Biden Out of Race

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Lab Lover said:
Israel could kill hundreds of thousands of Gaza's in a day with conventional weapons-with zero casualties to their own troops. You'd have to be blind not to see that.
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they've already killed 400,000+ how much more do you want?
 
The Big Beautiful Bill is getting closer to passing.

Here is the immigration enforcement cost status quo:

Screenshot_20250630_134204_Chrome~2.jpg


Here is the proposed immigration enforcement cost increase:

Screenshot_20250630_134220_Chrome~2.jpg



"The bill appears to confirm this more aggressive timeline by mandating the hiring of 10,000 ICE agents for a cost of $8 billion - $800,000 per agent. It costs ICE about $200,000 in compensation per agent per year, meaning the $8 billion is only enough to employ these agents for four years."

How many thousands have died and will continue to die from our cuts to USAID for our new secret police?

Pretty interesting article overall. There's some projections for how much damage the economic loss from the projected mass deportations are going to cost the economy as well.
 
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Lab Lover said:
The highest numbers come from the Gaza health ministry which is run by Hamas. They are under 60K. Where do you get the 400K number?
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this is from harvard and IDF internal numbers, check haaretz, check ehud barak, they are all in agreement that there are war crimes being committed
 
buddababa said:
this is from harvard and IDF internal numbers, check haaretz, check ehud barak, they are all in agreement that there are war crimes being committed
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I am sure that war crimes have been committed. We were discussing your fantasy numbers.
 
buddababa said:
this is from harvard and IDF internal numbers, check haaretz, check ehud barak, they are all in agreement that there are war crimes being committed
Click to expand...
You've been had:

apnews.com

FACT FOCUS: Posts misrepresent report to falsely claim nearly 400,000 Palestinians are missing

Harvard published no such study. This estimate misrepresents a map included in a report by a professor at Israel’s Ben Gurion University that shows the distance between new aid distribution compounds in Gaza and three main populations centers.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
PainInTheAnes said:
You've been had:

apnews.com

FACT FOCUS: Posts misrepresent report to falsely claim nearly 400,000 Palestinians are missing

Harvard published no such study. This estimate misrepresents a map included in a report by a professor at Israel’s Ben Gurion University that shows the distance between new aid distribution compounds in Gaza and three main populations centers.
apnews.com apnews.com
Click to expand...
smotrich is referring to 1.8 million palestinians to be moved, prior to the war, there were 2.2 million

either which way even one human life lost is a tragedy anywhere in the world. the fact that you're arguing that less people have been killed, instead of asking why people continue to be murdered shows you what kind of human you are.
 
Screenshot_20250630_145025_Chrome~2.jpg


How the Big Beautiful Bill is projected to affect resource allotment deciles over the next decade.

The authors chose "resource allotment" as opposed to income to better reflect the projected changes to medicaid and other indirect costs.
 
buddababa said:
smotrich is referring to 1.8 million palestinians to be moved, prior to the war, there were 2.2 million

either which way even one human life lost is a tragedy anywhere in the world. the fact that you're arguing that less people have been killed, instead of asking why people continue to be murdered shows you what kind of human you are.
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Insane moralizing aside, I was pointing out that you're either being fooled into believing something not true or just making things up.

You're welcome.
 
rowsdower88 said:
View attachment 405847

How the Big Beautiful Bill is projected to affect resource allotment deciles over the next decade.

The authors chose "resource allotment" as opposed to income to better reflect the projected changes to medicaid and other indirect costs.
Click to expand...
Yup.

Not to mention the fact that they want to tax renewables (make up 90% of new generation capacity) so that we can "focus on coal"

Maybe he wants to subsidize whale oil for lamps as well
 
UscGhost said:
Yup.

Not to mention the fact that they want to tax renewables (make up 90% of new generation capacity) so that we can "focus on coal"

Maybe he wants to subsidize whale oil for lamps as well
Click to expand...

Blows my mind that they not only want to reduce the incentives but actively increase taxes on renewables.
 
White House instructing the DOJ to prioritize denaturalization of new US citizens.

Who will this effect? Apart from 9 specified criteria, they also list "any" case they deem "to be sufficiently important". Both opaque and arbitrary.

Seems bad.

Screenshot_20250701_003950_Bluesky~2.jpg


Screenshot_20250701_004008_Bluesky~2.jpg
 
I’ve been ignoring this thread, but I’m curious about the MAGA talking points regarding the energy policy in the big bill being discussed. Seems pretty dumb and shortsighted to me, but maybe I’m missing something? Is “pwning the libs” really the only point?
 
GravelRider said:
I’ve been ignoring this thread, but I’m curious about the MAGA talking points regarding the energy policy in the big bill being discussed. Seems pretty dumb and shortsighted to me, but maybe I’m missing something? Is “pwning the libs” really the only point?
Click to expand...
Conservative states dominate clean energy in the USA, so it appears to be working, whatever they’re doing policy wise. The libs have already been owned there.

Not that it matters that much anyway how much wind and solar we do. Most emissions don’t come from the USA and we are actively working on energy independence and nuclear energy. Nuclear shift is where the true clean future will come from, and that’s bipartisan
 
PainInTheAnes said:
Conservative states dominate clean energy in the USA, so it appears to be working, whatever they’re doing policy wise. The libs have already been owned there.

Not that it matters that much anyway how much wind and solar we do. Most emissions don’t come from the USA and we are actively working on energy independence and nuclear energy. Nuclear shift is where the true clean future will come from, and that’s bipartisan
Click to expand...

But the new bill proposes taxing wind, solar, nuclear, and geothermal. If we want abundant and stable energy, why not be agnostic as to where that energy comes from?
 
GravelRider said:
But the new bill proposes taxing wind, solar, nuclear, and geothermal. If we want abundant and stable energy, why not be agnostic as to where that energy comes from?
Click to expand...
Seems like it’s removing tax credits from those projects. If they’re truly viable solutions shouldn’t they stand on their own economically? Personally, I doubt we’ll tax credit our way out of climate change.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
Seems like it’s removing tax credits from those projects. If they’re truly viable solutions shouldn’t they stand on their own economically? Personally, I doubt we’ll tax credit our way out of climate change.
Click to expand...

Just so that we are clear, you are the one framing this around climate change, not me. I’m simply asking why we are purposely trying to make it harder to produce energy. If AI is truly the next “arms race” then we will need all the energy we can get no matter where it comes from. Solar and wind were the fastest growing sources of electricity for the United States and now we are proposing a bill to stymie that energy production? Why?

As you point out above, red states, like Texas, significantly improved and stabilized their electric grids by adding wind and solar. Why wouldn’t we want to continue supporting projects that improved our country’s energy production?

Please answer those questions without using the phrase “climate change.” I’m not talking about climate change. I’m talking about energy and the possibility that we will need a whole heck of a lot more of it as AI development continues.
 
GravelRider said:
Just so that we are clear, you are the one framing this around climate change, not me. I’m simply asking why we are purposely trying to make it harder to produce energy. If AI is truly the next “arms race” then we will need all the energy we can get no matter where it comes from. Solar and wind were the fastest growing sources of electricity for the United States and now we are proposing a bill to stymie that energy production? Why?

As you point out above, red states, like Texas, significantly improved and stabilized their electric grids by adding wind and solar. Why wouldn’t we want to continue supporting projects that improved our country’s energy production?

Please answer those questions without using the phrase “climate change.” I’m not talking about climate change. I’m talking about energy and the possibility that we will need a whole heck of a lot more of it as AI development continues.
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Perhaps removing tax credits will drive efficiency and force these industries to cut costs and be more profitable? And if they’re not then they weren’t good solutions to begin with?

I recall when I get the option to “green” my electric bill, and it’s always the more expensive option, I’m immediately checking “no” every time.

And I know oil gets subsidized, but unfortunately for the rest of the energy industry oil and its production are vital to national security and for the average consumer To function in the economy.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
It looks like an excise tax placed on projects that use certain thresholds of foreign materials, and doesn’t apply to nuclear. Seems reasonable based on anti-china policy goals this and the previous admin had
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So you were wrong. It wasn't just removing tax credits.

Conservatives used to understand that tariffs/trade barriers should really only be used for critical infrastructure because the economic tradeoffs are large.

We're now at the point where we have to protect solar and wind production in the US as critical infrastructure... by increasing the cost to produce them?

I think the anti-China policy goals of the previous administration sucked sometimes too. I think we should be able to buy a BYD car here in America if we want to and it stinks we can't.

Projected increases in home energy prices if this bill passes:

 
rowsdower88 said:
So you were wrong. It wasn't just removing tax credits.

Conservatives used to understand that tariffs/trade barriers should really only be used for critical infrastructure because the economic tradeoffs are large.

We're now at the point where we have to protect solar and wind production in the US as critical infrastructure... by increasing the cost to produce them?

I think the anti-China policy goals of the previous administration sucked sometimes too. I think we should be able to buy a BYD car here in America if we want to and it stinks we can't.

Projected increases in home energy prices if this bill passes:

Click to expand...
Yeah I was wrong on that, I wasn’t up to date on what happened today haha

I think the point is more to hurt china while only kneecapping a relatively small portion of our energy production. But I’m of full belief that the future is nuclear
 
rowsdower88 said:
So you were wrong. It wasn't just removing tax credits.

Conservatives used to understand that tariffs/trade barriers should really only be used for critical infrastructure because the economic tradeoffs are large.

We're now at the point where we have to protect solar and wind production in the US as critical infrastructure... by increasing the cost to produce them?

I think the anti-China policy goals of the previous administration sucked sometimes too. I think we should be able to buy a BYD car here in America if we want to and it stinks we can't.

Projected increases in home energy prices if this bill passes:

Click to expand...
He is a high school bully trying to destroy anything those who don't support him value. No matter the consequences. Monstrous.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
Yeah I was wrong on that, I wasn’t up to date on what happened today haha

I think the point is more to hurt china while only kneecapping a relatively small portion of our energy production. But I’m of full belief that the future is nuclear
Click to expand...

The point is to hurt China while we throttle our own energy supply? All this when even more energy is needed to supply data centers and AI development? Got it. Makes total sense now.

This is probably one of the dumbest policy decisions in over a century and the usual MAGA talking points can’t even bend reality to explain their way out of this one. This is probably magnitudes dumber than even the tariff theatrics.
 
GravelRider said:
The point is to hurt China while we throttle our own energy supply? All this when even more energy is needed to supply data centers and AI development? Got it. Makes total sense now.

This is probably one of the dumbest policy decisions in over a century and the usual MAGA talking points can’t even bend reality to explain their way out of this one. This is probably magnitudes dumber than even the tariff theatrics.
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So what is your claim on why this is occurring? That zero people are interested in this part of the bill besides Donald Trump and Exxon Mobil? That seems farfetched to me, and I don’t think that any compliance with this by republican senators can simply be boiled down to “they’ll primary me if I don’t!”

Senators serve 6 years in their terms, longer than the president does, so the 2024 elects are immune from this influence effectively. So if that’s the argument, I’m not buying it.

China has been preparing to invade Taiwan and is beginning to game it out in earnest recently. My guess is there’s an all out effort to hurt china however possible without outright sanctions.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
So what is your claim on why this is occurring? That zero people are interested in this part of the bill besides Donald Trump and Exxon Mobil? That seems farfetched to me, and I don’t think that any compliance with this by republican senators can simply be boiled down to “they’ll primary me if I don’t!”

Senators serve 6 years in their terms, longer than the president does, so the 2024 elects are immune from this influence effectively. So if that’s the argument, I’m not buying it.

China has been preparing to invade Taiwan and is beginning to game it out in earnest recently. My guess is there’s an all out effort to hurt china however possible without outright sanctions.
Click to expand...

Your guess?

It’s happening because it’s “reverse wokeism.” It’s the same nonsensical culture war policy issues that the right has been accusing the left of. The left has had their share of dumb policy decisions that stem from culture war nonsense, but this is a shining example of an extremely dumb policy decision that is based on the MAGA desire to “pwn the libs.” Grievance based governance will leave the country poorer and less prepared for the future.
 
GravelRider said:
Your guess?

It’s happening because it’s “reverse wokeism.” It’s the same nonsensical culture war policy issues that the right has been accusing the left of. The left has had their share of dumb policy decisions that stem from culture war nonsense, but this is a shining example of an extremely dumb policy decision that is based on the MAGA desire to “pwn the libs.” Grievance based governance will leave the country poorer and less prepared for the future.
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Looks like the excise tax didn’t make the cut
 
rowsdower88 said:
10 million Americans projected to lose insurance with this bill's passage.

www.newsweek.com

Map shows how many could lose health care in each state under tax bill

There has been widespread concern expressed over the impact Trump's "Big Beautiful Bill" could have on American health care.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
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Yep. The ridiculous mathematical tricks they had to use to get this to pass under reconciliation is embarrassing. Adding to the debt in order to cut taxes for the upper echelon. Gutting Medicaid and creating a secret police force. Hope the right is proud of this....
 
buddababa said:
this is from harvard and IDF internal numbers, check haaretz, check ehud barak, they are all in agreement that there are war crimes being committed
Click to expand...
No one knows the exact numbers. But you ignore the vast majority of reports including left leaning to pick out a few rags to base your "facts".

Just lazy, trolling, or trying to push a biased narrative.
 
emergentmd said:
No one knows the exact numbers. But you ignore the vast majority of reports including left leaning to pick out a few rags to base your "facts".

Just lazy, trolling, or trying to push a biased narrative.
Click to expand...
ignore numbers
use common logic
the amount of civilians killed is unacceptable. anyone who thinks this killing is okay is equivalent to the scum of humanity,
 
emergentmd said:
No one knows the exact numbers. But you ignore the vast majority of reports including left leaning to pick out a few rags to base your "facts".

Just lazy, trolling, or trying to push a biased narrative.
Click to expand...

That is correct, no one knows. And that no one includes Israel. Why doesn’t Israel track numbers of dead civilians? They put out acceptable ratios of dead Hamas:civilians. Of course that’s a complete joke when you don’t track the number of dead. Your ratios mean nothing. It’s also a complete joke when you don’t allow international journalists in Gaza.

But it’s hard to track when you indiscriminately carpet bomb entire areas hoping to get 1 Hamas terrorist. There are surely dead children and other civilians still buried in the rubble. They died screaming for their parents who were either already dead or couldn’t get to them buried until tons of rubble. I’m not appealing to emotion - it’s just fact.

Hey, speaking of lazy trolling let’s analogize the situation over there. Let’s say Cuba invaded the US. What would we do??? It’s the same!
 
buddababa said:
ignore numbers
use common logic
the amount of civilians killed is unacceptable. anyone who thinks this killing is okay is equivalent to the scum of humanity,
Click to expand...

Has anyone really, sincerely, truly argued with you that it's good that civilians die in this and other wars? Most people view civilian casualties as an ugly, but unavoidable part of war.

I'm interested to know what you feel would have been an acceptable civilian
death toll for a conflict like this? 1000? 100? Why not 0?

This is the problem when discussing this issue with hyper progressives and/or Palestinian independence people. Nothing of value is ever said, it's always some variation of "war is bad, Israel is bad, this shouldn't be happening, violence is bad, why can't we all just get along?"

Can you put down the emotional appeals for a little bit and talk reasonably about it? It seems you have some sort of distress over it. If it's personal for you I get that, but I sort of doubt it is. You sound like one of those bizarre people who refused to vote for Kamala Harris because of the previous admin's response was viewed as "funding genocide."

The rest of the entire world's politicians outside of Iran doesn't have nearly this amount of disdain for Israel as you do. Why do you think that is?
 
Southpaw said:
That is correct, no one knows. And that no one includes Israel. Why doesn’t Israel track numbers of dead civilians? They put out acceptable ratios of dead Hamas:civilians. Of course that’s a complete joke when you don’t track the number of dead. Your ratios mean nothing. It’s also a complete joke when you don’t allow international journalists in Gaza.

But it’s hard to track when you indiscriminately carpet bomb entire areas hoping to get 1 Hamas terrorist. There are surely dead children and other civilians still buried in the rubble. They died screaming for their parents who were either already dead or couldn’t get to them buried until tons of rubble. I’m not appealing to emotion - it’s just fact.

Hey, speaking of lazy trolling let’s analogize the situation over there. Let’s say Cuba invaded the US. What would we do??? It’s the same!
Click to expand...
I'll answer this with another question: Why should Israel bother to keep track of any of those numbers? If it's as you say and they don't care, why bother quantifying it at all other than for PR purposes?
 
PainInTheAnes said:
Ezra Klein fan? I like his stuff too, a lot of good ideas generally
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I didn't care for his recent transgender episode, nor have I read his book yet, but I usually like his conversations.

His ideas seem to be gaining traction with the liberal wing of the party. They're using his "Abundance Agenda" verbiage in their press releases now.

Edit: It also seems like the solar and wind tax didn't make it into the final bill. So that is something.
 
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Ezra is best in business. And he is someone with an actual influence on the party which makes him an important figure on the left.

The Bulwark is another great podcast. Former Bush/ McCain republican who turned never-Trumper and leads the MAGA resistance movement from centre-right. Great guests and interesting discussions.
 
Southpaw said:
Hey, speaking of lazy trolling let’s analogize the situation over there. Let’s say Cuba invaded the US. What would we do??? It’s the same!
Click to expand...
If Cuba invades the US, kill thousands of Americans, and took hundreds of hostages then I would have no issue taking out the Cuban government at all costs.
 
buddababa said:
ignore numbers
use common logic
the amount of civilians killed is unacceptable. anyone who thinks this killing is okay is equivalent to the scum of humanity,
Click to expand...
If North Korea launched a nuke into Honolulu, would you disagree with the US launching Nukes at Pyongyang killing thousands of civilians?

If you disagree, then what would you do? If you agree, then are you equivalent to the scum of humanity?
 
PainInTheAnes said:
The rest of the entire world's politicians outside of Iran doesn't have nearly this amount of disdain for Israel as you do. Why do you think that is?
Click to expand...
Funny that most of the middle east is rooting for Israel. Their silence is deafening.
 
The BBB is adding a $35 copay for medicaid patients per treatment for dialysis. So an additional ~$105/wk to stay alive (~$5k/yr).

www.kidney.org

Big Beautiful Bill is Downright Ugly for Kidney Patients

www.kidney.org www.kidney.org

On the bright side, the bill eliminates the $200 registration fee for silencers, short barreled rifles, and short barreled shotguns. So if you're looking at saving some long term costs, the GOP is giving you an out.
 
rowsdower88 said:
The BBB is adding a $35 copay for medicaid patients per treatment for dialysis. So an additional ~$105/wk to stay alive (~$5k/yr).

www.kidney.org

Big Beautiful Bill is Downright Ugly for Kidney Patients

www.kidney.org www.kidney.org

On the bright side, the bill eliminates the $200 registration fee for silencers, short barreled rifles, and short barreled shotguns. So if you're looking at saving some long term costs, the GOP is giving you an out.
Click to expand...
Ugly stuff. Doesn’t ESRD qualify you as disabled and therefore you can go on Medicare? I’m surprised there’s 300,000 dialysis patients on Medicaid if that’s the case so maybe I’m mistaken.
 
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