BOWWLING TOURNAMENT GAME THREAD

[justafluff]

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Only? Good grief lol.
So Mel never was able to protect True since True died before that day cycle?
I am really, really trying not to reveal someone else's role so sorry if I'm being dodgy.

No yeah I know. I’m trying to avoid that too. But do you think that what you know conflicts with Mel’s claims? I don’t want to go after Mel if he’s telling the truth.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

conflicts with Mel’s claims

Mel's claim that he tried to protect True D3 but True died before that could happen since Mel's protection is only from day cycle yeet? No, it doesn't conflict with that.

 

[vetmedhead]

************* I see that personhood has been granted to the wolves, while we humble stoats of the village are gutterballs, strikes, pins, and shoes. I object to this two-dimensional village representation and petition to hereafter be listed as "Marchioness Azul, Strike, Vanillager." The good Marquess should also be appropriately titled. Perhaps Marquess Veracity of the Gutterball.*************

👞👞👞👞👞👞👞👞
Idk, I liked being shoes. I got that clickety clack action that just really brings some ~style~ to things

Spoiler: ~and some zest~

👞👞👞👞👞👞👞👞

 

[Lawpy]

I’m not sure. I haven’t looked at interactions at all.

So part of the reason why i was assailing zenges is that he’s voting in a way to create any possible resistance when his packmate is in danger (see his voting patterns D1 and a very delayed vissy vote D3). Zenges appeared to accelerate the fluffy wagon D2 that contributed to the crazy last minute wagonomics. It doesn’t make sense for zenges to do that to wolf!fluffy given his behavior towards vissy.

 

[samac]

@Melchizedek okay. I’ll bite. Who’s left in a pack with AM?

 

[cubsrule4e]

Frame 4 Official Vote Tally

Mel (6) - April, fluff, samac, Lawpy, puppy, AM
Sporty (-)
Fluff (1) - Sporty
AM (1) - Mel
Violet (1) - YK

9/12

Leading: @Melchizedek
Missing: @alleycat03 @potentialsheltervet @violetvett

Day Close: TODAY (9 hrs) 10PM EST/9PM CST/8PM MST/7PM Fantasyland

 

[youngkal]

N2.
You said something about April that would conflict with what Mel is claiming. That’s what I’m trying to figure out
YK because she’s pushing a violet vote out of nowhere. But if Mel’s innocent, then a YK vote doesn’t make sense.
@youngkal Mel claims he protected you but you re probably wolf and that vis blocked you so that you can have village cred. Yet you still avoid voting for Mel. Why is that??

im sorry what?? i dont follow

 

[Lawpy]

Here’s what i’m thinking currently

Mels, alleys, puppy, pshelty

In the event Mels is village, we should consider AM and look into puppy and pshelty more closely.

I don’t think AM is compatible with alleys.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

we should consider AM and look into puppy and pshelty more closely

But hwhy

 

[Lawpy]

But hwhy

D1 and D2 voting patterns

 

[Lawpy]

Could both violet and fluff be villagers, but violet just role revealed and wolves want to go for a chance at a PR on fluff?

Pretty sure octos was onto something here

 

[samac]

Zenge’s comments on/to Mel

 

[Aprilthearab]

Zenge’s comments on/to Mel

Did your quotes poof

 

[samac]

Oh
My god SDN ate it
God dammit

 

[samac]

….
I’ll do it again.

 

[Aprilthearab]

….
I’ll do it again.

You're the real MVP

 

[samac]

OH WAIT THEYRE ON MY CLIPBOARD

Wait what? Then why is True dead?

Edit: oh, nevermind, I misunderstood.

I was trying to decided between Sporty and Mel being a wolf. Since Sporty is clear now, as far as I’m concerned, Mel’s out of my neutrals down in the Wolf reads.

Village:
Animal Midwife - Still feel good about my read here. My strongest village read.

samac - I’m seeing a lot of wild off the wall energy that I expect from village Samac. She’s asking the right questions and making the right pushes I expect from a villager.

Lawpy - His posts make sense. I mostly follow his logic. The stubbornness was frustrating but I don’t think Lawpy is a wolf.

Aprilthearab - Her push on Vis was genuine, and early. 100% a villager.

puppydogtor - Position on the vis vote was gold. Unless there’s some wacky bussing going on, this is a villager.

potentialsheltervet - PSV still feels like a noob villager. I’m not seeing anything that’s pinging me. Slight village read here.

SportPonies - Her position on the Vis vote cements this as a villager for me. I’m still freaked out by her asking for the vig to role reveal. For that she’s staying at the bottom of my village reads.

Neutral:
justafluff - Nothing useful from the vis vote to move Fluff one way or another. Vis’s lack of push here is concerning though.

Youngkal - I’m not seeing anything that makes me think this is a villager. BUT Vissy’s push here only makes sense if this is a villager. Neutral for now.

Wolfy:
violetvett - At this point I feel like I was played by the role reveal. I haven’t seen any posts that makes me think this is a villager. Very little concrete analysis that I feel good about.

Alleycat03 - I think I gave her too much credit for early game. Her latest pushes, me especially feels off and disingenuous. I think she was buddying up with me so that if she went down it would make me look bad. I’m disappointed I fell into this trap.

Melchizedek - April and AM in his POE should have been the last straw. His reads have made no sense, his pushes make no sense. This is a wolf and 100% where I’d be voting today. If Mel doesn’t flip wolf, just vote me out. I don’t want to deal with being this wrong and fighting off the misyeet all cycle.

I mean Mel says he can’t be voted out. Seems perilous, no?

I would be voting for Mel. I can’t vote though.

Mel shading and prepping to bus a noob in his pack doesn’t surprise me in the least.

 

[samac]

No. That’s not all of them.
Why do I do this?

 

[Lawpy]

Wait so walk me through this

Mels self protected in N3 from yeet in D4 and he can use self protect only once right?

 

[violetvett]

D2 Mel Iso - This is a massive one, so not including N2.

Spoiler: MASSIVE ISO

After WZ's and genny's deaths:

You died before I could dig up the quote. That was a dirty kill. I’m trying not to tunnel new players, but half the roster is new players and this reeks of noob!wolf getting spooked by power villaging.

Don’t think WZ was vig’d because she was on most people’s village lists I believe

Well, this was correct if samac's own-up to the genny vig shot is true. Which Mel would have 100% known if a wolf. Hmm.

Samac is a strong village read for me right now based on her questions for zenge, and I track her over all thought process. I also like that she doesn't hesitate to disagree with some people. Feels like a VT.


This post in particular makes me feel like she's paying attention and trying to evaluate others. Looks like genuine wolf-hunting to me.

Again

Why is sporty in your wolfreads?

I don’t like her push on Samac

Just something to note if Mel flips wolf. I'm still reading samac as village though. I wonder if this could have been coordinated between Vis and Mel to earn samac's trust, as Vis was samac's PM partner?

Spoiler: Zuri/Mel interaction

What makes you think I’m remotely afraid of you? Your cowtapult will once again prove your poor judgement 😛

Vote @zuriburi

But my current biggest suspicions are of viscernable… I think this might be noob bias but true looking into am and concluding that they’re always antagonistic without collecting precise data points and examples feels like a totally reasonable thing to do, and I feel like the way that vis needled at that behavior while also claiming to be going easy on true for being a noob feels like some shady attempts to cast legitimate detective work as nooby bumbling. I know some other people have mentioned suspicions and hesitancies with those suspicions so I’d love to know what others’ rationales are, but for me…
unyeet truenamer
yeet viscernable

I don't like this logic.

I understand what Zuri is getting at, that visc was casting doubt over True's analysis of AM, but I don't think that's what Visc was doing. Like I pointed out before, the natural response to someone saying "oh hey I noticed this thing, and I believe in it strong enough to come on thread and say someone is village/town" is to ask "okay well what was the thing"

If True had provided us with examples and Visc went through and systematically tried to shoot down the examples or discredit True, or something more aggressive than follow up questions, I'd buy into Zuri's theory.

I also questioned True's AM read, but zuri singled out Visc over me. Inconsistency in applying their wolf-hunting logic.

And because

yeah my vote is still for vis on the simple logic that WildZoo had implicated them with a whole methodology and then got ate. i think it's easy to get wrapped up on reads on reads on reads, but to me the most suspicious people are the ones who WildZoo directly implicated so...

still yeet @Viscernable

This is not a great look for several reasons:
1. Using a dead villager's reads to push someone weirds me out because its sheeping someone without providing original content.
2. See above for the original reason Zuri had for voting Visc. Now its because WZ had Visc as a wolf read. This kind of fluctuating reasoning reads like a wolf flailing to justify their vote because they don't really have a strong reason to be there in the first place.

Mel defended Vis D1 and D2, and voted zuri for it. Mel does provide reasoning for his vote, and I agree that zuri's reasoning was somewhat flawed, but Mel ignores the fact that zuri is a noob and the possibility that's why zuri is using "simplistic" reasoning. I also don't understand the "fluctuating reasoning" thing, as you can have multiple reasons to vote for someone, that doesn't mean your reasoning "fluctuating". It also kind of feels weird and dirty to be targeting two noobs (both zuri and True) in the same post, too.

[[[Ugh SDN ate my quotes here but Zuri further explained and then Mel brought up Zuri mentioning stoat and april, drawing attention away from Vis.]]]

Its okay, I don't think you've ever been right about me being a wolf. Guess the difference is that I learn from my mistakes 😛

Ominous quote is ominous.

Can you explain why Visc is in your wolf reads?Actually I’ve seen Visc’s name on a lot of people’s wolf list, can anyone give me a TL;DR of why?

I keep going back and forth on AM and Sporty the more I stare at their posts. I'm moving AM into my neutrals for now and


###Unvote Zuri###
###Vote Sporty###

Hmmm. Mel REALLY doesn't think Vis is a wolf, even though Vis has been brought up by multiple people now, including several confirmed villagers. The Sporty and AM suspicions don't help Mel's case either, especially since it seems like Mel got the Sporty vote from True's major ISO. Where did the "come up with your own original thoughts" sentiment go, Mel?

Wait you’ve had AM in your wolf reads?
Why?

no she was in my "village but not out of POE" from her D1 posts, but I get a different read on her everytime I look at her ISO.

Sheepish vibes, plus zero examples.

This is a contradiction.

Oh look, AM agrees with me yay

I thought you said you moved her up to neutrals? Is neutral above village leaning in POE?

That is NOT what I said.

No, Mel said instead

I keep going back and forth on AM and Sporty the more I stare at their posts. I'm moving AM into my neutrals for now and

Isn't it kind of implied though to say "yeah I'm thinking AM or Sporty" would mean you're thinking they're both wolfy, especially if you then vote Sporty? Idk, it's sketchy.

For the record, I would never kill Dubz D1 when she was village reading me. I’d drag her to end game and rub it in her face

This will either age well or very, very poorly.

Sporty was on my radar initially for her Samac push. Samac feels village based on stuff I pointed out earlier and has continued to read that way. Sporty's most recent posts haven't moved her closer to village in any way. Lots of hedging. I especially didn't like the real quick 180 on True True.

AM, IDK. Maybe I'm just sick of losing to her and am being jumpy about her

Here's Mel defending samac again. AM was brought up before by Mel as a potential woof though, so it's not new to today. Important note, especially if Mel somehow flips village as I don't think they're compatible.

I'd back a Violet, Fluff, or Sporty vote today. I still don't think Visc is a wolf.

Still defending Vis yet again. Also, all of his votes are targeted towards village-leaning people right now, which doesn't look great.

[Then there's a bunch of posts accusing me, but Mel doesn't really contribute to this at all. Neither did Zenge or Vis, which is interesting, even after my role reveal. Mel posts again 10 minutes before the deadline ]

@justafluff what is your read on meats?

Seems kind of out there, and reminds me of how Vis was also trying to talk less about the 3 of us on the chopping block (me, Octo, Ivy (and sort-of Sporty)) and instead bring up other players.

Unvote whoever vote fluff

Last minute wolfy waffle is wolfy. For the record, "whoever" was Sporty.

So overall, D2 for Mel was full of defending Vis and backing samac, not really making input for the common votes of the time, and a sudden Sporty-to-fluff waffle.

 

[violetvett]

Side note, in hindsight, @zuriburi was doing super well with those wolfreads. They were sus of both Vis and Zenge pretty early on, good job!

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Wait so walk me through this

Mels self protected in N3 from yeet in D4 and he can use self protect only once right?

That is what he's claiming but it is unclear. He might be lying and planning to self protect tomorrow or he might be telling the truth. It's a mystery.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Mels, alleys, puppy, pshelty

In the event Mels is village, we should consider AM and look into puppy and pshelty more closely.

Lawpy can you clarify for me your process here? This is your proposed pack but why would Mel being village just make you sub in AM for Mel?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Lawpy can you clarify for me your process here? This is your proposed pack but why would Mel being village just make you sub in AM for Mel?

Last note on this, but I think 6 wolves is probably too big of a pack for this game, especially since Vis and Zenge both had special abilities. I don't think the mods would be that unfair to village. At least, I hope not.

 

[cubsrule4e]

Not a requirement but a suggestion:

For large quote walls with/without commentary we often put them in spoiler tags: Place "[ spoiler]" at the beginning and "[/spoiler]" (not with the quotes) at the end to place a large post into a drop down icon. Helps to keep the pages shorter and less overwhelming.

 

[Lawpy]

That is what he's claiming but it is unclear. He might be lying and planning to self protect tomorrow or he might be telling the truth. It's a mystery.

Then i think we should yeet Mels today

 

[Lawpy]

Lawpy can you clarify for me your process here? This is your proposed pack but why would Mel being village just make you sub in AM for Mel?

Because Mels vs AM is looking V/W to me

Last note on this, but I think 6 wolves is probably too big of a pack for this game, especially since Vis and Zenge both had special abilities. I don't think the mods would be that unfair to village. At least, I hope not.

I think there are 5 wolves. I’m just laying out my thoughts who the remaining wolves could be.

 

[Melchizedek]

@Melchizedek okay. I’ll bite. Who’s left in a pack with AM?

Looking at Lawper if AM flips wolf. YK was the only one raising flags about zenge early game and they both talked her out of it. I haven’t dug into Lawper’s other interactions with Visc. And Zenge yet.
Is there anything off the top of your head that would make Lawper incompatible?

If I flip wolf, who’s left that I’m compatible with?
If I flip village who is your next vote besides AM?

 

[samac]

Here it is. For real. If it breaks I quit this game
Edited to add spoiler tags

Spoiler

I’m not known for reading Mel well, but why do you say that?

This feels weird to me. The votes on Mel at this point were jokes, Lawpy, Dubz, Vis (at least that’s how I interpreted them), but this feels like trying to add legitimacy and grow the largest wagon by throwing shade from a distance. It’s not much but this pings me.

Okay, now that you’re back can you explain your April vote? That felt like it came out of nowhere.

So you’re voting for someone you weren’t actually wolf reading?

Yeet Mel.

TF is beetlejuicing?

I’ve been slowly coming around on Fluff. I liked their play in the later part of yesterday’s cycle, but it did come after pressure started building so that’s something to take into consideration I guess.
Neutral on VV. Need to see more. 12 posts so far isn’t a lot to analyze with.

As for this, I could see that interpretation, but it’s a smoking gun I’d yeet anyone over.

I’m going to start by yeeting meats, but I had the same thought as Mel here:


Yeet Meats

@Melchizedek what do you think about Sporty’s vote for Fluffy?

Me in every game I’ve ever played with Mel.

Wait what? Then why is True dead?

Edit: oh, nevermind, I misunderstood.

I was trying to decided between Sporty and Mel being a wolf. Since Sporty is clear now, as far as I’m concerned, Mel’s out of my neutrals down in the Wolf reads.

I mean Mel says he can’t be voted out. Seems perilous, no?

I would be voting for Mel. I can’t vote though.

Mel shading and prepping to bus a noob in his pack doesn’t surprise me in the least.

 

[puppydogtor]

I could definitely see AM, Lawpy, and Zenge all wolfing together. If Mel flips wolf, I don't know where I would want to look next

 

[violetvett]

Not a requirement but a suggestion:

For large quote walls with/without commentary we often put them in spoiler tags: Place "[ spoiler]" at the beginning and "[/spoiler]" (not with the quotes) at the end to place a large post into a drop down icon. Helps to keep the pages shorter and less overwhelming.

Oh shoot I forgot to do that! I can edit that lol, sorry for the wall everyone.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I could definitely see AM, Lawpy, and Zenge all wolfing together. If Mel flips wolf, I don't know where I would want to look next

I don't see two Kirbys in a pack though. /s

 

[Lawpy]

I could definitely see AM, Lawpy, and Zenge all wolfing together. If Mel flips wolf, I don't know where I would want to look next

This only reinforces the wolfread on you especially the bolded

 

[cubsrule4e]

Oh shoot I forgot to do that! I can edit that lol, sorry for the wall everyone.

Not a problem! My defiant WW wife Samac clearly not worried about it!

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I must take a nap but I will return before vote close

 

[violetvett]

Still working on Mel's ISO right now but I do think Lawpy would be an interesting person of interest, since I feel like they've been going pretty unnoticed overall. I'm sure Lawpy's been brought up before and there's reasons for those village-leans but I haven't looked into that yet.

 

[puppydogtor]

This only reinforces the wolfread on you especially the bolded

Again, pretty sure you're one of the only people actually wolf reading me.

If I'm being totally honest, I am definitely fatigued. It doesn't feel like only D4 to me and with classes going in person/full speed this week, I really don't feel like doing ISO's to support my reasoning because they feel more like a chore than fun atm.

I also find it interesting how you respond to my messages. You either say that they're wolfy or you misinterpret/ignore them. I think I had really solid reasoning as to why I killed VMH and that I definitely wasn't looking to gain village cred. You've never been a village read to me. I'm honestly contemplating unyeeting Mel now

 

[Lawpy]

Looking at Lawper if AM flips wolf. YK was the only one raising flags about zenge early game and they both talked her out of it. I haven’t dug into Lawper’s other interactions with Visc. And Zenge yet.
Is there anything off the top of your head that would make Lawper incompatible?

If I flip wolf, who’s left that I’m compatible with?
If I flip village who is your next vote besides AM?

Talking YK out of her zenges read is a bit much. I’ve been cross questioning both zenges and YK on their reads of each other and was trying to understand whether this post affected YK’s read of zenges

I feel like this is a reasonable point by Fluff and I wanted to see where it was going to go.

Now keep in mind that zenges was using fluffy’s reasoning D1 to justify his vote on YK before later proceeding to assail fluffy in D2.

 

[samac]

Looking at Lawper if AM flips wolf. YK was the only one raising flags about zenge early game and they both talked her out of it. I haven’t dug into Lawper’s other interactions with Visc. And Zenge yet.
Is there anything off the top of your head that would make Lawper incompatible?

If I flip wolf, who’s left that I’m compatible with?
If I flip village who is your next vote besides AM?

As far as I can tell you're compatible with alley, puppy, PSV. I need to look back at the timing when the alley/zenge fight went down. But Alley was the one I think who mentioned he brought up the timeline and made me doubt my soft clear. If it was her I don't see why a wolf would do that. PSV I need to look back through, she hasn't done anything that stands out as wolf but she might just be flying under my radar.
If you flip village I would consider Lawpy at that point and maybe that you caught a real rojo. I have strong suspicion you're going to flip wolf though.

With as hard as Zenge pushed fluffy I won't consider her. I won't consider sporty or April either.
Undecided on Violet.

 

[samac]

Not a problem! My defiant WW wife Samac clearly not worried about it!

I FIXED IT YOU JERK

 

[alleycat03]

alleys pls it looked like you had zenges in your village reads and began expressing doubts on him after the vissy flip. While it’s true others were reading zenges villagey, i’m not sure how this shows how you were reading zenges wolf when no one else did

I started questioning Zenge before Vis flipped. I stated that I needed to rethink my village reads and specifically listed several people who I was starting to reevaluate. Besides, why in the world would it be a good idea for me to lose 1 packmate and immediately decide to vote for and push my other packmate? I was literally voting for Zenge yesterday before the vig shot.

I literally did. We've been over this already.

You were extremely cagey and unclear about it, and I don't get why a straightforward question would be met with such resistance from you.

It was true. Lo and behold Zenge was trying to capitalize on the situation. Mel trying to get on there last second is what bothered me too.

It was NOT true. Scroll up to Fluffy's post on how many people were reading her as wolfy, neutral, and village throughout the game. There is no way "most" of the players were village reading her at that point in the game (D2 iirc). A lot of people were wolfreading her and voting for her before the average bowling score discussion she had with me and Violet.

I don't know what other things you're referring to but I don't see how confusing shelter/puppy can be anything but NAI.

Because intentionally causing confusion on thread when it is easily confirmable simply by scrolling up (by other players and yourself) is really odd. It is increasing confusion and when we need to coalsce into a village bloc you're directly impeding that.

 

[alleycat03]

Still wolfy imo. I think alleys vs zenges was a weird form of distancing

So now you think I'm a busser? Why? How does the supposed strategy of bussing Vis and voting zenge before the vig shot make any sense or equate to anything besides a villager voting for the people who are wolves??

 

[Lawpy]

Again, pretty sure you're one of the only people actually wolf reading me.

If I'm being totally honest, I am definitely fatigued. It doesn't feel like only D4 to me and with classes going in person/full speed this week, I really don't feel like doing ISO's to support my reasoning because they feel more like a chore than fun atm.

I also find it interesting how you respond to my messages. You either say that they're wolfy or you misinterpret/ignore them. I think I had really solid reasoning as to why I killed VMH and that I definitely wasn't looking to gain village cred. You've never been a village read to me. I'm honestly contemplating unyeeting Mel now

That’s because clearly there’s a wolf hiding in the village reads and you’re a good possibility, especially with your attacks on fluffy in D1 and D2.

I can understand the fatigue of 36/12s

That’s interesting because your reads were coming across as hedgy and not wanting to lean one way or another or trying to find something to grasp onto. You at one point said i’m neutral then gave me village points and then now i’m apparently never a village read. Also interesting you revisited the meaty daykill topic again.

The fact that you’re considering unyeeting Mels is noteworthy in itself

 

[puppydogtor]

@Lawpy How could I not consider unyeeting Mels?
We've all said that we need to reevaluate EVERYONE. Meats flipped village, Zenge flipped wolf. That's changed a lot of my reads and I'm about to get my thoughts together and share my updated reads list

 

[samac]

I forgot kal was even still alive until just now. That's how much those contributions have rang to me.

 

[alleycat03]

Zenge’s comments on/to Mel

I thought you were making a broad statement that they had no interactions lmao

 

[Lawpy]

@Lawpy How could I not consider unyeeting Mels?
We've all said that we need to reevaluate EVERYONE. Meats flipped village, Zenge flipped wolf. That's changed a lot of my reads and I'm about to get my thoughts together and share my updated reads list

Because it’s interesting meaty and zenges flips were significant enough for you to reconsider Mels

 

[Lawpy]

Reevaluating is something that should be considered but none of the events thus far changed my views on Mels

 

[puppydogtor]

@Lawpy I had both Sporty and Fluff in my neutral list for the longest time. Fluff was in my POE a lot too. Sporty killing Zenge moved them to the top of my village list and Zenge flipping wolf was yet another reason to move Fluff to my village list. My POE has shrunk significantly, so yeah, I need to reevaluate my vote on Mel as well as my reads on everyone

 

[alleycat03]

Lawpy can you clarify for me your process here? This is your proposed pack but why would Mel being village just make you sub in AM for Mel?

When Mel flips village, then you should be removing me from that pack because there is no way I am compatible with AM either