Bench exam ! part 01

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yasi

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After long waiting bench extension has been approved
just want to know how many of you took or will take any course praparaton and if yes which course ucla duggan...
or just practicing yourself
any recommendation....????
 
It seems to me that most of the people who were scheduled for the november exam had previously taken the exam and not passed. All the people that I know so far are all those who had not passed the previous exams and are being given another chance. Is this correct? Is there anyone out there who is a first time applicant and got in for the exam?
 
i received my confirmation card just today. i applied in 2003 but was never given a chance to sit for the bench. i sent fingerprint cards (done in my country) when i submitted my application. the notification from the dbc indicated that my application was complete but i was told that i have to pay the initial application fee of $556.00 and $500.00 for the fingerprint cards and submit the completed livescan form. can anybody please tell if i really have to do livescan fingerprinting even if i passed my fingerprint cards already. if yes, how and where should i go to to have this done? i am in the philippines right now and i have a deadline to beat (october 22).need your help
 
hi kabayan! ia m filipino too. i also applied in 2003 for the first time and never got in until now when i received the application form...the 556 is for the application and fingerprint cards. that's all you need to pay. livescan is for california residents which give an instant result to verify if you have a criminal record, the fingerprint card is the manual way similar to NBI clearance . i too submitted my fingerprint cards togeter with the application why they're asking again i think is only due to the fact that they use a standard reply for everybody. if you sent it no need to send again



vermilion said:
i received my confirmation card just today. i applied in 2003 but was never given a chance to sit for the bench. i sent fingerprint cards (done in my country) when i submitted my application. the notification from the dbc indicated that my application was complete but i was told that i have to pay the initial application fee of $556.00 and $500.00 for the fingerprint cards and submit the completed livescan form. can anybody please tell if i really have to do livescan fingerprinting even if i passed my fingerprint cards already. if yes, how and where should i go to to have this done? i am in the philippines right now and i have a deadline to beat (october 22).need your help
 
mommyr said:
hi kabayan! ia m filipino too. i also applied in 2003 for the first time and never got in until now when i received the application form...the 556 is for the application and fingerprint cards. that's all you need to pay. livescan is for california residents which give an instant result to verify if you have a criminal record, the fingerprint card is the manual way similar to NBI clearance . i too submitted my fingerprint cards togeter with the application why they're asking again i think is only due to the fact that they use a standard reply for everybody. if you sent it no need to send again


thanks mommyr for replying right away. i was so tense when i was told about it by my relative in the u.s. i knew before that the livescan is for ca residents only but i got so confused because of the notification sent by the dbc.i even booked a flight for l.a. tomorrow coz i thought i needed to get the fingerprinting done before friday. thanks again, good luck and god bless!
 
sara25 said:
It seems to me that most of the people who were scheduled for the november exam had previously taken the exam and not passed. All the people that I know so far are all those who had not passed the previous exams and are being given another chance. Is this correct? Is there anyone out there who is a first time applicant and got in for the exam?

I second that! I spoke to someone at duggan and got the same feeling that it was mostly applicants who didnt get through last time.
 
Guys,
Not to put you in a panic state or anything but I also got a confirmation on Friday and when I callled to find out about the fingerprinting I was told that if the cards are more than 6 months old fingerprinting will have to be done again. I am in California so, I just procured a livescan form yesterday from a friend and will re-do my fingerprinting again. Please doublecheck all of you to be sure. It's nerve wracking, the way these guys manipulate us!
 
im a first time applicant and hav recieved nothing yet...we should take legal action as this is ridiculous!
congrats to those who got an invitation and good luck too...hope u ppl make it.
 
i am a very old applicant who was never admitted and i knew i will recieve nothing because that happens to me everytime!
 
It has been a long time since I posted anything on this topic. Even so, I have been thinking about the issue and even working on it in some limited way. And now this year, which began with such promise as the legislation moved to unanimous approval in the Assembly and immediate signature by the Governor, comes to disappointing close. Only one test will have been administered this entire year, and then for only 250 candidates out of a pool of 3,000. I am not happy about the situation and I intend to do something about it.

I have already contacted the Centro Legal de la Raza in the Bay Area and they refered me to two large law firms here in San Francisco. I am writing a synopsis of the current status of the law and the Dental Board of California's (DBC) implementation of the law so that I can better solicit assistance from a law firm and/or members of the State Legislature. I also have begun contacting members of the State Legislature, including outgoing Senator John Burton. I don't know how others percieve the situation, but my own perception is that since the overwhelming majority of foreign trained dentists who qualified to sit for the bench test are members of ethnic minorities, the Dental Board of California's behaviour is nothing short of racism. I hope that whichever law firm provides assistance will perform the task "pro bono", but I have no assurance of that.

The best outcome would be that pressure is brought to bear upon the DBC so that they conduct more tests each of the few remaining years of the life of this law. Right now I would like some feedback on some of my own ideas about what relief we should seek from the DBC. So here is what I think we should push for:

1. No less than 4 tests conducted each of the remaining years of the bench test legislation. Really the goal should enough tests get conducted so that all potential candidates get all of their legislatively mandated chances to pass the exam, and that would number more like 5 or 6 tests per year depending upon the passage rate.

2. An open, fair and transparent candidate selection process for those who will sit for each test. And the candidate selection process should ocurr no less than 90 days prior to each examination so that candidates have adequate time to prepare and practice for the exam. Really I myself would prefer that candidates are choosen 6 months to a year in advance so that each candidate can better plan their future.

3. Raise the cost of the examination fee so that all costs of additional examinations are fully covered by the examination fees. I don't know how some of you feel, but I think that an examination fee of $2,500 or all the way up to $5,000 is acceptable. I know that some of you will disagree. But think for a moment of the faster opportunity to earn a decent living as dentists versus waiting for 2 or more years in some depressing state of not knowing what to do or where your life is headed. I am willing to pay a premium to see a brighter future for my wife and family. Furthermore, the higher the examination fee, the more likely that the DBC will cooperate rather than obstruct. Perhaps a multi-tier fee schedule could be implemented for people taking the exam for a second or third time.

I look forward to the input of any interested party. You can post your opinions here so that we can conduct a healthy public debate. If you prefer to contact me directly, you can e-mail me at [email protected] I look forward to any suggestions that any of you may have.

Scott Clark
 
Hi Scott,

I think your ideas are excellent and I agree 100%. I was to contact my state congreeman and senator but work has taken me out of the country months at a time.

I believe the same alliance that fight for the bill can rise up again to force more examinations. Even 5 times a year still mean up to 2.5 years waiting for the 1st exam 🙁 CDC has all kind of excuses not to run more RT exam, but I bet they dare not do this to the licensure exam.

We need someone to champion the fight, and I bet others are willing to help whatever they can.

tengu
 
shelly78 said:
Guys,
Not to put you in a panic state or anything but I also got a confirmation on Friday and when I callled to find out about the fingerprinting I was told that if the cards are more than 6 months old fingerprinting will have to be done again. I am in California so, I just procured a livescan form yesterday from a friend and will re-do my fingerprinting again. Please doublecheck all of you to be sure. It's nerve wracking, the way these guys manipulate us!

oh no! what shall i do now? i'm so far away, my application fee has been sent and the deadline is fast approaching. i hate the way they are treating us
 
Scott,
I agree with the terms set forth in your letter. Sure a 90 day advance notice would be great and better than having just two weeks at hand, however, it would help us to plan our lives better if we knew when exactly we were going to be given a chance in the next four years.

Secondly, they really need to bring out a time schedule for the exams. As in, decide upon the dates for the next four years and stick to them...or at least for the comign yr.
 
vermilion said:
oh no! what shall i do now? i'm so far away, my application fee has been sent and the deadline is fast approaching. i hate the way they are treating us
Vermillion.
Don't panic. DBC has not mentioned any of these things clearly in writing. So, you are not responsible for not knowing.Call up and tell them about your situation and see what they have to say. From what I hear there are may like you.
 
Hello Scott

I agree to your most of the suggestions.

But I don't think we should suggest them to increase the examination fee upto $2500 or $5000.

We can simply advise DBC to increase the exam fee if it is necessary to conduct 4/5 exams per year. Let DBC come up with the right amount.

I don't think current exam fee of $550 is a bottleneck to the situation. At least it(insufficient fee) was never mentioned as one of the main factor for conducting few exams per year. The main problem is unwillingness and unfair attitude of DBC towards the foreign trained dentists. We should focus on that in our legal battle.

Other than this, I don't have any more suggestions. Everything else looks good.

Sanjiv
 
Hi there, I support the idea to get representation with the board trying to get more exams per year, about the fee, for me looks a little bit high, i would like to say $1,000 for examination sounds enough, if we are 250 takers is gonna be $250,000 for exam, enough for the administration fees, besides, we take the exams in the universities when they do not have anything going, Saturday and Sunday, may be if we ask to evary school give their labs one saturday and sunday per year, is nothing to them, that means more sits. May be I am wrong with this statistics, but may be we can make some mathematics, looks like the UCLA have sit for 150 in both days, UOP have 260, USC 270, UCSF 160. May be we could propose to get to 2 exams per year in those universities with more sits and in the others just one exam. Please what is 2 saturdays or sundays in a whole year. I already talk with friends from San Francisco, NY and Pensilvania, and we colud organize ourself in groups, trying to get a representative in each group, because remember that not everyone is in california and available to get to the meetings and make their call, that way everybody is in the same page.
Scott, is always a pleasure hear from you, I would like to met to you some day and say thank so much in pearson because always you have been worry about all this crazy foreing dentists, keeping us on the loop, with the famous AB 1467 bill, and now with this new iniciative, my wife thanks you as well.
Count on me to make the support.
As well I do not know if everybody is aware with the new changes in the Restorative Technique Exam starting the next year( I assume that they are gonna rule this the next year). In any case here is the data and you can check this out in the DBC web page. This new changes means that we have to practice a lot and very hard to make it at the first time we take this exam, remember how many we are and the time in advance knowing that we gonna take the exam is a lot helpfull with this new changes.
Good luck to everyone taking the bench this November, just let God guides you during the exam. My prayers gonna be with all of you guys, That way we will be 2750 instead 3000 takers the next year.

http://www.dbc.ca.gov/pdf/1041/modified_1041.pdf
 

Attachments

I totally agree with what you wrote.. DBC's not being fair on us..We can push them to give more exam schedules so that at least each of us can utilize the 4 chances to pass it. And posting the examinees ahead of time is a great idea that way we can prepare more. I agree to increasing the fee but maybe not to that extent. We should also have to consider that some of us have families and might be having a difficult time.
 
shelly78 said:
Vermillion.
Don't panic. DBC has not mentioned any of these things clearly in writing. So, you are not responsible for not knowing.Call up and tell them about your situation and see what they have to say. From what I hear there are may like you.

i have tried making several overseas calls to find out about that but i never got to talk to a dbc representative. even my relatives from california have tried calling too but were unsuccessful.

i agree with what most of you are saying about legal representation and your proposals to press the board to conduct more exams per year. i know the predicament of all the applicants coz i went through the same experience before i was finally called. i may have been given the chance to sit for the bench this time but i assure you, you have my support.
 
gooddent said:
Refernce numbers of selected canditaes has been posted on the dbc website.


Thnks gooddent for the info, I'm not in though!but certainly feel a little relieved that I don't have to keeping checking my mail endlessly (anticipating a postal delay) . What abt u r u in?

Wish they had done this long back..and I see only 221 numbers , I thought they would have atleast 250 candidates!

Dentisthusband, deifinitely stand by u......what is to be done next?

sum
 
According to the DBC the next RT exam will be in March or April2005. They will be accepting new applications no later than December 31st 2004.
Check their website.
 
Scott, Sanjiv :
Good posts. I guess no one would disagree to make some efforts to get fair deal from DBC.
How should we progress on it ?
I guess there are around 2500 students waiting for bench exam. Atlleast 500 will be willing to help in some or the other way.
I have no objection in Scott being our representative.
What do you think guys ?
 
Looking at the reference number of those admitted to Nov RT exam, it is heavily tilted to those with reference number starting with "1". Seems like CDB wants to clear up old log first.

Since the proposed next exam is in March/April, it does not seem CDB is planning to have more exams a year. There is no reason to have such a long delay between exams. CDB is happy with status quo.

How hard is it to have more RT exams a year? Really not that hard!! Basically to open the lab and have some examiners. It takes no more than 10 mins to grade one examinee. If I remember correctly there are 6 licensing exams a year with MUCH fewer applicants. Now THAT is DISCRIMINATION!!

We need to act FAST. Kick CDB hard and kict it often. Otherwise 2005 will be another frustrating year.

We need to file a class action lawsuit to force CDB hand.

- tengu
 
I was a long time reader of the board, but decided to join now, especially to support Scott (dentisthusband) in his endeavours.

I too wish that we see a series of exams held in 2005, so that we all have a chance in near future to appear for the exam and move on with our lives. Let me know if I could be of any help in whatever manner...
 
i definately am in on going legally to get our rights. please let us know however we can help u!
 
OK, thanks for the input everyone. Although I should say to Explorer2010 that I am not looking to get elected to some sort of public office. I must admit that I am firstly motivated out of self-interest for my wife and family, and secondly out of a sense of justice for all of you. I wish I could say that my motivations were in the opposite order but then I would be less than truthful. But whatever my motivation, the Boy Scout that I was in my youth makes me want to help you all succeed in this exam.

Lets look at the issues again:

1. Fee Structure - I was afraid that more people would object to raising the exam fee. I know that for some a higher fee will be a hardship. However, if we do not make a proposal to increase the fees for the exam we can be absolutely assured that no more than 2 exams will be conducted per year. The DBC hasn't hired any new staff since the passage of the RT Exam legislation and that is part of the reason that the exam process has been so incompetently prosecuted to date. Furthermore, although it may seem unbelievable, the DBC has relied upon volunteer test examiners so far. Increased fees are necessary to pay for dedicated staff to handle the examinations throughout the year, not just on the day of the exam. And I would like to see the increased exam fee pay for competent professional examiners who recieve fair compensation for their time as examiners. It only seems logical that someone who is paid for his/her time would provide more thorough and conscientious examination grading. So unless I get a lot of responses suggesting something else, I propose that we agree to increase the exam fee to $1,000 per examination.

2. Candidate Selection - I don't know how all of the rest of you feel, but I want to know how the candidates for the next exam were choosen. How do we know that some sort of illegal influence was not involved in the selection process? Were bribes paid to staff at the DBC? We don't know anything about the selection criteria at this time. Most fundamentally, we don't know if the selection process was fair to the entire pool of candidates. What do you all think would be a fair, open and transparent selection process? Should there be a random lottery selection process of the entire candidate pool? Should there be a segregation of the entire candidate pool into sub-groups of first time examinees, second time examinees and so on, with each sub-group getting an allocation of a certain percentage of the available seats at each examination? The most egalitarian method would probably be to have a random lottery for each examination of the entire candidate pool. I don't really have a strong opinion about what would be best in this regard. However, I do feel quite strongly that the random selection ought to be open to public scrutiny so that all of us feel that we were all given a fair shot at the available exam seats, without any favoritism or bias whatsoever.

3. Examination Record Keeping - I have a friend who took the exam last year and recieved a score of 74! Imagine her disappointment. She of course wanted to challenge the grading of her test result and I would have too if I had been in her position. But she was told that the DBC did not keep the typodont, but rather discarded them. Further compounding my friend's sense of unfair treatment was the fact that the grading notes that were prepared by her examiner were so poorly written (bad penmanship) that she couldn't even decipher how the examiner graded her typodont. By the way, my friend is now in an IDS program at a California dental school and she is one of the smartest and hardest working people I have ever met. If she could be considered to have failed the bench test by one single point, then many of you should be concerned about how you will be treated when you finally do get a chance to take the test. Therefore, I suggest that we demand that the typodonts be maintained at the DBC for a period not less than 90 days after each bench exam and that a fair greivance procedure be initiated for candidates who want to challenge their test result. Obviously, an increased exam fee would be necessary in order to achieve this goal.

If there are other issues that any of you can think of please post them here or write to me directly. I want to say that I don't think that we will win this battle by going to war with the DBC. I think we need to seek the help of the legislators who voted for this law. The solutions and improvements to the RT Exam that we seek will best be won through negotiation and compromise. I'm hoping that as we prepare our position paper and further develop our ideas of what constitutes a good, fair and just RT Exam; we will find many allies who will help us in our goal.

Scott Clark
 
Dentisthusband said:
Fee Structure ...I propose that we agree to increase the exam fee to $1,000 per examination.
I am with you on this one. In negotiation there must be give and take. CDB must feel they get something in return for the extra effort. I believe $1,000 per exam is not good enough. The amount is really peanuts compare to lost opportunities.

I want to say that I don't think that we will win this battle by going to war with the DBC.

I have to disagree. Nothing like the threat of a discrimination lawsuit to move CDB ass. Of course we have to play the good cop bad cop game and willing to back off if CDB is willing to sit down at the negotiation table. Rely SOLELY on the legistators will not suffice.

- tengu
 
To increase the no. of exams per year we r ready to pay more.i know that would be way less than the fee that we would be paying for idp programes.
 
1. As Scott said we should have our case study done on the paper, to assist legislators and also for the legal battle.

Legislators have already approved the bill to extend the exam date till 2008. Now it is upto the DBC to come up with the working model, which will give ALL candidates 4 attempts to pass the exam before 2008.
To accomplish this, obviously DBC has to increase the examiners and number of exams per year.

Lawsuit will force DBC to implement the above working model.

Candidate selection process should be fair to all candidates and open to the public.
I am in favor of having fixed percentage of seats allocated to first time (40% seats), second time (20% seats), third time (20% seats) and fourth time (20% seats) applicants. This gives fair chance to first time applicants and also to all the repeaters.


2. Don?t we want ALL states to open up for the foreign trained dentists? Most of the states do not even have a Legal provision to force Dental Universities in those states to have IDP program for foreign trained dentists OR make universities to have 30/40 seats allocated to the foreign trained dentists towards their DDS program.

There are only few dental universities (in few states) which have the IDP program.
What about rest of the states, which do not have IDP program? What are foreign trained dentists from those remaining states supposed to do?

Minnesota recently opened its doors for foreign trained dentists. The Legislators did it over there.
Can this be repeated in another states?
Can we sue those remaining states to have a Legal provision to create a way for foreign trained dentists to get their dental license/DDS degree?

This will prevent the (mad) rush to just one state(California) or to only few dental universities .

Sanjiv
 
Hi,
1.I also suggest that we should force the DBC to make a decision about the PROSPOSED exam modifications. How are we going to know when we should take the review course if we don't know if there would be any modifications to the exam or not? Or when these modifications are going to be implemented ?Or if we r going to be scheduled for the old exam or the modified exam?

Why does the DBC have to be so hard on us? Why do they want to confuse us in every step of the way? 🙁

2. I think we should figure out how many of us (3000 applicants) are new applicants, 2nd time, 3rd time ,or 4th time applicants before we decide the ratio of applicants that r accepted from each group. I think this would help us decide if the DBC applicant selection is fair or biased. Maybe we can have a vote on this forum that can devide us into 4 different groups or something.IF we do that we would know how many of us are eligible to take the exam only 1,2,3,4 times.

I believe that if we can organize ourselves , we can better fight the DBC.

Thank you.
 
why there should be modifications if the sunset of the legislation is dec2008?
why only those poor cadidates who were not lucky to be selected have to pay this price while many weak candidates only 3 years ago had the chance to repeat the exam 4 times without any fear from changes or limitations, and this is not the only factor.
the other most important factor in our success is the stress that we carry with us to the exam, knowing the limitations of opportunities for other exams and with our shaking hands we try to prepare the 0.4mm proximal amalgum clearance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
handpiece

does anybody know what specific type of handpiece is being used in usc? i neeed to know ahead of time if i have to buy a new one coz i have the 4-hole type
 
shelly78 said:
Guys,
Not to put you in a panic state or anything but I also got a confirmation on Friday and when I callled to find out about the fingerprinting I was told that if the cards are more than 6 months old fingerprinting will have to be done again. I am in California so, I just procured a livescan form yesterday from a friend and will re-do my fingerprinting again. Please doublecheck all of you to be sure. It's nerve wracking, the way these guys manipulate us!

hey ..good luck to u .. im happy u got in after so long coz we applied together a long long time ago .. i havent received any confirmation yet, but im not pissed coz i got a chance and didnt make it so i was prepared to wait for a long long time ..haha

but good luck and let me know how u did
 
Hi Scott, Sanjiv and all,
Do you people think it is a good Idea for us in bay area to meet somewhere and make concrete plan of action. I am thinking of it as many people are from bay area and around.
We can post our plan on this site so that every one can review it and we can start some action.
 
I also agree with scott(dentihusband )says,

DBC should increase exam frequency in 2005 . and it is fare upto $1000fees if they are ready to take more exams per year.
so if i can help in this in anyway let us know.
 
I totally agree about raising the exam fees, if that is the sole reason for them not to schedule more exams. This time we don't want to give DBC any excuse that delays our future. 🙂
 
Hi guys, I just noticed that the board is gonna hold a meeting the next 4-5th of November and they are gonna talk to include the modification about the regulation 1041 from their laws and regulations, and concerns about the new structure for the Bench starting next year may be...here are the files. What we could do ....Scott, any advise ?

http://www.dbc.ca.gov/pdf/nov_04_agenda.pdf
 

Attachments

I was trying to attach this but won't let me do it because is to large the file, it is powerpoint, and have about 170 slides,if you wanna it send me your email and I'll send you asap. Good luck everyone, and let's push through the same road...
 
please sent also to me this email whit the slides for the typodond equilibration my email is : [email protected] ...thanks a lot Vickdent

And Scott a totaly agree whit you .....to increse the fees and to do a legal action to fight our rights ...and is good idea to make a meeting in the bay area ...
we can do in the san francisco city college i can make some work in get the classroom for us.

just make the schedule... can be any friday late or a Saturday morning.
 
I think it would be great if we could have a meeting somewhere in the Bay Area to discuss our strategy. I am available whenever we can agree on a time and place. If we can meet early next week that would be great. I will try to have a draft of grievance and proposed remedies completed by Monday next week.

I checked the agenda for the Dental Board meeting next week. It appears to me that the relevant meeting for RT Exam candidates occurs at @ 2:00 on Thursday at the Examination Committee meeting. Agenda Item 14.2 is the proposed examination schedule for 2005. There will be a public comment period during this meeting and it would be a good opportunity to let the Board members know that they can expect a fight. I will attend the meeting and make a statement during this session.

I cannot attend the Friday portion of the meeting and it appears that the proposed changes to the RT Exam will be discussed on Friday under Agenda Item 7. I hope someone else can attend that session and offer objections to the proposed changes.

Scott
 
Scott, we should do something about the dates for the RTExam because I think they are gonna Approve the Examination Dates for 2005 the 4th of Nov. at 2 pm. Agend item 14.2; I do not know if they are able to talk/discuss about this with us or our representative, may be is the moment to talk about the raise with them, but I think this have to be talked before the meeting, taht way we are ahead....Any suggerstions?....
 
Let's pick a time and place. We will see who can make it.

I suggest this Sunday 3 pm. I would have suggested my house if not for my baby son and potential heavy traffic. Anyone has access to a meeting room, something like the basement of a church?

- tengu
 
I live in San Francisco near the Golden Gate Bridge. Tomorrow I will see if I can get space somewhere. I suggest that we make the meeting time earlier since Sunday is Halloween, say noon or shortly thereafter. If I cannot find another location, and since the forecast is for good weather, I suggest we meet near the Warming Hut on the beach just east of the Golden Gate Bridge. There is a sort of landscaped concrete amphitheater where we can sit together and discuss the issues. I will check the route to the location and post the directions tomorrow morning.

Scott
 
I' ready for the meeting ...I see you there...just please post the address and the time.
Thanks Scott.




Dentisthusband said:
I live in San Francisco near the Golden Gate Bridge. Tomorrow I will see if I can get space somewhere. I suggest that we make the meeting time earlier since Sunday is Halloween, say noon or shortly thereafter. If I cannot find another location, and since the forecast is for good weather, I suggest we meet near the Warming Hut on the beach just east of the Golden Gate Bridge. There is a sort of landscaped concrete amphitheater where we can sit together and discuss the issues. I will check the route to the location and post the directions tomorrow morning.

Scott
 
I don't know how many people want to get together to discuss strategy tomorrow. The weather doesn't look as promising today as it did yesterday. If there aren't very many people then we could meet at my place. In order to get some idea of how many are willing and able to come, please give me a call on my cell phone. The number is 415 722 4907.

Scott Clark
 
I've only had two confirmations so far for tomorrow. So I guess we will be meeting at my apartment. Since it is Halloween, I would like to meet at 10:30am. If you plan to attend then please give me a call any time today. Thanks

Scott
 
I just saw your message. I will come tomarrow. I will call you in the morning.
meanwhile if you see this could you post what time you are planning to meet.
 
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