BOWWLING TOURNAMENT GAME THREAD

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Lawpy said:
It is? Dislike reacts are fine and not that uncommon. It’s only the inappropriate reacts you need to avoid using because of the moderator notification.
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Yeah, I agree with lawpy. Just as an FYI, the dislike reaction is okay to use, but a lot of players use it only infrequently. Only the inappropriate react should be completely avoided unless something actually violates SDN’s rules. When a post upsets me or I disagree with it, I usually use the angry reaction
 
vetmedhead said:
Yes, working on them, just give me a moment. I fell asleep reading thread last night and have a monsterous number of quotes saved so expanding on my thoughts is gonna take a minute

That being said, on catching up I am liking April and alley better (I mention them specifically since they were my main commentary on D1) - April has more content that reads pro-village to me than some of the hedgier and more avoidant behavior I had been seeing earlier and she's been independently bringing up lines of questioning and avoiding some easier voting wagons. I like some of her steers away from some NKA discussions on thread.

Alley is still more of a tone read to me atm but on thread her more recent posts just remind me of her village play (from a billion years ago whenever I last played with her). Her recent posts I think have good lines of reasoning for how she engages with other people's POEs. Not a ton of content from our PM though because we've mostly just joked about being behind on catch up and talked about dating apps lol. That being said

Less expansive (and none of these rambling thoughts are ordered), but:

currently leaning true, stoatling, Mel, zenge, am village. I begrudgingly have lawpy leaning village too even though I always want to make him wolfy because of how he questions people lol. That being said, true's recent sporty iso gave me bad feelings, particularly the opening saying they aren't outright calling sporty a wolf but everything she does is perfectly wolfish behavior and then spending what looks like an exhausting amount of time on that iso - why go through that effort and then not even lean confidently on a read?

I need to think more/see more on wO2, doc ock, potshelter, and puppy to form opinions on them. Some just haven't posted enough for me to lean one way or another and some I think I have just been confusing with other players and I need to tease them out a bit.

I feel weird about sporty but iirc I tend to find her prickly and weird in games so I always feel weird trying to confidently read her one way or another. How many times can I use the word "weird" in a sentence? I am leaning her very marginally on the wolfy side of neutral but as mentioned above I didn't like that true post and I'm trying to reconcile those two feelings as I don't particularly see true and sporty being in a wolf pack together.

I do not know what people are seeing in visc as I have found her posts to be largely village leaning.

I don't really have an opinion of samac yet, which I find strange. Need to look at her closer today.

Ivy reads so strongly nooby that it's hard sometimes to gauge an actual read on her. That being said I still lean her village side of nooby rather than wolfy.

I do see what others are talking about with VV and zuri and may end up voting there today. I also keep getting occasional pings from YK. Also, while I still think fluff is village, there was a comment she made back when I posted about the NKA when I was catching up that rubbed me the wrong way when I officially caught up to that part in thread. I need to dig it up but it just felt like a misrepresentation of who said what and read strangely to me.
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Why is Mel village to you?
 
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Lawpy said:
Is this because you think wolf!vissy in particular won’t allow this? Or is this something you believe a wolf wouldn’t do in general?
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More wolf wouldn’t do in general, I’ve never wolfed with Vissy and don’t know her might kill thought processes. Someone who has wolfed with her may be able to give more insight.
I also don’t think vissy is a wolf for other reasons, though.
 
Aprilthearab said:
I agree that stoat has said a lot of weird pingy things, but I actually think the bolder/looser play recently feels more like how she was in the noob game as a villager. I was a bit more weirded out earlier yesterday because she felt more toned down than the last game, and this morning she's reading genuine to me
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I had the opposite feeling tbh. Yesterday the possible defending pinged me a bit but otherwise she sounded village to me, today her preemptive (as in no one was pointing at her for Dubz dying that I saw) WIFOM defense about why the Dubz death doesn’t implicate her concerns me
 
zuriburi said:
And you up there right after them. I realize a simple wolf strategy would be to geet someone with an inaccurate list to draw suspicion to the top but the way that everyone’s responding to this situation has at least these top 2 as my top 2 wolfs.

Yeet viscernable
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What do you mean by this?
 
Aprilthearab said:
I feel good about true and shelter. Fine for now about alley, zenge, AM, and lawpy, octo, puppy, and mel.
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Aprilthearab said:
My POE is feeling like kal, violet, Ivy, zuri, Octo, meats, Oxy, fluff
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what made you put octo in your "fine for now" list?
What happened between these two posts that moved Octo from fine for now to your POE?
 
IvyMoose said:
Good Vibes Dancing GIF by Peloton

I feel like I need to say that this is a JOKE... bc I know I'll get heat for it somehow lmao
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This gif is mesmerizing
 
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samac said:
I thought you said you moved her up to neutrals? Is neutral above village leaning in POE?
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That is NOT what I said.
Melchizedek said:
Can you explain why Visc is in your wolf reads?Actually I’ve seen Visc’s name on a lot of people’s wolf list, can anyone give me a TL;DR of why?

I keep going back and forth on AM and Sporty the more I stare at their posts. I'm moving AM into my neutrals for now and




###Unvote Zuri###
###Vote Sporty###
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SportPonies said:
Referencing a game from 2018 is hardly a valid datapoint.
AND Dubz died "early" (it appears N3) in that game because we seered her N1 and she had night kills. Not only is that not particularly early, it was for mechanical reasons and not for player/meta/read/whatever reasons.

I don't even know why I'm arguing with you because it's pointless. It just annoys me when you state things as though they are black and white when they rarely are.
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Animal Midwife said:
A mechanical reason is still a real reason. N3 in a game where D1 was for mayoral is early. If it happened, it's a data point. I don't do grade forgiveness.
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SportPonies said:
N3 is not an "early" kill and a mechanical reason is a whole lot different than blind-mechanics choosing to kill someone N1.
And again, the N=1 (if I generously consider N3 "early") in the 50+ games I've played ain't much greater than any random player killing Dubz early. It's faulty logic.
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Animal Midwife said:
Is there any way to prove dubz was blindly chosen rather than having thought behind it?

No. There is not. So this is WIFOM.

Stats don't apply here otherwise I can say no one can ever wolf read me since I'm statistically more likely to be village every time.
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This discussion feels weird to me.
 
vetmedhead said:
*snip*

currently leaning true, stoatling, Mel, zenge, am village. I begrudgingly have lawpy leaning village too even though I always want to make him wolfy because of how he questions people lol. That being said, true's recent sporty iso gave me bad feelings, particularly the opening saying they aren't outright calling sporty a wolf but everything she does is perfectly wolfish behavior and then spending what looks like an exhausting amount of time on that iso - why go through that effort and then not even lean confidently on a read?
*snip*
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I'd be a pretty bottom-of-the-barrel researcher if I wasn't willing to have my views changed or attenuated after doing a detailed literature search. I went into the ISO more confident that she was a wolf than I came out of it.
 
Like i don’t know if AM is reaching here because i can see what Sporty is saying here. It feels like a weird variation of AM vs genny and the unusual extrapolation here (at that time it’s using a Pippy post to make some point on genny, but here it’s using a game from 4 years ago that’s not really similar to the current situation). Feels weird.
 
Lawpy said:
Like i don’t know if AM is reaching here because i can see what Sporty is saying here. It feels like a weird variation of AM vs genny and the unusual extrapolation here (at that time it’s using a Pippy post to make some point on genny, but here it’s using a game from 4 years ago that’s not really similar to the current situation). Feels weird.
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It is relevant to the current situation unless you know something about the wolf kill I don't.
 
Animal Midwife said:
It is relevant to the current situation unless you know something about the wolf kill I don't.
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i was reading this post in the context of the discussion of WZ being killed N1
Animal Midwife said:
Mel, you, Vis, and Sporty all have a previous record of killing dubz early. Not sure about the rest because I don't remember.
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So the Baking discussion on N3 looked comparatively mid as opposed to early.
 
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bluestoat said:
I'd post that if I were a wolf. I'd love ****ing with people as a wolf. Pretty sure our noob wolves posted like that as wolves lol

Guys, I'm taking the dog out again because it's super icy here in MN and True slipped on the ice. Rostam has ten units of energy left. He made me dinner after work and cleaned up a bunch around the house so it's the very least I can do 😅

Brb don't let me off your accusation hooks yet, especially @puppydogtor and @Lawpy

There's a lot of forum to go through, I bookmarked a few posts, so fire away if there's something I miss. Sorry I keep posting but delaying on addressing the serious bizniz of clearing my good name! It's hard to not post little potato chip posts
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Stoaty pls
 
Animal Midwife said:
Why is Mel village to you?
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He's soft village, I wasn't a fan of some of his vote placements (hilariously, the one on April since she wasn't a wolf read of his iirc), but he also always plays his patented chaotic Mel 5D chess so honestly when he's out doing wolfy crap like that I tend to paradoxically read him village for it. That being said I think he has done a good job pointing out some legitimate sketchness from other players that was overlooked for discussion on thread, and I've been following his logic decently which either means I'm more sleep deprived than I thought (reasonable since I did not go to bed until 4 AM) or finally assimilated into his cult
 
Truenamer said:
Wow, this took a bit. Going to preface this with a big disclaimer: after going through all this, I'm not convinced one way or the other that SportPonies is a wolf. Heck, she leans villager. But I think the way she's been playing does have a pattern that would be perfectly consistent with a wolf.

EDIT- Added spoilers.

First ten posts or so, the 12 hours, are normal banter. High energy, a crack at Stoat, no real pings.
Then we get this one, which kind of starts it. A bit brusque, no reasoning, just rejection. I acknowledge that my initial read of AM doesn't align with the way y'all tend to play, but the approach here feels like it's asking for contention.

Early game:
Again, not a huge ping, just... contentious, in an unnecessary way.


Okay, here's where it starts to feel weird to me. And again, let me acknowledge that my cavalier "AM is 85-90% village" statement was overly bold (but also got the conversation started, so mission accomplished). (Also AM is village, standing by it)

Pony made the "words in my mouth" statement again when AM wasn't really doing that, and she throw doubt on any read based on previous games. Saying that it's way too early, we need to take time. Who wins these games if the villagers sit back and take lots of time?


Very next comment, casting doubt on a different person's ability to make an early read (Dubz, in this case). This time, it's not a wet-behind-the-ears noob, it's people who have played together and know each other. She's not being blatant about it, but still chiming in to tell people to cool their jets on early reads and slow the process down.


She says there's a difference, but still casts doubt on both things.

After that there's a good stretch of posts that I find perfectly agreeable, and then:
Speculation on three people (all who various people pong as wolfy at the time), but her own reasons for painting them with the brush are extremely vague. "Low hanging fruit something or other?" Blue's hardly the only person to question Octo's strange posting behavior.


And this begins a push on samac. Not sure how I feel about her, personally, but the vigor with which she go after her seems very strange for someone who's spent most of the game so far emphasizing how uncertain Day 1 reads are.


I'm not the only one who notices this.

Then more on this line:
Big reach on Blue here; obviously someone's play is going to feel different when you don't have full behind-the-scenes information on the game. And the weird thing is, Pony is obviously smart and knows that. So... why? In my opinion, it's because at this point Blue has become an easy/safe villager to target.


A pretty wild statement given how much doubt she threw on people making assumptions from a relatively small number of statements at the beginning of the game.



Back on the samac train with, again, an accusation with no meat behind it.


Now we get to today. Me this time, and it's again a quick and relatively strong-worded accusation with very little heft behind it.


Clouding/obfuscating someone's fairly well laid-out reasoning like this feels bad.


And again, oddly heavy with the wolf-colored paint.

And today:
And here we go! What kicked off this little back and forth today... was Ponies casting shade over someone's opinion developing, in a game about developing your opinions on people (and in which a truly massive amount of background material exists for some of the players).




So then we get this- vague message, direct pushback on me, another vague message. When read in real time, felt pretty obvious who you were discussing (since most people have correctly read me as a clumsy newby villager, and said as much). Feels quite obvious that I'm the new target (lucky for samac and blue and Mel and Vis and YK, I suppose).


And here's the true weirdness; I say I'm going to look over your posts, and immediately the bristles come out. And we have the words-in-mouth thing that we saw with AM way earlier; I never said a thing about questions or asking questions. It came out of thin air, presumably to make me seem irrational? A very strange decision either way, since everyone can just read our posts.


If grilling someone can't change our opinions on them, what the heck is the point of any of this? Very strange thing to say, feels like you don't like the attention and have gone into full deflection mode.


Continuing the deflection mode, we now move into deescalation. If we were to assume wolf!Sport, this is meant to bring an end to the discussion and send attention to other people before folks who know her better and are better at the game start to get curious.


If this is genuine, I'm sorry. If not, it's clean manipulation that makes the reader feel bad for you, take your posts in a different light, and make you feel better so you want to stay in the community. I wouldn't accuse someone of emotional manipulation like that normally, but we're playing a game where ~20% of the players are supposed to do exactly that.

And after that, a full shift in the discussion does happen.


And here, the final deescalation. You throw me a bone! Thank you for that. It's also what wolf!Ponies would do to tie a bow on a slightly elevated situation, especially since I hadn't posted this pile of a post yet.

Thanks for reading. I hope Ponies isn't a wolf, in which case I hope she enjoys this game and doesn't retire from werewolfing.
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This looks like you have a valid case on Sporty.. but you’re reading her as neutral to village?
 
Lawpy said:
This looks like you have a valid case on Sporty.. but you’re reading her as neutral to village?
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I didn’t really understand the conclusion that True came to with his ISO either. The iso made me feel worse about sporty but also he came to a conclusion that she was neutrally village? Idk I appreciate the reevaluation he did but it confused me
 
alleycat03 said:
I'm getting pretty tired but I want to be completely caught up before I go to sleep. Here are my reads as of page 32. I don't think they will change a lot based on the next few pages.

Vets I'm feeling good about: AM, Mel, Zenge, Samac
Neutral Vets: VMH, Lawpy, Kal
Wolfy Vets/?????? (aka idk how to read them but they all seem sus): Sporty, Vis, April

Village-y Noobs: Pshelty and True
Neutral Noobs: Zuri, Puppydogtor, OctDoc, WorthlessO2, Stoat
Wolfy Noobs: Fluffy, violet, ivy

For the noobs, I am having a hard time distinguishing between noobness and actual wolfiness. Because a lot of it stands out to me and makes me cringe (not in a bad way, just can't think of a synonym) because it seems so incredibly wolf-like, but then I see a noob do it and I have a crisis over whether or not they're a wolf or just a noob.
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Why are you wolfreading aprils?
 
Viscernable said:
What do you mean by this?
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I feel like I’ve explained this 15 times and I’m starting to feel suspicious of anyone challenging this logic which is dead simple: the wolves killed DubZ; DubZ had a list of likely wolves; We should be suspicious of the people at the top of that list.

I understand that there’s a lot of people saying “oh the wolves wouldn’t do that! that could paint a target on their back!” But by that same token It seems like the wolves could rely on people assuming that they wouldn’t do that, so it’s still somewhat safe. And I think it’s worth inverting it… if DubZ DIDN’T have any wolves at the top of their list, why not let them stay alive and advocate for yeeting some villagers? I’m not saying that 100% all the people at the top of the DubZ list are wolves, but it feels pretty unlikely to me that none of those orange people in DubZ’s list would be wolves. Beyond that, I have very little confidence in my tonal reads on people so I’d just like to vote for whoever has other strong wolf consensus around them and is high on DubZ’s list.
 
Truenamer said:
I'd be a pretty bottom-of-the-barrel researcher if I wasn't willing to have my views changed or attenuated after doing a detailed literature search. I went into the ISO more confident that she was a wolf than I came out of it.
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Lol usually when I start doing massive isos and then change my mind halfway through I just shamefully erase the whole thing while people ask me what the hell I was doing for the last half hour 🥲
 
Melchizedek said:
Can you explain why Visc is in your wolf reads?Actually I’ve seen Visc’s name on a lot of people’s wolf list, can anyone give me a TL;DR of why?
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For me, it’s because she was mirroring you in D1 and the resistance to the vissy wagon in end of D1 based on vote progressions bothers me.
 
zuriburi said:
I feel like I’ve explained this 15 times and I’m starting to feel suspicious of anyone challenging this logic which is dead simple: the wolves killed DubZ; DubZ had a list of likely wolves; We should be suspicious of the people at the top of that list.

I understand that there’s a lot of people saying “oh the wolves wouldn’t do that! that could paint a target on their back!” But by that same token It seems like the wolves could rely on people assuming that they wouldn’t do that, so it’s still somewhat safe. And I think it’s worth inverting it… if DubZ DIDN’T have any wolves at the top of their list, why not let them stay alive and advocate for yeeting some villagers? I’m not saying that 100% all the people at the top of the DubZ list are wolves, but it feels pretty unlikely to me that none of those orange people in DubZ’s list would be wolves. Beyond that, I have very little confidence in my tonal reads on people so I’d just like to vote for whoever has other strong wolf consensus around them and is high on DubZ’s list.
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I get this line of reasoning, at the same time it's difficult to interpret wolf reasoning so voting this way essentially amounts to gambling against the house sometimes. Dubz is generally quick to move her opinions from fluid to solid village blocs and has decent track record at early to mid game wolf hunting (until she chokes in end game lol) so there's plenty of reasons for her to be on a target list at almost any point in the game, which is why trying to interpret wolf reasoning often ends up being a somewhat unproductive rabbit hole.

Important to consider too that dubz had a very good chunk of the roster in orange so it's a wide POE even with this line of reasoning. I think it's entirely reasonable there are wolves in there, but mostly because that confidence interval is so wide.

While you're not confident in them, what are your tonal reads? At the very least they may be helpful to discuss
 
zuriburi said:
I feel like I’ve explained this 15 times and I’m starting to feel suspicious of anyone challenging this logic which is dead simple: the wolves killed DubZ; DubZ had a list of likely wolves; We should be suspicious of the people at the top of that list.

I understand that there’s a lot of people saying “oh the wolves wouldn’t do that! that could paint a target on their back!” But by that same token It seems like the wolves could rely on people assuming that they wouldn’t do that, so it’s still somewhat safe. And I think it’s worth inverting it… if DubZ DIDN’T have any wolves at the top of their list, why not let them stay alive and advocate for yeeting some villagers? I’m not saying that 100% all the people at the top of the DubZ list are wolves, but it feels pretty unlikely to me that none of those orange people in DubZ’s list would be wolves. Beyond that, I have very little confidence in my tonal reads on people so I’d just like to vote for whoever has other strong wolf consensus around them and is high on DubZ’s list.
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Fine you want to wolf read everyone at the top of WZ's list. I'm okay with that logic.

Who are your village reads? And no, you can't just say the bottom of WZ's list. I want YOUR reads and YOUR reasons why those people are village.
 
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Lawpy said:
Nooo 🙁

Yeah it’s a crappy feature of this site. I had to save quotes outside of the website to avoid losing them. The automatic save draft feature isn’t reliable
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Yeah I was trying to convert it to HTML formatting so I could break up the text wall and it got furious, wouldn't do it, and then deleted everything. Some of the things I quoted already got asked +/- answered but I need to go back a second and at least get that thing I was talking about with fluff so it's not totally lost in time like tears in rain
 
Melchizedek said:
Fine you want to wolf read everyone at the top of WZ's list. I'm okay with that logic.

Who are your village reads? And no, you can't just say the bottom of WZ's list. I want YOUR reads and YOUR reasons why those people are village.
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You’re honestly getting to the top of my wolf list because I feel like I’m laying out plenty of reasonable stuff and you keep asking me for “YOUR take” and I’m sorry I don’t think that’s as valuable as what im saying and the whole attitude feels like a way to draw attention from my line of reasoning.
 
Truenamer said:
No, neutral to wolf. Like 60% wolf, where the average random person is 20%.
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Damn, 60% only puts her in neutral to wolf? Do they have to cough up some bones from a villager on thread to be in your definitely wolfy reads? Lol

Do you have anyone you're reading more wolfy than her atm?
 
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