Bill introduced to eliminate PSLF

[GoldenFish]

Did anyone not see this coming?

“The GOP bill to reauthorize the Higher Education Act, introduced by Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.) on Friday, would eliminate the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, which erases student debt for those who work for qualifying employers after making payments for 10 years.”

GOP bill would eliminate student loan forgiveness for public service

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[Osteoth]

Did anyone not see this coming?

“The GOP bill to reauthorize the Higher Education Act, introduced by Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.) on Friday, would eliminate the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, which erases student debt for those who work for qualifying employers after making payments for 10 years.”

GOP bill would eliminate student loan forgiveness for public service

The GOP is a combination of the very wealthy and those who are one-issue voters on generally unpopular issues (guns, immigration, abortion, evangelicalism). The very wealthy want to increase the value of their wealth by making proper education a scarce resource, therefore making those who are able to attain it significantly better off than those who are not. This is juxtaposed by the one-issue people who either don't care or are unable to comprehend that their place in society will be devalued by this change.

I really do wonder what is the mentality of the one-issue voter. How can one issue be so important that it trumps interest in the ability to live (healthcare) and prosper (economy)?

 

[WingedOx]

Edit: I misread an article about this from last week about IBR... my bad.

 

[SunsFun]

The GOP is a combination of the very wealthy and those who are one-issue voters on generally unpopular issues (guns, immigration, abortion, evangelicalism). The very wealthy want to increase the value of their wealth by making proper education a scarce resource, therefore making those who are able to attain it significantly better off than those who are not. This is juxtaposed by the one-issue people who either don't care or are unable to comprehend that their place in society will be devalued by this change.

I really do wonder what is the mentality of the one-issue voter. How can one issue be so important that it trumps interest in the ability to live (healthcare) and prosper (economy)?

IMO, those that support the current state of events are primarily driven by fear, hate, and jealously of people who aren’t like them. It’s all rationalized and concealed as self-interest.

 

[Wilf]

The GOP is a combination of the very wealthy and those who are one-issue voters on generally unpopular issues (guns, immigration, abortion, evangelicalism).

Gun rights are not unpopular. Neither are some restrictions on abortions.

The rest (unquoted portion) of your posting was laughable.

 

[educ8r]

Not just PSLF, which no one should have ever been counting on, but also IBR

Can you please provide source? I've been looking but can't find anything that references IBR specifically.

 

[zero0]

Wasn't this year the first year people became eligible for PSLF? Has anyone successfully reaped the benefits of this?

 

[Perrotfish]

They would still have an income based repayment, but it would be 15 percent of.your income, and the loans.woukd go away when you have paid as much as you would have paid under a 10 year plan. There is no number of payments that would make the loan go away if you don't hit that number.

They are also talking about a hard cap on loans to graduate school of 150000 per borrower, which could arguably cut the cost of medical school in half overnight

 

[SunsFun]

They would still have an income based repayment, but it would be 15 percent of.your income, and the loans.woukd go away when you have paid as much as you would have paid under a 10 year plan. There is no number of payments that would make the loan go away if you don't hit that number.

They are also talking about a hard cap on loans to graduate school of 150000 per borrower, which could arguably cut the cost of medical school in half overnight

I don’t see how it would be feasible for any medical school to just cut their tuition in order to accommodate a hypothetical 150k cap. If this was to happen, a more likely outcome would be people going to the cheapest schools they can go to and medicine becoming even more the field for the rich and their children.

 

[JP2740]

The GOP is a combination of the very wealthy and those who are one-issue voters on generally unpopular issues (guns, immigration, abortion, evangelicalism). The very wealthy want to increase the value of their wealth by making proper education a scarce resource, therefore making those who are able to attain it significantly better off than those who are not. This is juxtaposed by the one-issue people who either don't care or are unable to comprehend that their place in society will be devalued by this change.

I really do wonder what is the mentality of the one-issue voter. How can one issue be so important that it trumps interest in the ability to live (healthcare) and prosper (economy)?

Lol this was going to happen no matter who was in power. You’re naive if you think that anyone in power isn’t operating out of self interest.

 

[Lucca]

Wasn't this year the first year people became eligible for PSLF? Has anyone successfully reaped the benefits of this?

If there is anyone, probably like 5 ppl since IIRC September wouldve been the first month you could claim it.

I think projecting MD tuition to decrease as a result of grad school loans being capped is wishful thinking. Schools might be encouraged to direct more of their resources towards grants and aid for their students, but I think the far more likely scenario is just that med school classes become suddenly much wealthier overnight.

The bill also ends work-study for grad students.

The overall goal of the bill is obviously to make the ballooning student debt in the country more profitable for the debtholders (banks) (no more forgiveness of debt, higher guaranteed payments, people holding the debt are more likely to have the money to pay it off, etc.; increased likelihood of payment of debt = makes holding debt a more attractive investment; more people taking out private loans that charge higher interest) since the reality is that student debt is a bubble that is bound to burst one of these days if it does not become more profitable/a better investment instrument. It's the wrong bandaid for a problem that shouldnt exist to begin with (higher and prof ed shouldnt cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to individuals) and there's nothing you can do to the debt market that will totally reverse the overall tendency for the rate of profit to fall in a bubble since the hard truth is that most degrees obtained are not truly worth the money you paid for them.

 

[68PGunner]

Not just PSLF, which no one should have ever been counting on, but also IBR, which is going to completely f-ck over medical residents.

Elections have consequences.

Wouldn't PAYE and REPAYE be available for current borrowers consider that they're all written in their MPNs? All the knowledgeable people told me that there will be a grandfather clause, or it will be a case for one of the biggest lawsuits in the history of this nation.

 

[arcus]

Lol this was going to happen no matter who was in power. You’re naive if you think that anyone in power isn’t operating out of self interest.

My spouse told me she was disgusted how the GOP Tax Bill in the US Senate passed by giving special favors to reticent Senators so that they would vote for it, essentially quid pro quo.

Hillary Clinton, US Secretary of State vis a vis pay for play Clinton Global Initiative

The new normal in US Congress legislation is using Americans as an excuse to help us, all the while our politicians enrichening themselves and screwing Americans. Eliminating PSLF Program is a travesty

I know a few physicians who had their med school loans reduced because they worked on Tribal Reservations out West and other types of PSLF Program eligible organizations. I was hoping to tap this avenue

 

[deleted128562]

Oh man, this isn't going to sit well with the general populus. I have no doubt that all of my blue collar friends are going to be very, very upset that I may no longer get a break on my student loans.

 

[deleted245139]

Oh man, this isn't going to sit well with the general populus. I have no doubt that all of my blue collar friends are going to be very, very upset that I may no longer get a break on my student loans.

See, this is the part I found interesting as we rounded into October. There are two pools. High earners with high debt (us) who stand to benefit heavily, discharging up to hundreds of thousands each... A group the general population would be frustrated got a break, and then the second... Community college, or 4 year degrees, masters groups, less earning potential, a potentially worse job market (field depending) who actually may need the debt forgiveness relative to a worse potential earning opertunity.

One group (us) hard to swallow from a debt-discharged standpoint from sheer amount, and relative to high earnings, and the other, more hamstrung by a lower debt, but higher debt to income ratio.

One side people may feel for, the other (us) less so. But... The way it was structured, we were all in the same basket. Just found it interesting to follow. It's a bummer tho. Off to refinance...

 

[SunsFun]

Oh man, this isn't going to sit well with the general populus. I have no doubt that all of my blue collar friends are going to be very, very upset that I may no longer get a break on my student loans.

Good friends you have there, chief. But it’s not all about you... Maybe a member of “general populus” wouldn’t care about your situation, but if it was their kid who was no longer able to attend the medical school of their dreams - I am sure they’d change their tune.

 

[flightnurse2MD]

Did anyone not see this coming?

“The GOP bill to reauthorize the Higher Education Act, introduced by Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.) on Friday, would eliminate the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, which erases student debt for those who work for qualifying employers after making payments for 10 years.”

GOP bill would eliminate student loan forgiveness for public service

And to think people thought I was f#@king nuts still working part-time as a nurse throughout medical school...

 

[GoldenFish]

Oh man, this isn't going to sit well with the general populus. I have no doubt that all of my blue collar friends are going to be very, very upset that I may no longer get a break on my student loans.

Have any non MD/DO grad student or PhD friends?

 

[flightnurse2MD]

Wasn't this year the first year people became eligible for PSLF? Has anyone successfully reaped the benefits of this?

I wonder if anyone was aware of the fine print about paying taxes on the amount of loan forgiven under PSLF program?

 

[deleted480308]

Pslf shouldn’t exist, your loans are your responsibility. Let people do the math on if their degree is worth it

 

[deleted480308]

Good friends you have there, chief. But it’s not all about you... Maybe a member of “general populus” wouldn’t care about your situation, but if it was their kid who was no longer able to attend the medical school of their dreams - I am sure they’d change their tune.

People can pay for school without pslf

 

[deleted128562]

Have any non MD/DO grad student or PhD friends?

Reading comprehension fail. Yes, in fact most of my friends are not MD/DO or PhD. Re-read my original post.

 

[deleted128562]

Pslf shouldn’t exist, your loans are your responsibility. Let people do the math on if their degree is worth it

WHAT?!?! This is crazy talk!!!! You think people should be responsible for their own decisions and for the loans they choose to take out? What has this country become when we don't have the right to make other people pay for our decisions and our life choices.

 

[Osteoth]

IMO, those that support the current state of events are primarily driven by fear, hate, and jealously of people who aren’t like them. It’s all rationalized and concealed as self-interest.

Doesn't really feel like the millionaire/billionaire business owners and the gun rights/abortion/evangelical people have all that much in comm

Gun rights are not unpopular. Neither are some restrictions on abortions.

The rest (unquoted portion) of your posting was laughable.

As of Oct 2017 60% of Americans believe gun restrictions should be tightened, 55% of Americans do NOT own guns.

Abortion is much tighter I will admit, however as of Oct 2017 49% of Americans identified as pro-choice vs. 46% pro-life.

What else about my post did you find laughable?

Source:
Guns
Abortion

Lol this was going to happen no matter who was in power. You’re naive if you think that anyone in power isn’t operating out of self interest.

I never stated that, I simply said meant to imply that "self-interest" is different based on who you're attempting to convince to vote for you. Making education more difficult to obtain is a far cry from the left's previous comittment to bring free-community college for all into the market.

People can pay for school without pslf

Only issue is its going to exacerbate the primary-care deficiency and cause increased implementation/significance of mid-levels...

 

[Osteoth]

Woops

 

[pstrick]

Either this is a good thing, or it's the democrat's fault.
That's how conservatives see everything these days, right?

Looks like indentured servitude in underserved areas is going to be the quickest route to paying off loans.

 

[deleted480308]

Either this is a good thing, or it's the democrat's fault.
That's how conservatives see everything these days, right?

Looks like indentured servitude in underserved areas is going to be the quickest route to paying off loans.

Almost any doc can live on a resident budget and pay off 300k in 5-6 years

 

[GoldenFish]

Not really sure what you mean by reason comprehension fail. If you’re tying to imply that high income doctors shouldn’t be getting a break on their loans, you realize that PhD and grad students not going into lucrative careers are going to be hit very hard by this.

WHAT?!?! This is crazy talk!!!! You think people should be responsible for their own decisions and for the loans they choose to take out? What has this country become when we don't have the right to make other people pay for our decisions and our life choices.

I get where you’re coming from, but how can we tackle the rampant rise of costs of higher education? This is a multifaceted problem, and helping to cover the ridiculous, continuously rising cost is huge help.

And people can take responsibility for their loans, but there should not be an open environment to practice shady lending w vague terms, predatory practices and targeting those most vulnerable. The language of the bill is very clearly trying to help lenders at the expense of others. Our tax dollars shouldn’t be going to fixing the mess made by greedy lenders either.

 

[deleted480308]

Not really sure what you mean by reason comprehension fail. If you’re tying to imply that high income doctors shouldn’t be getting a break on their loans, you realize that PhD and grad students not going into lucrative careers are going to be hit very hard by this.



I get where you’re coming from, but how can we tackle the rampant rise of costs of higher education? This is a multifaceted problem, and helping to cover the ridiculous, continuously rising cost is huge help.

And people can take responsibility for their loans, but there should not be an open environment to practice shady lending w vague terms, predatory practices and targeting those most vulnerable. The language of the bill is very clearly trying to help lenders at the expense of others. Our tax dollars shouldn’t be going to fixing the mess made by greedy lenders either.

Costs have risen precisely because we “allow” everyone to afford it

 

[flightnurse2MD]

Costs have risen precisely because we “allow” everyone to afford it

What blows my mind is the private DO schools are not lacking in applications when charging $60K/yr in tuition. Can’t fault them when they do provide a service- just can’t believe people are willing to pay those kind of prices. It’s like slinging meth down the block, eh?

 

[zero0]

If there is anyone, probably like 5 ppl since IIRC September wouldve been the first month you could claim it.

I think projecting MD tuition to decrease as a result of grad school loans being capped is wishful thinking. Schools might be encouraged to direct more of their resources towards grants and aid for their students, but I think the far more likely scenario is just that med school classes become suddenly much wealthier overnight.

The bill also ends work-study for grad students.

The overall goal of the bill is obviously to make the ballooning student debt in the country more profitable for the debtholders (banks) (no more forgiveness of debt, higher guaranteed payments, people holding the debt are more likely to have the money to pay it off, etc.; increased likelihood of payment of debt = makes holding debt a more attractive investment) since the reality is that student debt is a bubble that is bound to burst one of these days if it does not become more profitable/a better investment instrument. It's the wrong bandaid for a problem that shouldnt exist to begin with (higher and prof ed shouldnt cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to individuals) and there's nothing you can do to the debt market that will totally reverse the overall tendency for the rate of profit to fall in a bubble since the hard truth is that most degrees obtained are not truly worth the money you paid for them.

I'm just curious if they're going to cut off the people who qualified for it beforehand, which includes pretty much all of us. We may not be making payments yet but there was a clause in our federal loan agreements assuring us that anyone who took out federal loans in a certain time frame would be eligible for PSLF. Now, I'm sure the lawyers could change the terms for qualification, such as issuing a debt limit and cutting off a good deal of med students that way, but it seems illegal and immoral to do so.

The whole legal wording behind PSLF was ambiguous to begin with, so I just assumed it to be unreliable. I pretty much expected to pay back my debt through IBR/REPAYE and wait to see how PSLF shook out. If it worked, great, but starting med school with the idea that you would be debt free in 10 years with minimal payments just seemed naive.

 

[zero0]

I wonder if anyone was aware of the fine print about paying taxes on the amount of loan forgiven under PSLF program?

I thought that was just IBR/REPAYE that had the tax bomb. IIRC PSLF just straight up got you off the hook, no?

 

[aim-agm]

I thought that was just IBR/REPAYE that had the tax bomb. IIRC PSLF just straight up got you off the hook, no?

Yes, PLSF forgiveness incurs no tax burden, other loan forgiveness options do.

 

[Perrotfish]

Pslf shouldn’t exist, your loans are your responsibility. Let people do the math on if their degree is worth it

Part of the function of government is to protect citizens from more powerful individuals and organizations who might try to coerce them into destructive decisions. That's why It is not reasonable to expect an 18 year old to protect themselves from predatory lenders offering infinity dollars non-dischargable loans.

 

[WingedOx]

Wouldn't PAYE and REPAYE be available for current borrowers consider that they're all written in their MPNs? All the knowledgeable people told me that there will be a grandfather clause, or it will be a case for one of the biggest lawsuits in the history of this nation.

Can you please provide source? I've been looking but can't find anything that references IBR specifically.

see my edit above:
The WSJ had a big reveal of this bill last week which discussed IBR, and I misread it. IBR stays but the associated loan forgiveness goes.

House GOP to Propose Sweeping Changes to Higher Education

 

[68PGunner]

I thought that was just IBR/REPAYE that had the tax bomb. IIRC PSLF just straight up got you off the hook, no?

That's correct.

 

[68PGunner]

see my edit above:
The WSJ had a big reveal of this bill last week which discussed IBR, and I misread it. IBR stays but the associated loan forgiveness goes.

House GOP to Propose Sweeping Changes to Higher Education

https://www.studentloanplanner.com/prosper-act-house-gop/

Video and post from a dude that actually combs through the 500 pg proposal.

 

[deleted480308]

Part of the function of government is to protect citizens from more powerful individuals and organizations who might try to coerce them into destructive decisions. That's why It is not reasonable to expect an 18 year old to protect themselves from predatory lenders offering infinity dollars non-dischargable loans.

that's why I also say student loans should be dischargeable

 

[flightnurse2MD]

I thought that was just IBR/REPAYE that had the tax bomb. IIRC PSLF just straight up got you off the hook, no?

To be honest, I heard this from a financial advisor who spoke to our group at a conference. I feel these laws are a lot gray and open for interpretation.

 

[mehc012]

Pslf shouldn’t exist, your loans are your responsibility. Let people do the math on if their degree is worth it

That's reasonable if that's policy from the outset, but it does create a bit of a rough patch for those who were planning on using PSLF and arranged their finances accordingly. An entirely foreseeable issue? Possibly, but I'm still sympathetic to those who currently qualify and have a higher loan burden than they would have had they not been anticipating PSLF kicking in.

 

[Perrotfish]

that's why I also say student loans should be dischargeable

That's how we got here in the first place, though. Private lenders don't give large loans to 18 year olds with no assets. Even the government wasn't willing to give large loans to 18 year olds of they could just declare bankruptcy as soon as they were done with school. There was no functional free market system that used to work.

 

[deleted480308]

That's how we got here in the first place, though. Private lenders don't give large loans to 18 year olds with no assets. Even the government wasn't willing to give large loans to 18 year olds of they could just declare bankruptcy as soon as they were done with school. There was no functional free market system that used to work.

that's kind of the point.....it's a bad investment to be throwing $300k in loans at someone just out of high school for a degree that doesn't support repayment. What that means is that the degree isn't actually worth $300k in risk at current interest rates (to a lender).

When you let the market handle what is an appropriate amount of interest/loan amount for a given degree/school/student it will change the amount of people that have access to funds for given degrees.......that's a good thing. There shouldn't be an undending flow of guaranteed money for any degree. That's stupid.

There will still be money that appears for engineering/medicine/tech....there will still be money for business and in smaller amounts for education. What you will not find for reasonable interest rates given their employment outlook is $75k for a BS in something useless. All of this is good. The costs and the number of useless offerings have bloated to accommodate the endless flow of cash.

When the cash dries up dramatically, school will need to be more efficient in their offerings and demonstrate value instead of the ridiculousness they are doing now

 

[68PGunner]

REPAYE will probably go bye bye in 10-12 months bc it's not a piece of legislation but rather an executive order. I started taking out my loans in 2016 and I don't see REPAYE being mentioned at all in my MPN despite REPAYE being in effect from 2015.

 

[jhamaican]

The GOP is a combination of the very wealthy and those who are one-issue voters on generally unpopular issues (guns, immigration, abortion, evangelicalism). The very wealthy want to increase the value of their wealth by making proper education a scarce resource, therefore making those who are able to attain it significantly better off than those who are not. This is juxtaposed by the one-issue people who either don't care or are unable to comprehend that their place in society will be devalued by this change.

I really do wonder what is the mentality of the one-issue voter. How can one issue be so important that it trumps interest in the ability to live (healthcare) and prosper (economy)?

Great generalizations snowflake. Save your ignorance. Best stay in California.

The stock market (economy) not doing well enough for you?

 

[jhamaican]

IMO, those that support the current state of events are primarily driven by fear, hate, and jealously of people who aren’t like them. It’s all rationalized and concealed as self-interest.

Keep drinking that CNN/NYT koolaid.

#MAGA trump train 2020

 

[Ismet]

I wonder if anyone was aware of the fine print about paying taxes on the amount of loan forgiven under PSLF program?

To be honest, I heard this from a financial advisor who spoke to our group at a conference. I feel these laws are a lot gray and open for interpretation.

The taxable vs non-taxable forgiveness really isn't a grey area, it's very clearly explained on the FSA site, which everyone taking out federal loans should read and understand. PSLF forgiveness is not considered income and is not subject to income tax. REPAYE/PAYE/etc forgiveness is considered taxable income.

 

[Greg'sLobos]

Keep drinking that CNN/NYT koolaid.

#MAGA trump train 2020

Yeah, keep drinking those facts and journalism, idiots! We trumpians will continue to believe his every lie. I'm sure those tax returns are right around the corner! I'm just sad that this tax bill will cost him such a fortune! Poor guy.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I don’t see how it would be feasible for any medical school to just cut their tuition in order to accommodate a hypothetical 150k cap. If this was to happen, a more likely outcome would be people going to the cheapest schools they can go to and medicine becoming even more the field for the rich and their children.

The more likely outcome would be most medical students taking out private loans and the rich students having their parents pay for a large chunk of it.

 

[flightnurse2MD]

The taxable vs non-taxable forgiveness really isn't a grey area, it's very clearly explained on the FSA site, which everyone taking out federal loans should read and understand. PSLF forgiveness is not considered income and is not subject to income tax. REPAYE/PAYE/etc forgiveness is considered taxable income.

Snap! Did I just get sdn b-h slapped?! Thank you for the clarification.

 

[flightnurse2MD]

The more likely outcome would be most medical students taking out private loans and the rich students having their parents pay for a large chunk of it.

I got a gently used double-wide coming my way when my parents die...