Biden Out of Race

[DocMcCoy]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Pointing out an international trend suggesting an uphill battle isn't saying Dems were destined to lose.

I anticipate Dems messaging to change significantly as the minority party. Even more so assuming Trump tries to deport millions and recruit local and state police to assist.

Nobody was saying it was an uphill battle for democrats before Election Day.

 

[aneftp]

Pointing out an international trend suggesting an uphill battle isn't saying Dems were destined to lose.

I anticipate Dems messaging to change significantly as the minority party. Even more so assuming Trump tries to deport millions and recruit local and state police to assist.

How to the dems address the white make blue collar workers who don’t want DEI inclusivity pushed down their throats. The Latino men in particular are feeling the same way as the white men. The real beneficiaries of DEI are still women even white and Asian women.

It’s a huge problem moving forward recapturing the white male and now the Hispanics male vote.

 

[rowsdower88]

Nobody was saying it was an uphill battle for democrats before Election Day.

Definitely a job for historians, no doubt.

How to the dems address the white make blue collar workers who don’t want DEI inclusivity pushed down their throats. The Latino men in particular are feeling the same way as the white men. The real beneficiaries of DEI are still women even white and Asian women.

It’s a huge problem moving forward recapturing the white male and now the Hispanics male vote.

Machismo is tough to combat. Maybe a thoroughly masculine candidate could help?

A Schwarzenegger-esque persona? I'm spitballing. How did Fetterman do with male voters? He won despite a stroke against a popular media personality. I don't think the problem is as dire as you're suggesting.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

How to the dems address the white make blue collar workers who don’t want DEI inclusivity pushed down their throats. The Latino men in particular are feeling the same way as the white men. The real beneficiaries of DEI are still women even white and Asian women.

It’s a huge problem moving forward recapturing the white male and now the Hispanics male vote.

It will take at least a decade to bring young men back to the liberal, progressive side. The coming backlash against this demographic is going to make the electoral skew worse than it was this year.

I would predict more realignment in 2026 due to this slow cultural change. I still know dozens of women blaming men for being bad people on this

 

[emergentmd]

It's my impression that Republicans are more likely to "scold" someone if they deviate from the norm wrt sex, drugs, and employment.

Maybe you know some more permissive Republicans, but that was the context of my comment on personal responsibility.

I have been part of all the economic classes and I will explain it one more time. I am not looking for you to disagree or explain to me why I am wrong. I am just telling you this is how the working class feels and the vast majority of my friends/family is lower/middle class. I hang out with very little 1%.

Lets take the topic of gay marriage.

Middle/lower class - Most are not gay and will never be gay. Most will never understand how a man can be with a man. Truthfully, it grosses them out. When asked, they will tell you in private that they don't agree, don't understand, and kind of gross. BUT they don't care what people do in their personal life. They Do NO like to have it flaunted in their face and they HATE it when people demonize them for not agreeing with that lifestyle.

Dems - Scold and explain to them why they should accept and Agree that being gay is cool just like hetero. They push it in your face with month long gay months. Putting 10 different letters for every different group that wants to make it up. They walk around flaunting it.

People are born a certain way. Most people are born hetero. Yes, it sucks but seeing 2 guys kissing does gross people out NOT because they are bad/mean BUT because that is just how it makes them feel. Many Hetero are born that way, it is ingrained in their genetics. They are not being mean when that is just not their thing or it grosses them out. You don't need to brainwash them to feel a certain way.

So it just pushed the middle/lower class away when dems try to force them to feel happy/excited when they see 2 guys kiss. Its just genetics.

Just Like Porn. Some people love it, some people get grossed out. If you love it, good luck trying to make someone who gets grossed out to like/accept/watch it.

Its just as simple as that. It is not complicated. Hollywood is the classic group. They feel like they need to virtue signal and explain why being gay is so special while sitting in their 90210 having maids/cooks/drivers. Hell, if the middle/lower class lived in their 10 Mil homes, they would have alot more time to virtual signal. But they work 40-60 hrs/wk then come home for anther 40 hrs taking care of kids/cooking. They don't have time to tell someone else to think, they don't want to spend time having someone tell them how to think. They just want to be left alone and relax while watching TV. They want to sit back and watch a football game. They DON"T want to have football players kneeling, wearing pink patches, making virtual signaling signs when they get a Touchdown. They want to be left alone to just have 3 hrs of peace/relaxation without being told what to do or how to think which is what they get the other 100 hrs/wk.

I don't want/need you to explain to me why I am wrong. Why my thinking is wrong. I may be wrong but I live the lower/middle class most of my life and this is how we/they think I am just telling you how they think and how it is. So please don't respond to this even though I know it will kill you to not to respond b/c you have a deep desire to tell people why you are right.

 

[emergentmd]

It will take at least a decade to bring young men back to the liberal, progressive side. The coming backlash against this demographic is going to make the electoral skew worse than it was this year.

I would predict more realignment in 2026 due to this slow cultural change. I still know dozens of women blaming men for being bad people on this

The problem for dems with young men is media has changed forever. It used to be TV and that was it. Now they watch more podcasts and influencers. Their idols are the MMA fighters who they relate with. It is Joe Rogan and Dana White. It is Elon Musk who although uber rich, care less about being cancelled and speaks his mind. Plus he makes cool stuff that guys like.

Dems spent over 1B doing the old school ground and pound with zillions of 30 sec TV clips. NO ONE watches commercials anymore.
DJT got 3 hrs of a captive audience of 50M people for free just talking like 2 normal people that they relate to. That is way more effective with the young male and hispanic crowd than putting 500M into commercials telling people how to think.

 

[NicholasPavona]

I have been part of all the economic classes and I will explain it one more time. I am not looking for you to disagree or explain to me why I am wrong. I am just telling you this is how the working class feels and the vast majority of my friends/family is lower/middle class. I hang out with very little 1%.

Lets take the topic of gay marriage.

Middle/lower class - Most are not gay and will never be gay. Most will never understand how a man can be with a man. Truthfully, it grosses them out. When asked, they will tell you in private that they don't agree, don't understand, and kind of gross. BUT they don't care what people do in their personal life. They Do NO like to have it flaunted in their face and they HATE it when people demonize them for not agreeing with that lifestyle.

Dems - Scold and explain to them why they should accept and Agree that being gay is cool just like hetero. They push it in your face with month long gay months. Putting 10 different letters for every different group that wants to make it up. They walk around flaunting it.

People are born a certain way. Most people are born hetero. Yes, it sucks but seeing 2 guys kissing does gross people out NOT because they are bad/mean BUT because that is just how it makes them feel. Many Hetero are born that way, it is ingrained in their genetics. They are not being mean when that is just not their thing or it grosses them out. You don't need to brainwash them to feel a certain way.

So it just pushed the middle/lower class away when dems try to force them to feel happy/excited when they see 2 guys kiss. Its just genetics.

Just Like Porn. Some people love it, some people get grossed out. If you love it, good luck trying to make someone who gets grossed out to like/accept/watch it.

Its just as simple as that. It is not complicated. Hollywood is the classic group. They feel like they need to virtue signal and explain why being gay is so special while sitting in their 90210 having maids/cooks/drivers. Hell, if the middle/lower class lived in their 10 Mil homes, they would have alot more time to virtual signal. But they work 40-60 hrs/wk then come home for anther 40 hrs taking care of kids/cooking. They don't have time to tell someone else to think, they don't want to spend time having someone tell them how to think. They just want to be left alone and relax while watching TV. They want to sit back and watch a football game. They DON"T want to have football players kneeling, wearing pink patches, making virtual signaling signs when they get a Touchdown. They want to be left alone to just have 3 hrs of peace/relaxation without being told what to do or how to think which is what they get the other 100 hrs/wk.

I don't want/need you to explain to me why I am wrong. Why my thinking is wrong. I may be wrong but I live the lower/middle class most of my life and this is how we/they think I am just telling you how they think and how it is. So please don't respond to this even though I know it will kill you to not to respond b/c you have a deep desire to tell people why you are right.

Phenomenal post!

 

[aneftp]

Trump will be gone by 2028 election. Both repubs and dems have to figure how to win the masses.

Maybe trump is his own special breed. Which is probably the case. As both Haley and DeSantis failed miserably trying to unseat him as republican nominee.

What he has taught America is regular politics doesn’t move the needle. Look how much financial disadvantage he was at. And he still won. Twice.

 

[rowsdower88]

Lets take the topic of gay marriage.

Middle/lower class - Most are not gay and will never be gay. Most will never understand how a man can be with a man. Truthfully, it grosses them out. When asked, they will tell you in private that they don't agree, don't understand, and kind of gross. BUT they don't care what people do in their personal life. They Do NO like to have it flaunted in their face and they HATE it when people demonize them for not agreeing with that lifestyle.

Dems - Scold and explain to them why they should accept and Agree that being gay is cool just like hetero. They push it in your face with month long gay months. Putting 10 different letters for every different group that wants to make it up. They walk around flaunting it.

People are born a certain way. Most people are born hetero. Yes, it sucks but seeing 2 guys kissing does gross people out NOT because they are bad/mean BUT because that is just how it makes them feel. Many Hetero are born that way, it is ingrained in their genetics. They are not being mean when that is just not their thing or it grosses them out. You don't need to brainwash them to feel a certain way.

So it just pushed the middle/lower class away when dems try to force them to feel happy/excited when they see 2 guys kiss. Its just genetics.

How did you determine that middle/lower class people are genetically predisposed to dislike two guys kissing?

Regardless of how you personally feel about gay people, gay marriage enjoys widespread popularity in the US currently as far as I know.

It didn't get that way by having politicians ignoring gay people and not talking about gay issues. It was gradual persuasion over time. IMO, that's the kind of persuasion you're arguing is "scolding".

Progress in society towards gay acceptance was the product of persuasion. That persuasion can look like scolding sometimes I guess and Republicans want you to believe we're scolding when we're often trying to persuade.

I'm trying to persuade you of this, I'm not trying to scold you.

 

[crna2006]

I have been part of all the economic classes and I will explain it one more time. I am not looking for you to disagree or explain to me why I am wrong. I am just telling you this is how the working class feels and the vast majority of my friends/family is lower/middle class. I hang out with very little 1%.

Lets take the topic of gay marriage.

Middle/lower class - Most are not gay and will never be gay. Most will never understand how a man can be with a man. Truthfully, it grosses them out. When asked, they will tell you in private that they don't agree, don't understand, and kind of gross. BUT they don't care what people do in their personal life. They Do NO like to have it flaunted in their face and they HATE it when people demonize them for not agreeing with that lifestyle.

Dems - Scold and explain to them why they should accept and Agree that being gay is cool just like hetero. They push it in your face with month long gay months. Putting 10 different letters for every different group that wants to make it up. They walk around flaunting it.

People are born a certain way. Most people are born hetero. Yes, it sucks but seeing 2 guys kissing does gross people out NOT because they are bad/mean BUT because that is just how it makes them feel. Many Hetero are born that way, it is ingrained in their genetics. They are not being mean when that is just not their thing or it grosses them out. You don't need to brainwash them to feel a certain way.

So it just pushed the middle/lower class away when dems try to force them to feel happy/excited when they see 2 guys kiss. Its just genetics.

Just Like Porn. Some people love it, some people get grossed out. If you love it, good luck trying to make someone who gets grossed out to like/accept/watch it.

Its just as simple as that. It is not complicated. Hollywood is the classic group. They feel like they need to virtue signal and explain why being gay is so special while sitting in their 90210 having maids/cooks/drivers. Hell, if the middle/lower class lived in their 10 Mil homes, they would have alot more time to virtual signal. But they work 40-60 hrs/wk then come home for anther 40 hrs taking care of kids/cooking. They don't have time to tell someone else to think, they don't want to spend time having someone tell them how to think. They just want to be left alone and relax while watching TV. They want to sit back and watch a football game. They DON"T want to have football players kneeling, wearing pink patches, making virtual signaling signs when they get a Touchdown. They want to be left alone to just have 3 hrs of peace/relaxation without being told what to do or how to think which is what they get the other 100 hrs/wk.

I don't want/need you to explain to me why I am wrong. Why my thinking is wrong. I may be wrong but I live the lower/middle class most of my life and this is how we/they think I am just telling you how they think and how it is. So please don't respond to this even though I know it will kill you to not to respond b/c you have a deep desire to tell people why you are right.

What is "flaunting it", is like being a hetero couple having PDA's? Showing hetero lifestyle as normative all he time?
I am not arguing with you nor telling you that you are wrong, I just don't get it. How can someone living their life without hurting you bother you?
I see lots of stuff I think.is offensive and stupid all the time. I just ignore it. I just do not your explanation.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I'm trying to persuade you of this, I'm not trying to scold you.

Pedantry…

 

[rowsdower88]

Pedantry…

That did sound more earnest than honest probably.

I don't think he wants to talk with me anymore.

As a conservative voice, are you interested in contesting his belief that there is a genetic component to thinking gay people kissing is gross? Probably would sound less patronizing coming from you than me. You're a conservative, but you don't believe that right?

Edit: Nevermind, if you're not willing to pushback against someone arguing black people are genetically inferior you're not going to touch this.

 

[rowsdower88]

The problem for dems with young men is media has changed forever. It used to be TV and that was it. Now they watch more podcasts and influencers. Their idols are the MMA fighters who they relate with. It is Joe Rogan and Dana White. It is Elon Musk who although uber rich, care less about being cancelled and speaks his mind. Plus he makes cool stuff that guys like.

Dems spent over 1B doing the old school ground and pound with zillions of 30 sec TV clips. NO ONE watches commercials anymore.
DJT got 3 hrs of a captive audience of 50M people for free just talking like 2 normal people that they relate to. That is way more effective with the young male and hispanic crowd than putting 500M into commercials telling people how to think.

You could add Andrew Tate to that list of conservative men appealing to fertile young minds.

I don't think it's impossible to reverse this trend. There is currently very little direct competition to the daily wire. There are figures like Sam Seder, Cenk Uygur and Destiny who are gaining influence though. Any of those people would have gone on Rogan's show for as long as possible and given the best arguments for electing Harris.

At the time, I thought Rogan was being a pompous douche for demanding Harris fly out to his studio and sit for 3 hours at the tail end of her campaign. In retrospect, she probably should have done it. I'll admit I was wrong there.

Rogan is an anti-vaxxer who believes the moon landing was fake. I have very little respect for the man. But a lot of people listen to him.

 

[GravelRider]

I have been part of all the economic classes and I will explain it one more time. I am not looking for you to disagree or explain to me why I am wrong. I am just telling you this is how the working class feels and the vast majority of my friends/family is lower/middle class. I hang out with very little 1%.

Lets take the topic of gay marriage.

Middle/lower class - Most are not gay and will never be gay. Most will never understand how a man can be with a man. Truthfully, it grosses them out. When asked, they will tell you in private that they don't agree, don't understand, and kind of gross. BUT they don't care what people do in their personal life. They Do NO like to have it flaunted in their face and they HATE it when people demonize them for not agreeing with that lifestyle.

Dems - Scold and explain to them why they should accept and Agree that being gay is cool just like hetero. They push it in your face with month long gay months. Putting 10 different letters for every different group that wants to make it up. They walk around flaunting it.

People are born a certain way. Most people are born hetero. Yes, it sucks but seeing 2 guys kissing does gross people out NOT because they are bad/mean BUT because that is just how it makes them feel. Many Hetero are born that way, it is ingrained in their genetics. They are not being mean when that is just not their thing or it grosses them out. You don't need to brainwash them to feel a certain way.

So it just pushed the middle/lower class away when dems try to force them to feel happy/excited when they see 2 guys kiss. Its just genetics.

Just Like Porn. Some people love it, some people get grossed out. If you love it, good luck trying to make someone who gets grossed out to like/accept/watch it.

Its just as simple as that. It is not complicated. Hollywood is the classic group. They feel like they need to virtue signal and explain why being gay is so special while sitting in their 90210 having maids/cooks/drivers. Hell, if the middle/lower class lived in their 10 Mil homes, they would have alot more time to virtual signal. But they work 40-60 hrs/wk then come home for anther 40 hrs taking care of kids/cooking. They don't have time to tell someone else to think, they don't want to spend time having someone tell them how to think. They just want to be left alone and relax while watching TV. They want to sit back and watch a football game. They DON"T want to have football players kneeling, wearing pink patches, making virtual signaling signs when they get a Touchdown. They want to be left alone to just have 3 hrs of peace/relaxation without being told what to do or how to think which is what they get the other 100 hrs/wk.

I don't want/need you to explain to me why I am wrong. Why my thinking is wrong. I may be wrong but I live the lower/middle class most of my life and this is how we/they think I am just telling you how they think and how it is. So please don't respond to this even though I know it will kill you to not to respond b/c you have a deep desire to tell people why you are right.

The real question is gay a binary thing or not? Is it a continuum? For example, a man who watches The View (like yourself) cannot be 100% straight. You must fall into the straight/gay continuum somewhere. Everybody is probably a least a little bit gay. Someone who watches The View (like yourself) might be a lot more gay than someone who doesn’t (even if they are in the closet about it). Making “gayness” more socially acceptable is probably not such a bad thing even if the majority don’t go out and act on it.

Let your flag fly, man. We all see it. You don’t have to be shy about it anymore. Embrace it.

 

[Gern Blansten]

That did sound more earnest than honest probably.

I don't think he wants to talk with me anymore.

As a conservative voice, are you interested in contesting his belief that there is a genetic component to thinking gay people kissing is gross? Probably would sound less patronizing coming from you than me. You're a conservative, but you don't believe that right?

I think Hollywood is going overboard on their attempt at normalizing transgender and homosexual lifestyles. Every show has written in a character that is gay, a transgender, someone in a wheelchair, and a biracial couple. It all feels contrived because they all did it all at once. It is not genuine. It is all contrived. It seems like a DEI checkbox where you must have a certain number of items checked in order for the networks to approve your show.

He stated very clearly. Most don’t have any issue with a gay couple or what they do in the privacy of their own home. But just like a hetero couple who can’t keep their hands and lips off of each other, it’s tired. Adding in kissing and sex scenes that are extraneous to the plot of a show is annoying whether gay or straight. If you want to watch that kind of scene, there is a market for that you can tap into.

I work with a lot of gay people. They don’t flaunt it at work. I don’t flaunt my heterosexuality at work either. I don’t dress in leather sex outfits and join a parade down the street either. Sex should be almost exclusively private, no matter your orientation. If you are very close friends and it comes up as part of conversation that is relevant, I think most have no issue with it. It’s the constant shoving of it in everyone’s face that is the bigger issue.

I have no idea about what is being stated about genetic component to being grossed out. It’s not what I endorse. However, if you believe that someone is born gay and the opposite sex is considered unattractive sexually by such a person, why do you not believe that someone born heterosexual would not also find same sex relationships less than desirable. I think if I was at a gay friend’s home with my wife and we started making out on their couch, I think our gay friends would think that was pretty strange behavior. Similarly, if they came to my house and did the same thing, I would likely feel that was inappropriate. Similarly, I would not be interested in seeing either situation on a sitcom that I’m watching among my family. Yet, it’s been introduced on almost every show I can think of.

I am far from being a prude but I think it would be nice to have some forms of entertainment available that are family friendly. If I choose to watch a more racy show or movie, then that can be available as well. As it is now, it’s even sprinkled into kids shows.

I believe that many Americans and Trump voters are sick and tired of these agendas being forced on us in every entertainment medium. The left got greedy and has pushed things too far. This election is an attempt at a reset. Instead of understanding where they went wrong, the left is doubling down and will bring further harm to their party, as evidenced on MSNBC, CNN, The View, etc. it seems that no lessons will be learned. The fact that you are still on here lecturing us is evidence of that. Perhaps the fact that vector has gone missing may mean he has figured it out. Though I doubt that. He was far too entrenched. He’s likely bandaging his wounds and preparing for the 2026 midterms where he will pitch the same tired leftist propaganda.

 

[DocMcCoy]

That did sound more earnest than honest probably.

I don't think he wants to talk with me anymore.

As a conservative voice, are you interested in contesting his belief that there is a genetic component to thinking gay people kissing is gross? Probably would sound less patronizing coming from you than me. You're a conservative, but you don't believe that right?

Edit: Nevermind, if you're not willing to pushback against someone arguing black people are genetically inferior you're not going to touch this.

Meh, i mean it’s 2024. Be with whoever you want to be with. I disagree with the sentiment that MOST heterosexuals don’t understand how a man can be with a man or woman with a woman for that matter.

Don’t really understand the claimed genetic basis for having such a feeling, maybe the OP can explain better.

However, if there still exists a faction that hasn’t come around to the idea yet, I’d still give them some time and not chastise their bigotry. I mean leading figures in the Democratic Party didn’t support same sex marriage till fairly recently.

It’s then extreme fringe of the lgbt movement that poses an issue, the trans in sports, the 100 pronouns, the reassignment surgeries for inmates and minors, and the forced acceptance without question.

 

[Gern Blansten]

The real question is gay a binary thing or not? Is it a continuum? For example, a man who watches The View (like yourself) cannot be 100% straight. You must fall into the straight/gay continuum somewhere. Everybody is probably a least a little bit gay. Someone who watches The View (like yourself) might be a lot more gay than someone who doesn’t (even if they are in the closet about it). Making “gayness” more socially acceptable is probably not such a bad thing even if the majority don’t go out and act on it.

Let your flag fly, man. We all see it. You don’t have to be shy about it anymore. Embrace it.

And you wonder why you’re type is disliked?

 

[GravelRider]

And you wonder why your type is disliked?

Not true, I don’t wonder about that. Seems boring to me.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Not true, I don’t wonder about that. Seems boring to me.

Yeah. I knew you didn’t. It’s just a figure of speech.

 

[rowsdower88]

I think Hollywood is going overboard on their attempt at normalizing transgender and homosexual lifestyles. Every show has written in a character that is gay, a transgender, someone in a wheelchair, and a biracial couple. It all feels contrived because they all did it all at once. It is not genuine. It is all contrived.

He stated very clearly. Most don’t have any issue with a gay couple or what they do in the privacy of their own home. But just like a hetero couple who can’t keep their hands and lips off of each other, it’s tired. Adding in kissing and sex scenes that are extraneous to the plot of a show is annoying whether gay or straight. If you want to watch that kind of scene, there is a market for that you can tap into.

I work with a lot of gay people. They don’t flaunt it at work. I don’t flaunt my heterosexuality at work either. I don’t dress in leather sex outfits and join a parade down the street either. Sex should be almost exclusively private, no matter your orientation. If you are very close friends and it comes up as part of conversation that is relevant, I think most have no issue with it. It’s the constant shoving of it in everyone’s face that is the bigger issue.

I have no idea about what is being stated about genetic component to being grossed out. It’s not what I endorse. However, if you believe that someone is born gay and the opposite sex is considered unattractive sexually by such a person, why do you not believe that someone born heterosexual would not also find same sex relationships less than desirable. I think if I was at a gay friend’s home with my wife and we started making out on their couch, I think our gay friends would think that was pretty strange behavior. Similarly, if they came to my house and did the same thing, I would likely feel that was inappropriate. Similarly, I would not be interested in seeing either situation on a sitcom that I’m watching among my family. Yet, it’s been introduced on almost every show I can think of.

I am far from being a prude but I think it would be nice to have some forms of entertainment available that are family friendly. If I choose to watch a more racy show or movie, then that can be available as well. As it is now, it’s even sprinkled into kids shows.

I believe that many Americans and Trump voters are sick and tired of these agendas being forced on us in every entertainment medium. The left got greedy and has pushed things too far. This election is an attempt at a reset. Instead of understanding where they went wrong, the left is doubling down and will bring further harm to their party, as evidenced on MSNBC, CNN, The View, etc. it seems that no lessons will be learned. The fact that you are still on here lecturing us is evidence of that. Perhaps the fact that vector has gone missing may mean he has figured it out. Though I doubt that. He was far too entrenched. He’s likely bandaging his wounds and preparing for the 2026 midterms where he will pitch the same tired leftist propaganda.

You're critical of the genetic component, I am thankful.

The absence of a user doesn't indicate a markedly different political stance. Should I take your silence on Gassman as endorsement of some positions?

Conservatives keep using the word "forced" here. No one is making you watch these shows or endorse any Hollywood positions. You can still watch Looney Tunes with your kids if that's where your sensibilities lie.

The people working in Hollywood aren't the same people working in DC.

 

[GravelRider]

Yeah. I knew you didn’t. It’s just a figure of speech.

What’s a figure of speech?

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

This is how much the Dem leaders are so out of touch.



But but but, inflation is 2%. Geez. out of touch

"Are you telling me people voted for Trump because the price of bread is too high, eggs are too high?"

uhhh,
YES YOU IDIOT!

 

[crna2006]

I think Hollywood is going overboard on their attempt at normalizing transgender and homosexual lifestyles. Every show has written in a character that is gay, a transgender, someone in a wheelchair, and a biracial couple. It all feels contrived because they all did it all at once. It is not genuine. It is all contrived. It seems like a DEI checkbox where you must have a certain number of items checked in order for the networks to approve your show.

He stated very clearly. Most don’t have any issue with a gay couple or what they do in the privacy of their own home. But just like a hetero couple who can’t keep their hands and lips off of each other, it’s tired. Adding in kissing and sex scenes that are extraneous to the plot of a show is annoying whether gay or straight. If you want to watch that kind of scene, there is a market for that you can tap into.

I work with a lot of gay people. They don’t flaunt it at work. I don’t flaunt my heterosexuality at work either. I don’t dress in leather sex outfits and join a parade down the street either. Sex should be almost exclusively private, no matter your orientation. If you are very close friends and it comes up as part of conversation that is relevant, I think most have no issue with it. It’s the constant shoving of it in everyone’s face that is the bigger issue.

I have no idea about what is being stated about genetic component to being grossed out. It’s not what I endorse. However, if you believe that someone is born gay and the opposite sex is considered unattractive sexually by such a person, why do you not believe that someone born heterosexual would not also find same sex relationships less than desirable. I think if I was at a gay friend’s home with my wife and we started making out on their couch, I think our gay friends would think that was pretty strange behavior. Similarly, if they came to my house and did the same thing, I would likely feel that was inappropriate. Similarly, I would not be interested in seeing either situation on a sitcom that I’m watching among my family. Yet, it’s been introduced on almost every show I can think of.

I am far from being a prude but I think it would be nice to have some forms of entertainment available that are family friendly. If I choose to watch a more racy show or movie, then that can be available as well. As it is now, it’s even sprinkled into kids shows.

I believe that many Americans and Trump voters are sick and tired of these agendas being forced on us in every entertainment medium. The left got greedy and has pushed things too far. This election is an attempt at a reset. Instead of understanding where they went wrong, the left is doubling down and will bring further harm to their party, as evidenced on MSNBC, CNN, The View, etc. it seems that no lessons will be learned. The fact that you are still on here lecturing us is evidence of that. Perhaps the fact that vector has gone missing may mean he has figured it out. Though I doubt that. He was far too entrenched. He’s likely bandaging his wounds and preparing for the 2026 midterms where he will pitch the same tired leftist propaganda.

I don't understand, does it HURT you if they go to a parade?
If you don't like the movie don't watch it. I understand that there is so much contrived stuff in movies...but it is a movie. I can watch or not watch. This supposed flaunting that offends people seems to me like people just ...living.

 

[DirtDocMD]

I don't understand, does it HURT you if they go to a parade?
If you don't like the movie don't watch it. I understand that there is so much contrived stuff in movies...but it is a movie. I can watch or not watch. This supposed flaunting that offends people seems to me like people just ...living.

I think the difference lies in “tolerance” vs. “acceptance”. A Christian, in a free country, expects a Buddhist to “tolerate” his beliefs, and vice-versa. That’s not the same as expecting the Buddhist to “accept” Jesus, or expecting them to say “Jesus is Lord”.

This difference can be applied to lots of behaviors/beliefs, be they religious/sexual/behavioral, or otherwise.

I realize that’s not exactly what your post addresses, but I think that’s how some folks feel—that we’ve gone from asking for/expecting “tolerance”, to DEMANDING (with threats of cancellation or jail for hate crimes (I’m referring to speech, not violent hate crimes)) “acceptance”.

Tolerance and acceptance are not the same thing.

 

[crna2006]

I think the difference lies in “tolerance” vs. “acceptance”. A Christian, in a free country, expects a Buddhist to “tolerate” his beliefs, and vice-versa. That’s not the same as expecting the Buddhist to “accept” Jesus, or expecting them to say “Jesus is Lord”.

This difference can be applied to lots of behaviors/beliefs, be they religious/sexual/behavioral, or otherwise.

I realize that’s not exactly what your post addresses, but I think that’s how some folks feel—that we’ve gone from asking for/expecting “tolerance”, to DEMANDING (with threats of cancellation or jail for hate crimes (I’m referring to speech, not violent hate crimes)) “acceptance”.

Tolerance and acceptance are not the same thing.

No one is asking you LOVE anything. You just have to ACCEPT that these people have rights just like yours.
If you cannot ACCEPT that then move to a country that does not require you to.

 

[DirtDocMD]

No one is asking you LOVE anything. You just have to ACCEPT that these people have rights just like yours.
If you cannot ACCEPT that then move to a country that does not require you to.

You have completely missed the point.

I’m not talking about “accepting” their right to be “tolerated”.

If a man wants to dress as a woman, or act like a woman, or cut off his body parts to be more like a woman, folks should have no problem TOLERATING that.

The problem is when this person expects others to ACCEPT him as a woman, and acknowledge “acceptance” by CALLING him a woman, despite the fact his DNA says otherwise.

In a free country, folks should TOLERATE others beliefs. That doesn’t mean other folks have to ACCEPT those beliefs.

Try a dictionary, if this is too hard for you. You obviously don’t want to have a meaningful discussion about it (“accept it or leave the country”).

Good grief…

 

[rowsdower88]

Meh, i mean it’s 2024. Be with whoever you want to be with. I disagree with the sentiment that MOST heterosexuals don’t understand how a man can be with a man or woman with a woman for that matter.

Don’t really understand the claimed genetic basis for having such a feeling, maybe the OP can explain better.

However, if there still exists a faction that hasn’t come around to the idea yet, I’d still give them some time and not chastise their bigotry. I mean leading figures in the Democratic Party didn’t support same sex marriage till fairly recently.

It’s then extreme fringe of the lgbt movement that poses an issue, the trans in sports, the 100 pronouns, the reassignment surgeries for inmates and minors, and the forced acceptance without question.

I guess I'll state my position:

I don't believe there's any evidence that there is a genetic component to heterosexual or homosexual people observing a heterosexual or homosexual kiss pleasing or displeasing.

I think that such preferences are best understood to be determined by culture until incredibly strong evidence can be presented to the contrary. This is not saying that homosexuality doesn't have a genetic component or exist on a spectrum.

I agree that Dem politicians were late to the party relatively speaking wrt gay marriage. I think the "forced acceptance" rhetoric is very rare as far as Democratic politicians go and is usually a mistake when both politicians and non-politicians articulate it.

The problem I have is when Dem politicians are asked to be held accountable for positions they don't hold and even ones most of their Democratic and Republican constituents don't hold.

Take the issue of transgender participation in sports you mentioned. There is widespread divergence in opinion between the parties on whether or not transgender women should participate with their gender identity, no doubt. BUT, polling-wise at least from 2021, there appears to be surprising convergence against the idea that the solution should be a government ban on transwomen playing with teams matching their gender identity. (1) Presumably, the populace believed that school districts/colleges/sports governing bodies should take care of restricting it as necessary. This is, incidentally, what has been happening over time at the collegiate level at least with various sports in addition to the outright bans in conservative states. Individual state polling could vary as well!

So how should a Dem politician look at this polling? Their base AND the Republican base didn't necessarily believe a ban was necessary at least 3 years ago (subsequent polling can obviously change and reflect new opinions). Opposing a ban (or measures equivalent to bans) should be an easy calculation, no?

Well that's not how it actually plays out. Because at least in terms of ads, the Republicans hammered incumbent D Senators on their refusal to vote for an amendment that would have stripped funding from schools and colleges that allowed transwomen to compete in categories matching their gender identity. This would have been a ban in all but name and Republicans mischaracterized it mercilessly as "voting to let men play with our girls". Politifact rated these claims as false each time (2-4). Just fostering misinformation about their votes.

If you want to hammer Dems when they vote for things that you don't like, that's fine. But I assume we agree it's wrong to hammer them on positions they don't necessarily believe in.

1. https://www.npr.org/2021/04/16/9877...ppose-transgender-sports-legislation-poll-sho

2. Tester did not vote to let men compete against girls

3. Brown didn’t vote to allow “biological men” into girls’ spor

4. Sam Brown is wrong on Jacky Rosen’s transgender athlete vote

 

[Lost in Translation]

A Christian, in a free country, expects a Buddhist to “tolerate” his beliefs, and vice-versa. That’s not the same as expecting the Buddhist to “accept” Jesus, or expecting them to say “Jesus is Lord”.

In the USA, more frequently than not, the Christian expects acceptance of Jesus from non-Christians. It's the opposite, where the non-Christian religious group member expects tolerance from Christians and does not receive it.

Tolerance and acceptance are not the same thing.

You are correct, however, those who are unwilling to accept homosexuality/pansexuality as realities of life are also often intolerant of it.

 

[DirtDocMD]

In the USA, more frequently than not, the Christian expects acceptance of Jesus from non-Christians. It's the opposite, where the non-Christian religious group member expects tolerance from Christians and does not receive it.



You are correct, however, those who are unwilling to accept homosexuality/pansexuality as realities of life are also often intolerant of it.

So?? Is that your point?? That there’s some “pushy” Christians out there, and some folks who don’t “accept” behaviors and are “intolerant” of them, too???

That’s kinda MY point. There are pushy people on both sides, and, in this election, one side got tired of the other’s “pushing”.

Ok, Captain Obvious…. We all acknowledge the world (or even this nation) aren’t perfect (or tolerant).

 

[pgg]

Lets take the topic of gay marriage.

Middle/lower class - Most are not gay and will never be gay. Most will never understand how a man can be with a man. Truthfully, it grosses them out. When asked, they will tell you in private that they don't agree, don't understand, and kind of gross. BUT they don't care what people do in their personal life. They Do NO like to have it flaunted in their face and they HATE it when people demonize them for not agreeing with that lifestyle.

Dems - Scold and explain to them why they should accept and Agree that being gay is cool just like hetero. They push it in your face with month long gay months. Putting 10 different letters for every different group that wants to make it up. They walk around flaunting it.

People are born a certain way. Most people are born hetero. Yes, it sucks but seeing 2 guys kissing does gross people out NOT because they are bad/mean BUT because that is just how it makes them feel. Many Hetero are born that way, it is ingrained in their genetics. They are not being mean when that is just not their thing or it grosses them out. You don't need to brainwash them to feel a certain way.

So it just pushed the middle/lower class away when dems try to force them to feel happy/excited when they see 2 guys kiss. Its just genetics.

It's fascinating that you seem to be missing the larger point of what you just wrote.

The only reason that today you are talking about "gayness" as a genetic trait people are born with, and not a sinful choice made by perverts and deviants ... is because the left's scolded and explained it to you.

Also, it's a lie that your party didn't (and doesn't) care what other people do in their personal life.

All that said - you're right, identity politics doesn't really win elections.

 

[crna2006]

You have completely missed the point.

I’m not talking about “accepting” their right to be “tolerated”.

If a man wants to dress as a woman, or act like a woman, or cut off his body parts to be more like a woman, folks should have no problem TOLERATING that.

The problem is when this person expects others to ACCEPT him as a woman, and acknowledge “acceptance” by CALLING him a woman, despite the fact his DNA says otherwise.

In a free country, folks should TOLERATE others beliefs. That doesn’t mean other folks have to ACCEPT those beliefs.

Try a dictionary, if this is too hard for you. You obviously don’t want to have a meaningful discussion about it (“accept it or leave the country”).

Good grief…

He can demand acceptance, you can deny it. Simple. People can ask me to use preferred pronouns, probably not going to do it. Sir and ma'am work for me.
See it is not that hard and I do not understand why anyone gets upset.

 

[DirtDocMD]

He can demand acceptance, you can deny it. Simple. People can ask me to use preferred pronouns, probably not going to do it. Sir and ma'am work for me.
See it is not that hard and I do not understand why anyone gets upset.

In a “free” country, you get to ASK for acceptance, not DEMAND it (this gets back to the cancellation and threats of imprisonment I mentioned). These “demands” are showing themselves as laws/regulations/work rules/internet policies, not just people “demanding” acceptance, and acting ok when someone replies “no”.

You just said that if I’m not willing to go along with his demands, I should “leave the country”. Is that your idea of a “free” country?? Is that how you “tolerate” others beliefs??

I’m not arguing semantics, here. It seems you are missing the whole point about why folks who were ASKED to TOLERATE a behavior (and in MOST CASES, they DID) don’t appreciate DEMANDS to ACCEPT a behavior.

 

[Lost in Translation]

So?? Is that your point?? That there’s some “pushy” Christians out there, and some folks who don’t “accept” behaviors and are “intolerant” of them, too???

That’s kinda MY point. There are pushy people on both sides, and, in this election, one side got tired of the other’s “pushing”.

Ok, Captain Obvious…. We all acknowledge the world (or even this nation) aren’t perfect (or tolerant).

My point is that there are more than just "some". This election proved that. All the politicians in Congress with (R) next to their names, who had to be elected to their positions by their constituents, who are actively trying to pass laws that outlaw certain groups of people, who are actively trying to pass laws that establish a singular national religion, prove that.

 

[crna2006]

In a “free” country, you get to ASK for acceptance, not DEMAND it (this gets back to the cancellation and threats of imprisonment I mentioned). These “demands” are showing themselves as laws/regulations/work rules/internet policies, not just people “demanding” acceptance, and acting ok when someone replies “no”.

You just said that if I’m not willing to go along with his demands, I should “leave the country”. Is that your idea of a “free” country?? Is that how you “tolerate” others beliefs??

I’m not arguing semantics, here. It seems you are missing the whole point about why folks who were ASKED to TOLERATE a behavior (and in MOST CASES, they DID) don’t appreciate DEMANDS to ACCEPT a behavior.

People have never gotten rights by "asking". One must demand for the status quo to change. A brief perusal of history would demand this. It always is those who are comfortable with the status quo who say ask. If someone demands that you do something proactive (use a pronoun participate in some activity you can say no) if the demand is for the SAME rights you enjoy and you do not want to give them then one should consider your commitment to our form of government and go where you can discriminate to your hearts content.

 

[NukHopkins]

Shut this thread down. Election is over. Reopen a different one when left contests election bc of starlink.

 

[DocMcCoy]

I agree that Dem politicians were late to the party relatively speaking wrt gay marriage. I think the "forced acceptance" rhetoric is very rare as far as Democratic politicians go and is usually a mistake when both politicians and non-politicians articulate it.

The forced acceptance is coming from the left in general, specifically a very vocal faction of the left. The issue is broader than just politicians. This is an important distinction relevant to a later reply here, but it’s a tightrope issue, like the war in Gaza, it’s hard for politicians (D) to lean too hard one way or the other, lest they offend some component of their base. Of course republicans are going to take advantage of this.

The problem I have is when Dem politicians are asked to be held accountable for positions they don't hold and even ones most of their Democratic and Republican constituents don't hold.

Take the issue of transgender participation in sports you mentioned. There is widespread divergence in opinion between the parties on whether or not transgender women should participate with their gender identity, no doubt. BUT, polling-wise at least from 2021, there appears to be surprising convergence against the idea that the solution should be a government ban on transwomen playing with teams matching their gender identity.

The take away is that republicans very obviously are against trans in women’s sports, democrats are not. The right doesn’t want government in schools period, it isn’t necessarily surprising they don’t support a government ban to achieve that goal.

Well that's not how it actually plays out. Because at least in terms of ads, the Republicans hammered incumbent D Senators on their refusal to vote for an amendment that would have stripped funding from schools and colleges that allowed transwomen to compete in categories matching their gender identity. This would have been a ban in all but name and Republicans mischaracterized it mercilessly as "voting to let men play with our girls". Politifact rated these claims as false each time (2-4). Just fostering misinformation about their votes.

Politically, of course they are going to hammer democrats this way. It works. It puts democrat politicians on the defensive (Allred in Texas) and makes them state a position publicly, and sound incredibly out of touch. This is how republicans are currently winning the culture war. It’s not that it’s a ubiquitous issue affecting all of our lives it’s that you can’t step back and see why so many people think it’s not such a good idea.

How “wildly successful” anti-trans ads fired up Texas voters for Republicans

The barrage of ads focused on trans kids playing youth sports motivated the Republican base as Democrats struggled to respond.

www.texastribune.org

That has consistently been the defense here. It baffles me one can’t see why I have a problem with a Rachel Levine using the same bathroom as my 6 year old daughter. Or, why I question if Imane Khelif should be boxing women and suing people that question her womanhood.

Olympic boxer Imane Khelif takes legal action over male chromosomes claims

Imane Khelif, the boxer who won Olympic gold amid a gender eligibility row, is taking legal action over reports in France this week claimed the 25-year-old has XY (male) chromosomes

amp.theguardian.com

Massive outrage over Imane Khelif's leaked medical report: 'Democrats hate women' - Times of India

Khelif's gender became an election issue as Donald Trump included Imane's example in an advertisement critiquing the Biden-Harris administration's approach to gender ad athletics. GOP politicians like Vivek Ramaswamy, JD Vance also expressed their opinion that they won't allow men in the female...

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[Lost in Translation]

The right doesn’t want government in schools period

Sure...

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/us/oklahoma-schools-bible-curriculum/index.html

Or, why I question if Imane Khelif should be boxing women and suing people that question her womanhood.

Olympic boxer Imane Khelif takes legal action over male chromosomes claims

Imane Khelif, the boxer who won Olympic gold amid a gender eligibility row, is taking legal action over reports in France this week claimed the 25-year-old has XY (male) chromosomes

amp.theguardian.com

Massive outrage over Imane Khelif's leaked medical report: 'Democrats hate women' - Times of India

Khelif's gender became an election issue as Donald Trump included Imane's example in an advertisement critiquing the Biden-Harris administration's approach to gender ad athletics. GOP politicians like Vivek Ramaswamy, JD Vance also expressed their opinion that they won't allow men in the female...

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

This particular situation is less clear because she has a congenital condition that can be hard to diagnose at birth when it comes to ambiguous genitalia, so it's not impossible that her family thought they were a girl and thus raised her that way. Then, when(ever) it became apparent that they were not an XX female, because Algeria does not recognize transsexuals as humans (though Imane would not technically be transsexual by definition) their life would have been in real danger because politicians aren't smart enough to recognize an MTF from an AIS individual. Does that mean Khelif should be boxing XX competitors? I don't have an answer for that.

 

[DirtDocMD]

People have never gotten rights by "asking". One must demand for the status quo to change. A brief perusal of history would demand this. It always is those who are comfortable with the status quo who say ask. If someone demands that you do something proactive (use a pronoun participate in some activity you can say no) if the demand is for the SAME rights you enjoy and you do not want to give them then one should consider your commitment to our form of government and go where you can discriminate to your hearts content.

Ummm… There you go, demanding I leave the country, again…..

I’m not sure what you’ve been trying to accomplish the last few weeks, since you got here, but having a “discussion”, is obviously not it. You display no comprehension of anything I wrote.

Again, folks have a RIGHT to have behaviors tolerated. They don’t have a right to have their behavior ACCEPTED.

You seem to want to “win” an argument, without even listening to what the other person is saying.

I wish you well in your future endeavors. I won’t ask you to leave the country, but I’d sure appreciate it if you’d quit wasting my (and so many others) time.

Good day….

 

[Gern Blansten]

Should I take your silence on Gassman as endorsement of some positions?

As I stated, I was not involved in that argument because it was too toxic of a topic. I purposely stayed out.

 

[DocMcCoy]

This particular situation is less clear because she has a congenital condition that can be hard to diagnose at birth when it comes to ambiguous genitalia, so it's not impossible that her family thought they were a girl and thus raised her that way. Then, when(ever) it became apparent that they were not an XX female, because Algeria does not recognize transsexuals as humans (though Imane would not technically be transsexual by definition) their life would have been in real danger because politicians aren't smart enough to recognize an MTF from an AIS individual.

You are so close. All of that can be true. But also, if the leaked medical records are true (5 alpha reductase deficiency, XY karyotype, internal testes, micropenis, male testosterone levels) can you also admit maybe she shouldn’t box women in the Olympics??

 

[rowsdower88]

Politically, of course they are going to hammer democrats this way. It works. It puts democrat politicians on the defensive (Allred in Texas) and makes them state a position publicly, and sound incredibly out of touch. This is how republicans are currently winning the culture war. It’s not that it’s a ubiquitous issue affecting all of our lives it’s that you can’t step back and see why it’s not such a good idea.

It works not only because it puts them on the defensive, but also because it's often misinformation as I described and sourced earlier. Allred stated his position publicly as anti-transwomen in sports. You can be for politicians stating their positions publicly, and be against the spread of misinformation. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

I would argue the misinformation hurt Senate Dems as much if not more than publicly stating their positions, because their positions as far as I've seen have been pretty tame. It's partially misinformation that is winning the culture war for conservatives on this issue, not just Dems seemingly erratic posture on it.

I have no problem with ads attacking Republicans showing their votes restricting abortion in states or demanding they reveal their position on it. I have a problem with attacks that misrepresent the harms those votes cause or misreprepresenting the candidates' positions.

Misinformation is getting worse.

 

[DocMcCoy]

Does that mean Khelif should be boxing XX competitors? I don't have an answer for that.

This is why you lost.

 

[rowsdower88]

As I stated, I was not involved in that argument because it was too toxic of a topic. I purposely stayed out.

Sure. I don't know why we would take vectors absence as some indication he believes one thing or another then.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Sure. I don't know why we would take vectors absence as some indication he believes one thing or another then.

If you think I was talking about that topic with that comment, that is not what I was intending. I suspected his absence had to do with frustration over the election outcome after going all in anti-Trump.
As I said, I am not touching the other topic. I have limits on what topics I’m willing to argue about. He wandered into a topic that was too much for me.

 

[Lost in Translation]

This is why you lost.

Because I don't want to say that we should start genetically testing all athletes regardless of their appearance to make sure they are externally representing the phenotype their genotype says they are? Ignoring the gross invasion of privacy, do you realize how dangerous that would be when applied by those with nefarious motives? I didn't pick a position because I don't have an answer because the situation has no precedent and both arguments make sense to me (that an XY individual is likely to have more muscle mass similar to normal XY males vs. a person with DSD can be raised a female and have internalized that identity without any secondary motive). It is a fundamentally different situation from someone born XY and raised male however identifies with females and undergoes transsexual treatments to become phenotypically female; in that scenario I would argue against allowing that person to compete in women's sports.

It's funny that you are here in this thread arguing against seeing the world as black and white, or to put in terms easier for you to understand: that Americans who voted for Trump are not all MAGA Christofascist racists, and yet here you are trying to dichotomously assert that an individual that outwardly appears female and has since birth should be competing against males because their genes are XY, ignoring the rest of their personal biology. To go along with your binary logic, let's strike Phelps' records from the books because his its genotype is 47XXY. He is neither male nor female by your standards. But you would never argue for that, right?

 

[aneftp]

Again the liberal news media (I believe) is reporting it wrong saying the fema supervisor telling other workers was “fired”. I don’t believe they were fired. I think they were “re assigned”. It’s a huge difference since federal workers are hard to fire after 2 years.

Usually what happens in these days is they basically go to work in some type of cold environment like a government building and pay on their cell phones for weeks at a time and still get paid. That’s how the govt works. And I hope trump changes this.

Even the irs lady Lerner didn’t get fired. She retired

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/s/rAalOKceDA

 

[DocMcCoy]

Because I don't want to say that we should start genetically testing all athletes regardless of their appearance to make sure they are externally representing the phenotype their genotype says they are? Ignoring the gross invasion of privacy, do you realize how dangerous that would be when applied by those with nefarious motives? I didn't pick a position because I don't have an answer because the situation has no precedent and both arguments make sense to me (that an XY individual is likely to have more muscle mass similar to normal XY males vs. a person with DSD can be raised a female and have internalized that identity without any secondary motive). It is a fundamentally different situation from someone born XY and raised male however identifies with females and undergoes transsexual treatments to become phenotypically female; in that scenario I would argue against allowing that person to compete in women's sports.

To go along with your binary logic, let's strike Phelps' records from the books because his its genotype is 47XXY. He is neither male nor female by your standards.

It's funny that you are here in this thread arguing against seeing the world as black and white, or to put in terms easier for you to understand: that Americans who voted for Trump are not all MAGA Christofascist racists, and yet here you are trying to dichotomously assert that an individual that outwardly appears female and has since birth should be competing against males because their genes are XY, ignoring the rest of their personal biology.

You are absolutely clueless.

There is an apropos precedent for this (Caster Semenya).

Your answer is full of false equivalence and whataboutism.

The question is, irrespective of their gender identity, does an individual with an XY karyotype, normal male testosterone levels, testicles, and a penis have a generic advantage over an XX female with a typical XX phenotype, and should that persons be allowed to compete professionally, for money, fame, medals, etc., against women?

It’s about conferring a genetic advantage. Lol let’s say Phelps really is XXY and now identifies as a woman and he wants to come out of retirement and now race women. By your logic this is ok??

It’s not black and white it’s common sense. You can’t see through your own BS to understand that.

Your emphasis is on what gender they were raised as, which is completely irrelevant.

 

[crna2006]

Ummm… There you go, demanding I leave the country, again…..

I’m not sure what you’ve been trying to accomplish the last few weeks, since you got here, but having a “discussion”, is obviously not it. You display no comprehension of anything I wrote.

Again, folks have a RIGHT to have behaviors tolerated. They don’t have a right to have their behavior ACCEPTED.

You seem to want to “win” an argument, without even listening to what the other person is saying.

I wish you well in your future endeavors. I won’t ask you to leave the country, but I’d sure appreciate it if you’d quit wasting my (and so many others) time.

Good day….

Well you are correct you do not have to accept/tolerate behavior, but in all of your examples you are not talking about behavior specific to these groups they are behaviors performed by all groups.
I never demanded you leave the country, just said may be happy elsewhere

 

[pgg]

As I stated, I was not involved in that argument because it was too toxic of a topic. I purposely stayed out.

Do you not understand that this is exactly the criticism many of us have of you and other reasonable Trump voters?

Obviously not all Trump voters were racist or otherwise terrible people, but the vast overwhelming majority of you were content to quietly let such people stand among you.

Had rowsdower88 or vector or me or anyone else posted such ridiculous racist crap, you'd have been all over it.

Your decision to stay out of it is the problem.

 

[DirtDocMD]

Well you are correct you do not have to accept/tolerate behavior, but in all of your examples you are not talking about behavior specific to these groups they are behaviors performed by all groups.
I never demanded you leave the country, just said may be happy elsewhere

No one is asking you LOVE anything. You just have to ACCEPT that these people have rights just like yours.
If you cannot ACCEPT that then move to a country that does not require you to.

“If you cannot ACCEPT that then move to a country that does not require you to.”

Dude, you wanna act like you don’t even know what YOU said, now? Seriously, if all you wanna do is argue, at least be HONEST about what you said.

Reading is FUNdamental….

Take the “loss”, and move on…