Bias against Texas residents

[premedtriguy]

Hello all, I have read many comments from others on these forums(particularly @Goro) talking about how TX residents are looked down upon in other states due to the high likelihood that they will attend a Texas medical school, and essentially be a waste of an interview slot unless they are a stellar applicant. My issue is that I am a reinventor (2.9uGPA, 3.85 postbacc GPA, and 3.9gGPA in an SMP (weak/no linkage, unfortunately). Based on the matriculant heatmap provided by TMDSAS, that gives me only a 6% chance of acceptance in Texas based on cumulative GPA and MCAT(511). Based on MSAR data, it would appear that most Texas schools are not that interested in reinventors. I applied to a LOT of non-Texas schools, particularly those that reward reinvention, in order to increase my chances as much as possible. My question is, is there anything I can do to help mitigate this OOS bias, or will other schools still assume I will attend medical school in Texas, even though my chances of getting an in-state acceptance are slim?

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[Goro]

Hello all, I have read many comments from others on these forums(particularly @Goro) talking about how TX residents are looked down upon in other states due to the high likelihood that they will attend a Texas medical school, and essentially be a waste of an interview slot unless they are a stellar applicant. My issue is that I am a reinventor (2.9uGPA, 3.85 postbacc GPA, and 3.9gGPA in an SMP (weak/no linkage, unfortunately). Based on the matriculant heatmap provided by TMDSAS, that gives me only a 6% chance of acceptance in Texas based on cumulative GPA and MCAT(511). Based on MSAR data, it would appear that most Texas schools are not that interested in reinventors. I applied to a LOT of non-Texas schools, particularly those that reward reinvention, in order to increase my chances as much as possible. My question is, is there anything I can do to help mitigate this OOS bias, or will other schools still assume I will attend medical school in Texas, even though my chances of getting an in-state acceptance are slim?

Apply to DO schools. Gyngyn has pointed out that people who leave TX are scholarship worthy (ie, superstars).

 

[whataschool_classof24]

Apply to DO schools. Gyngyn has pointed out that people who leave TX are scholarship worthy (ie, superstars).

I know a couple of fellow Texans who ended up going to oos mid tier schools at full price because they didn’t get an IS offer. I think oos schools are starting to pick up on the competitiveness of Texas

 

[gyngyn]

Let's take a look: https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2019-11/2019_FACTS_Table_A-5.pdf
Out of 4,895 TX applicants, only 255 left TX...
I know a few of them. We offered inducements.

Compare that to CA for context.

 

[premedtriguy]

Apply to DO schools. Gyngyn has pointed out that people who leave TX are scholarship worthy (ie, superstars).

I should have mentioned, I already have interviewed at several out of state DO programs and am even lucky enough to have one acceptance! Total silence from the 60+ MD apps that I sent out first day though(I pre wrote all my secondaries and sent them in within about 24 hours too). I didn't know how bad the Texas bias was until read about it on a few different posts.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I should have mentioned, I already have interviewed at several out of state DO programs and am even lucky enough to have one acceptance! Total silence from the 60+ MD apps that I sent out first day though. I didn't know how bad the Texas bias was until read about it on a few different posts.

60+ MDs? How many DOs did you apply? how were you able to finish all the secondaries?

 

[premedtriguy]

60+ MDs? How many DOs did you apply? how were you able to finish all the secondaries?

About 15 DO programs, and I spent the past year pre-writing my essays. I work in a lab where I am mostly able to make my own schedule, so I could pretty much clear my calendar for the day if the prompt changed for one of the secondaries.

 

[Goro]

I should have mentioned, I already have interviewed at several out of state DO programs and am even lucky enough to have one acceptance! Total silence from the 60+ MD apps that I sent out first day though(I pre wrote all my secondaries and sent them in within about 24 hours too). I didn't know how bad the Texas bias was until read about it on a few different posts.

60 MD apps? Donations, alas.

 

[KnightDoc]

I should have mentioned, I already have interviewed at several out of state DO programs and am even lucky enough to have one acceptance! Total silence from the 60+ MD apps that I sent out first day though(I pre wrote all my secondaries and sent them in within about 24 hours too). I didn't know how bad the Texas bias was until read about it on a few different posts.

So, congratulations!!! You are going to be a doctor!!! Unfortunately, the bias against TX is very real, is not totally unjustified, given how difficult TX is to break into OOS and how attractive it is for IS who are lucky enough to score an A (you basically face the same bias everywhere else that all OOS candidates face applying into TX), so how would you expect to be able to effectively mitigate it, short of taking a gap year and using it to establish residency somewhere else? It's the ugly flip side of having the opportunity to attend very decent schools at far below average cost.

 

[deleted697308]

Hello all, I have read many comments from others on these forums(particularly @Goro) talking about how TX residents are looked down upon in other states due to the high likelihood that they will attend a Texas medical school, and essentially be a waste of an interview slot unless they are a stellar applicant. My issue is that I am a reinventor (2.9uGPA, 3.85 postbacc GPA, and 3.9gGPA in an SMP (weak/no linkage, unfortunately). Based on the matriculant heatmap provided by TMDSAS, that gives me only a 6% chance of acceptance in Texas based on cumulative GPA and MCAT(511). Based on MSAR data, it would appear that most Texas schools are not that interested in reinventors. I applied to a LOT of non-Texas schools, particularly those that reward reinvention, in order to increase my chances as much as possible. My question is, is there anything I can do to help mitigate this OOS bias, or will other schools still assume I will attend medical school in Texas, even though my chances of getting an in-state acceptance are slim?

hm there are 4 texans in my class with lower stats

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

Piggybacking off the comment above, I am a TX resident attending an OOS mid-tier, and there are 3 other Texans in my class alone (and even more were interviewed). I have no idea about their stats, but I certainly was not a "superstar" applicant. I definitely don't consider my school as "mission-oriented," just one that was/is willing to consider TX applicants. You just need to do your homework ahead of time and see what schools have previously accepted Texas residents before according to the MSAR map.

 

[PigsHaveWings]

You will do well, if you had the caliber to grind through 75 secondaries, you will probably do we in medicine.

Piggybacking off the comment above, I am a TX resident attending an OOS mid-tier, and there are 3 other Texans in my class alone (and even more were interviewed). I have no idea about their stats, but I certainly was not a "superstar" applicant. I definitely don't consider my school as "mission-oriented," just one that was/is willing to consider TX applicants. You just need to do your homework ahead of time and see what schools have previously accepted Texas residents before according to the MSAR map.

What is the best way of getting this information from the MSAR, which schools have accepted Texas residents ? is there an MSAR map by state, or just press on each school and evaluate the map ? The map in the school acceptances doesn't indicate the number of students accepted by state, is there another place where we can get that information ?

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

What is the best way of getting this information from the MSAR, which schools have accepted Texas residents ? is there an MSAR map by state, or just press on each school and evaluate the map ? The map in the school acceptances doesn't indicate the number of students accepted by state, is there another place where we can get that information ?

No I was referring to that map towards the bottom of each school's page on MSAR. Not sure about where/how to figure out the actual number of Texans, though, since MSAR doesn't show that (and that's not really what I was looking for when I was applying-- I just wanted to know if that school had a recent history of TX matriculants). I think I do remember a few schools having info about the newest matriculating class on their websites that sometimes showed which states the incoming class was from, but I can't remember if I ever saw the amount listed there, either.

 

[MyOdyssey]

For Texans attending an OOS school, how many of you attended a non-Texas undergrad?

 

[KnightDoc]

For Texans attending an OOS school, how many of you attended a non-Texas undergrad?

Not only this ^^^^^, but UG in the state you ended up attending med school in (i.e., establishing a connection to the state)?

 

[deleted697308]

Not only this ^^^^^, but UG in the state you ended up attending med school in (i.e., establishing a connection to the state)!

3 of the 4 from my class attended public university in texas and one was an OOS but not the same state I'm in now!

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

For Texans attending an OOS school, how many of you attended a non-Texas undergrad?

Not only this ^^^^^, but UG in the state you ended up attending med school in (i.e., establishing a connection to the state)?

I attended an OOS undergrad, but not in the same state as my med school. One of the other Texans in my class attended UG in Texas, and I don’t remember exactly where the third went, but it wasn’t in the same state as our med school, either. None of us have ties or connections to the state. Also, just to add, there were two other TX residents on my interview day that didn’t end up matriculating, but they both went to Texas UGs.

 

[wysdoc]

@Goro or @gyngyn, do you think a strong Texas applicant can use the maps on the MSAR to see if any Texans matriculated last year, and if Texas shows up blank on the map, use that as a sign that applying there would be pointless?
I looked at 2 private schools as an example (SLU and Quinnipiac) and neither showed TX matriculants.

 

[gyngyn]

@Goro or @gyngyn, do you think a strong Texas applicant can use the maps on the MSAR to see if any Texans matriculated last year, and if Texas shows up blank on the map, use that as a sign that applying there would be pointless?
I looked at 2 private schools as an example (SLU and Quinnipiac) and neither showed TX matriculants.

Schools know that "superstar" TX applicants are only going to leave for a hefty recruitment scholarship to a school that regards itself as "better" than UTSW or Baylor.

 

[LizzyM]

If you've applied to 60 MD schools and not even one made you an offer it is not because they yield protecting against a Texan who will stay in Texas. From your record, it may be obvious to them that you won't be matriculating in Texas and those MD schools figure if you aren't good enough for Texas, you aren't good enough for them. I don't say this to be mean -- but just to be objective.

 

[KnightDoc]

If you've applied to 60 MD schools and not even one made you an offer it is not because they yield protecting against a Texan who will stay in Texas. From your record, it may be obvious to them that you won't be matriculating in Texas and those MD schools figure if you aren't good enough for Texas, you aren't good enough for them. I don't say this to be mean -- but just to be objective.

This^^^^^ perfectly captures the magic and the curse of coming from Texas.

Texas has a lot of schools, across all the tiers, that are dirt cheap and heavily favor Texas residents. It sucks if you are OOS, and it sucks if you are IS and have no luck there. You kind of have to be a high stat star to break into Texas from OOS, and you also have to be a high stat star, as @gyngyn pointed out, to be one of the 296 matriculating OOS out of 1852 Texans to enter med school last year.

If you aren't good enough to gain entry to a TX school as an IS applicant, given the advantage they have, it's really hard to break through as an OOS applicant anywhere else.

 

[wysdoc]

@Goro or @gyngyn, do you think a strong Texas applicant can use the maps on the MSAR to see if any Texans matriculated last year, and if Texas shows up blank on the map, use that as a sign that applying there would be pointless?
I looked at 2 private schools as an example (SLU and Quinnipiac) and neither showed TX matriculants.

@Faha, how do you make use of the map? Or do you go more by past knowledge of admission patterns?

 

[premedtriguy]

As an update, I was actually accepted to an MD program out of state!! Based on their MSAR data, I got incredibly lucky to be granted an interview, but it seems getting OOS with my stats requires a little luck! As @Goro mentioned, the DO programs were much more OOS friendly(I interviewed at 3, was accepted to 2 and withdrew my application after an unpleasant interview experience at 1).

 

[Faha]

@Faha, how do you make use of the map? Or do you go more by past knowledge of admission patterns?

It is useful if the school shows no Texas residents admitted. It is not useful if it shows that if someone was admitted from Texas since the number is not indicated on the map. If this information was available it would be useful. If it was known that 5 Texas residents were admitted at a school then that school is not biased against Texas residents. If only 1 admitted then that is not helpful. That 1 person could be a URM applicant with a MCAT of 518 and a GPA of 3.8 and they are offered a full scholarship. It could be someone who attended the undergraduate school and most schools give some preference to their own undergraduates.

 

[wysdoc]

It is useful if the school shows no Texas residents admitted. It is not useful if it shows that if someone was admitted from Texas since the number is not indicated on the map. If this information was available it would be useful. If it was known that 5 Texas residents were admitted at a school then that school is not biased against Texas residents. If only 1 admitted then that is not helpful. That 1 person could be a URM applicant with a MCAT of 518 and a GPA of 3.8 and they are offered a full scholarship. It could be someone who attended the undergraduate school and most schools give some preference to their own undergraduates.

Thanks @Faha that is helpful.

Edited to add that: I usually hang out & give advice on the Texas threads and pre-allo.
I have seen some great TX applicants get several interviews but no acceptances in TX this year.
They are understandably hesitant to apply TX-only again and would like to add on some OOS schools for their second application cycle.

 

[Goro]

What do you think your hook was?

As an update, I was actually accepted to an MD program out of state!! Based on their MSAR data, I got incredibly lucky to be granted an interview, but it seems getting OOS with my stats requires a little luck! As @Goro mentioned, the DO programs were much more OOS friendly(I interviewed at 3, was accepted to 2 and withdrew my application after an unpleasant interview experience at 1).

 

[premedtriguy]

What do you think your hook was?

I don't want to give too many details for the sake of anonymity, but the only difference between my previous unsuccessful application cycle and this one was a particularly unique research experience where I was working in a large laboratory in a far more hands-on role than I think is typical for a pre-med, and was able to present my work at an international conference, as well as gain a first authorship on an abstract. We plan to submit the manuscript(I will be first author on that as well) for publication before I leave for med school. I also think I was able to get some really strong LOR's from several PhD and MD/PhD researchers since I worked closely with them for between 20 and 40(and occasionally up to 50 or 60) hours a weeks for 2 years.

 

[Faha]

Thanks @Faha that is helpful.

Edited to add that: I usually hang out & give advice on the Texas threads and pre-allo.
I have seen some great TX applicants get several interviews but no acceptances in TX this year.
They are understandably hesitant to apply TX-only again and would like to add on some OOS schools for their second application cycle.

I know Tulane accepts some Texas applicants but I do not know if they are from east Texas bordering Louisiana.