BOWWLING TOURNAMENT GAME THREAD

Started by cubsrule4e
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alleycat03 said:
I started questioning Zenge before Vis flipped. I stated that I needed to rethink my village reads and specifically listed several people who I was starting to reevaluate. Besides, why in the world would it be a good idea for me to lose 1 packmate and immediately decide to vote for and push my other packmate? I was literally voting for Zenge yesterday before the vig shot.
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Because you realized your packmate could be in grave danger after the outcome of the vissy flip and want to distance yourself?
 
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violetvett said:
Still working on Mel's ISO right now but I do think Lawpy would be an interesting person of interest, since I feel like they've been going pretty unnoticed overall. I'm sure Lawpy's been brought up before and there's reasons for those village-leans but I haven't looked into that yet.
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He also was mentioned in the Vis rojo/fauxjo. Don't forget that. Maybe it was a real rojo. I just don't see why hes continuing to push the narrative that I am a wolf after the Zenge flip
 
samac said:
As far as I can tell you're compatible with alley, puppy, PSV. I need to look back at the timing when the alley/zenge fight went down. But Alley was the one I think who mentioned he brought up the timeline and made me doubt my soft clear. If it was her I don't see why a wolf would do that. PSV I need to look back through, she hasn't done anything that stands out as wolf but she might just be flying under my radar.
If you flip village I would consider Lawpy at that point and maybe that you caught a real rojo. I have strong suspicion you're going to flip wolf though.

With as hard as Zenge pushed fluffy I won't consider her. I won't consider sporty or April either.
Undecided on Violet.
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I was the one who mentioned that Zenge brought up the timeline of his D1 voting. I agree with your reasonings on other people besides Mel. I still think Mel is village.
 
samac said:
Why are you so sure Mel will flip village to say when?
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Because he is a strong village read of mine, and has been for a while. I have given up on convincing the rest of you of that. Pretty much everyone is stuck in the "Mel is a wolf tunnel" and I don't buy it. I will let you all say "I told you so" if I am wrong, but I really don't think I am.
 
alleycat03 said:
So now you think I'm a busser? Why? How does the supposed strategy of bussing Vis and voting zenge before the vig shot make any sense or equate to anything besides a villager voting for the people who are wolves??
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I think the wolves were clearly blindsided by the vig shot. The D3 vissy wagon was not pure and heavily susceptible to bussing.
 
Lawpy said:
Because you realized your packmate could be in grave danger after the outcome of the vissy flip and want to distance yourself?
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There's way better ways to distance from packmates than immediately bussing and writing up numerous posts on why I think Zenge is a wolf. I don't see how the way I approached Zenge before and after the Vis flip would indicate I'm a wolf at all.
 
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alleycat03 said:
BTW, people can village read you as a wolf and as a villager, and if they're a wolf they can push you as a misyeet. Just because she defended you does not clear her as a villager. If she is a wolf, she knows your affilation and can defend you and get you to village read her since she's defending you. If you're village reading her solely because she defended you, then she's pocketing you.
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alleycat03 said:
I was right about Meats and about Zenge. I was also right about Vis, as she was in my wolf reads the entire game. Are my reads perfect? No. I defended VMH because nobody could actually explain to me what was so wolfy about her, and nothing she had done in PMs or on thread actually seemed as wolfy as AM claimed it was.
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Maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to take alley out of my POE.
 
Lawpy said:
I think the wolves were clearly blindsided by the vig shot. The D3 vissy wagon was not pure and heavily susceptible to bussing.
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I voted Zenge well before the vig shot and posted my whole explanation of the "low hanging fruit" argument. Hours before he was shot. I had no intention of changing or removing my Zenge vote. I know that I cannot "prove" that I wouldn't move my vote, but you can tell that I have been pushing Zenge for several days ever since I said I was re-evaluating my reads.
 
potentialsheltervet said:
I can't find the post but I remember Mel at one point saying "If I'm wrong you can yeet me tomorrow" which is bugging me because it's either being truthful with the goal of tripping us up (Mel used the ability and it's protecting him today) or he's hoping we'll believe him for the shiggles (he's protecting himself tomorrow).
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He said it this fiscal cycle in reference to voting me.
 
alleycat03 said:
If Lawpy is a wolf then I’ve been completely tricked. I have not seen him as a wolf, but I would expect him to act at least a little bit different from the other games I’ve played with him while he’s been a villager.

Samac and pshelter both feel village to me. Same with the other people I mentioned, like Zenge and puppy. But I’m 100% getting paranoid that any of them could be a wolf who snuck into my village reads too easily.

But it’s been a few days (plus the modkills) of only villagers dying, and I feel like we need to catch a wolf pretty badly, so when the people I was wolf reading don’t seem wolfy anymore, then there’s something wrong with my reads. But I haven’t figured out yet what is wrong with my reads and why they aren’t meshing right in my brain anymore.
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alleys, this was posted only less than 2 days ago
 
My reads list:
Sporty killed Zenge so they're at the top of my list
Fluff because I like their posts lately and Zenge's death helped clear them
Pshelty because I always like their logic and have never seen anything wolfy from them
Violet because her later posts in the game read village and I think their role reveal was genuine as we've seen more roles in the game
Samac I still lean village but am a bit questionable of since they really didn't think Vis was a wolf and I'm not sure what to make of their vig shot
Alley because I agree with a lot of their posts/thought processes but some people are pretty suspicious of them
April because I've like a lot of their logic and their vote on Vis.
Kal I honestly don't remember much of the content of their posts so this is a ping for me to look into them more.
AM I've struggled with reading this game, but they backed Zenge so much, but also backed Fluff so idk.
Mel has been in my POE for a while now
Lawpy has gone under the radar a lot this game, is now pushing me and Alley a lot, and on D3 Lawpy only joined the Vis vote when it was really late and already at a majority, and after that had a contingency vote on Meaty yet doesn't understand my vig shot on Meaty, and then switched to Mel once Mel had a few votes already. It feels like Lawpy makes votes early but then sheeps later onto votes to feel as if he is agreeing with the village majority. He voted for Vis when Vis was already clearly going to die and he joined on the wagon for Mel once it was clear that villager Meaty wasn't going to be the one yeeted that day.
 
Mel ISO - N2 (split up since I have some questions for y'all)

Melchizedek said:
Go ahead and tell me that the ivy votes didn’t come out of nowhere. Since when has a last minute bandwagon helped village? I have ivy in my slightly out of neutral village zone. I’d rather vote for fluff over losing my PM partner on a last minute bandwagon tie situation
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Okay, this is decently reasonable, I guess.

Melchizedek said:
Fluff was up for vote D1 and has been talked about multiple times over the course of D2 for direct actions that are sketchy.

correct me if I'm wrong but I got the impression that people were finding Ivy sketchy but more out of absence and difficulty reading than anything overtly sketchy.

The votes for fluff may have come in quick succession after VV's reveal, but had solid reasoning behind them compared to what feels like to me as paranoia behind the Ivy wagon.

Do you have a different interpretation?
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Melchizedek said:
I guess I wasn't part of the majority that decided not wolfy. Like I said, I think Fluff's response to pressure was wolfy, there are a lot of posts today that felt like buddying/agreeing with a lot of thread consensus.
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To be fair, fluff also gave off "buddy" vibes in other games we've played, so it might just be in her nature 😆

Again, Mel's reasoning DOES make sense. Trying to avoid my pro-fluff bias I'm really hard village-reading fluff now. (Mainly because of the bowling averages thing, because I have ZERO clue how a wolf would have known what fluff did, unless a villager accidentally leaked it in a PM or smth.)

Lawpy said:
There’s a chance that vissy is pocketing samacs though.
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(Lol)

Melchizedek said:
Also why was it decided that fluff and VV are v/w? I'm starting to see even more evidence that its a VV/Fluff pack based on how today played out. It actually makes me even feel slightly better about Sporty.
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Sorry, I'm village, bud, but I'm biased here.

I then attempted my fluff bowling average "gotcha" and this was Mel's response.
Melchizedek said:
there are two assumptions here:
1. that wolves don't have averages
B. that all villagers would get an update at the same time, and not only if they've fulfilled the requirment.

but damn, you vomited village.
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Melchizedek said:
These requirements

You don't know if the mods are updating all the villagers, they could only be updating the ones that have met the requirements they set. This would mean some players could have gotten updated before now and others whose scores haven't changed wouldn't know.
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This was confusing to me, since I still haven't gotten any updates still on my bowling average. Actually, has anyone gotten an update on their bowling average yet? I feel like we'll all receive them at the end of the game, but this was some weird speculation that sounds like Mel either knows exactly how averages work, or no clue at all. But it would be kind of risky for a wolf to say, unless they're trying to defend alley/place mistrust on fluff? It's just really off and I would love a second opinion on this quote.
 
Melchizedek said:
Looking at Lawper if AM flips wolf. YK was the only one raising flags about zenge early game and they both talked her out of it. I haven’t dug into Lawper’s other interactions with Visc. And Zenge yet.
Is there anything off the top of your head that would make Lawper incompatible?

If I flip wolf, who’s left that I’m compatible with?
If I flip village who is your next vote besides AM?
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My boy. Your case on Lawpy is even weaker than your case on me and that's saying something.

Lawpy was the fourth person to vote Vis this game. For context, April was the sixth. Temper your howling.
 
Lawpy said:
Because you realized your packmate could be in grave danger after the outcome of the vissy flip and want to distance yourself?
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This is some hardcore BS. Alley should be lock!clear from the Zenge flip. I'm perfectly okay with my wolf read on you now.

Everyone talks about bussing like its some easy and quick decision. Bussing is innately detrimental to the wolfpack. Any village cred you gain automatically gets scrutinized for bus potential. The more wolves you lose, the more cycles you have to play, the more chances village has to find the busser out.

There was no reason for alley to bus Zenge that hard.
 
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Animal Midwife said:
My boy. Your case on Lawpy is even weaker than your case on me and that's saying something.

Lawpy was the fourth person to vote Vis this game. For context, April was the sixth. Temper your howling.
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You calling my case weak does not make it so. You also saying I'm howling doesn't speak it into reality.
 
Also, to finish N2 ISO
alleycat03 said:
It’s bordering on wolfy for me. And now I’m concerned because I thought AM was playing pro-village before the last few posts. But the disconnect over fluffy has really keyed me in to the fact that there’s some serious disagreement on how she’s viewing the game vs my viewpoint. I don’t think that “most” people decided on D1 that fluffy was a villager. If that was the case, then her yeet wagon today would not have grown that fast, even considering if there’s a wolf in that group. AM has really been pushing that she strongly believes fluff is a villager and has been outright denying that there’s a world where fluffy is a wolf
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Melchizedek said:
Here’s my problem and really the only thing keeping me from voting AM.


She would fight the pack to not kill Dubz D1. Doesn’t mean she couldn’t be overruled by the rest of the pack, but she would put up a fight to keep it from happening and most vets would respect that, and most noobs I think wouldn’t want to piss off their wolf mate from the get go like that.
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@Melchizedek what's your thoughts on AM killing Dubz D1 now, knowing Vis and Zenge were wolfmates?
 
violetvett said:
Also, to finish N2 ISO


@Melchizedek what's your thoughts on AM killing Dubz D1 now, knowing Vis and Zenge were wolfmates?
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He said that the N1 kill of Dubz is not something he is considering as a point towards village!AM anymore because there's been a game since the noob game. He said that earlier today.
 
puppydogtor said:
Lawpy has gone under the radar a lot this game, is now pushing me and Alley a lot, and on D3 Lawpy only joined the Vis vote when it was really late and already at a majority, and after that had a contingency vote on Meaty yet doesn't understand my vig shot on Meaty, and then switched to Mel once Mel had a few votes already. It feels like Lawpy makes votes early but then sheeps later onto votes to feel as if he is agreeing with the village majority. He voted for Vis when Vis was already clearly going to die and he joined on the wagon for Mel once it was clear that villager Meaty wasn't going to be the one yeeted that day.
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Ok this read looks really retaliatory. You keep thinking i’m going under the radar when i’m pretty much the most active and visible poster here and who’s getting actively smeared and mocked by wolves. That doesn’t make sense. Then you’re making it sound like me pushing you and alleys was something completely unsubstantiated and only came today, even though i’ve been discussing this topic and the chaos of the D2 fluffy wagon for a while. You’re then distorting my points on you and voluntarily revisiting the meaty daykill topic while retroactively condemning me for voting there on D3. I was wolfreading and fighting with vissy for a long time but somehow you decided to gloss over that and condemn that move as sheeping the village consensus. The same goes for the Mels read. Also your argument doesn’t work for D2 but actually in fact condemns you for your contributions to the chaos surrounding the fluffy and ivymoosy wagons.
 
Melchizedek said:
This is some hardcore BS. Alley should be lock!clear from the Zenge flip. I'm perfectly okay with my wolf read on you now.

Everyone talks about bussing like its some easy and quick decision. Bussing is innately detrimental to the wolfpack. Any village cred you gain automatically gets scrutinized for bus potential. The more wolves you lose, the more cycles you have to play, the more chances village has to find the busser out.

There was no reason for alley to bus Zenge that hard.
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Your defense of alleys is noted
 
violetvett said:
This was confusing to me, since I still haven't gotten any updates still on my bowling average. Actually, has anyone gotten an update on their bowling average yet? I feel like we'll all receive them at the end of the game, but this was some weird speculation that sounds like Mel either knows exactly how averages work, or no clue at all. But it would be kind of risky for a wolf to say, unless they're trying to defend alley/place mistrust on fluff? It's just really off and I would love a second opinion on this quote.
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This is specifically targeted towards @justafluff and @alleycat03 , since we've discussed this before, but if anyone else wants to let me know, please do.
 
@Lawpy you might be one of the most active and visible posters here, but the majority of your content feels like unnecessary posts such as "Hmmm" and "___ pls" and "Not the okays." You are definitely present on thread, but I struggle with seeing you as village when the actual content of most of your posts early in the game was severely lacking
 
violetvett said:
Mel ISO - N2 (split up since I have some questions for y'all)


Okay, this is decently reasonable, I guess.



To be fair, fluff also gave off "buddy" vibes in other games we've played, so it might just be in her nature 😆

Again, Mel's reasoning DOES make sense. Trying to avoid my pro-fluff bias I'm really hard village-reading fluff now. (Mainly because of the bowling averages thing, because I have ZERO clue how a wolf would have known what fluff did, unless a villager accidentally leaked it in a PM or smth.)


(Lol)


Sorry, I'm village, bud, but I'm biased here.

I then attempted my fluff bowling average "gotcha" and this was Mel's response.


This was confusing to me, since I still haven't gotten any updates still on my bowling average. Actually, has anyone gotten an update on their bowling average yet? I feel like we'll all receive them at the end of the game, but this was some weird speculation that sounds like Mel either knows exactly how averages work, or no clue at all. But it would be kind of risky for a wolf to say, unless they're trying to defend alley/place mistrust on fluff? It's just really off and I would love a second opinion on this quote.
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I have not gotten any updates on my bowling average. It has been the same the entire time. I also didn't specifically ask for an update though. I think the ranking and final scores will be revealed at the end of the game
 
Lawpy said:
Ok this read looks really retaliatory. You keep thinking i’m going under the radar when i’m pretty much the most active and visible poster here and who’s getting actively smeared and mocked by wolves. That doesn’t make sense. Then you’re making it sound like me pushing you and alleys was something completely unsubstantiated and only came today, even though i’ve been discussing this topic and the chaos of the D2 fluffy wagon for a while. You’re then distorting my points on you and voluntarily revisiting the meaty daykill topic while retroactively condemning me for voting there on D3. I was wolfreading and fighting with vissy for a long time but somehow you decided to gloss over that and condemn that move as sheeping the village consensus. The same goes for the Mels read. Also your argument doesn’t work for D2 but actually in fact condemns you for your contributions to the chaos surrounding the fluffy and ivymoosy wagons.
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I think there is a world where you're a wolf but idk if you have ever bussed before. That is why I won't consider voting for you until after we flip AM. Everyone bought her saying that she has a 100% read rate on you, and I had been reading you as village for the vast majority of the game. I didn't remember how early of a vote you had on Vis. That is a point in your favor towards village!lawpy.
 
puppydogtor said:
@Lawpy you might be one of the most active and visible posters here, but the majority of your content feels like unnecessary posts such as "Hmmm" and "___ pls" and "Not the okays." You are definitely present on thread, but I struggle with seeing you as village when the actual content of most of your posts early in the game was severely lacking
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If that’s the only thing you got from my posts, then it’s clear you’re grasping for straws and are just mirroring others criticism of me and my cases on them. My posts are very content heavy but the fact you can’t see that is problematic in itself. Remember that zenges was similarly confused and annoyed by my style.
 
alleycat03 said:
I think there is a world where you're a wolf but idk if you have ever bussed before. That is why I won't consider voting for you until after we flip AM. Everyone bought her saying that she has a 100% read rate on you, and I had been reading you as village for the vast majority of the game. I didn't remember how early of a vote you had on Vis. That is a point in your favor towards village!lawpy.
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If you think my interactions with vissy and zenges are W/W, there’s a major problem in itself right there. Vissy tried to smear me and failed, and zenges was actively mocking and demeaning me until i buried him with those series of vote interactions and quotes that he was struggling to grasp.
 
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Lawpy said:
If that’s the only thing you got from my posts, then it’s clear you’re grasping for straws and are just mirroring others criticism of me and my cases on them. My posts are very content heavy but the fact you can’t see that is problematic in itself. Remember that zenges was similarly confused and annoyed by my style.
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I'm not going to deny that I'm grasping for straws. I haven't been able to keep up with the thread like I thought I would be able to so I've skimmed and therefore definitely missed some things.
 
puppydogtor said:
I'm not going to deny that I'm grasping for straws. I haven't been able to keep up with the thread like I thought I would be able to so I've skimmed and therefore definitely missed some things.
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And that’s a major problem i’m facing here. Look i get that 36/12 is exhausting and we all have IRL commitments and obligations (and i’m also still ill and feeling like garbage since yesterday). But when you’re basing your reads and cases on an incomplete understanding of what’s going on and accusing me of posting mostly irrelevant stuff with not much content, that starts to disappoint me and only worsens my read of you.
 
violetvett said:
Also, to finish N2 ISO


@Melchizedek what's your thoughts on AM killing Dubz D1 now, knowing Vis and Zenge were wolfmates?
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Melchizedek said:
I said that. I was considering this the next game after the noob game but apparently there have been other games that Dubz played in since, so the theory that AM wouldn’t let the pack kill Dubz N1 on a modding pass holds no water for me anymore
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Usually if a mod from a previous game plays in the next one, people leave them alone for the first cycle. I didn't realize there was a game between the noob game and this one, which is why I thought AM wouldn't allow a N1 Dubz kill. I have been corrected on the timeline of games.

Animal Midwife said:
puppy, I'm one of the few people backing you up so you need to stop hardsiding with Mel if you're village.
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@puppydogtor do NOT let her bully you and threaten to wolf read you because you're following your own thought process. This is a scare tactic.
 
@Lawpy that's a fair point, but I still didn't like my interactions with you yesterday. I was giving solid reasoning and you didn't even respond, missed one of my posts, and then went on to say I was misunderstanding you. It seemed intentional that you weren't acknowledging my posts because you realized your argument against me really wasn't that great and that's really what has turned my eyes towards you today
 
Melchizedek said:
@puppydogtor do NOT let her bully you and threaten to wolf read you because you're following your own thought process. This is a scare tactic.
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I'm honestly confused by that comment she made. In no way am I "hardsiding" with you. I'm not siding with anyone, I'm just trying to see what else there is to your posts and figure out what's redeemable and what's wolfy
 
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