BOWWLING TOURNAMENT GAME THREAD

[Animal Midwife]

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I'm getting pretty tired but I want to be completely caught up before I go to sleep. Here are my reads as of page 32. I don't think they will change a lot based on the next few pages.

Vets I'm feeling good about: AM, Mel, Zenge, Samac
Neutral Vets: VMH, Lawpy, Kal
Wolfy Vets/?????? (aka idk how to read them but they all seem sus): Sporty, Vis, April

Village-y Noobs: Pshelty and True
Neutral Noobs: Zuri, Puppydogtor, OctDoc, WorthlessO2, Stoat
Wolfy Noobs: Fluffy, violet, ivy

For the noobs, I am having a hard time distinguishing between noobness and actual wolfiness. Because a lot of it stands out to me and makes me cringe (not in a bad way, just can't think of a synonym) because it seems so incredibly wolf-like, but then I see a noob do it and I have a crisis over whether or not they're a wolf or just a noob.

Why is Lawpy neutral if you think he's done nothing outside of his village meta?

Also, what has Mel in your village reads?

 

[alleycat03]

Why is Lawpy neutral if you think he's done nothing outside of his village meta?

Also, what has Mel in your village reads?

I went back and forth on Lawpy between my village and neutral categories. He is acting just like he did in Bioshock and another game idk the name of rn but I also know that I have no clue how he plays as a wolf. It is that unfamiliarity with his wolf play that had me put him back in neutrals.

Mel just seems much more helpful and appears to be wolf hunting. I strongly misread him earlier this year and I was completely wrong. He doesn't feel like baby animals mel from what I can recall. I can pull specific quotes tomorrow but I'm not going to do it at 2am b/c I want to sleep.

 

[alleycat03]

My POE is feeling like kal, violet, Ivy, zuri, Octo, meats, Oxy, fluff

I don't hate this POE. I would think there is likely another veteran in there somewhere? I am guessing there are 4-5 wolves with a couple of veterans and a couple of noobs. We had 13 returning players and 10 noobs sign up.

Attempting to. I'm looking at my mentions first. I am 12 pages behind so I got out my laptop (aka the big guns) to speed up my reading. It's been a long day, sorry for my absence

lol I posted this at 9pm. It's now 2am. So glad I got distracted by fun discord games but I am so ready to sleep.

I'd post that if I were a wolf. I'd love ****ing with people as a wolf. Pretty sure our noob wolves posted like that as wolves lol

I can't say I am a fan of you proclaiming everything you'd do if you were a wolf. it just adds to the giant mountain of WIFOM your posts usually have

Guys, I'm taking the dog out again because it's super icy here in MN and True slipped on the ice. Rostam has ten units of energy left. He made me dinner after work and cleaned up a bunch around the house so it's the very least I can do 😅

I hope True is okay! But now I am imagining your dog cooking dinner and cleaning your house 😆

 

[bluestoat]

It's not "wine in front of you, pointless circular reasoning" to be dismissive of an obvious statement that is neither incriminating nor vindicating and super easy to make as either village or wolf. I stand by remarking that that's just Sporty grabbing at an easy way out of tunneling True. True grabbed at that as weird too. Call us both out of you want to play it like that, Alley, but don't say I'm the only one making grandiose leaps of needlessly layered logic.

 

[samac]

Holy mother of god you would think Cray was in this game with the notifications I woke up to Alley

 

[samac]

Wow, this took a bit. Going to preface this with a big disclaimer: after going through all this, I'm not convinced one way or the other that SportPonies is a wolf. Heck, she leans villager. But I think the way she's been playing does have a pattern that would be perfectly consistent with a wolf.

EDIT- Added spoilers.

First ten posts or so, the 12 hours, are normal banter. High energy, a crack at Stoat, no real pings.

Spoiler

Then we get this one, which kind of starts it. A bit brusque, no reasoning, just rejection. I acknowledge that my initial read of AM doesn't align with the way y'all tend to play, but the approach here feels like it's asking for contention.

Early game:

Spoiler

Again, not a huge ping, just... contentious, in an unnecessary way.


Okay, here's where it starts to feel weird to me. And again, let me acknowledge that my cavalier "AM is 85-90% village" statement was overly bold (but also got the conversation started, so mission accomplished). (Also AM is village, standing by it)

Pony made the "words in my mouth" statement again when AM wasn't really doing that, and she throw doubt on any read based on previous games. Saying that it's way too early, we need to take time. Who wins these games if the villagers sit back and take lots of time?


Very next comment, casting doubt on a different person's ability to make an early read (Dubz, in this case). This time, it's not a wet-behind-the-ears noob, it's people who have played together and know each other. She's not being blatant about it, but still chiming in to tell people to cool their jets on early reads and slow the process down.


She says there's a difference, but still casts doubt on both things.

After that there's a good stretch of posts that I find perfectly agreeable, and then:

Spoiler

Speculation on three people (all who various people pong as wolfy at the time), but her own reasons for painting them with the brush are extremely vague. "Low hanging fruit something or other?" Blue's hardly the only person to question Octo's strange posting behavior.


And this begins a push on samac. Not sure how I feel about her, personally, but the vigor with which she go after her seems very strange for someone who's spent most of the game so far emphasizing how uncertain Day 1 reads are.


I'm not the only one who notices this.

Then more on this line:

Spoiler

Big reach on Blue here; obviously someone's play is going to feel different when you don't have full behind-the-scenes information on the game. And the weird thing is, Pony is obviously smart and knows that. So... why? In my opinion, it's because at this point Blue has become an easy/safe villager to target.


A pretty wild statement given how much doubt she threw on people making assumptions from a relatively small number of statements at the beginning of the game.



Back on the samac train with, again, an accusation with no meat behind it.


Now we get to today. Me this time, and it's again a quick and relatively strong-worded accusation with very little heft behind it.


Clouding/obfuscating someone's fairly well laid-out reasoning like this feels bad.


And again, oddly heavy with the wolf-colored paint.

And today:

Spoiler

And here we go! What kicked off this little back and forth today... was Ponies casting shade over someone's opinion developing, in a game about developing your opinions on people (and in which a truly massive amount of background material exists for some of the players).




So then we get this- vague message, direct pushback on me, another vague message. When read in real time, felt pretty obvious who you were discussing (since most people have correctly read me as a clumsy newby villager, and said as much). Feels quite obvious that I'm the new target (lucky for samac and blue and Mel and Vis and YK, I suppose).


And here's the true weirdness; I say I'm going to look over your posts, and immediately the bristles come out. And we have the words-in-mouth thing that we saw with AM way earlier; I never said a thing about questions or asking questions. It came out of thin air, presumably to make me seem irrational? A very strange decision either way, since everyone can just read our posts.


If grilling someone can't change our opinions on them, what the heck is the point of any of this? Very strange thing to say, feels like you don't like the attention and have gone into full deflection mode.


Continuing the deflection mode, we now move into deescalation. If we were to assume wolf!Sport, this is meant to bring an end to the discussion and send attention to other people before folks who know her better and are better at the game start to get curious.


If this is genuine, I'm sorry. If not, it's clean manipulation that makes the reader feel bad for you, take your posts in a different light, and make you feel better so you want to stay in the community. I wouldn't accuse someone of emotional manipulation like that normally, but we're playing a game where ~20% of the players are supposed to do exactly that.

And after that, a full shift in the discussion does happen.


And here, the final deescalation. You throw me a bone! Thank you for that. It's also what wolf!Ponies would do to tie a bow on a slightly elevated situation, especially since I hadn't posted this pile of a post yet.

Thanks for reading. I hope Ponies isn't a wolf, in which case I hope she enjoys this game and doesn't retire from werewolfing.

Oh god you’re one of those.
Shorty would be proud.
I gotta say, it doesn’t look good. But I can’t think sporty would be that obvious when wolfing. Like testing the waters on you then backing off. I’m having a hard time remembering her wolf play, I think last time was MHA and she went down because of a rojo and interaction checks. I’m curious.

 

[Truenamer]

Oh god you’re one of those.
Shorty would be proud.
I gotta say, it doesn’t look good. But I can’t think sporty would be that obvious when wolfing. Like testing the waters on you then backing off. I’m having a hard time remembering her wolf play, I think last time was MHA and she went down because of a rojo and interaction checks. I’m curious.

I basically have two modes, "fly by the seat of my pants" and "excessive hyperfocus". You're usually going to get the first one unless it feels important.

 

[samac]

It's not "wine in front of you, pointless circular reasoning" to be dismissive of an obvious statement that is neither incriminating nor vindicating and super easy to make as either village or wolf. I stand by remarking that that's just Sporty grabbing at an easy way out of tunneling True. True grabbed at that as weird too. Call us both out of you want to play it like that, Alley, but don't say I'm the only one making grandiose leaps of needlessly layered logic.

I am very confused on what this is in reference to, the two previous posts alley made didn’t reference you at all?

 

[SportPonies]

Was this game HZD or a different game?? I don't remember if Mel was a wolf or if he found the wolves

I think this is a pretty solid reads list, and it seems in line with something village!zenge would make.

This is a very interesting tinfoil, so I'm giving you credit for that. It almost seems too specific for you to not have knowledge that this role actually exists in the game? Maybe its just creativity but I was surprised you suggested this out of the blue.

I'm not sure what you mean? The wolfpack could or could not have a seer. The wolves can't usually do actions in the same night that are contingent upon each other. For example, they can't say "seer alley and kill her only if she has a PR." They would probably pick a target for the factional kill and a target for their seering ability. They are not related and you cannot make any assumptions about what roles the wolves have right now.

Quoting this to see if she actually answered the question. So far, not yet.

That's just how Lawpy plays the game. He's already defended himself and explained, but he is well-known for asking questions like that and having a TON of short posts and questions. I do not see anything outside of his village meta rn, but I know I have yet to see wolf!lawpy.

I still don't think wolves would do something that obvious. Just because Vis was Dubz's top wolf read means she immediately ordered the kill because of Dubz being suspicious of her. It is definitely WIFOM but IMO only the noobiest of wolves would do that with no other reasoning behind it. Hence why NK analysis is unfortunately not that helpful 95% of the time.

I did indeed answer that when stoat brought it up later. I was waiting to get back there on my catch-up first.

 

[Truenamer]

I am very confused on what this is in reference to, the two previous posts alley made didn’t reference you at all?

The post immediately above hers does reference her? It's the third paragraph / quote

 

[Melchizedek]

Wolfy Vets/?????? (aka idk how to read them but they all seem sus): Sporty, Vis, April

Can you explain why Visc is in your wolf reads?Actually I’ve seen Visc’s name on a lot of people’s wolf list, can anyone give me a TL;DR of why?

I keep going back and forth on AM and Sporty the more I stare at their posts. I'm moving AM into my neutrals for now and




###Unvote Zuri###
###Vote Sporty###

 

[samac]

It's not "wine in front of you, pointless circular reasoning" to be dismissive of an obvious statement that is neither incriminating nor vindicating and super easy to make as either village or wolf. I stand by remarking that that's just Sporty grabbing at an easy way out of tunneling True. True grabbed at that as weird too. Call us both out of you want to play it like that, Alley, but don't say I'm the only one making grandiose leaps of needlessly layered logic.

Oh. SDN is weird sometimes and I guess as I was responding to stuff it probably did the new posts thing and showed on the previous page as I was reading right after alley’s post. I was confused.

 

[samac]

The post immediately above hers does reference her? It's the third paragraph / quote

See above. SDN weirdness

 

[samac]

Can you explain why Visc is in your wolf reads?Actually I’ve seen Visc’s name on a lot of people’s wolf list, can anyone give me a TL;DR of why?

I keep going back and forth on AM and Sporty the more I stare at their posts. I'm moving AM into my neutrals for now and




###Unvote Zuri###
###Vote Sporty###

Wait you’ve had AM in your wolf reads?
Why?

 

[Truenamer]

Wait you’ve had AM in your wolf reads?
Why?

Yeah, I would also be interested in hearing the reasoning.

Personally, I've gone ahead and decided that if AM ends up being a wolf, I deserve to lose 😅

 

[samac]

Yeah, I would also be interested in hearing the reasoning.

Personally, I've gone ahead and decided that if AM ends up being a wolf, I deserve to lose 😅

Mel has said that exact same thing when I was shouting she was wolf. She was wolf.

 

[SportPonies]

Oh god you’re one of those.
Shorty would be proud.
I gotta say, it doesn’t look good. But I can’t think sporty would be that obvious when wolfing. Like testing the waters on you then backing off. I’m having a hard time remembering her wolf play, I think last time was MHA and she went down because of a rojo and interaction checks. I’m curious.

The last time I wolfed was MHA, yes

Also I see mel voted for me so y’all be aware I won’t be defending much today. I’m at work and then going to meet a fancy (sport) pony afterwards as I mentioned in horsing-around yesterday.

I’m not really sure where I feel dead set on voting today since samac and April sound better to me than they did D1 (and stoat?)

I can buy the fluff thing but I can’t tell if that’s power of suggestion so I’m struggling to actually place my vote there right now. And I’m not getting my Mel heart read either but he’s played different in recent games than he used to.

 

[SportPonies]

Mel has said that exact same thing when I was shouting she was wolf. She was wolf.

Do you think she’s a wolf this game?
I’m scared because I’m almost willing to call her villagey

 

[Aprilthearab]

I had a dream last night that Vis was a wolf again and I was like GOD DAMMIT I CANT GET ANYTHING RIGHT AROUND HERE

 

[samac]

Do you think she’s a wolf this game?
I’m scared because I’m almost willing to call her villagey

I do think she’s playing more village AM than wolf AM.
I’m triggered by people saying they’re willing to lose to her if she’s a wolf though. Bad memories.

 

[Zenge142]

@vetmedhead do you have any reads you could share?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

is anyone else getting heebie jeebies at a lot of shelter's posts sounding like they've seen more games than they actually have?

Still catching up on the thread, but re: this, I played the speed game and totted BoWWnty Hunting where tons of the discussion in tot chat was based off of how players "usually" sound. I'm basing my opinions on what others said in tot chat and the main thread for BoWWnty Hunting. In my buddy PM I'm also getting guidance on normal tone for players.

 

[cubsrule4e]

Frame 2 Official Voting Tally

Vis (2) - Lawpy, zuri
Meats (2) - AM, Zenge
Violet (1) - April
OctoDoc (2) - bluey, Truey
zuri (-)
sporty (1) - Mel

Ineligible: samac

8/20: many missing votes

Day close: TODAY 10PM EST/9PM CST/7PM FANTASYLAND

Please let me know if we missed any votes in the overnight craziness.

 

[alleycat03]

Holy mother of god you would think Cray was in this game with the notifications I woke up to Alley

Bro I was like 13 pages behind when I first started catching up. Then more pages were generated as I was reading. When there’s like 750 posts for me to read, I feel like they deserve some reactions as I read and process them! I had a feeling you were going to compare me to cray for my late-night catchup

 

[Lawpy]

/Lawpy in

 

[Lawpy]

Hold pls as i catch up smoothly

 

[Lawpy]

Official Frame 2 Vote Tally

Vis (1) - LAwpy (cont.)
Meats (2) - AM, Zenge
Violet (1) - April

Ineligible - Samac

Missing: Many

Vote close Saturday 10PM ET

View attachment 348735

Marking this tally since i last checked in

 

[Lawpy]

@puppydogtor you mentioned Octo has more knowledge than you’d expect in your PM. How active has the PM been? Any particular knowledge?

Wait that reminds me. Has @OctopusDoctorpus even checked in?

 

[Truenamer]

Wait that reminds me. Has @OctopusDoctorpus even checked in?

Both Stoat and I (independently) voted for him to get some kind of response or defense, and I haven't seen anything in this thread from him. Are we confident that he's still playing?

 

[Lawpy]

@Truenamer I didn't know this either but apparently it's uncommon to use the thumbs down on the SDN forum, even though we use it in twitter group chats. Just fyi

It is? Dislike reacts are fine and not that uncommon. It’s only the inappropriate reacts you need to avoid using because of the moderator notification.

 

[alleycat03]

I did indeed answer that when stoat brought it up later. I was waiting to get back there on my catch-up first.

Can you please quote it if you get a chance? I can’t find it and I have no idea where you answered it.

 

[Lawpy]

Both Stoat and I (independently) voted for him to get some kind of response or defense, and I haven't seen anything in this thread from him. Are we confident that he's still playing?

Idk i’m more wary that he’ll only show up just before day close and contribute to crazy wagoning with little to no explanation

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Both Stoat and I (independently) voted for him to get some kind of response or defense, and I haven't seen anything in this thread from him. Are we confident that he's still playing?

I think puppy (?) is his PM partner and I believe they were saying OctoDocto was PMing with them. Maybe he's scared/nervous about saying something on main thread?

 

[Lawpy]

sorry just getting caught up now, but I haven't heard from violet since an initial hello exchange we had... she asked me for my reads and i shared some impressions and asked for the same and haven't heard anything... i'm assuming she's busy?

Hmm

 

[alleycat03]

Can you explain why Visc is in your wolf reads?Actually I’ve seen Visc’s name on a lot of people’s wolf list, can anyone give me a TL;DR of why?

I keep going back and forth on AM and Sporty the more I stare at their posts. I'm moving AM into my neutrals for now and




###Unvote Zuri###
###Vote Sporty###

Because she’s acting normal to me, which means she’s potentially a wolf simply because I can’t read her and discern whether or not she’s a wolf. She was wolfing in the casino game and I literally defended her a couple of posts before AM vig shot her. So I’m leaving her there because I now have a heightened awareness that I can’t correctly read her and I don’t want to mistakenly put her in my village bloc again.

 

[Truenamer]

I think puppy (?) is his PM partner and I believe they were saying OctoDocto was PMing with them. Maybe he's scared/nervous about saying something on main thread?

I understand to a degree, but I was informed by others that he was pretty enthusiastic about playing. Feels weird to go from that to total radio silence unless there's some kind of reason. And mostly, I just want him to chime in and tell me the reason.

 

[alleycat03]

Yeah, I would also be interested in hearing the reasoning.

Personally, I've gone ahead and decided that if AM ends up being a wolf, I deserve to lose 😅

A lot of people have said that before

 

[SportPonies]

Can you please quote it if you get a chance? I can’t find it and I have no idea where you answered it.

When I’m home I can. Won’t be for a while. It was a relatively short message during my catch up yesterday

 

[Lawpy]

@puppydogtor you mentioned Octo has more knowledge than you’d expect in your PM. How active has the PM been? Any particular knowledge?

The PM was pretty active on Wednesday and since then has died down a lot - we're on the second page of our PM's. I get the feeling Octo is really overwhelmed by the amount of posts in the thread because twice now in the PM he has stated that he is trying to read/catch up. He has given me a few reads too, but most have been piggybacking off of what other people have said. As for their knowledge, they haven't asked me much about how the game works and they know how to ISO (although it is not super hard to figure out on your own). Feels like a noob who has a good understanding of the game for not having played before.

I’m wondering if some of their knowledge may come from another source like wolfchat and if you have a 2 page PM that’s been significantly more active than he’s been on thread.
If I could vote that is where I would put it right now to see what he does today. He talked a lot about pressure with ivy. He could use some.

Yeah, going to agree with samacs here. This is weird.

 

[samac]

Wait that reminds me. Has @OctopusDoctorpus even checked in?

I don’t think he has this cycle 🙁

 

[alleycat03]

Still catching up on the thread, but re: this, I played the speed game and totted BoWWnty Hunting where tons of the discussion in tot chat was based off of how players "usually" sound. I'm basing my opinions on what others said in tot chat and the main thread for BoWWnty Hunting. In my buddy PM I'm also getting guidance on normal tone for players.

Posts like this are what convinces me that pshelty is a villager

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I understand to a degree, but I was informed by others that he was pretty enthusiastic about playing. Feels weird to go from that to total radio silence unless there's some kind of reason. And mostly, I just want him to chime in and tell me the reason.

Yeah, what happened was he popped in during the last half of the noob game and said he wanted to join and be a wolf. He was directed to speed game signups and didn't join but decided to come in for this game. I think either on the signups or early in this thread he said something about being excited to be a wolf but virtual radio silence since then. My social anxiety can relate to being nervous about posting on thread but it's very suspicious for him to be so excited and then ghost the game.

 

[Lawpy]

I'll help

Yeet @OctopusDoctorpus

Still at work I know I have accumulated "prove yourself, wolfy vermin!" side-eye going

Thinking about this. This is at least consistent with your earlier reads but still waiting on your explanation, if you haven’t done so already.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Not game related, but last night I dreamed that someone posted a gif of a person imitating a wolf's howl and I was like "yeet them! There's a wolf!"
I can't deny my newfound WW addiction.

 

[Lawpy]

Frame 2 Official Voting Tally

Vis (2) - Lawpy, zuri
Meats (2) - AM, Zenge
Violet (1) - April
OctoDoc (1) - blue, True
zuri (1) - Mel

Ineligible: samac

8/23: many missing votes

Day close: 10PM EST/9PM CST/7PM FANTASYLAND 1/22/22


View attachment 348724

Noting this tally

 

[Lawpy]

I have a hard time believing a pack with Vissy in it would kill the person with her at the top of the reads list. We also did some bonding last night. I don’t think she’s a wolf.

Is this because you think wolf!vissy in particular won’t allow this? Or is this something you believe a wolf wouldn’t do in general?

 

[Viscernable]

I disagree. She's a lot more hedgey as a wolf.

I feel like it’s genwrally a more polished hedginess, like making long, more formal reads with extensive waffling in reasoning/going to pains to consider all angles (I think mostly in an effort to look more fair and logical), not the unpolished rumination there

 

[vetmedhead]

@vetmedhead do you have any reads you could share?

Yes, working on them, just give me a moment. I fell asleep reading thread last night and have a monsterous number of quotes saved so expanding on my thoughts is gonna take a minute

That being said, on catching up I am liking April and alley better (I mention them specifically since they were my main commentary on D1) - April has more content that reads pro-village to me than some of the hedgier and more avoidant behavior I had been seeing earlier and she's been independently bringing up lines of questioning and avoiding some easier voting wagons. I like some of her steers away from some NKA discussions on thread.

Alley is still more of a tone read to me atm but on thread her more recent posts just remind me of her village play (from a billion years ago whenever I last played with her). Her recent posts I think have good lines of reasoning for how she engages with other people's POEs. Not a ton of content from our PM though because we've mostly just joked about being behind on catch up and talked about dating apps lol. That being said

Less expansive (and none of these rambling thoughts are ordered), but:

currently leaning true, stoatling, Mel, zenge, am village. I begrudgingly have lawpy leaning village too even though I always want to make him wolfy because of how he questions people lol. That being said, true's recent sporty iso gave me bad feelings, particularly the opening saying they aren't outright calling sporty a wolf but everything she does is perfectly wolfish behavior and then spending what looks like an exhausting amount of time on that iso - why go through that effort and then not even lean confidently on a read?

I need to think more/see more on wO2, doc ock, potshelter, and puppy to form opinions on them. Some just haven't posted enough for me to lean one way or another and some I think I have just been confusing with other players and I need to tease them out a bit.

I feel weird about sporty but iirc I tend to find her prickly and weird in games so I always feel weird trying to confidently read her one way or another. How many times can I use the word "weird" in a sentence? I am leaning her very marginally on the wolfy side of neutral but as mentioned above I didn't like that true post and I'm trying to reconcile those two feelings as I don't particularly see true and sporty being in a wolf pack together.

I do not know what people are seeing in visc as I have found her posts to be largely village leaning.

I don't really have an opinion of samac yet, which I find strange. Need to look at her closer today.

Ivy reads so strongly nooby that it's hard sometimes to gauge an actual read on her. That being said I still lean her village side of nooby rather than wolfy.

I do see what others are talking about with VV and zuri and may end up voting there today. I also keep getting occasional pings from YK. Also, while I still think fluff is village, there was a comment she made back when I posted about the NKA when I was catching up that rubbed me the wrong way when I officially caught up to that part in thread. I need to dig it up but it just felt like a misrepresentation of who said what and read strangely to me.

 

[vetmedhead]

I think that is the whole roster. I said it wasn't going to be expansive and then wrote that so god only knows what I think a truly expansive post is. More after I manage to get out of bed and feed myself something

 

[Lawpy]

By the way: anytime I type a response on the forum my sister says, "Are you Werewolfing? You're typing furiously over there." Apparently I type differently in WW compared to any other time.

Get your sister to play WW pls