time on. If you destroy biology on the cold exam but get a 40th percentile in CARS, then you know you need to get up close and personal with CARS.

Most people seem to need anywhere from 1-3 months, and again that really depends how much work you need on how many sections. Someone scoring poorly on multiple sections will need a more intense period than someone scoring fairly high with a deficit in one section. Take a practice exam and then make a schedule for yourself.

Leave at least one practice exam (I took the old MCAT so I have no idea how many are available for new) for a week or two before the real test. Take that one in strict test conditions, right down to time of day that you scheduled the real one. If at that point you're not scoring strongly (I'd say 80th percentile at very very least), cancel your exam.

 

[mavric1298]

I have a whole lot of MCAT advice I'd be happy to pass along, but as a starter, eccesignum is EXACTLY correct. Take a cold MCAT to get a baseline. I improved 8 points (if i remember correctly) from my baseline to my actual score, in about 3 months, while working a career level full time job. I know I could have got at least a couple points higher if I was able to dedicate myself to the exam, but simply I couldn't, and I knew it and was okay with it. I have a whole speech about why I personally think prep classes are a good thing - and it has very little to do with content. I can't remember which thread I posted it in yesterday, but I can go find it and cross post it later.

@SkiBum8 the only reason I mentioned that was that was the advice I was given from pretty much everyone. From premed advisors, to the dean of admission at UW, to some of the adcoms on here. I did 1-2 classes for almost my entire time, and everyone I've talked to said basically "while we know you are working full time and going to school, that's simply not the same as a higher course load"....so I think I had one or two quarters with a larger load. Obviously all of this is a touch n=1 and he said/she said, but that was by far one of the most agreed upon pieces of advice I had been given


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[SkiBum8]

Thank you so much for that!!! I have heard many, many times now from all of this, exactly what you have said about the MCAT. I plan on working that much harder now to get the best grade that I possibly can. Congratulations on your success also!

So my question to everyone is - how much time do you think is appropriate to dedicate to MCAT studying per week if I'm shooting for let's say, a 518? I have the Kaplan complete subject book set that I'll be studying from, along with another book that I plan on purchasing with 100+ more CARS passages. This semester I am taking Molecular Biology + lab, Biochemistry II, Psychobiology, Stem Cell Biology, and Senior Research (Independent research). I am free after 2pm on Mondays, 11:30am on Tuesdays, 10:30am on Wednesdays, 3pm on Thursdays, and 5pm on Fridays. Saturdays and Sundays free. This is not including shadowing I will be doing this semester, all of my time spent on my research, and perhaps a bit more community service or volunteering.

Do you guys think 3 hours everyday, for 6 days a week? Or more? I plan on taking the exam on May 17th I believe it is. This is my last semester of college so I have to be sure that I don't take a GPA hit. I can't really afford one either.

I did a rough search on here, and other forums, and found that on average, students who scored >90% studied 250-350 hours.

Knowing my goal, and the reality of not having taken any of the prerequisites for a decade, I set a goal of 500 hours prep for my MCAT. Working full time meant that at 3hrs/day, I had to start my prep 6 months beforehand. So this is the piece that's most critical. I think you need to figure backwards from your test day and how many hours a week you think is sustainable.

In the end, I only made it slightly past 350 hours of studying - but they were quality. No long breaks. No Facebook. Nothing but active studying went into the 350 number.

So to @mavric1298's point, take a cold practice exam and see how far away you are from your goal.

I found for every 10 hours of studying, I improved 3/4ths of a point. Your benchmark is probably different, but figure 1/2 to 1 point for every 10 hours and that'll help you figure out how much you need to do to close the gap. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Violagirl]

@Violagirl

Us underdawgs can't ever give up or surrender just because of this bump in the road. I might apply in 2018 or 2019. What year do you think you will be able to apply?

I couldn't agree more Shotapp! If anything, this just makes me more determined to prove that I have what it takes and can handle the rigors of med school. I'm thinking I will apply in 2019 or 2020. I want to bring my GPA up as much as possible and go in with as many volunteer and shadowing hours as possible.

 

[impervious0ne]

@icedearth33

You listed Creighton twice on your list. Also I don't think Emory has a good reputation for accepting non-trads.

 

[icedearth33]

@icedearth33

You listed Creighton twice on your list. Also I don't think Emory has a good reputation for accepting non-trads.

You mean Eccesignum's list?

 

[icedearth33]

I did a rough search on here, and other forums, and found that on average, students who scored >90% studied 250-350 hours.

Knowing my goal, and the reality of not having taken any of the prerequisites for a decade, I set a goal of 500 hours prep for my MCAT. Working full time meant that at 3hrs/day, I had to start my prep 6 months beforehand. So this is the piece that's most critical. I think you need to figure backwards from your test day and how many hours a week you think is sustainable.

In the end, I only made it slightly past 350 hours of studying - but they were quality. No long breaks. No Facebook. Nothing but active studying went into the 350 number.

So to @mavric1298's point, take a cold practice exam and see how far away you are from your goal.

I found for every 10 hours of studying, I improved 3/4ths of a point. Your benchmark is probably different, but figure 1/2 to 1 point for every 10 hours and that'll help you figure out how much you need to do to close the gap. Just my 2 cents.

Taking your advice into consideration, I have decided I will study about 22 hours per week until May. Hopefully I will hit just above 350 hours.

 

[Eccesignum]

@icedearth33

You listed Creighton twice on your list. Also I don't think Emory has a good reputation for accepting non-trads.

You mean Eccesignum's list?

You mean Goro's list? It's the opinion of an SDNer who's been an adcom for a long time.

With any school recommended by anyone, we have to do our own homework. Emory wasn't on my own final list, as after some extensive site snooping and thread reading I didn't feel I personally aligned as well with their general focus and mission as I did with others. But there are was another SDNer from last year's non-trad thread who got into Emory. I was rejected from several of the schools on that list. I also got into several, and now attend a school on that list.

Nobody's psychic about this, you've just got to look at recommendations and other options and apply to where you feel you've got the strongest chances.

 

[TNDO]

Hey guys! With much hesitation I am finally able to say I am a part of this group and looking for some hope and insight.

I am thinking of just getting another undergraduate degree at a public university (I graduated from a private one in 2015 in Biochemistry) in Chemistry. Here is some of my info:

AMCAS: cGpa: 2.9, sGpa: 2.54 and MCAT: 485 (I got the same score twice). I graduated with a 2.98 overall gpa though, but I know that doesn't really matter. idk.

After a long reflection on my life and whether I still want to go down this route I chose yes...my only desire is to be a doctor, but my low-self esteem the last three years of college got me to a downward trend. My professor thought I was depressed(going from deans list to 2.9), but I was too scared and ashamed to get a medical diagnosis, so I will just call it low-self esteem.

I don't qualify for most post-bacc programs (especially in my state Texas), so I decided maybe getting another undergraduate degree would be a better option. So far I have taken a couple of classes at a 4-year public university and got A's in them (Anatomy and Physiology and pre-calculus), so my gpa here is a 4.0. I believe I can keep this trend up now that my mind is in the right place (and healthy) and the classes are easier compared to the private school I graduated from. However, whenever I apply to medical school again would the adcom not care I did well at a lower-tier university and accept it as I can't handle it at a more competitive one? Honestly I am not taking it here because it's easy, but it is cheaper. I am 23, not working, and my parents are supporting me while I find a good job. I am just tired of hating myself and I actually want to see what my true potential is, because I know my scores don't reflect it. I barely studied my last years of college, because I already thought I would fail anyways. When I did muster up the courage to study, I got A's.

*F.yi: I am being real transparent here, because no one knows my scores...not even my family* I feel like I can't handle the shame right now...a lot of them are just happy that I have a degree, but I want more.

 

[bluegrass belle]

@TNDO You are in Texas, which makes advice a bit more complicated. I know TX likes high GPAs. Retaking pre-reqs you did poorly in (D/F), and taking on new upper-level courses is ideal. It shouldn't matter that you're taking them at a public university. Since you have a long way to go with your sGPA, I would start with taking BCPM courses to raise it.

***Please, do yourself a favor (I had to do this myself), go back and find out where you went wrong. Was it time management? Was it a cumulative issue (like not doing well in a basic bio course, so you did poorly in upper-level bio)? You HAVE to address this, or you'll be in a much worse situation, and medical school will just be a distant dream.***

I highly, highly recommend doing a search for "low gpa TX". Many people have been in your shoes. Most of us have spent countless hours looking for people in similar situations. We find out how they were successful. We look at the steps they took on their own (to see what worked and what didn't), we look at the feedback they were given, then we create a plan. There are valuable resources on here - adcoms frequently give suggestions.

Lastly, I suggest putting some distance between you and those MCAT scores. DO NOT retake until you're ready. Have you considered OOS DO schools? They always reward reinvention, and if you kill the MCAT next time, I think you'll be in a good position to gain an acceptance, assuming your grades remain outstanding.

TLDR; You have a chance. Turn things around! Just read a post that said, "Stop focusing on the damage that's been done, non-trads. What's done is done. Kill it from here on out." Do what you can to destroy a DIY post-bacc, the MCAT next time around, and get a decent amount of clinical exposure.

 

[Major]

ACCEPTED!!!!!

 

[Shotapp]

HOLY SHAT!!!! LOL Congrats MAJOR!!!

 

[Major]

HOLY SHAT!!!! LOL Congrats MAJOR!!!

Thank you!!

I actually got the phone call while attending another interview!

I'm still in a state of shock. I'm going to be a DOCTOR!!!

 

[Shotapp]

Wow man. I am so happy for you! I knew your time would eventually come. You have paved the way for the thousands of underdawgs you have inspired. Seriously, you deserve major props man

 

[Major]

Wow man. I am so happy for you! I knew your time would eventually come. You have paved the way for the thousands of underdawgs you have inspired. Seriously, you deserve major props man

Thank you very much for the kind words! That means a lot.

When I have some time to reflect I will write up my story and this journey that I have been on.

For now what I can say is, doing well in a SMP will open doors. Last year I only had 1 interview and an immediate rejection.

This year with the only significant change in my application being performing well in the SMP, I received 4 interviews and 1 acceptance so far.


Hard work, sacrifice, dedication, and perseverance with lots of patience does pay off

 

[Violagirl]

Thank you!!

I actually got the phone call while attending another interview!

I'm still in a state of shock. I'm going to be a DOCTOR!!!

MajorUnderDog, I have followed this thread from when you first created it back in spring of 2013. I graduated college during the fall of 2013 and have found it to be a source of inspiration ever since. I am currently the age that you were from when you created this thread and am still working towards re-taking classes and pursuing various volunteer and shadowing opportunities. I am so happy for you on your acceptance in to medical school and only hope that I am in the same boat as you when I apply in a few years. Congratulations, I have no doubt that you will do great!!!

 

[Major]

MajorUnderDog, I have followed this thread from when you first created it back in spring of 2013. I graduated college during the fall of 2013 and have found it to be a source of inspiration ever since. I am currently the age that you were from when you created this thread and am still working towards re-taking classes and pursuing various volunteer and shadowing opportunities. I am so happy for you on your acceptance in to medical school and only hope that I am in the same boat as you when I apply in a few years. Congratulations, I have no doubt that you will do great!!!

Thank you so much!!

 

[bluegrass belle]

@MajorUnderDog Congrats!!

Please don't forget to keep us updated! This thread has been such an inspiration to those of us still working on GPA repair.

 

[Major]

@MajorUnderDog Congrats!!

Please don't forget to keep us updated! This thread has been such an inspiration to those of us still working on GPA repair.

Thank you!

I definitely will keep things updated, especially once school starts in August.

 

[Ryomagoku]

graduated from 4 yr university back in 2015 with cGPA 2.74 sGPA 2.62

I was retaking classes at a community college hoping that one day I can apply to DO schools, but that no more grade replacement .

Right now, I'm sitting at cGPA 2.91 sGPA 2.76

I plan on going into post bac program (KGI PPC program or PCOM MSBS program). This one doesn't have formal linkage to any med school. But, by its website, it has been very successful with 71% of students in medical school and rest are in either pod, dent, pharm, or pursuing in biotech field.

They provide MCAT course, which is great. I hope I can apply after a year doing post bac which will bring me over 3.0 on both sGPA and cGPA. And, with good MCAT.


I probably would apply following year along with one program in Aus

 

[mavric1298]

ACCEPTED!!!!!

where???? Congrats again!

 

[Eccesignum]

Thank you!

I definitely will keep things updated, especially once school starts in August.