Biden Out of Race

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Misdemeanor… which you get for crossing the border illegally, which you know is a criminal offense, right?

You saw I included "criminal misdemeanor" to show that I was aware of those cases and the difference. Not sure why you felt the need to restate what I said.

I was pointing out that if you aren't overly concerned about civil penalties, well then it is odd to be overly concerned about unlawful presence (the majority of cases).
 
You are trying to push me into an argument I’m not making. I already said they shoud be punished. The punishment we have for that on the books isn’t rounding them up and arresting them. The end users of heroin are punished according to the laws on the books, which generally are more lenient than trafficking. Your solution would undoubtably be effective in mitigating illegals coming here for work. It does nothing to stop the “bad hombres” here for more nefarious purposes.

But are they being punished? Are those laws being enforced? I don’t think they are. Is there a political movement demanding that the laws punishing business owners who hire illegal immigrants be enforced? Why are you and your Republican cohorts not demanding those laws to be enforced? Maybe we even strengthen those laws so that the punishment is more severe?

If there is a major societal problem, wouldn’t you want to approach that problem from multiple angles? Wouldn’t that be more efficient?
 
You saw I included "criminal misdemeanor" to show that I was aware of those cases and the difference. Not sure why you felt the need to restate what I said.

I was pointing out that if you aren't overly concerned about civil penalties, well then it is odd to be overly concerned about unlawful presence (the majority of cases).

You should go back and reread what I said. I think you are so focused on the answer you assumed I would say, you totally glossed over the fact that I said they should be punished (regarding the hiring of illegals).
 
But are they being punished? Are those laws being enforced? I don’t think they are. Is there a political movement demanding that the laws punishing business owners who hire illegal immigrants be enforced? Why are you and your Republican cohorts not demanding those laws to be enforced? Maybe we even strengthen those laws so that the punishment is more severe?

If there is a major societal problem, wouldn’t you want to approach that problem from multiple angles? Wouldn’t that be more efficient?


I’ll say it again just so we are all on the same page. That isn’t an effective strategy if you are truly after the bad players.

Though some states like Indiana and Arizona are making a push for it. Others, like my Texas aren’t.
 
I’ll say it again just so we are all on the same page. That isn’t an effective strategy if you are truly after the bad players.

Though some states like Indiana and Arizona are making a push for it. Others, like my Texas aren’t.

You say it’s not an effective strategy. Is that a belief? A feeling? What evidence do you have that it’s not?

And they are not just truly going after the “bad players.” To quote: “You’re going to see more work site enforcement than you’ve ever seen in the history of this nation,” Thomas D. Homan, the White House border czar told reporters recently. “We’re going to flood the zone.


Shouldn’t the employers who hired those people have whatever laws exist enforced for their punishment as well? They broke the law, did they not?
 
According to Google, 74% of “unauthorized” immigrants are employed. In my mind, those employers should face punishments as stiff as the immigrants being rounded up, arrested, and thrown in jail. I would favor severe, almost bankrupting, financial penalties, but jail works

That is no way to bring manufacturing back. LA is one of the few places in the USA where garments are still manufactured. We can’t all walk around naked. Do you want your kids to work in a garment factory?
 
If, as a society, we have decided that illegal immigration is a problem that needs to be solved then we should be willing to pay whatever those financial consequences are. I actually think homeowners who hire contractors and landscapers without doing adequate due diligence should be on the hook for penalties related to employing illegal immigrants…whether that be severe fines or jail time.


I’ve hired a few contractors. I make sure they’re licensed and bonded and have referrals from people I know. I don’t go through their payroll and check the immigration status or criminal background check of every single employee. I wouldn’t even know how to do that.
 
You say it’s not an effective strategy. Is that a belief? A feeling? What evidence do you have that it’s not?

And they are not just truly going after the “bad players.” To quote: “You’re going to see more work site enforcement than you’ve ever seen in the history of this nation,” Thomas D. Homan, the White House border czar told reporters recently. “We’re going to flood the zone.


Shouldn’t the employers who hired those people have whatever laws exist enforced for their punishment as well? They broke the law, did they not?


I’m going to entertain your argument, which by the way, is a little disingenuous. Because, the left would never hold a full court press position on type of law enforcement (with the exception of pushing anti 2A laws). Unless you are are saying we need to do things, like going back to broken windows policing, and arresting every Tom, Dick, and Harry that is carrying a nickel bag of sticks and stems to stop the drug trade. Because we know it ain’t Tom, Dick, and Harry to be the ones that get charged and go to prison.

Your strategy would be an effective strategy for targeting illegals coming here for work. I’m not advocating against it. Yes, I’m in favor of employers being punished for it. However, there are several reasons why it won’t stop illegals that are coming here to commit real crime (prostitution, drugs, trafficking etc). Some of those should be obvious, like overburdening a strained DOJ, and having next to no impact on organized and gang related crime.

BTW, going after the true criminal types is what most people, including myself, are in favor of. Targeting Home Depot migrants is more the way of the hardliners. That is reflected in recent polls as well. But, if ICE is conducting a targeted operation against an illegal with a list of felonies, and they happen to pick up a dozen more illegals in the process and chose to deport them, then, c’est la vie, or more appropriately, adios, I guess.

 
I’ve hired a few contractors. I make sure they’re licensed and bonded and have referrals from people I know. I don’t go through their payroll and check the immigration status or criminal background check of every single employee. I wouldn’t even know how to do that.


I may or may not have found the guys that re-did my shower on Facebook. Neither of them spoke English. I didn’t ask any questions. They were in and out in six hours. Good work. And cheap to boot.
 
How come Barack HUSSEIN Obama deported all these people with no pushback from democrats?
 
If they truly were serious about illegal immigration, one would think there would be much more of a focus on cracking down on the companies and executives hiring and utilizing illegal labor, since this is where the volume is. I mean, I feel like this would be a no-brainer, as it would allow them to address the problem at scale.

Also, you'd think there would be more focus on red states in general, since they are essentially low hanging fruit and where they'd encounter the least resistance to deporting as many people as possible.

This isn't what we're seeing. So, what they actually seem serious about and more focused on isn't immigration, but deportation theater.
 
How come Barack HUSSEIN Obama deported all these people with no pushback from democrats?

Probably because the original mission for ICE has shifted from public safety (focusing on actual criminals) to an obsession with increasing deportation numbers that undermines the agency's original mission.

Mission creep.

"This current administration is chaotic. It's moving at breakneck speeds. They're under tremendous pressure," said John Sandweg, who was acting director of ICE under President Barack Obama, from August 2013 to February 2014.

"When you have your officers and agents focused on grabbing as many people as you can. What you're doing is you're diverting the resources that could be focused on those more serious criminal populations, the real problem here," Sandweg said.

Sandweg believes that an obsession with increasing deportation numbers undermines the agency's mission to protect public safety. According to the former director, a more effective strategy would resemble the more targeted enforcement focus of the Obama years.

"If they were utilizing the Obama-era strategies and tactics that we utilized, I would have far less concerns," Sandweg said. He emphasized that a more effective strategy would be to prioritize removing individuals who pose significant public safety threats.

"If you say, hey, our goal is to deport as many people as possible, by definition, what that ends up resulting in is a lower quality of removal. It's just easier and faster to apprehend individuals who don't pose a threat to public safety than it is to apprehend individuals who are dangerous," said Sandweg.

"Gangsters, serious criminals are just harder to find. You know, that's just a population that's more difficult, more challenging to find … in a perfect world, ICE is no longer measured by the number of people that they've deported, but rather upon, you know, the quality of those removals, who they're getting off the streets.

"Unfortunately, the administration's taken an opposite approach."

Sandweg said: "Trump has created this narrative that the agency wasn't working at full capacity under Biden—but that's just not true. ICE was already operating at capacity, arresting as many migrants as they possibly could, given their resources. So, the frustration from the White House comes from unrealistic expectations."

As Trump ramps up mass deportations, critics like Sandweg warn that prioritizing numbers over safety could let the most dangerous offenders slip through the cracks.

According to Sandweg, focusing on mass arrests strains ICE's limited resources and pulls agents away from pursuing violent criminals and national security threats. This, he argues, ultimately makes the country less safe.

Supporters of Trump's approach, however, contend that a broader enforcement strategy deters illegal immigration and restores the rule of law. They argue that every undocumented individual is violating federal statutes, and removing as many people as possible sends a clear message that the U.S. will not tolerate unlawful entry.

 
some bat crazy stuff liberal Karens white women are posting how to protest in LA. Actually the woman’s name is Wendy who wrote this lol

I actually don’t want deportations. I need to keep my pool and lawn services prices low. The white people would charge me almost double.


some safety tips:


  1. Wear all black. Harder to identify.
  2. ) Dress in layers so you can strip them off as necessary if you get hit with pepper spray/tear gas or need to run/hide.

Make your bottom layer a different color so you're not as easily identified.


  1. ) *DO NOT TAKE YOUR PHONE*. They can identify you being in the area with it. Law enforcement has been known to set up their own mobile cell towers to catch this info.
  2. ) Long hair havers - tight bun or braids pinned up. Keep that **** out of your way and hard for someone to grab.
  3. ) Take a small first aid kit with water, baby shampoo, and bandages. While milk may neutralize pepper spray, it doesn't do **** for tear gas. The baby shampoo has surfactants that will help get that **** off of you and not be as awful on your eyes as other soaps.
  4. ) Write important phone numbers on your arm that you'll need in case of arrest.
  5. ) Umbrellas are great for defending against tear gas canisters. They can also be used to defend against pepper spray.
  6. ) Constriction cone placed over a tear gas canister makes it a lot easier to pour water over it to put it out.
  7. ) If you do take a phone with you, change your settings
 
some bat crazy stuff liberal Karens white women are posting how to protest in LA. Actually the woman’s name is Wendy who wrote this lol

I actually don’t want deportations. I need to keep my pool and lawn services prices low. The white people would charge me almost double.


some safety tips:


  1. Wear all black. Harder to identify.
  2. ) Dress in layers so you can strip them off as necessary if you get hit with pepper spray/tear gas or need to run/hide.

Make your bottom layer a different color so you're not as easily identified.


  1. ) *DO NOT TAKE YOUR PHONE*. They can identify you being in the area with it. Law enforcement has been known to set up their own mobile cell towers to catch this info.
  2. ) Long hair havers - tight bun or braids pinned up. Keep that **** out of your way and hard for someone to grab.
  3. ) Take a small first aid kit with water, baby shampoo, and bandages. While milk may neutralize pepper spray, it doesn't do **** for tear gas. The baby shampoo has surfactants that will help get that **** off of you and not be as awful on your eyes as other soaps.
  4. ) Write important phone numbers on your arm that you'll need in case of arrest.
  5. ) Umbrellas are great for defending against tear gas canisters. They can also be used to defend against pepper spray.
  6. ) Constriction cone placed over a tear gas canister makes it a lot easier to pour water over it to put it out.
  7. ) If you do take a phone with you, change your settings


C’mon, all they want to do is peacefully protest.
 
Probably because the original mission for ICE has shifted from public safety (focusing on actual criminals) to an obsession with increasing deportation numbers that undermines the agency's original mission.

Mission creep.

"This current administration is chaotic. It's moving at breakneck speeds. They're under tremendous pressure," said John Sandweg, who was acting director of ICE under President Barack Obama, from August 2013 to February 2014.

"When you have your officers and agents focused on grabbing as many people as you can. What you're doing is you're diverting the resources that could be focused on those more serious criminal populations, the real problem here," Sandweg said.

Sandweg believes that an obsession with increasing deportation numbers undermines the agency's mission to protect public safety. According to the former director, a more effective strategy would resemble the more targeted enforcement focus of the Obama years.

"If they were utilizing the Obama-era strategies and tactics that we utilized, I would have far less concerns," Sandweg said. He emphasized that a more effective strategy would be to prioritize removing individuals who pose significant public safety threats.

"If you say, hey, our goal is to deport as many people as possible, by definition, what that ends up resulting in is a lower quality of removal. It's just easier and faster to apprehend individuals who don't pose a threat to public safety than it is to apprehend individuals who are dangerous," said Sandweg.

"Gangsters, serious criminals are just harder to find. You know, that's just a population that's more difficult, more challenging to find … in a perfect world, ICE is no longer measured by the number of people that they've deported, but rather upon, you know, the quality of those removals, who they're getting off the streets.

"Unfortunately, the administration's taken an opposite approach."

Sandweg said: "Trump has created this narrative that the agency wasn't working at full capacity under Biden—but that's just not true. ICE was already operating at capacity, arresting as many migrants as they possibly could, given their resources. So, the frustration from the White House comes from unrealistic expectations."

As Trump ramps up mass deportations, critics like Sandweg warn that prioritizing numbers over safety could let the most dangerous offenders slip through the cracks.

According to Sandweg, focusing on mass arrests strains ICE's limited resources and pulls agents away from pursuing violent criminals and national security threats. This, he argues, ultimately makes the country less safe.

Supporters of Trump's approach, however, contend that a broader enforcement strategy deters illegal immigration and restores the rule of law. They argue that every undocumented individual is violating federal statutes, and removing as many people as possible sends a clear message that the U.S. will not tolerate unlawful entry.



But they’re deporting many hard core seamstresses, factory floor supervisors, and cooks. MAGA!!
 
If they truly were serious about illegal immigration, one would think there would be much more of a focus on cracking down on the companies and executives hiring and utilizing illegal labor, since this is where the volume is. I mean, I feel like this would be a no-brainer, as it would allow them to address the problem at scale.

Also, you'd think there would be more focus on red states in general, since they are essentially low hanging fruit and where they'd encounter the least resistance to deporting as many people as possible.

This isn't what we're seeing. So, what they actually seem serious about and more focused on isn't immigration, but deportation theater.
I’d be all in favor of this and would take higher prices to get it done.

Black market labor depresses wages, it’s a huge reason we’re in the economic mess we’re in for low skill workers
 
I’m going to entertain your argument, which by the way, is a little disingenuous. Because, the left would never hold a full court press position on type of law enforcement (with the exception of pushing anti 2A laws). Unless you are are saying we need to do things, like going back to broken windows policing, and arresting every Tom, Dick, and Harry that is carrying a nickel bag of sticks and stems to stop the drug trade. Because we know it ain’t Tom, Dick, and Harry to be the ones that get charged and go to prison.

Your strategy would be an effective strategy for targeting illegals coming here for work. I’m not advocating against it. Yes, I’m in favor of employers being punished for it. However, there are several reasons why it won’t stop illegals that are coming here to commit real crime (prostitution, drugs, trafficking etc). Some of those should be obvious, like overburdening a strained DOJ, and having next to no impact on organized and gang related crime.

BTW, going after the true criminal types is what most people, including myself, are in favor of. Targeting Home Depot migrants is more the way of the hardliners. That is reflected in recent polls as well. But, if ICE is conducting a targeted operation against an illegal with a list of felonies, and they happen to pick up a dozen more illegals in the process and chose to deport them, then, c’est la vie, or more appropriately, adios, I guess.


Why is it disingenuous? The left doesn’t want to enforce laws? What does that even mean? I actually think “the left” (?) would welcome punishing businesses that utilize illegal immigrants to suppress wages and maximize profit for themselves.

Your premise here is based on the assumption that the vast majority of undocumented immigrants are here to commit crimes. However, part of the argument supporting ICE actions is based on the fact that simply being here illegally is a crime worthy of punishment. That we’ve had laws in place that need enforcement. We are now just enforcing laws that have existed. Am I right? I am just suggesting we enforce all those laws related to illegal immigration. Especially, if it is a massive problem that we need to solve. Why only attack it from one angle? Why not enforce the laws?

Businesses that either knowingly or through lack of due diligence hire illegal immigrants absolutely should be punished. If we want to get serious about illegal immigration this is where you start. Otherwise it all seems like political theater to me. I find it odd that Republicans seem to not want to at least enforce these laws.
 
I’d agree with u on that. Dishonestly is the worse crime someone can make. And plagiarizing is a form of dishonesty. Most of us have taken ethics course in one form or another

Something. Like Thomas Hobbs social contract I think. It’s been so long on how he interpreted lying.

You may have taken his post too serious. I think it was dripping with sarcasm.

See, this is the problem with endlessly giving the benefit of the doubt and/or tolerating the crazy people who happen to be "on your side" at the moment.

When people tell you what they are, believe them.

aneftp has repeatedly stated this is what he believes, doubling down over and over. When he says he loves chaos and thinks people should suffer to "learn a lesson" he means it. When he plays false equivalence games (lying = murder is just the latest episode of this series) he means it. When he says criminal tax evasion is OK because corporations enjoy tax code loopholes he means it.


You can extend this to the things Trump says: don't dismiss the crazy **** he says as just hyperbole or trolling. He means it. At least in the moment - who knows what he'll say or believe tomorrow. When he says Newsom should be arrested for the crime of "running for governor" it's absolutely insane and appalling. Don't be complicit by dismissing it as Trump being a harmless troll or a senile old man yelling at clouds.

I try to see the best in people too, but there comes a point at which you just need to believe them when they tell you what they are.
 
See, this is the problem with endlessly giving the benefit of the doubt and/or tolerating the crazy people who happen to be "on your side" at the moment.

When people tell you what they are, believe them.

aneftp has repeatedly stated this is what he believes, doubling down over and over. When he says he loves chaos and thinks people should suffer to "learn a lesson" he means it. When he plays false equivalence games (lying = murder is just the latest episode of this series) he means it. When he says criminal tax evasion is OK because corporations enjoy tax code loopholes he means it.


You can extend this to the things Trump says: don't dismiss the crazy **** he says as just hyperbole or trolling. He means it. At least in the moment - who knows what he'll say or believe tomorrow. When he says Newsome should be arrested for the crime of "running for governor" it's absolutely insane and appalling. Don't be complicit by dismissing it as Trump being a harmless troll or a senile old man yelling at clouds.

I try to see the best in people too, but there comes a point at which you just need to believe them when they tell you what they are.
I believe a lie is a lie. No matter if it’s a white lie or criminal lie.

You guys seem to think something like a little discrimination is ok as long as it not a big discrimination

That’s why I troll people here. I see things as black and white. Don’t give me little grey and try to defend it just because you think lying is ok.
 
Why is it disingenuous? The left doesn’t want to enforce laws? What does that even mean? I actually think “the left” (?) would welcome punishing businesses that utilize illegal immigrants to suppress wages and maximize profit for themselves.

Your premise here is based on the assumption that the vast majority of undocumented immigrants are here to commit crimes. However, part of the argument supporting ICE actions is based on the fact that simply being here illegally is a crime worthy of punishment. That we’ve had laws in place that need enforcement. We are now just enforcing laws that have existed. Am I right? I am just suggesting we enforce all those laws related to illegal immigration. Especially, if it is a massive problem that we need to solve. Why only attack it from one angle? Why not enforce the laws?

Businesses that either knowingly or through lack of due diligence hire illegal immigrants absolutely should be punished. If we want to get serious about illegal immigration this is where you start. Otherwise it all seems like political theater to me. I find it odd that Republicans seem to not want to at least enforce these laws.

The hard nose law and order stance is somewhat disingenuous, coming from the left, I'm not saying you personally. It makes about as much sense as all the leftist tweets I see about all the 2A guys, now is the time to fight, put up or shut up. Just doesn't make sense.

I don't think the vast majority of illegals come here to commit hard crimes, like felonies, though many certainly do. Though it is definitely a valid argument that just being here illegally is a crime. Like I said, I don't disagree with you, enforce the laws we have. I'm not going to be sad to see employers that take advantage of immigrants face fines or even go to jail. I wish the immigration agenda focused on real criminals and a secure border. I'm less than enthused to see the rounding up of day workers at Home Depot, though the administration is well within their right to do so. But I don't think assaulting cops and federal agents is a good way to go about expressing one's displeasure. My poor analogy is like going 5 over the speed limit. I think cops have better things to do than write tickets for five over. I think tactics like going after day workers AND going after employers, like you suggest, are essentially the equivalent of the tickets for 5 over. I'm certainly not going to riot over getting a ticket for 5 over, much less because my neighbor got one.

There is undoubtedly a significant amount of political theater going on. Thats true for Rs and Ds. Its a hot issue that will likely shape midterm elections. I think Rs, for better or worse, are controlling the narrative and coming out on top, for now.
 
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I believe a lie is a lie. No matter if it’s a white lie or criminal lie.

You guys seem to think something like a little discrimination is ok as long as it not a big discrimination

That’s why I troll people here. I see things as black and white. Don’t give me little grey and try to defend it just because you think lying is ok.

True. We live in a black and white world. People and actions are either good or evil. The sooner we recognize the moral equivalence of lying and rape the sooner we can progress to a true utopia. /s
 
True. We live in a black and white world. People and actions are either good or evil. The sooner we recognize the moral equivalence of lying and rape the sooner we can progress to a true utopia. /s
The issue is Utopia doesn’t exist.

People don’t see evil and lies. They think everything should be good. And it will all work out.

I believe in natural evolution. The greatest motivating is to let things sink. There is only so ouxh you can help people. And that’s why I think people need to hit bottom. The chaos I speak of.

Trump is testing the waters with this ice stuff in California. Because newsome and the mayor of LA aren’t doing their job. Both are wrong to be honest. Except you probably think trump is more wrong. (Again that’s me seeing thing as black and white)
 
The issue is Utopia doesn’t exist.

People don’t see evil and lies. They think everything should be good. And it will all work out.

I believe in natural evolution. The greatest motivating is to let things sink. There is only so ouxh you can help people. And that’s why I think people need to hit bottom. The chaos I speak of.

Trump is testing the waters with this ice stuff in California. Because newsome and the mayor of LA aren’t doing their job. Both are wrong to be honest. Except you probably think trump is more wrong. (Again that’s me seeing thing as black and white)

I think Trump 2025 should have listened to Trump 2020. He had better advisors back then who would actually push back against this stuff. (Hard to believe I'm saying that...) Now he just has sycophants and yes-men. The people defending Trump on here for sending in the National Guard and Marines would have defended his actions regardless.

Screenshot_20250610_093656_Reddit~2.jpg
 
I believe a lie is a lie. No matter if it’s a white lie or criminal lie.

You guys seem to think something like a little discrimination is ok as long as it not a big discrimination

That’s why I troll people here. I see things as black and white. Don’t give me little grey and try to defend it just because you think lying is ok.
LOL

Your oft-repeated catch phrase is "I see both sides" which is an explicit claim (dubious though it may be) that you understand perspective, context, and shades of gray.

Don't cower behind phony literalism, and don't pretend anyone here has said "lying is ok".

We can agree on one thing at least - you are a troll. You post inflammatory garbage you know isn't true, deliberately misrepresenting the arguments others make, for the admitted purpose of annoying people.
 
If Utopia does not exist, why are there so many names for it? 😉
Utopia
Nirvana
Eden
Heaven
El Dorado
Paradise
Zion
Elysium
New Jerusalem
Shangri-La
Cockaigne
Lotus Land
Arcadia
Camelot
Empyrean
 
I think Trump 2025 should have listened to Trump 2020. He had better advisors back then who would actually push back against this stuff. (Hard to believe I'm saying that...) Now he just has sycophants and yes-men. The people defending Trump on here for sending in the National Guard and Marines would have defended his actions regardless.

View attachment 404772
Remember all the people in this thread who said we knew what a second Trump term would look like because we saw his first term? (Some are still here.) No matter how many times you or I or anyone else pointed out that the sane people who acted as guardrails were GONE - they just whistled past that graveyard. Some of them still think everything is fine.

First time around, his cabinet was mostly filled with decent people. Granted, he fired many of them and others resigned. His VP was a decent person.

It's different this time and it's incredible so many of them still don't get it.
 
LOL

Your oft-repeated catch phrase is "I see both sides" which is an explicit claim (dubious though it may be) that you understand perspective, context, and shades of gray.

Don't cower behind phony literalism, and don't pretend anyone here has said "lying is ok".

We can agree on one thing at least - you are a troll. You post inflammatory garbage you know isn't true, deliberately misrepresenting the arguments others make, for the admitted purpose of annoying people.
Because I don’t take things seriously most of the times these days. That’s why I say things are games.

I annoy people to make my points and people still try to stick to their high horses even when they are on the wrong side of ideology.
 
Would there be riots in LA if Trump wasn't pursuing an aggressive anti-immigration platform? Interesting hypothetical. Maybe this wouldn't be occurring if he had maintained the Biden status quo. (Moral blame aside)

Seems like the status quo was more deportations. Trump just likes bragging about it obnoxiously

As for the riots, I’m betting that a lot of raids done by the trump controlled ICE will now be met with riots because he in particular is the president and people don’t believe deportations happened before he was president.
 
View attachment 404786

Ugh why would Trump do this?

That’s an interesting and surprisingly deep question to ask when we think about how the mainstream media controls narratives and how we think. If Biden were president, the narrative would be “this chaos is happening on Biden’s watch, thus it’s his fault.” With Trump’s absolute mastery of controlling narratives and creating political theater (it’s the one thing he is a genius at), we have a completely different take on the situation. Trump saw an opportunity to insert himself into a situation by using the military as a bit of political theater and thus was able to spin a narrative in his favor.

The democrats, on the other hand, are completely clueless when it comes to manipulating mainstream media to control a narrative in their favor. The difference in skill in this arena between Trump and everyone else is not even remotely close.
 

Seems like the status quo was more deportations. Trump just likes bragging about it obnoxiously

As for the riots, I’m betting that a lot of raids done by the trump controlled ICE will now be met with riots because he in particular is the president and people don’t believe deportations happened before he was president.

Lmao. That makes it sound worse.

So Trumpian rhetoric is causative for the rioting? If he stopped with the polarizing rhetoric (or never started)... would the protesting decrease?

(Again... moral blame aside)
 
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That’s an interesting and surprisingly deep question to ask when we think about how the mainstream media controls narratives and how we think. If Biden were president, the narrative would be “this chaos is happening on Biden’s watch, thus it’s his fault.” With Trump’s absolute mastery of controlling narratives and creating political theater (it’s the one thing he is a genius at), we have a completely different take on the situation. Trump saw an opportunity to insert himself into a situation by using the military as a bit of political theater and thus was able to spin a narrative in his favor.

The democrats, on the other hand, are completely clueless when it comes to manipulating mainstream media to control a narrative in their favor. The difference in skill in this arena between Trump and everyone else is not even remotely close.
Man do you have that right.

It’s political malpractice to have protestors waving foreign flags while standing near burning vehicles.

I cannot believe organizers thought that non American flags would be a good idea there.

What else does a republican in a swing district need in 2026 than that pic I posted?
 
Lmao. That makes it sound worse.

So Trumpian rhetoric is causative for the rioting? If he stopped with the polarizing rhetoric (or never started)... would the protesting decrease?

(Again... moral blame aside)
I think rhetoric only causes problems when Trump does it, he just causes people to lose control. Almost like his mere presence causes them to become…deranged
 
Man do you have that right.

It’s political malpractice to have protestors waving foreign flags while standing near burning vehicles.

I cannot believe organizers thought that non American flags would be a good idea there.

What else does a republican in a swing district need in 2026 than that pic I posted?

I’m always right.

You’re making an assumption (driven by the mainstream media) that somehow these protesters are political operatives of the democrat party or that they represent the feelings of all people who voted democrat recently. Again, your quote is “it’s political malpractice to have protestors….” as if this was somehow staged by democrats. Yinz guys get all uppity when it is pointed out that the neo-Nazi and white supremacist rallies also often feature Trump paraphernalia, but now you are essentially doing the same thing.

The issue I am bringing up is the complete inability of Democrats to react to and manipulate mainstream media in a way to control narrative. Now, admittedly it is very difficult to control narrative when you don’t have the bully pulpit of the presidency and powers of the federal government.
 
I’m always right.

You’re making an assumption (driven by the mainstream media) that somehow these protesters are political operatives of the democrat party or that they represent the feelings of all people who voted democrat recently. Again, your quote is “it’s political malpractice to have protestors….” as if this was somehow staged by democrats. Yinz guys get all uppity when it is pointed out that the neo-Nazi and white supremacist rallies also often feature Trump paraphernalia, but now you are essentially doing the same thing.

The issue I am bringing up is the complete inability of Democrats to react to and manipulate mainstream media in a way to control narrative. Now, admittedly it is very difficult to control narrative when you don’t have the bully pulpit of the presidency and powers of the federal government.
Most protests are organized by someone. Not necessarily democratic operatives but the protestors always have their own political message.

If the message they’re trying to send is, we love being in America and we are lovely safe people, a Mexican flag on a burning car isn’t a great way to get that across.

It’s not conspiratorial to say protests have organizers and their choices of signage and flags are more intentional than random
 
Most protests are organized by someone. Not necessarily democratic operatives but the protestors always have their own political message.

If the message they’re trying to send is, we love being in America and we are lovely safe people, a Mexican flag on a burning car isn’t a great way to get that across.

It’s not conspiratorial to say protests have organizers and their choices of signage and flags are more intentional than random
So then does that mean Trump (and/or his supporters) are Nazi sympathizers?
 
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That’s an interesting and surprisingly deep question to ask when we think about how the mainstream media controls narratives and how we think. If Biden were president, the narrative would be “this chaos is happening on Biden’s watch, thus it’s his fault.” With Trump’s absolute mastery of controlling narratives and creating political theater (it’s the one thing he is a genius at), we have a completely different take on the situation. Trump saw an opportunity to insert himself into a situation by using the military as a bit of political theater and thus was able to spin a narrative in his favor.

The democrats, on the other hand, are completely clueless when it comes to manipulating mainstream media to control a narrative in their favor. The difference in skill in this arena between Trump and everyone else is not even remotely close.

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So now Trump has spent 134 million dollars sending in the national guard that nobody asked for in order to solve a problem that he created.

Where is DOGE when we need them. But hey, the total combined net worth of the 92 immigrant billionaires listed on the Forbes World's Billionaires list for 2022 is $711 billion. These 92 individuals, who are foreign-born U.S. citizens, represent 13% of the 735 American citizens on the list and hold 15% of all American billionaire wealth.
 
I agree with this take. And things are not helped by the fact that basically all social media today is controlled by the Tech Right. One of the things we learned in 2024 was that folks nowadays get much of their news from social media, and not the traditional outlets of the past. When you run all the social media, it's easier to "control the narrative" and spread propaganda. Even if it's unrepresentative of what's really happening, sites will force feed everyone's social media with what they want you to see, usually the stuff that gets the most views/clicks. Perception becomes reality.
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So then does that mean Trump (and/or his supporters) are Nazi sympathizers?
No, but maybe you and definitely much of America wholesale believes that the neo Nazi party is on the rise in America (it isn’t).

Funny how that goes huh? A couple bad actors ruin an entire movement for the rest of people?

Unfortunately it goes both ways.
 
I agree with this take. And things are not helped by the fact that basically all social media today is controlled by the Tech Right. One of the things we learned in 2024 was that folks nowadays get much of their news from social media, and not the traditional outlets of the past. When you run all the social media, it's easier to "control the narrative" and spread propaganda. Even if it's unrepresentative of what's really happening, sites will force feed everyone's social media with what they want you to see, usually the stuff that gets the most views/clicks. Perception becomes reality. View attachment 404842


Very cool. Now do the calculations for the few city blocks occupied by the World Trade Center compared to the vastness of NYC. Different circumstances but the point is, that method of describing the situation is not useful. Just some mostly peaceful people who were gathered and having fun watching a couple of planes burn. Is that how the media would describe it today?

Additionally, the Dec 7th 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor affected a very small part of 1 of the 137 Islands of Hawai'i. Geographically, a very small part. Also, on Jan 6th, only one building was affected. That is an interesting way to examine the violence in LA and I am really glad that you have shared this information.

It doesn’t matter how many city blocks are affected. If the mayor and governor refuse to take care of the issue, it impacts a far larger area. Seattle and Minneapolis (and others) watched their cities be destroyed slowly over many weeks and did nothing.

Tell us again about how mentally sharp Joe Biden is.
 
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Most protests are organized by someone. Not necessarily democratic operatives but the protestors always have their own political message.

If the message they’re trying to send is, we love being in America and we are lovely safe people, a Mexican flag on a burning car isn’t a great way to get that across.

It’s not conspiratorial to say protests have organizers and their choices of signage and flags are more intentional than random

Ok, so the Republicans choose Nazi and Confederate symbols. Got it.
 
Ok, so the Republicans choose Nazi and Confederate symbols. Got it.
Depends on if you give credit to either side for being organized enough to do it. I tend to think given the size of protests there’s more to the democratic ones but that’s just a guess.

In any case, the images from this protest are much worse for democrats I think than anything in the past couple years.
 
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