Bringing treats at the end of a rotation...?

[chemist157]

What's up with students bringing treats at the end of a rotation for the clinic nurses? I was told today, by the nurses mind you, that many of the students who have rotated through their office bring treats (their wife baked a cake or they baked cookies or something like that) on their last day. First, that is lame to put me in that position, where I feel like a DB if I don't bring something (b/c they are nice, in fact). Second, why the hell are people doing this? Do they do this for every rotation? WTF?

While I'm at it, what's up with people leaving thank you cards at the end of every rotation? Is this standard practice? I guess I've been slacking all year.

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[FutureInternist]

I agree that the nurses shouldn't be telling you about it, since then you might feel obligated to do the same.
While MANY people have disagreed with me (on another thread) I am of the opinion that Thank You cards should be given, but only AFTER your evaluation has been submitted.

 

[nope80]

people do it to suck up, plain and simple.

 

[chemist157]

people do it to suck up, plain and simple.

yeah. lame.

 

[Erina]

people do it to suck up, plain and simple.

many people probably do, but not all.

i haven't done a rotation yet, but i could see myself bringing something on the last day. i get that from my mom...she is always baking things as a way of thanking people.

whether you give a thank you card, baked goods, or a verbal thank you, i think the point is that it's important to let the nurses and doctors know that you appreciated the time they spent training you.

 

[LovelyRita]

All treats of any kind and thank you cards are always cherished by the residents when applicable. Thank you in advance.

 

[RussianJoo]

I like treats.. who doesn't? it's your last day be happy have some treats..

 

[Kedan]

Generally, if there's food it's because one of the doctor's sprung for pizza or something. I've never done treats of thank you cards. Although when internship starts that may change. It never hurts to have the nurses on a cookie high.

 

[MasterShakeDO]

All treats of any kind and thank you cards are always cherished by the residents when applicable. Thank you in advance.

lol. I thank my future students in advance as well. I'd like to add... why wait until the end of the rotation? The best students bring treats regularly, preferably during call nights!

 

[Cerberus]

I think treat bringing is stealth gunning.

 

[QofQuimica]

What's up with students bringing treats at the end of a rotation for the clinic nurses? I was told today, by the nurses mind you, that many of the students who have rotated through their office bring treats (their wife baked a cake or they baked cookies or something like that) on their last day. First, that is lame to put me in that position, where I feel like a DB if I don't bring something (b/c they are nice, in fact). Second, why the hell are people doing this? Do they do this for every rotation? WTF?

While I'm at it, what's up with people leaving thank you cards at the end of every rotation? Is this standard practice? I guess I've been slacking all year.

I've never brought in food for the end of a clinical rotation, but I do sometimes for didactics and lab meetings, that kind of stuff. I don't think you should feel obligated to bring food in at all; it's nice to do if you feel like doing it, but not necessary. I don't generally write thank yous either for the most part. We've discussed this on another thread recently, but if you really want to thank faculty/residents who majorly went out of their way to help you, write a letter to their boss for their file. I've done that once so far for someone who I would nominate for a good samaritan award if one was offered.

 

[doc20]

its simple, human brain is designed to respond to food, provide that and you gain cookie point instantly

 

[Tiger26]

I think treat bringing is stealth gunning.

agree with assessment above

 

[OldPsychDoc]

If you've had a good time on a rotation and liked the people you worked with and are the kind of person who brings treats to express the above with no strings attached, then for crying out loud, just do it. Stop overthinking every danged thing on every frickin' rotation!

If you're trying to suck up or curry favor or score with the nursing students (or a hot attending) or whatever--then just forget it. We've already seen through you.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Don't do it

 

[chemist157]

If you've had a good time on a rotation and liked the people you worked with and are the kind of person who brings treats to express the above with no strings attached, then for crying out loud, just do it. Stop overthinking every danged thing on every frickin' rotation!

If you're trying to suck up or curry favor or score with the nursing students (or a hot attending) or whatever--then just forget it. We've already seen through you.

It's not a matter of "overthinking" everything. I don't think it influences my grade. And if it did I'm stubborn enough to not bring treats just to spite them or make a point. I'm just surprised how many people do this when I never have even thought about it. Seems kind of silly. It's clinic, not a social gathering. I sure have had a swell time here, have a cookie pal.

I'm sure some are sincere and others are sucking up. My point was just that it's lame that the nurses bring this to your attention and tell you that if you want an A you should bring in treats like most of the other students haha wink wink just kidding....kind of. Ultimately not a big deal though.

 

[RussianJoo]

what if you decide as a group to all bring something or throw in $5 to order pizza for the department?

I don't know how your school works but we do our cores on "tracks" each track has 8 people and rotate together. what if we all had an awesome time lets say on our surgery rotation, and decided on the last day during lunch time we'll order pizza for the depratment and we all through in $5 for it. Is that gunning?

you guys are rediculous.. did you not bring thank you cards and x-mas cards to your teachers during the holidays? especially in like elimentary and middle school?

bringing food or treats is just being nice.

and I guess you're all MEAN..

 

[chemist157]

what if you decide as a group to all bring something or throw in $5 to order pizza for the department?

I don't know how your school works but we do our cores on "tracks" each track has 8 people and rotate together. what if we all had an awesome time lets say on our surgery rotation, and decided on the last day during lunch time we'll order pizza for the depratment and we all through in $5 for it. Is that gunning?

you guys are rediculous.. did you not bring thank you cards and x-mas cards to your teachers during the holidays? especially in like elimentary and middle school?

bringing food or treats is just being nice.

and I guess you're all MEAN..

only if it means getting out of clinic for a while. haha.

 

[tulane06]

 

[Kedan]

you guys are rediculous.. did you not bring thank you cards and x-mas cards to your teachers during the holidays? especially in like elimentary and middle school?

No. Guess I'm mean.

 

[LovelyRita]

Don't do it

You say that now but you will very soon realize after running on a few busy call nights that those homemade cookies that the surgery gunner brought in are priceless.

 

[Thanatos]

One of my classmates wrote thank you notes after all rotations.....I went to one clinic where they had posted one of the thank you notes on the bulletin board in the residents office. At first I was like well they must have appreciated it a little bit to hang it on the wall.....but mostly it was just there for people to make fun of....as in "hey Thanatos, want to see what one of your lame ass classmates sent us to try to get a better evaluation?"

The point is....no thank you notes. Its lame and people will laugh at you.

 

[LovelyRita]

One of my classmates wrote thank you notes after all rotations.....I went to one clinic where they had posted one of the thank you notes on the bulletin board in the residents office. At first I was like well they must have appreciated it a little bit to hang it on the wall.....but mostly it was just there for people to make fun of....as in "hey Thanatos, want to see what one of your lame ass classmates sent us to try to get a better evaluation?"

The point is....no thank you notes. Its lame and people will laugh at you.

It's too bad that you had that experience and feel that way. I love the thank you notes in our office. Residency's hard and it's nice to know that someone had a good time on the rotation. They are not all from people who were going for surgery, either. I agree with what someone else said up the thread though. If you had a good time, send a note. If not, don't.

 

[TXDO]

I've heard nurses feel superior over medical students at hospital where they rotate. Is that true?

That makes me go nut

 

[TXDO]

Love this pix.

 

[smq123]

It's too bad that you had that experience and feel that way. I love the thank you notes in our office. Residency's hard and it's nice to know that someone had a good time on the rotation. They are not all from people who were going for surgery, either. I agree with what someone else said up the thread though. If you had a good time, send a note. If not, don't.

I don't send thank you notes, but I definitely made a point of either filling out the resident evals with glowing comments, or even emailing the residency PD and telling them that PGY-2 John Smith was an amazing teacher, etc.

And yeah, I've brought in baked stuff for the entire team (residents AND med students) at the end of the rotation. Everyone's tired and ready to rotate to something new, so a little sugary pick-me-up can help boost everyone's spirits. Plus, I really enjoy baking as a hobby, but I normally don't have a lot of people to bake for, and if I ate everything I made I'd be a blimp....so it's a great excuse to turn on the oven.

If you want to bring in baked stuff, but don't want to be labeled as a kiss-up, just anonymously leave it out in the resident's lounge or the nurse's lounge or something. Or bake it yourself, but have all the med students sign a card that goes with the cookies - that way, you're not singling yourself out.

 

[TUCAnSam]

I've heard nurses feel superior over medical students at hospital where they rotate. Is that true?

That makes me go nut

Seriously? Med students are at the absolute bottom of the hospital food chain. Hope you're planning on bringing donuts every morning cause nurses can make your life hell if they sense your air of superiority and entitlement.

 

[Law2Doc]

Seriously? Med students are at the absolute bottom of the hospital food chain. Hope you're planning on bringing donuts every morning cause nurses can make your life hell if they sense your air of superiority and entitlement.

I don't think there's as much reason for med students to bring the nurses food as there is for residents. Nurses can make the residents' life a pleasure or a hell. So making friends with a sacrificial baked good offering is often wise for a resident, particularly one who comes off a bit abrasive. It may save you from a late night page "just to let you know" that they are giving a patient the Tylenol you prescribed. But you need to do this at the beginning of a rotation, not the end, or it's pointless.

At some places med students may alternate bringing in snacks for the team on overnight calls, which is a nice custom, and works out for the med students as well -- who also get hungry.

 

[MasterShakeDO]

Bottom line is make friends with the nurses. The grub the night shift nurses have in the break room is ridiculous!

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

You say that now but you will very soon realize after running on a few busy call nights that those homemade cookies that the surgery gunner brought in are priceless.

I haven't had a cookie in the past 10 years, and I highly doubt Ill start now.

Ill stick to the free yogurt and string cheese that we always have access too

 

[smq123]

I haven't had a cookie in the past 10 years, and I highly doubt Ill start now.

Ill stick to the free yogurt and string cheese that we always have access too

What hospital are you at that you get access to FREE yogurt AND string cheese?

I can get saltines, graham crackers, and peanut butter, but cheese? And yogurt?

 

[tch001]

It never crossed my mind that students were expected to bring in homemade baked goods until yesterday. It was the last day of my week long outpatient part of my peds rotation, and the nurses, most of whom had been ignoring me all week, ASKED what I had brought for them

I'm on an away rotation and living in the hospital with no access to a kitchen, so how exactly was I even supposed to bake anything? And I was only there for a week!

 

[footcloud]

It never crossed my mind that students were expected to bring in homemade baked goods until yesterday. It was the last day of my week long outpatient part of my peds rotation, and the nurses, most of whom had been ignoring me all week, ASKED what I had brought for them

I'm on an away rotation and living in the hospital with no access to a kitchen, so how exactly was I even supposed to bake anything? And I was only there for a week!

This is beyond ridiculous....I'm sure there are nice nurses out there, but these ones seem to be greedy and cheap. Come on, they can't dish out of their own salary to buy some food for themselves? What cheapstakes.

People should only bring food if they WANT TO. Not because there's this whole enforced deal that they 'should' to avoid people giving them the third degree and cold shoulder.

The default behaviour of staff at the hospital should be NORMAL. They don't need to be super nice (of course, as decent human beings, that's always a great thing to be), but I don't get how this default should be hostile/rude and you need to suck up and bring treats and do all this stuff to change rude default status --> someone who doesn't make your life hell.

I agree that bringing food sometimes is a bit annoying, because if one person brings it, and other people don't, it makes them look bad by default and really I find it kind of unnecessary. I think taking turns to bring food is the best idea out there and everyone goes home happy.

 

[Ashers]

I tend to bake a lot, and I have made cookies and cakes for rotations. My goal is usually that I want cookies for myself, but since I live alone, I don't want to eat the entire batch, so I get other people to help me.

I baked things on rotations usually when I was the only student, and sometimes when there were a couple other students.

Most of my friends knew I baked because I'd bring cookies to lectures to share and times when people were studying in the library M1 and M2 year. Some of my friends on rotations even requested that I bake something for the rotation (usually only went to the students, residents, and attendings -- we'd keep it in the doctors' area).

 

[footcloud]

I think if someone really just wanted to be 'nice' with no other motives, they would simply put the basket or whatever in an open staff lounge area, stick a note saying "Feel free to take some" and that'll be it. Compare that with someone going around with the basket saying, "Hey I baked this, would you like one? Hope this brightens your day!" ...

 

[JeffLebowski]

Yeah, it reeks of gunnerism.

Come on, this isn't fuzzy huggy I love you time, this is a professional setting. Baking cookies or a cake or cupcakes or something is a pretty lame attempt to get people to like you, or tell people you like them. I think a firm handshake and a sincere, "Thank you for all you taught me, Dr. ______, I had a great experience here, I learned a lot, I appreciate all you did, and I really enjoyed working with you" is plenty sufficient and more appropriate. And if you had a particular connection or strong/rewarding relationship with an attending or resident, offer to keep in touch with them. It's probably possible to bring in cookies or donuts or something without coming off like a brown-noser or sensitive flower, but I think it's probably pretty difficult.

 

[tulane06]

Yeah, it reeks of gunnerism.

Come on, this isn't fuzzy huggy I love you time, this is a professional setting. Baking cookies or a cake or cupcakes or something is a pretty lame attempt to get people to like you, or tell people you like them. I think a firm handshake and a sincere, "Thank you for all you taught me, Dr. ______, I had a great experience here, I learned a lot, I appreciate all you did, and I really enjoyed working with you" is plenty sufficient and more appropriate. And if you had a particular connection or strong/rewarding relationship with an attending or resident, offer to keep in touch with them. It's probably possible to bring in cookies or donuts or something without coming off like a brown-noser or sensitive flower, but I think it's probably pretty difficult.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

I did it once to increase my chances of getting that H.

 

[Erina]

Yeah, it reeks of gunnerism.

Come on, this isn't fuzzy huggy I love you time, this is a professional setting. Baking cookies or a cake or cupcakes or something is a pretty lame attempt to get people to like you, or tell people you like them. I think a firm handshake and a sincere, "Thank you for all you taught me, Dr. ______, I had a great experience here, I learned a lot, I appreciate all you did, and I really enjoyed working with you" is plenty sufficient and more appropriate. And if you had a particular connection or strong/rewarding relationship with an attending or resident, offer to keep in touch with them. It's probably possible to bring in cookies or donuts or something without coming off like a brown-noser or sensitive flower, but I think it's probably pretty difficult.

in all types of professional settings, people bring baked goods to share.

i don't know why it's so hard to separate bringing treats from being a gunner. if you don't want to bring anything, then don't. if you do bring something, don't rub it in everyone's face.

it seems the residents really do appreciate it though. and a good resident isn't going to give someone an honors grade just because the student brought cookies.

 

[BigRedBeta]

I only brought baked goods for rotations where I really felt like I wanted to thank the staff for my experiences. It was just that, a thank you, not brown nosing. If I got a better eval because of it, well that's out of my control. I really only did it on two rotations - one at the VA intake area because nursing staff was awesome, really helped me and then during a PICU month where the residents were really amazing.

I did bring milkshakes once for my inpatient IM team...but that was only because my interns asked me every day (in january mind you) if I brought milkshakes as sort of an on running joke. If they hadn't made such a big deal about it, I wouldn't have, and they (the interns) weren't filling out my eval anyways. I did it a morning they were post-call (I had been on short call the night before) so it was a big morale booster.

 

[JeffLebowski]

in all types of professional settings, people bring baked goods to share.

Not if they want to be taken seriously as a professional. But have fun being "the brownie girl" if you want.

i don't know why it's so hard to separate bringing treats from being a gunner. if you don't want to bring anything, then don't. if you do bring something, don't rub it in everyone's face.

It'd be nice if it were that simple, wouldn't it? But it isn't. Just consider the way it makes you and other students look. I really just think this is something you don't want to do. Why run the risk of looking like a kiss-ass and making your fellow students look less appreciative of the rotation, or pressure them into contributing when they just want to keep it professional?

it seems the residents really do appreciate it though. and a good resident isn't going to give someone an honors grade just because the student brought cookies.

I agree that a good resident isn't going to be swayed whatsoever in evaluation or any personal/professional context by a tray of brownies. And I agree that residents appreciate free delicious food. So do I. Who doesn't? I bet they'd also appreciate a lot of other things or "gestures of appreciation" falling all along a spectrum of appropriateness. All justified under the banner of "it won't influence a good resident". You're right, it shouldn't. And a free extravagant dinner shouldn't influence a doctor's Januvia prescribing habits either. And the fact that a pretty flirtatious girl happens to be the rep "helping" in the OR with the new Gyrus ports shouldn't influence how often they use them either.

But the bottom line really is that none of the stuff mentioned above is a defensibly professional component of a professional relationship or environment. This isn't grade school and it isn't your birthday. Stop doing things that make your fellow students roll their eyes and harbor concern that you're unfairly introducing an element of your relationship with your evaluators that shouldn't be part of the equation and frankly, could just as easily make you look bad in the process.

 

[brenster99]

this is true

Seriously? Med students are at the absolute bottom of the hospital food chain. Hope you're planning on bringing donuts every morning cause nurses can make your life hell if they sense your air of superiority and entitlement.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I think it all depends. I've brought in food on two occasions and felt it was pretty appropriate; I've had other situations where it seemed inappropriate.

The first time was on peds, when literally every resident and student on the team brought something at one point or another.

The second time was the Monday after Thanksgiving, when my team had been on call on Thanksgiving day (but all the med students got to go on a long weekend). I brought them back some dessert from my mom, because when she heard that they all had to work she felt bad and baked. They definitely appreciated that, and it was done out of sympathy, not to try and be a gunner.

I've also been on a team where a fellow med student brought in a huge gift basket and personalized cards for the resident and attendings. That was some blatant sucking up.

 

[Snuffbox]

I don't have much to add to this topic

Cupcakes are always appreciated- if another student brings in cupcakes, I get to eat aforementioned delicious homemade cupcakes. Epic win

 

[kdavis04]

Fine. I will take the bait.

Why is being a "gunner" recieved with such a negative connotation?
Isn't competition what encourages much of the innovation and greatness we observe in the world?
Now that we are ascending into the heaven of med school, we are expected to release all feelings of competition.

Sorry, but I have been motivated to be better than the next guy my whole life. If I am a patient I want the doctor who IS better than the next guy.

 

[tulane06]

Fine. I will take the bait.

Why is being a "gunner" recieved with such a negative connotation?
Isn't competition what encourages much of the innovation and greatness we observe in the world?
Now that we are ascending into the heaven of med school, we are expected to release all feelings of competition.

Sorry, but I have been motivated to be better than the next guy my whole life. If I am a patient I want the doctor who IS better than the next guy.

Clinical medicine is a team sport, not a venue for self-worship. You may be OK for the first two years, but your residents, attendings and especially fellow students will despise you if you behave in a blatantly competitive manner during rotations. In the end, you will end up doing worse than the next guy.

 

[kdavis04]

Clinical medicine is a team sport, not a venue for self-worship. You may be OK for the first two years, but your residents, attendings and especially fellow students will despise you if you behave in a blatantly competitive manner during rotations. In the end, you will end up doing worse than the next guy.

Hmmmm... basketball is a team sport. Tell you what... you take the team without anyone who likes to compete. I will take the team with the "gunners" and kick your ### up and down the court all day long. Good day sir.

 

[MasterShakeDO]

I don't have much to add to this topic

Cupcakes are always appreciated- if another student brings in cupcakes, I get to eat aforementioned delicious homemade cupcakes. Epic win

QFT. If your very first reaction when a fellow student brings in treats is "stupid kiss@ss trying to make me look bad" and NOT "sweet...free cupcakes!" you need to reevaluate who's the real gunner.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Fine. I will take the bait.

Why is being a "gunner" recieved with such a negative connotation?
Isn't competition what encourages much of the innovation and greatness we observe in the world?
Now that we are ascending into the heaven of med school, we are expected to release all feelings of competition.

Sorry, but I have been motivated to be better than the next guy my whole life. If I am a patient I want the doctor who IS better than the next guy.

Because being a gunner and being a competitor are not the same thing.

You're not the best if you have to lower others to make yourself look/feel better by comparison, you're only the best if you legitimately performed the best. A gunner is competitive and is willing to bend/violate the first two rules of professionalism: 1) be a GOOD PERSON first, 2) be a TEAM PLAYER.

I enjoy having strong, smart, hard-working fellow students on my rotations. I listen to their patient presentations and make mental notes on what sounded good, what things they included, how the residents & attendings responded, and what things I could improve on. I appreciate they carry their load and are not hesitant to share in the work that piles up. They demonstrate what fellow good students are capable of and what I could be doing better and I'd like to think I offer the same.

It's when people get hung up on their own deficiencies and insecure in their ability to perform well that they start doing subtle things to sabotage the legitimate hard work of others to give themselves an edge, or even subconsciously satisfy their own desire to feel "good", or "better" than you. They introduce elements into the professional environment that frankly we'd all be better off if they weren't there.

I don't want to gossip about fellow students, I don't want to voice opinions or air frustrations publicly, I don't want to argue like children over insignificant things. I just want to come in, do my work to the utmost of my ability, learn as much as I can, have a great attitude, be pleasant to work with, and friendly to my coworkers. Please don't pull me into this whole arena of gossip, maneuvering, insecurity and gunning.

I want no part of it. I just want to be a good student.

 

[kdavis04]

Because being a gunner and being a competitor are not the same thing.

You're not the best if you have to lower others to make yourself look/feel better by comparison, you're only the best if you legitimately performed the best. A gunner is competitive and is willing to bend/violate the first two rules of professionalism: 1) be a GOOD PERSON first, 2) be a TEAM PLAYER.

I enjoy having strong, smart, hard-working fellow students on my rotations. I listen to their patient presentations and make mental notes on what sounded good, what things they included, how the residents & attendings responded, and what things I could improve on. I appreciate they carry their load and are not hesitant to share in the work that piles up. They demonstrate what fellow good students are capable of and what I could be doing better and I'd like to think I offer the same.

It's when people get hung up on their own deficiencies and insecure in their ability to perform well that they start doing subtle things to sabotage the legitimate hard work of others to give themselves an edge, or even subconsciously satisfy their own desire to feel "good", or "better" than you. They introduce elements into the professional environment that frankly we'd all be better off if they weren't there.

I don't want to gossip about fellow students, I don't want to voice opinions or air frustrations publicly, I don't want to argue like children over insignificant things. I just want to come in, do my work to the utmost of my ability, learn as much as I can, have a great attitude, be pleasant to work with, and friendly to my coworkers. Please don't pull me into this whole arena of gossip, maneuvering, insecurity and gunning.

I want no part of it. I just want to be a good student.

Thank you. I really was just needing clarification on the term "gunner". I thought that people were using the term to refer to others with a competitive nature.
Your explanation about competing by lowering those around you is the clarifcation I needed. I am not one of those, and I dont want to be around someone like that.
Competition should drive us to make ourselves better, not make others around us worse.