What crimes were they accused of? Pardons wont save you from state crimes.. yet nothing
Checkmate
Biden Out of Race
- Thread starter DirtDocMD
- Start date
Checkmate
Why do a blanket pardon? Without any criminal charges. You got to be the most democratic /biden homer living under a rock to believe what you write sometimes.
Name me any governor or president who has ever pardon someone not charged with a crime?
I can think of the most famous pardon of all time….gerald ford’s pardon of Richard Nixon….even though he was never charged with a crime. ….yeah… the homer republican will keep
Saying Nixon didn’t commit and crime ….and you can believe that all you want all
The Republican homies will
Say.
What difference does this make in terms of what I said? The right believes he was acting as a liberal. The left feels otherwise. So, unless you know this guy, I am not going to accept you as an expert on
his thought process. There are Log Cabin Republicans. I assume they include people with live styles people would assume to be liberal, but obviously they are conservative. Unless you can show we where this guy says he is a liberal, I stand by what I said, and I will hold judgment until more information comes from the horse’s mouth.
What crimes did the pardon save them from?. Pardons dont prevent state criminal charges.
He lived in Florida. If, as you apparently believe, a state AG can charge anyone with anything at anytime, why no charges in Florida? Trumps home state of all places
Oh snap. Guess can't charge someone for nothing after all
Maybe its because Trump is uniquely petty, corrupt, vindictive and clearly has no respect for the justice system. That seems to be the likely reason for a blanket pardon.
Otherwise we would be seeing charges in Florida
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Your reason, was the islamists commit more?
Any studies to back up your conclusions that left commits more violence than the right?
U need overzealous prosecutors from each locality. Remember Alvin Bragg in 2019 said he wanted to go after Trump. That’s an overzealous prosecutor. Don’t you think?
You keep going back to can’t charge someone for doing nothing at all. If Biden brother and other family members were so innocent. Why issue the pardon? No matter how overzealous Trump would be in going after them. Like u said. Can’t charge someone if the done nothing at all? Right? If they didnt do anything. No matter how aggressive Trump is. Than no pardon is needed.
Lol. Who said Bragg was overzealous? So you are saying that it just happened to be a coincidence that Trump committed 34 felonies + an overzealous prosecutor + a biased jury and judge? Thats a big conspiracy pill to swallow
Or
Trump committed the crimes and a prosecutor did his job.
You seem to be skipping over the fact that a pardon doesnt help with state crimes. And given the fact that Trump has displayed a clear willingness to exercise his influence over his maga buddies in state governments, there is no reason to suspect he wouldnt do the same and push the Florida AG to be "overzealous"
Unless . Drumroll..there was no crime
So you can continue to imagine some hypothetical crimes if it helps you sleep at night...but so far...you got nothing to back up your claims.
U need overzealous prosecutors from each locality. Remember Alvin Bragg in 2019 said he wanted to go after Trump. That’s an overzealous prosecutor. Don’t you think?
You keep going back to can’t charge someone for doing nothing at all. If Biden brother and other family members were so innocent. Why issue the pardon? No matter how overzealous Trump would be in going after them. Like u said. Can’t charge someone if the done nothing at all? Right? If they didnt do anything. No matter how aggressive Trump is. Than no pardon is needed.
Who says Trump is going after Biden family in states. You are clearly trying to change the situation
State vs federal crimes.
Trump just needs any conviction he can get. And federal is the jurisdiction he can exert the most power over.
Trump is a big target since he does business in New York State to 5-6 decades now
As for hypothetical crimes. Why is Biden parodon hypothetical crimes? Ask yourself. If there is no crime. Don’t pardon your brother. Oops. He saw his son charged in FEDERAL court. That’s what Biden could control. So he pardons his family of FEDERAL CRIMES.
So if no members of the Biden family committed no crimes just like Richard Nixon committed no crimes? Right? That’s what you are saying.
A prosecutor wanting to prosecute criminals is part of the job description. That's not overzealous
I think you aren't understanding basic logic.
You said that Bidens family must have committed crimes, because he preemptively pardoned them.
Ok. So then why weren't they charged with state crimes? Should be easy to do since you believe they are guilty. I think i have asked you this like 4 times now. Stay focused
You aren’t understanding basic logic. Just like Richard Nixon getting a federal pardon. Why didn’t states go after Nixon? They could have Even Washington DC (the jurisdiction watergate happened in) charge Nixon with some crime after ford pardon him. Washington DC has its own individual separate court system. He could have been charged with some bs misdemeanors laws in Washington DC for obstruction but Washington DC decided not to charge him. And yes I know dc laws. Because it’s a special district where misdemeanors are handled by the district and not the feds.
Why wasn’t Trump charged in federal court for similar tax stormy Daniels tax deduction instead of state courts.
Because it’s up to each individual federal or state prosecutor to go after Trump (see federal prosecutors jack smith for example) going after Trump for different matter overzealous
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There are no quality studies that back up one side is more violent than the other. That is the entire point.
Using murder as an endpoint is problematic because the incidence is exceedingly low, resulting in underpowered studies that can grossly inflate the effect size. This is where 9/11 factors in. One event that resulted in a lot of murders doesn’t really paint the whole picture of Islamic extremism in the us compared to left and right extremism. The data gets skewed toward the few events that result in a lot of deaths. In addition, including non ideological murder is problematic for obvious reasons.
Other useful metrics would be looking at the economic and societal costs of political violence, as well as the changing attitudes toward its acceptance. All of which have their own problems in how that data is collected and interpreted.
For example, if someone wanted to quantify the estimated 3.5 billion in economic damages caused by leftist violence from the Floyd and anti ICE protests in terms of human life equivalents, we would see a much different and skewed picture of violence using “deaths” as our endpoint. Using the government defined value of statistical life of ~12 million then the left would be responsible for an extra 290 “death equivalents” since 2020. Obviously problematic and controversial, but an example of how the data is basically useless in quantifying left/right violence.
What IS concerning is the trend. Attitudes changing toward the acceptance of political violence, the increase of politically motivated violence in protests and riots, and now the increase in very public assassinations. The left has a violence problem.
TL;DR
if you torture the numbers enough they will tell you whatever you want. There are no quality studies answering the question what side is more politically violent. The changing attitudes toward acceptance of political violence should be concerning.
Nice try at least. But as you hinted, Washington DC is not a state. Its a federal district..so experts agreed that any charges against nixon would fall under the fed pardon. And, a Washington DC grand jury had drafted charges against Nixon, but those got discarded once the pardon took effect
So in your example
Nixon
President interested in pursuing crimes? No
Were crimes pardoned? Yes. Because DC is federal and fed pardon applies to those federal crimes
Crimes committed? Yes
The fed pardon negates the possibility of charges in Nixons case
Biden
Trump interested in pursuing investigations of enemies and political opponents? Absolutely
Florida has jurisdiction and a staunch ally of trump? Yup
Pardon? Nope, doesnt apply to state crimes
Crimes committed? Oh darn, that's where it falls apart. No crime committed
In the end, Florida could and certainly would charge Bidens family, IF crimes were committed. Especially considering that you seem certain that crimes were committed, it would be slam dunk
Thats assuming the BLM/and ICE were political and 100% leftist..which of course..they weren't.
BLM movements were anti police brutality first, especially since they happened after police brutality
So in the end, both the right and left have issues with violence.
Homeland security and the FBI consider the right to be a bigger concern..so ill go with their assessments
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Like I said, lots of ways to spin the data.
Although at some point you have to be honest with yourself and call something what it is. BLM is a leftist organization. The guys burning Tesla dealerships are leftists, the guys assaulting ICE agents are leftists. Mangione and Robinson were motivated by leftist ideology.
No doubt. But the right has arguably been static over the past 30 years.
Depends on which administration you ask, doesn’t it?
Static? As in they are committed their usual high number?
Yes, and white supremacists, proud boys, etc are far right
Per AI..
Major right-wing extremist acts since 2014 include numerous ideologically motivated mass shootings, attacks on infrastructure, and violent plots driven by xenophobia, white supremacy, and anti-government sentiments. The past decade has seen an increase in far-right activity, particularly from self-radicalized individuals who use online platforms to spread their views.
North America
United States
Charleston church shooting (2015): White supremacist Dylann Roof killed nine Black parishioners during a Bible study at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church.
Tree of Life synagogue shooting (2018): In the deadliest antisemitic attack in U.S. history, a gunman killed 11 worshippers at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh.
El Paso Walmart shooting (2019): An anti-immigrant gunman killed 23 people at a Walmart store.
Buffalo supermarket shooting (2022): A white supremacist killed 10 people at a supermarket in a predominantly Black neighborhood.
Colorado Springs LGBTQ+ nightclub shooting (2022): A shooter killed five people and injured more than 25 others at Club Q.
Infrastructure targeting: Between 2020 and 2022, right-wing extremists targeted infrastructure, including power grids and telecommunications systems.
January 6th Capitol attack (2021): A violent mob of right-wing extremists and other individuals assaulted the U.S. Capitol in an attempt to overturn the 2020 presidential election.
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Yes that’s exactly what I mean. They commit their normal “high” number.
I’ve already addressed your whataboutism examples ad nauseam.
Well once the left reaches the levels that the right is currently and historically been at...then ill worry about them.
For now, I'll chalk it up to the fact that the rise is correlating with the current administrations extremely hostile and provocative attitudes towards minorities, poor, immigrants, etc.
Once the next admin comes in, i expect it to simmer back down to background levels. After all, the right has been consistently violent regardless of the administration...so i dont expect them to change.
The left violence issue has only popped up as a response to Trump/maga
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The real story of that graph is that 63% of democrats, 65% of independents, and 84% of Republicans presume to think they know what that guy was thinking and why he did it.
I don't know if that's really a significant difference across the political spectrum, but it sure is a whole lot of people (bothsidesbothsides!) who had a whole lot of confidence in their take.
Scroll back a dozen or so pages in this thread to when the event was fresh, and the hot takes were ... predictable. Professional hit. Libtards! First shot in a new Civil War. Leftist violence vs right wing violence.
It turned out to be a guy who doesn't really fit neatly into any political box.
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Ah. So you would have been one if those political violence is sometimes justified/ always justified respondents.
Yes, in the end, hate incites and inspires nutjobs.
The hate can be self generated (in the case of white supremacists for example) or it can be generated as a response to oppression, both perceived and real, as it has been in response to anti trans rights, anti immigrant, anti gay, anti minority, etc
The current admin has targeted those groups with policy and rhetoric, which tends to inspire retaliation.
Events such as Rodney King in the 90s, and george floyd are often inspired by particularly impactful acts (as most social unrest is). Police brutality tends to generate alot of unrest in the communities that have multiple generations of police brutality
That would be incorrect.
Justified means there is a legitimate or good reason for something to happen. For example violence is justified if, for example, its in order to someones life. Self defense, etc
I simply detailed that there is a cause and effect relationship. If the goal of society is to reduce violence, then cause and effect should always be studied. I never said the cause or effect was justified
That's a common tactic used by maga to distract from evaluating the root cause of issues
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So what do you guys think, Did Homan take a bribe, or was this a set-up from Antifa to try to trick him for political theater?
apple.news
Trump aide Homan accepted $50,000 in bribery sting operation, sources say — Reuters
President Donald Trump's border czar Tom Homan accepted a $50,000 bag of cash from an undercover FBI agent last year in a since-closed U.S. Justice Department bribery investigation, two sources familiar with the matter said on Sunday.
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Well it’s fair to ask (one could even say assume) again, given the trend of increasing tolerance and justification of political violence from the left.
I’ll take that to mean you agree political violence is bad, though I’m not sure how you reconcile that with the fact they you aren’t worried about it from the left until it reaches some level of violence you arbitrarily choose to define it by.
Yes political violence is bad.
I reconcile it because homeland security and FBI have consistently and routinely listed violence from the right as a more significant threat. So i trust the experts assessments, especially when they have been consistent and time tested.
I dont worry about it, as i expect the violence to decrease once the current administration is gone. As the current admin has inspired it (via stochastic violence) whole also claiming victimization. That approach tends to encourage violence from both sides, hence the current situation
- Demonization of opponents: The central mechanism of stochastic violence is the repeated dehumanization and vilification of a targeted person or group. Scholars and experts on extremism state that this can lead some individuals to believe that violence against the target is justified or necessary.
- Examples cited by critics: Instances cited by observers and political violence experts as potential examples of stochastic violence include:
- January 6th Capitol attack: Commentators and legal experts have pointed to former President Donald Trump's rhetoric leading up to and on January 6, 2021, as a prime example. His repeated false claims of a stolen election and calls to "fight like hell" are argued to have inspired supporters to storm the Capitol building.
- Attacks on government figures: Violent threats and attacks have followed rhetoric from prominent figures. After the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago in 2022, an armed Trump supporter attacked an FBI office in Cincinnati. This followed incendiary language from Trump and allies, such as Representative Paul Gosar, who called to "destroy the FBI".
- Attacks on judges and prosecutors: Following Trump's indictments, there was an increase in threats against law enforcement, judges, and prosecutors involved in the cases.
- Attacks targeting minorities: The 2015 shooting at a church in Charleston, SC, was preceded by the killer reading racist propaganda from the Council of Conservative Citizens, an organization with roots in the white supremacist movement. The 2022 Buffalo mass shooter, who targeted a Black community, cited the "Great Replacement" conspiracy theory, which has been amplified on right-wing media.
- Plausible deniability: Those accused of using this rhetoric can maintain plausible deniability because they don't explicitly command supporters to commit violence. The violence is individually unpredictable, allowing the inciter to disavow responsibility when attacks occur.
- Media and online platforms: Experts note that media outlets and online platforms frequented by the right, particularly social media, facilitate the spread and amplification of this rhetoric. This creates an echo chamber effect that can radicalize individuals and lead to offline violence.
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What would seem insane to the moderately left, center, moderately right, and far right is a very real possibility.
The combination of Trump and ai, that being,
Tax breaks that favor the rich,
Tariffs that disproportionately hurt the poor,
Ai Boom investments that favor the rich, and the
Ai Boom that replaces the jobs of the poor,
leads to an exponential explosion in the already large wealth gap, and you could be looking at something like,
Hello Mamdani/AOC 2028
Don't take this lightly;
the stars are lining up.
The combination of Trump and ai, that being,
Tax breaks that favor the rich,
Tariffs that disproportionately hurt the poor,
Ai Boom investments that favor the rich, and the
Ai Boom that replaces the jobs of the poor,
leads to an exponential explosion in the already large wealth gap, and you could be looking at something like,
Hello Mamdani/AOC 2028
Don't take this lightly;
the stars are lining up.
Trump at Kirks funeral
He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them. That’s where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent, and I don't want the best for them. I'm sorry. I am sorry, Erika. But now Erika can talk to me and the whole group, and maybe they can convince me that that's not right, but I can't stand my opponent."
Encouraging peace and love for his fellow man? Just the type of stuff people should hear when the nation should be trying to unite
He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them. That’s where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent, and I don't want the best for them. I'm sorry. I am sorry, Erika. But now Erika can talk to me and the whole group, and maybe they can convince me that that's not right, but I can't stand my opponent."
Encouraging peace and love for his fellow man? Just the type of stuff people should hear when the nation should be trying to unite
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Not sure if you realize, but you keep repeating yourself. Please stop it, cuz it's getting annoying. We get it. You think the pardon likely was down because someone in the Biden family committed a yet undiscovered crime.
That's certainly possible, but does not serve as definite proof. It's just as likely he did it to prevent Trump from targeting his family on some which hunt, just as he did with the NY attorney general.
Re: state charges. Trump was facing legitimate felony charges in Georgia before getting elected president. The prosecutor also created her own drama, which didn't help.
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Trump is vile.
We've all known that for more than a decade. Some people just don't care.
He's delighted Kirk is dead. It's a media distraction from him and Epstein, his criminal activity, his economic failures, his foreign policy failures, the dark side of his immigration policy failures (actually touted to be "success" by the newspeak crowd), and most important it's fuel for him to rile up his base and stoke the fires some more.
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Talk about an about-face...
www.nytimes.com
Jimmy Kimmel’s Show to Return to ABC on Tuesday Night
The network’s removal of Mr. Kimmel’s show last week almost immediately morphed into a flashpoint for free speech in America.
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Only minutes before Erika Kirk took the stage and forgave her husband’s killer in front of a national audience. Probably the biggest and most graceful move she could have made to unite rather than divide. NOTHING in the Charlie Kirk memorial sans maybe a one liner from Trump did anything to sow division or discord.
Yup. Abs thats why stochastic violence is effective. We all know who he means when he says opponents. But it give him plausible deniability.
Trump is vile.
We've all known that for more than a decade. Some people just don't care.
He's delighted Kirk is dead. It's a media distraction from him and Epstein, his criminal activity, his economic failures, his foreign policy failures, the dark side of his immigration policy failures (actually touted to be "success" by the newspeak crowd), and most important it's fuel for him to rile up his base and stoke the fires some more.
Meanwhile it encourages violence from the radical left, who may interpret it as "fighting back" and the radical right inteprets it as Trump is backing their cause.
And that's why we have more violence
Thats cool. Nothing to do with Trump
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Huh.
It's almost like the president of the United States making a personal appearance and speech has an outsized effect on how an event is perceived.
Maybe if they wanted a tone of reconciliation and grace, they could've not invited him.
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Wait, ppl still listen to Benny Johnson? Wasn’t he found to be Russian mouthpiece and paid directly by RT?
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Is this really the best you got 🤣
You can't refute the message so next best is go after the messenger? Real clown stuff.
He is arguably the stupidest MAGA on youtube. Never understand why that guy has almost 6 mil subscribers.
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Eh. His comments were reported everywhere
Trump hails Charlie Kirk as martyr to thousands at memorial service
The US president broke with the forgiveness message of Kirk's widow, Erika, to say he hated his opponents.
www.bbc.com
But as i said, his hateful comments will tend to cause thoughts of retribution from the radical left and further embolden the radical right.
If you are as concerned as about political violence as you say, then you should be concerned about the president making provocative comments like this
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You ... think ... the only place comments made by the President Of The United States are talked about is far left Reddit, and here? C'mon.
It was nice to see the rest of the event was less, well, bitter.
I'll give Charlie Kirk some credit - he freely and politely talked to people with opposing viewpoints, in public, in their own communities. He was probably among the best of what the right had to offer, a stark contrast to Trump and his MAGA cult. He said some repugnant **** as rhetorical devices and to stir up his followers, but whatever else he believed, he believed in free exchange of ideas and arguing with people. I can respect that.
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Yeah real clown stuff 🤡
Had nothing to do with the message. It just amazes me who ppl follow and where ppl get their news/opinions on both the right and the left.
Lines are always drawn in the sand with me and usc and Rowe. No one will give an inch in these arguments.
At least you understand the pardon was likely for Biden to cover any stupid small crime (like many of us who are self employed) on our taxes. Any hint of a potential uncovering of misdeed can lead to stupid charges.
Biden just wanted to eliminate that possibility especially after what happened to Hunter Biden. And I've always been on record I thought Hunter Biden conviction was BS just like I think all of these stupid trump charges. Hunter Biden was a witch hunt with conservatives sniffing around to finally find something on Hunter to charge him. That's what liberals do with Trump except his got a far bigger list of business ventures to comb through and nail him with.
People like to gloat on Trump's "conviction" of 34 felonies. We all know those were an idiotic charges and trial "just to get him". And in the end, that felony conviction likely gets thrown (as the appeals judges are already hinting they will move it to federal court) out after wasting 20 million dollars. Just like the 500 million dollar fine was thrown out. And you have to known the spine on the NY attorney's office after the 500 million dollar fine was thrown out....it was "well we won". We got a civil verdict even through it won't be 500 million. That's the witch hunt.
As for state charges...at the end of the day, it's really up to a prosecutor to want to pursue a charge or not. We have discussed this many times "prosecutor discretion".....depends if the prosecutor feels like going after someone. Like I mention in response to USC statement that Biden's family can still be prosecuted in state courts because a federal pardon doesn't protect against state charges...it just depends if some over zealous prosecutor wants to waste tax payer money going after some no name Jim Biden....it's likely not even worth it because they want to go after the big dogs. And I mentioned Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford's pardon. Any local Washington DC prosecutor could have gone after Nixon on local obstruction charges (and I mentioned DC is a federal district) but misdemeanor charges can be brought up locally. Prosecutors likely didn't think it was worth the effort to go after Nixon after a Federal pardon by Ford. And there was clear evidence in Nixon's case of obstruction of justice. Why didn't local DC courts go after Nixon? Ask yourself why? Because it was not worth it for them. Nixon had resigned already.
And yes. the Georgia case is a mess, a sideshow with the prosecutor banging her boyfriend and giving him a 750K 1099 money contract to go after Trump while giving others a much lower compensation in the 150K range 1099. Just shows you how slimy prosecutors can be. Not all of them are angels. They all want to make a name for themselves. And you want to talk about MAGA loyalists. The left wingers in Atlanta still re elected Fanni Willis in November 2024 even after all her personal drama and inappropriate behavior. This pretty much proves the left wingers don't care about morals of an individual as long as they are on the left wingers side. Just the same as the right wingers are on the conservative republican side.
Trump is a showman. You gotta know this now. He's been doing this for a very long time.Eh. His comments were reported everywhere
Trump hails Charlie Kirk as martyr to thousands at memorial service
The US president broke with the forgiveness message of Kirk's widow, Erika, to say he hated his opponents.
But as i said, his hateful comments will tend to cause thoughts of retribution from the radical left and further embolden the radical right.
If you are as concerned as about political violence as you say, then you should be concerned about the president making provocative comments like this
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Eh. His comments were reported everywhere
Trump hails Charlie Kirk as martyr to thousands at memorial service
The US president broke with the forgiveness message of Kirk's widow, Erika, to say he hated his opponents.
But as i said, his hateful comments will tend to cause thoughts of retribution from the radical left and further embolden the radical right.
If you are as concerned as about political violence as you say, then you should be concerned about the president making provocative comments like this
Right. I get it now. Trump made them do it. He’s responsible for all the violence, on both sides!
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Jimmy Kimmel Back on air tomorrow…the left wingers all up in arms even with his insensitive remark (freedom of speech they say)
Yet the same Disney people suspended conservative curt schilling (former major league pitcher) 10 years ago for insensitive remarks about Muslims and nazis.
So the left cheers when a conservative curt schilling is finally fired a year later for making more insensitive remarks about transgender bathrooms.
What Disney did was censor schilling for speaking in conservative ideology.
It’s a two way street people.
Yet the same Disney people suspended conservative curt schilling (former major league pitcher) 10 years ago for insensitive remarks about Muslims and nazis.
So the left cheers when a conservative curt schilling is finally fired a year later for making more insensitive remarks about transgender bathrooms.
What Disney did was censor schilling for speaking in conservative ideology.
It’s a two way street people.
He did a pretty good job inciting the violence on jan 6.
But hey, sounds like you think that leaders have no influence on the actions of their followers and their supposed enemies. That would contrary to all of human history.
But your viewpoint is an example of why stochastic violence works. Trump uses hateful language that's vague enough that it gives him (and his maga defenders) plausible deniability but at the same times, serves to embolden and enrage.
Literally playing out in real time
Its because the government(fcc) clamped down on free speech with Kimmel. Which is expressly forbidden by the 1st amendment (and FCCs stated guidelines). Ted Cruz and other Republicans had said that as well.
This has been pointed out a dozen times now. Now sure why ots hard to understand. Free speech is protected from government censorship (or coercion) in the case of Kimmel
Schilling got fired because he's an idiot and Disney is a private business. Government didn't get involved. Free speech does not protect you from consequences within a private business
Say what? It’s the same company!
Disney pulled Kimmel for his idiotic incentive remarks. Something Kimmel or his wife approved and or wrote!
Disney gave schilling another chance than fired him
Kimmel gets another chance as well
To add. Schilling likely doesn’t get fired in the new anti woke culture of 2025.
2016 was starting of the woke transgender bathroom era.
Abc pulled kimmel because the FCC threatened Disney. Then republicans as well as Dems came out and blasted the FCC for suppression of free speech. Then ABC brought him back.
If ABC didn't like Kimmel, then they wouldn't have brought him back (like Gina carano, or schilling)
Its really not hard
