Bench exam ! part 01

[yasi]

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Members don't see this ad.

After long waiting bench extension has been approved
just want to know how many of you took or will take any course praparaton and if yes which course ucla duggan...
or just practicing yourself
any recommendation....????

 

[Dentisthusband]

10:30AM if the others get here at that time. If you arrive later, then that is OK too.

Scott

 

[Vickdent]

Hi scott,sumitysharma, and everyone going to the meeting, I would like to ask you if you could keep me on the loop about the conclussion and steps to take in advance, I can not make it to the meeting because I am out of California, but count on me for any kind of support. I will apreciate keep on the loop. Thanks a lot. The best for everyone behind dreams...

 

[tengu3]

I have set up a poll asking how much you will like to pay for the RT in order to speed up the schedule. Please vote so we have an idea how to negotiate with CDB.

- tengu

 

[tengu3]

California Dental Board will meet in Sacramento this Thursday and Friday. The agenda Thursday 2 pm regards the RT exam. Status quo means 2 - 3 exams/year with 250 candidates each. I hope as many as possible will show up at the meeting to request a change. Dentisthusband and William (and several others) will be there. I will try to make the trip myself too. Hope to see you there.

- tengu

 

[sumitysharma]

I have set up a poll asking how much you will like to pay for the RT in order to speed up the schedule. Please vote so we have an idea how to negotiate with CDB.

- tengu

what is the link of survey. could you put it in this thread.

 

[coolpoppy]

I have some new unused bench exam instruments for sale. I bought them with the intention of taking the exam, but doesn't look like I will. PM me if interested.

 

[tengu3]

the link to the poll is

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=158996

 

[sonia vashist]

hi scott,
i wanted to attend the meeting on sunday,but couldnt make it,since i was out of town.next time there is a meeting,i will definetly try to make it. any ways i wanted you to know that i fully agree with you.
sonia


i am interested in going to sacramento on thrusday and friday,so if any one is going via bart or if any one is driving from dublin,pleasanton area,please let me know so we can go together.
thanks
sonia

 

[lanande]

. So here is what I think we should push for:

1. No less than 4 tests conducted each of the remaining years of the bench test legislation. Really the goal should enough tests get conducted so that all potential candidates get all of their legislatively mandated chances to pass the exam, and that would number more like 5 or 6 tests per year depending upon the passage rate.

2. An open, fair and transparent candidate selection process for those who will sit for each test. And the candidate selection process should ocurr no less than 90 days prior to each examination so that candidates have adequate time to prepare and practice for the exam. Really I myself would prefer that candidates are choosen 6 months to a year in advance so that each candidate can better plan their future.

3. Raise the cost of the examination fee so that all costs of additional examinations are fully covered by the examination fees. .Scott Clark

Scott,

Thank you for your excellent work.
I wish I could join you guys and attend the meeting, but I am too far away.
Anyway, it is good for us having you on our behalf.

My suggestion is we should focus on details as well:
1. not less than 90 days advance notice.
2. for the first exam in 2005, priorities should be given to the candidates who submitted an application for the November 13-14, 2004, examination but were not scheduled, and post the numbers in the early January, 2005, or 90 days before the exam.
3. make schedule for every candidate who has submitted an application already and inform when is his/her turn. They must do this as soon as the exam dates are set for the next whole year (2005,2006,...), or even better, a 4 yrs schedule, not wait until one month or two weeks before the exam. We can not stand them to put us into miserable uncertainty for another year, or 4yrs!

Once we get our chance ( probably the only chance), we must be prepared!

 

[shaya]

sorry to ask a question not related here...but i figured u hav all taken some courses so u would know....wht is a 3/4 onlay? and what r the rules to prepare a class 3 prep.?
please answer if u know.

 

[DDM]

sorry to ask a question not related here...but i figured u hav all taken some courses so u would know....wht is a 3/4 onlay? and what r the rules to prepare a class 3 prep.?
please answer if u know.

3/4 Onlay = Make your standard onlay then make a lingual and proximal reduction with a chamfer.

Cl 3 = follow specifications for Cl 3 composite for clinical exam or do an inlay prep if called for.

DDM

 

[shaya]

thanks a lot for the reply it really helps...but could you elaborate on the specifications for a class 3....i will be really grateful.

thank u!

 

[dhaval]

I am glad you are going to the meeting tomorrow, I hope you get this email. I have wanted to emphasize with the board that there are two main issues now - don't worry about the number of exams yet, next year's budget is set. The only two issues you should bring up for the meeting are that they MUST let people know who is going to be in the first exam next year as soon as possible. You should insist that it is by mid January, since the application deadline is Dec 31. Second, the exam MUST be late April, as it was for many years. These two things are the only thing that will allow enough time for people to prepare. The Nov exam next week will have a high failure rate due to the last minute notice!

I am replying to you on one of my employee's accounts from my office - he told me about this forum. I have hundreds of foreign graduates that I work with for this exam and am very concerned, but also know a little about what the limitations of the DBC are.

I think it would be great if we could have a meeting somewhere in the Bay Area to discuss our strategy. I am available whenever we can agree on a time and place. If we can meet early next week that would be great. I will try to have a draft of grievance and proposed remedies completed by Monday next week.

I checked the agenda for the Dental Board meeting next week. It appears to me that the relevant meeting for RT Exam candidates occurs at @ 2:00 on Thursday at the Examination Committee meeting. Agenda Item 14.2 is the proposed examination schedule for 2005. There will be a public comment period during this meeting and it would be a good opportunity to let the Board members know that they can expect a fight. I will attend the meeting and make a statement during this session.

I cannot attend the Friday portion of the meeting and it appears that the proposed changes to the RT Exam will be discussed on Friday under Agenda Item 7. I hope someone else can attend that session and offer objections to the proposed changes.

Scott

 

[dentobabe]

as far as I remember,`dhaval` was working for Dr Duggan. so does this mean that the previous message was from Dr Duggan?? if so, i think dentisthusband and all the others fighting for this good cause should really consider his advice seriously.good luck to u all n kudos 👍 for all the work that you all are doing!!!

 

[Dentisthusband]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry that I didn't post right after the meeting but I was tired and a little angry as well. So now that I'm a little more calm I'll tell you what went on.

First of all let me remind you that I only attended the Licensing Committee meeting. The full meeting in Sacramento lasted 2 full days, but it appeared to me that the only part that affected us was the Licensing Committee session. The bad news is that the first item on the agenda was the finalization of the 2005 exam dates. As of right now the Restorative Technique Exam is scheduled only two times next year, one test April 15 - 17 at UOP and the other October 21 - 23 at USC. The California Clinical Exam on the other hand has been scheduled on 6 separate dates next year. That sure doesn't seem fair to me and I made that sense of inequity clear to the members of the Committee.

At the very end of the meeting I was given an opportunity to speak to the full Committee. I must say that I had thought of presenting a combative attitude to the members of the Dental Board, especially since they had already settled on the exam schedule without any public input. However, I was niether combative nor stident in my comments. I presented all of the desires of the candidate pool as I understand them. In short my points were as follows:

1. Provide 1,250 to 1,500 examination slots for each of the remaining years of the life of the RT legislation.

2. Conduct open, fair and transparent candidate selection for whatever exam slots are available. In addition I requested that the selction for candidates be posted no less than 90 days prior to the examination. In fact I requested that the selection for all of the exam slots for the upcoming year be psoted on the Dental Board website within the next month.

3. Raise the fee for the exam to whatever level is required to ensure that the number of exam slots per year is 1,250 to 1,500.

Those were my comments in summary. I had more than a half hour to speak and both the members of the Dental Board as well as the Executve Director of the California Dental Association. Some of their comments really made me angry and some of their comments gave me a great deal of hope. The one fact that the members of the Board made very clear was that the fees for the exam go into the General Fund of the State of California and do not necessarily stay with the Dental Board. The Legislature set the budget for the Dental Board a long time ago and the Dental Board cannot change the RT Exam schedule unless they get a supplemental appropriation from the Legislature. So the task before us is to convince the Legislature to increase the budget for the Dental Board through increased exam fees. I need to take Isabella to see "The Incredibles" now so I'm looking forward to reading comments from all of you later today.

Scott

 

[yasi]

does any bodyy know whether wax up has been replaced by clIII composite filling for next rt exams or not?in 2005

 

[Vickdent]

Thanks for the update about the meeting, I have a question for you, there is no way to push the legislative to increase the number of exams of RT for the next year, those two dates that you've posted are definitives for the next year?

Please, anyone knows about if they adopted the modification 1041 for the RT Exam, voiding wax up & laboratory, and adding composite III & IV prep and filling, as well anybody knows if the next exams starting the next year, are going to be with the new Typodont (Kilgore) mounted in a Maniquin or gonna still on hands.

I will try to find this out, but if anybody have any info about the modifications will be great help, because preps in a maniquin would required a little bit more of practice and focus than the old style.

 

[Dentisthusband]

Hi Vickdent and Yasi,

I got the impression that starting with the April RT exam next year, the wax up will be deleted and replaced with the Composite requirements. I recall that some of you were agitated about the change in exam format but it appears that there is nothing anyone can do about it. Dr. SooHoo was the driving force on the Board behind the change in RT exam format. He feels that the exam will be easier and more representative of real world dentistry with the composite requirement as opposed to a lab requirement. So I guess Duggan and UCLA will add that component to their courses. There is no point complaining about the change in test format because it is a done deal.

I do think that there is something we can do regarding the Legislature. I will post something by Wednesday after I do some research.

Scott

 

[tengu3]

Thanks Scott for attending the meeting. I wish I were there to give them an earful.

What are they thinking to hold only two exams next year (and possibly the same until 2008 if we don't do anything)!!? 😡

"The Legislature set the budget for the Dental Board a long time ago and the Dental Board cannot change the RT Exam schedule unless they get a supplemental appropriation from the Legislature."

If I get this correctly a lump sum is given to CDB every year yet they decided to have 6 licensure exams but two RT exams next year, despite having <500 and > 3000 examinees respectively.

Did they say anything on how to give at least 2 chances to every 3000 candidates before the end of 2008? Can Scott tell us the positive comments he heard from some of the CDB members so that we can work with them?

One thing we can do is to sue base on "equal opportunity." The same thing happened to varsity women sports. They sued to get equal opportunity as the men sports even though the men basketball and football bring in the revenues. What it will do is to drag the licensure exam down the RT mess given the fixed budget. Of course CDB can't do it and so the only alternative is for them to fight for larger budget from the legislature.

I have zero confidence that CDB will do the right thing by themselves. I believe we need a combinations of pleading, coersion, threat of a lawsuit and pressure from the legislature to get what we want.

How do we get the ball rolling? Personally I will write to Arnold and the representatives from my district.

- tengu

 

[tengu3]

I agree with Scott not to fight with CDB regarding the RT format changes. CDB and us already have our hands full.

- tengu

 

[sumitysharma]

I think we have to follow our struggle on following 2 lines
1. force CDB to treat RT exam and license exam at par. 2 Vs 6 attempt is not equility and it is a discrimination.
2. Lobby with legislature to CDB get the fee of RT exam so that they can handle the extra exams.

May be others can also bring in their Ideas. and make a comman plan for action. I would like to go with Scott's and tengu3

 

[adds143]

Thanks scott for attending the meeting and giving us information.

But this is really not good news that only two exams per year,
we really need to do something .
And did they announced that format for next year is confirmed that they are going to remove wax pattern and adding composite cl 3 ,5.

And are they going to announce 90 days prior to next exam or not?
so what u think we all really need to do?
let us know about u r idea. ok

 

[Dentisthusband]

I have been thinking of one potential solution that circumvents the need to go to the California Legislature seeking a revised budget for the Dental Board. Right now, only UOP and USC have made their facilities available for the RT Exam next year. At the Board meeting last week an Orthodontics Professor from UCSF spoke to me after the meeting. He was sympathetic to our point of view regarding the number of exams. Most importantly, he suggested that money would make a big difference in the attitude of the other schools regarding hosting an RT exam. So how about if I contact UCSF, UCLA and Loma Linda and suggest that each of them host an RT exam, and in consideration of hosting the exam each of the dental schools would charge a facility use fee directly from each exam candidate? Lets say that each dental school charged a fee of $250 from each exam candidate and the exam candidate paid that fee directly to the dental school. In turn the hosting dental school would make their facility available for the exam and provide competent dentists who would serve as exam judges to grade the typodonts. I think that the dental schools would jump at the chance to earn $62,500 in one weekend. But most importantly this scheme would avoid the need to deal through the Legislature with budgets and appropriations. And it would also be only a small increase in cost for the exam candidates. Best of all, the Dental Board of California would have no excuse for not cooperating with such a plan.

Please let me know what you all think of this idea before I plow ahead with it.

Scott

 

[futurdentist]

I think this is a great idea that will secure us a place to conduct the exam.

However i'm not sure that the DBC will ever run out of excuses !!

Don't you think we have to give them a motive to try to be fair to us?
For months and months they have been doing their best to stand in our way.There has to be some way to convince them that they would actually gain if they have more RT exams and lose if they don't.

 

[sumitysharma]

Scott,
I like your Idea. Let us know what we need to do for it.

 

[lanande]

Strongly support!

 

[tengu3]

Hi scott,

Great suggestion, please proceed.

There may be legal problems asking candidates for a surcharge if it is not authorized by CDB, and it may be difficult to bypass the california general fund. However any solution is far better than no solution and this is definitely worth trying.

This is some interesting solution to break the logjam. Instead of waiting CDB to move their dinosaur behind, we provide them an viable alternative and execute for them.

$250 may not be attractive enough. Since 95% support raising fee from $500 to $1000, that means we can offer the school $500 (75% support $1500 which means $1000 to spare, and 60% support "the sky the limit within reasons"). We need to make the offer VERY attractive so that even if the schools are not sympathetic to our cause (and I doubt they are save some individuals, as we are their competitors that drive down salary), they will be receptive to the idea. $62.5k BEFORE expenses aren't that attractive. It is a drop in their annual budget bucket.

- tengu

 

[sonia vashist]

👍
scott this is to let you know that i support your idea,and am willing to pay any amount needed, just let us know how we can be of any help.thank you for attending the board meeting,i wanted to come,but cudnt make it,but if you do plan to have any more meetings with us student members,count me in.

 

[neco1903]

[Right now, only UOP and USC have made their facilities available for the RT Exam next year.]
How about forcing these two schools hosting the exam at the same time?If these two schools open their facilities for the exams both in April and in october it would melt down around 1000 candidates.

 

[Vickdent]

I am agree with the idea getting a fee for the university for the exam, but before that we have to know for sure how many sits have each school, I don't think they have the same amount of sits that USC and UOP have, and we have as well to think how this propose is gonna look for those schools (USC & UOP) that are hosting the bench exams already without any examination fee. Besides this points I think that the idea have a great chance to work. I support it.

 

[Sanjiv]

Scott

It's a great idea. Even though universities might agree to open up their facilities for $62K/week, I hope DBC will agree to it.

If this idea really works, it will give a new hope to all these huge 3000+ candidates waiting for the RT exam.

Let's give it a shot.

Sanjiv

 

[ivorinedust]

In the midst of all this discussion, I just like to wish everybody taking the RT exam this weekend the best of luck! Special wishes go to mommyr, a colleague from the Philippines. Show them what you got, guys! I hope you all pass.

Ivorinedust

"Apolonia, relieve my toothache"

 

[yasi]

good luck mommyr
on your exam

 

[Hydrogen]

Anybody knows if the next exams starting the next year, are going to be with the new Typodont (Kilgore) mounted in a Maniquin or gonna still on hands?
By other hand. good luck to everyone on your exam!!!!

 

[oletyrags]

I have been thinking of one potential solution that circumvents the need to go to the California Legislature seeking a revised budget for the Dental Board. Right now, only UOP and USC have made their facilities available for the RT Exam next year. At the Board meeting last week an Orthodontics Professor from UCSF spoke to me after the meeting. He was sympathetic to our point of view regarding the number of exams. Most importantly, he suggested that money would make a big difference in the attitude of the other schools regarding hosting an RT exam. So how about if I contact UCSF, UCLA and Loma Linda and suggest that each of them host an RT exam, and in consideration of hosting the exam each of the dental schools would charge a facility use fee directly from each exam candidate? Lets say that each dental school charged a fee of $250 from each exam candidate and the exam candidate paid that fee directly to the dental school. In turn the hosting dental school would make their facility available for the exam and provide competent dentists who would serve as exam judges to grade the typodonts. I think that the dental schools would jump at the chance to earn $62,500 in one weekend. But most importantly this scheme would avoid the need to deal through the Legislature with budgets and appropriations. And it would also be only a small increase in cost for the exam candidates. Best of all, the Dental Board of California would have no excuse for not cooperating with such a plan.

Please let me know what you all think of this idea before I plow ahead with it.

Scott

Hi Scott
I support your idea. Also, Someone here had suggested that we hire a lawyer to represent us. I think it is a good idea and we should do that. I suggest that we need to get people contribute money to hire a lawyer. I know not many will be willng to pay for this but we could atleast give it a try.
raghavendra

 

[sumitysharma]

Anybody knows if the next exams starting the next year, are going to be with the new Typodont (Kilgore) mounted in a Maniquin or gonna still on hands?
By other hand. good luck to everyone on your exam!!!!

i think u r right that from next time the examination would be quite different from this time.b/c today i read on the dbc site. just check on the linkhttp://dbc.ca.gov/pdf/1041/modified_1041.pdf.

 

[bhavi]

hi all and little unhappy to hear for new arrival of RT..what the best for real world of dentistry is not important here..just to pass these awaited RT..this is really new break of board to break our hand on that..anyway when duggan is going to start for new course ..and i really support Scott's idea..what should we all do Scott?

i hope all 250 RT candidates success
bahvi

 

[sadanand]

hi sumitysharma,
i tried to look for the info (change in exam format for next RT) on dbc website could not find it. on which link did u click ??

also whats the procedure to withdraw my application for the next exam ??? i mean i want to apply for oct exam only.

 

[mommyr]

sorry I have been out of touch the past 3 weeks. i got back home yesterday and I am exhausted . i was on a sunday batch and they asked us to do a 3 3/4, 19 DO and 6 PFM. It was difficult to carve the distal cusp of the 19 DO and only a few people knew the proper design for that class 2. I practised it only twice bec. a friend saw it on a textbook. I am nervous though bec. while doing the mesial groove on my 3/4 my 170L slipped to the gingival floor. I tried to hide it the best I could but I think that's a major error. I submitted my wax pattern 1 min. before deadline and had no time to make sure that it doesn't break. I don't think I did well so I am a bit down. I spent USD8000 preparing. I lived with Dr. Thaw for 2 weeks and did Duggan's mock boards in between. I passed his last mock board but the real test is the actual bench.

I'll post later again as I have to go back to work. I am on my lunchbreak.

By the way I applied at UOP and got rejected.

 

[sumitysharma]

hi sumitysharma,
i tried to look for the info (change in exam format for next RT) on dbc website could not find it. on which link did u click ??

also whats the procedure to withdraw my application for the next exam ??? i mean i want to apply for oct exam only.

hi sadanand
you just go to dbc site and check on laws and regulation section and in that click on Modified Text for Section 1041, Title 16, CCR (*pdf).iam not sure if these changes r final or not.and if u want to apply for october exam only u better call dbc and check it out.

 

[gpsbhattal]

Hi, i agree with ur ideas.
i think we should approach in both ways together-
1) should talk to DCB and Dental schools about raising the fee and conducting more n more exams every year.
2) should start proceeding legally by hiring a good lawyer.
We should give DCB only these two choices, and then it`s upto them which one they wanna choose.
anyways let me know in what way i can become a part of our struggle. thanks. 🙂

Thanks Scott for attending the meeting. I wish I were there to give them an earful.

What are they thinking to hold only two exams next year (and possibly the same until 2008 if we don't do anything)!!? 😡

"The Legislature set the budget for the Dental Board a long time ago and the Dental Board cannot change the RT Exam schedule unless they get a supplemental appropriation from the Legislature."

If I get this correctly a lump sum is given to CDB every year yet they decided to have 6 licensure exams but two RT exams next year, despite having <500 and > 3000 examinees respectively.

Did they say anything on how to give at least 2 chances to every 3000 candidates before the end of 2008? Can Scott tell us the positive comments he heard from some of the CDB members so that we can work with them?

One thing we can do is to sue base on "equal opportunity." The same thing happened to varsity women sports. They sued to get equal opportunity as the men sports even though the men basketball and football bring in the revenues. What it will do is to drag the licensure exam down the RT mess given the fixed budget. Of course CDB can't do it and so the only alternative is for them to fight for larger budget from the legislature.

I have zero confidence that CDB will do the right thing by themselves. I believe we need a combinations of pleading, coersion, threat of a lawsuit and pressure from the legislature to get what we want.

How do we get the ball rolling? Personally I will write to Arnold and the representatives from my district.

- tengu

 

[chiopea]

Thank you for sharing your bench exam experience with us! It seems that people who took the exam on sunday got the most difficult assigment???
That make me realize that all the practice of the world is never enough 😱
I wish you the best.

Chio

sorry I have been out of touch the past 3 weeks. i got back home yesterday and I am exhausted . i was on a sunday batch and they asked us to do a 3 3/4, 19 DO and 6 PFM. It was difficult to carve the distal cusp of the 19 DO and only a few people knew the proper design for that class 2. I practised it only twice bec. a friend saw it on a textbook. I am nervous though bec. while doing the mesial groove on my 3/4 my 170L slipped to the gingival floor. I tried to hide it the best I could but I think that's a major error. I submitted my wax pattern 1 min. before deadline and had no time to make sure that it doesn't break. I don't think I did well so I am a bit down. I spent USD8000 preparing. I lived with Dr. Thaw for 2 weeks and did Duggan's mock boards in between. I passed his last mock board but the real test is the actual bench.

I'll post later again as I have to go back to work. I am on my lunchbreak.

By the way I applied at UOP and got rejected.

 

[BENCHSTUDENT]

Could you tell me how was the correct preparation for the 19 DO, please I am afraid about this preparation, thank you

 

[lanande]

Welcome home! 🙂

I am wondering if you still carry that special folder for RT application? I want to buy two from you.

I live in Toronto, I can come to pick it up.

Thank you.


Lanande

 

[mommyr]

i have tons of those folders. i live in mississauga and go to church every sunday in toronto at yonge and lawrence. call me and let me know when you want to come and get it as i work mon to fri in oakville.

Welcome home! 🙂

I am wondering if you still carry that special folder for RT application? I want to buy two from you.

I live in Toronto, I can come to pick it up.

Thank you.


Lanande

 

[tengu3]

Every minute of inaction means another minute wasted. We have to put words into action to get more RT exam openings/year.

The coalition that fought for the RT exam extension may have a different agenda from us. The HMOs are happy with 300+ new foreign dentists every year to keep a steady supply of "cheap" labors.

- tengu

 

[mommyr]

Hi Lalande,

It was nice meeting you personally last Sunday, another SDNer in person, we were both so funny we met for the first time but it's like we've known each other all our lives only bec. we could relate with the agony and frustration of our experiences... I agree Tengu, we ought to do something but what? What's the follow up report on approaching other schools to conduct more exams? Who's responsible anyway and what can we do right now to help?

Another day working as a dental assistant has passed and there is not a day I do not dream of exchanging seats with my dentist. I am grateful for my job that pays the bills but not achieving your full potential as a professional is extremely difficult to deal with.

The result of our bench is due next month and having done what I could I know everything is in God's hands, so here I am again, back to where I have always been, to a group of faceless people who mean a lot to me eventhough I don't know you people personally...

I guess we just have to take each day as it comes and trying is better than not doing anything at all.

 

[yasi]

Is any body sure about changes in next RT exam?!!?

 

[michael-ag]

hi, all

 

[mommyr]

another crazy day has passed, just got home having worked 11 hours today, last night I got 2 phonecalls, one girl got in at Univ. of Toronto while the other one took the practical exam as well but didn't get in and she's been here in Canada 6 years, I have been here for 3...if the bench result is not favorable I guess I'll just rewrite the eligibility exam next year...

oh! what a long tiring day!