California Anesthesia Programs - Take Step 2 Early?

[mistatwo]

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I'm an MS3 at a New York MD program and I want to match in to a southern california anesthesia program. I got a 228 on Step 1, I have a mix of Honors and High Passes so far in my 3rd year clerkships, and I have a 2-3 research experiences (but no pubs). I'm slightly above average in my class ranking, but no AOA.
I'm planning on doing 2 away rotations, Sub-Is at UCI and USC, and would be thrilled to match at any university anesthesia program in southern california. Should I take my Step 2 early (mid-july)? Should I do aways at other institutions? Am I competitive for SoCal?

 

[Engin]

Yeah you're very competitive. Those aways are key! Good luck!

I didn't release my steps 2s until the last date. I dont know how important they are to get in early, but the earlier you get the test out of the way, the better.

 

[xbulletin]

Southern california programs are pretty hard to predict in general. Your numbers and grades are fine.


Away rotations are very key to getting spots out there, as it shows you have some committment to moving. You might want to take a look at Cedars-Sinai too, which I've heard great things about.

With a 228, I would suggest taking Step 2 early. After spending a year taking shelves/on the floors, its not hard to improve. If you have time to study and are confident you can put up a good score, it wouldn't hurt. And you can always not release it until you see it.

 

[citixen]

excuse me, what's AOA?

 

[RedAnesthesia]

excuse me, what's AOA?

AOA = Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Medical Society. It is a designation completed by some medical schools to signify their top 10% of their students. My medical school had a Junior AOA status that indicates that person was in the top 10% through first two years of medical school and then their were Senior AOA who were elected.

 

[xbulletin]

AOA status tends not to be very important in anesthesia, at least in getting interviews. Its nice, but certainly not something most programs require. The majority of programs send out invites way before AOA is declared anyway.

 

[kazuma]

FWIW, I took step 2 early (mid July) and programs mentioned they were glad I did because they viewed it as a "package deal" with no unkowns or anything to hide. Everything was on the table. I didn't apply to any CA programs, so I don't know anything about their programs specifically.

 

[xbulletin]

I think Step II is worth taking for any applicant with ambitions for a top tier program and a step I score <~235. Most people seem to improve significantly on step II because they've spent more time taking tests/being in the hospital. Its a very crushable test.

 

[mistatwo]

thanks everybody for their advice...i signed up for step 2 in mid-july. hope it works out!

 

[Jazzman9]

You will be really competitive for southern california with or without that step 2 score. I scored about 15 points lower than you did on Step 1 and received interviews at every socal program. I ended up taking step 2 in december in time to post a score before programs submitted rank lists, which had been the advice of my advisor all along. I ended up matching at USC. You are probably pretty competitive for UCLA and UCSD as well as USC, UCI, and Cedars. From my interview experiences, in terms of prestige: UCLA > UCSD > Cedars > USC > UCI.

You will find over the course of the interview season that the most prestigious program you interview at might not be the best fit for you. I ended up ranking the programs: Cedars > UCLA > UCSD > USC > UCI. I'm sure some people ranked similarly and other ranked them very differently. With your stats, you will be getting interviews from most likely all of those programs so you would be better off to rotate at UCSD, UCLA, or Cedars (arguably the top 3 socal anesthesia programs) and really put down some good roots there.

While I'm excited for USC, its not my top choice. I wasn't nuts about the SRNA training school and how pro-SRNA the chair was. However, I wanted to be in socal so it all worked out. Here is a quick review of the other programs so you can get an idea.

UCLA -- Probably the "biggest name" anesthesia program in socal. Lots of good research opportunities and great location (very close to santa monica). Great facilities. It's a huge program which might be a plus or minus for you. My only issue with the program is that some of the residents I spoke to thought of themselves as 'slave labor' for the hospital. I didn't get that feeling (but I was only there for an interview day so who knows how it really is). The only other negative is that the bulk of their CV surgery department left the hospital and moved to Cedars Sinai.

UCSD -- Very laid back medium sized program with some outstanding faculty. Residents were all really nice people and very social. The residents wished that they didn't have to travel around to different locations for their training (currently splitting time between the VA in La Jolla, main medical center in Hillcrest, and Thorton Hospital in UTC)&#8230;. Only about 15-20 min drive from each other. UTC and La Jolla are right next door. Weak ICU and peds experience. Main Medical center is getting old and needs some renovation. Fantastic regional program. I would have ranked this higher, but the residents weren't able to find jobs in SD because it's a small city.

Cedars -- What I would consider the hidden gem of socal anesthesia programs. Great location in Los Angeles with the best balance of clinical/didactic work. Cedars has a private practice anesthesia model in the department (about 150 anesthesiologists in the group, 40 of which teach). They teach because they love it. Program is like a family. They just increased in size from 4 to 8 residents per year so obviously this is a program on the rise (still a smaller sized program though). The faculty are insanely well connected and current residents landed some of the top fellowships for CV and Regional in the country (Cleveland Clinic, Cornell, and Northwestern I believe). Very strong OB anesthesia (I will actually be doing my OB rotation at Cedars because USC doesn't have enough). The UCLA CV group transferred to Cedars so now there are more hearts than you can shake a stick at. Downsides: No computer-based EMR in the ORs, doesn't carry the same name recognition as UCLA, newer program.

USC -- my future home so I might be a bit biased but I'll tell you how it really is. Great facilities with a brand new hospital. Location is close to downtown on the east side (not greatest area). Residents are all really laid back and like spending time with each other. The only big con is the SRNA training program and how pro-CRNA the chair of the department is (he is the chair of the SRNA training program too). The program is very well connected to different private practice groups in the area.

UCI -- brand new hospital with some very nice faculty. I wasn't crazy about the location since its right off the freeway in Orange, CA&#8230;.. yeah, its not in Irvine. Had some issues within the department a few years ago so it has been "reborn" recently after the scandel. The chair/PD are both huge advocates for the residents. Have good relations with CRNAs on staff. Hospital is amazing and everything is state of the art. Residents seem like a family and like spending time with each other. Downsides: location isn't great, have to go do CV at an offsite location.

I hope this information helps, I guess it turned into more a socal anesthesia review more than your original question about step 2.

Go Trojans!

 

[xbulletin]

On the flip side of the above poster, I applied to several of the socal programs and got no hits at all (including USC). Step 1 230, Step 2>260. Decent grades but no AOA, allopathic.

SoCal is hard to predict. while its unlikely I would've moved out there for residency, my application gave no indication of that. So I'd suggest doing everything you can to make it happen.

 

[mistatwo]

This is a GREAT review. Thanks for sharing, and I'm sure this will help out the other California lurkers out there. Congrats on matching to USC, where are you doing your prelim year? (you can pm me if you want to keep it private)

You will be really competitive for southern california with or without that step 2 score. I scored about 15 points lower than you did on Step 1 and received interviews at every socal program. I ended up taking step 2 in december in time to post a score before programs submitted rank lists, which had been the advice of my advisor all along. I ended up matching at USC. You are probably pretty competitive for UCLA and UCSD as well as USC, UCI, and Cedars. From my interview experiences, in terms of prestige: UCLA > UCSD > Cedars > USC > UCI.

You will find over the course of the interview season that the most prestigious program you interview at might not be the best fit for you. I ended up ranking the programs: Cedars > UCLA > UCSD > USC > UCI. I'm sure some people ranked similarly and other ranked them very differently. With your stats, you will be getting interviews from most likely all of those programs so you would be better off to rotate at UCSD, UCLA, or Cedars (arguably the top 3 socal anesthesia programs) and really put down some good roots there.

While I'm excited for USC, its not my top choice. I wasn't nuts about the SRNA training school and how pro-SRNA the chair was. However, I wanted to be in socal so it all worked out. Here is a quick review of the other programs so you can get an idea.

UCLA -- Probably the "biggest name" anesthesia program in socal. Lots of good research opportunities and great location (very close to santa monica). Great facilities. It’s a huge program which might be a plus or minus for you. My only issue with the program is that some of the residents I spoke to thought of themselves as 'slave labor' for the hospital. I didn't get that feeling (but I was only there for an interview day so who knows how it really is). The only other negative is that the bulk of their CV surgery department left the hospital and moved to Cedars Sinai.

UCSD -- Very laid back medium sized program with some outstanding faculty. Residents were all really nice people and very social. The residents wished that they didn't have to travel around to different locations for their training (currently splitting time between the VA in La Jolla, main medical center in Hillcrest, and Thorton Hospital in UTC)…. Only about 15-20 min drive from each other. UTC and La Jolla are right next door. Weak ICU and peds experience. Main Medical center is getting old and needs some renovation. Fantastic regional program. I would have ranked this higher, but the residents weren't able to find jobs in SD because it’s a small city.

Cedars -- What I would consider the hidden gem of socal anesthesia programs. Great location in Los Angeles with the best balance of clinical/didactic work. Cedars has a private practice anesthesia model in the department (about 150 anesthesiologists in the group, 40 of which teach). They teach because they love it. Program is like a family. They just increased in size from 4 to 8 residents per year so obviously this is a program on the rise (still a smaller sized program though). The faculty are insanely well connected and current residents landed some of the top fellowships for CV and Regional in the country (Cleveland Clinic, Cornell, and Northwestern I believe). Very strong OB anesthesia (I will actually be doing my OB rotation at Cedars because USC doesn't have enough). The UCLA CV group transferred to Cedars so now there are more hearts than you can shake a stick at. Downsides: No computer-based EMR in the ORs, doesn't carry the same name recognition as UCLA, newer program.

USC -- my future home so I might be a bit biased but I'll tell you how it really is. Great facilities with a brand new hospital. Location is close to downtown on the east side (not greatest area). Residents are all really laid back and like spending time with each other. The only big con is the SRNA training program and how pro-CRNA the chair of the department is (he is the chair of the SRNA training program too). The program is very well connected to different private practice groups in the area.

UCI -- brand new hospital with some very nice faculty. I wasn't crazy about the location since its right off the freeway in Orange, CA….. yeah, its not in Irvine. Had some issues within the department a few years ago so it has been "reborn" recently after the scandel. The chair/PD are both huge advocates for the residents. Have good relations with CRNAs on staff. Hospital is amazing and everything is state of the art. Residents seem like a family and like spending time with each other. Downsides: location isn't great, have to go do CV at an offsite location.

I hope this information helps, I guess it turned into more a socal anesthesia review more than your original question about step 2.

Go Trojans!

 

[Jazzman9]

Glad you liked the review. I'm doing a prelim at UCLA for the year

 

[Engin]

Let me reiterate how random the process is. I do think they give a locational preference as I did well in norcal (I'm from sf ay area and want to go back) but only got usc, irvine, and loma linda interviews. My friend got similar scores mid 220s on his boards (also class president though) and got into UCLA.

I think aways really help (especially if you're the type that regularly honors rotations) and will not stress them enough for places that are your top program). Do two away rotations if you really want to go to Cali. Most of my class did and we placed ~9 people in Cali anesthesia.

I'll review the three sites I did aways at:

Loma Linda- This program is outstanding and I will challenge anyone to find a place with better teaching. LL has arguably one of the best peds anesthesia in the country and a children's hospital right by/in the main hospital (its stated that doing your residency here is akin to doing a peds fellowship). Great ICU teaching and the PD runs the ICU at one of the peripheral sites. Strong didactics and simulations. All the sites are in walkable distance. Parking is not an issue and the housing is cheap. The chair is legendary in the dept. for being a resident advocate and some of the residents mentioned they came to LL strictly because of him. The research is strong. Case diversity is outstanding in peds, obgyn, hearts, transplants. There will be an SRNA school opening up this year but which such a strong chair, this is a nonissue. Avg work week is 55-60 hours and a very high board passing rate.

The negative is the confusion surrounding the seventh day adventist affiliation and the location. The cafeteria is vegetarian and the food is terrible IMO. No coffee is served in the cafeteria, but can be found at nursing stations and the ICU. You can bring whatever you want to the hospital of course. Most of the residents are married or couples. The location is in the inland empire and if you're a city person, a big negative.

UCI- The chair is formerly from yale and was brought in to fix the program. He has a lot of power and being an mba has brought a huge cash influx into the program. The PD is young and very approachable. Alot of young attendings here which is nice because they know what is was like to be a resident. The site is in orange, ca and the hospital is brand new. EMR here. The program in medium sized and growing. Research is growing. The negative for me was they get farmed around alot here. Peds (and ob) is at long beach i think, hearts at cedars. No transplants. No Crna issues. Avg work 65+ hours IMO. Word is they take alot of people that do aways rotations into their residency here. There is an end of rotation test which only a handful of people score well enough to do honors (<5). Very tough test.

UCDavis (in Sacrament)- Good relationship with attendings who are really good teachers but still very chill. No overnight call here as there is a good night float system and you work only two weekends a month. New hospital additions and emr everywhere but in OR (which is expected next year). 60 hour work week. Last five years, 100% board passing rate. Good didactics and sims. Case diversity is good but no liver or heart transplants. The PD (big hearts guy) is open about job placements and even gives you a 5 year breakdown where every resident matched during interview. Job market is tight in bay area and very few got jobs in heart of bay area (not including fellowship matches). The pain fellowship is very strong here. Shriner's children is next door. They take many inhouse for fellowships. They don't farm out here for your specialties. Surprisingly huge (blunt) trauma center as alot of highways around area. Some view Sacramento (medium sized big city) as a negative. Word is they give special preference to away rotators.

 

[TheBrightingInn]

I know the topic is mostly about SoCal, but since the title mentions just California and there is some mention of NorCal, just wanted to add that UCSF REQUIRES Step 2 CK prior to the rank list submission date.

 

[sunnyskies345]

this thread was pretty helpful, thanks guys!

so here's my situation, i'm currently also an MS3 at an allopathic school in NY with ties to socal (family's there, ucla for undergrad). step 1 was decent (228), planning to take step 2 by end of july. some research here and there.

only thing is my rotation evals are very average. no honors, couple high passes. i tried but i guess i'm not the type of person to stand out academically. i'd really like to match back in cali for anesthesia but am afraid i'm not competitive enough, as UCLA, UCSF, UCSD ... etc are all pretty high-powered academic institutions.

i'm trying to plan my 4th yr and was wondering whether i should do aways. our school is giving us the impression that aways may actually hurt rather than help. i guess my logic is, if i haven't been honoring rotations here, what makes me think i can impress people over there? even though i put in the hrs and effort, i feel like because i'm more reserved by nature and can't play the "i'm a confident medical student" act, people think i'm more passive.

can anyone share how it was like to do an away at any of the socal programs? ie, were the people nice, did you feel like it helped.

thanks!

 

[JFrusciante]

Great thread! I am very interested in Cali programs and am so happy to see such an informative thread on this.

Another question:

Are there any specific factors that determine whether you get an away at SoCal/NorCal programs?

Also, do any of Cali programs have step 1 cut offs? Also, does anyone know what scores are competitive for NorCal (UCSF/Stanford) programs?

 

[neurofreak]

also wondering how much regional ties matter to these programs (both socal and norcal). aside from doing aways, what are other ways to emphasize one's ties to the location?

 

[neurofreak]

also wondering how much regional ties matter to these programs (both socal and norcal). aside from doing aways, what are other ways to emphasize one's ties to the location?

 

[heyyouduh]

also wondering how much regional ties matter to these programs (both socal and norcal). aside from doing aways, what are other ways to emphasize one's ties to the location?

ditto, I am wondering the same thing. I have no ties to california, but I know I want to move there. Currently a ms-3 at a small time MD program in the SE.

 

[fakin' the funk]

ditto, I am wondering the same thing. I have no ties to california, but I know I want to move there. Currently a ms-3 at a small time MD program in the SE.

Send a personal statement with a specific part dedicated to "why I want to be in X location."

You can have as many versions of your PS in your residency app as you want -- you just have to pick and choose which ones you want to send to which programs.

If you get an interview, mention again and again that you want to be at X program in part because of X's location which has family, friends, future jobs, etc etc.

 

[MTGas2B]

UCSD -- Very laid back medium sized program with some outstanding faculty. Residents were all really nice people and very social. The residents wished that they didn't have to travel around to different locations for their training (currently splitting time between the VA in La Jolla, main medical center in Hillcrest, and Thorton Hospital in UTC)…. Only about 15-20 min drive from each other. UTC and La Jolla are right next door. Weak ICU and peds experience. Main Medical center is getting old and needs some renovation. Fantastic regional program. I would have ranked this higher, but the residents weren't able to find jobs in SD because it’s a small city.

Two comments, but first my disclaimer. I didn't train in SoCal and I work for the government. With that out of the way.

Smart a** comment: You skipped a program, the Navy program in San Diego where I'm a staff.

Next, before I left for my exciting trip to central Asia, I had a chance to meet some of the ICU folks at UCSD (I'm an ICU guy). They were looking at a new increase in the department's ICU responsiblities. I have no idea how that would translate to the residency program. And I realize that for most applicants the ICU experience isn't a huge deal maker/breaker.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Two comments, but first my disclaimer. I didn't train in SoCal and I work for the government. With that out of the way.

Smart a** comment: You skipped a program, the Navy program in San Diego where I'm a staff.

Next, before I left for my exciting trip to central Asia, I had a chance to meet some of the ICU folks at UCSD (I'm an ICU guy). They were looking at a new increase in the department's ICU responsiblities. I have no idea how that would translate to the residency program. And I realize that for most applicants the ICU experience isn't a huge deal maker/breaker.

We expanded into a new ICU at UCSD and recruited another ICU attending. This just happened 3 weeks ago so I don't know how it's going to be. I'm the resident next month in this new unit so I guess I'll be a guinea pig...

Not that the old UCSD SICU experience is that bad (and it's still part of the program). It is co-run with Trauma attendings, and covers the full range of SICU patients - trauma, neuro, CT, transplant, etc.

We also got approved for a critical care fellowship, I think we're recruiting now.

 

[lord_jeebus]

UCSD -- ... I would have ranked this higher, but the residents weren't able to find jobs in SD because it’s a small city.

I realize I'm replying to an old post, but that's not really the issue in SD. It's not a small city - #2 in California and #8 in the nation by population. The issue is that a single group (ASMG) controls the great majority of private anesthesia jobs in SD, that not everyone is able to get a job with that group, and certainly not everyone wants a job with that group. Many are choosing opportunities outside of SD that are more lucrative and/or have better hours.

We spend 2-3 months working with ASMG attendings, so we have a pretty good idea of whether or not they're the group for us, and they have a good idea of whether we're right for them.

 

[dkim186]

Do student with 224 step 1

Is it true that socal anesthesia usually do not take any DOs or very little?
wondering.....only seen one at ucla

 

[jinobi]

UCLA has not taken in a DO in over 7 or 8 years since the resident presently there. Word down the grapevine was that the committee was arguing over whether they should even accept a DO or not, but as you see he/she was successful.

Resident had several publications in non-Anes field, did a Sub-I at UCLA.

I think Davis has a DO in their current PGY ranks too. Seems that CA programs are a tougher nut to crack for DOs. There's always ARMC via OPTI-West, but lack of ABA board certification through AOA anesthesia residency would be problematic.

 

[XRanger]

this thread was pretty helpful, thanks guys!

so here's my situation, i'm currently also an MS3 at an allopathic school in NY with ties to socal (family's there, ucla for undergrad). step 1 was decent (228), planning to take step 2 by end of july. some research here and there.

only thing is my rotation evals are very average. no honors, couple high passes. i tried but i guess i'm not the type of person to stand out academically. i'd really like to match back in cali for anesthesia but am afraid i'm not competitive enough, as UCLA, UCSF, UCSD ... etc are all pretty high-powered academic institutions.

i'm trying to plan my 4th yr and was wondering whether i should do aways. our school is giving us the impression that aways may actually hurt rather than help. i guess my logic is, if i haven't been honoring rotations here, what makes me think i can impress people over there? even though i put in the hrs and effort, i feel like because i'm more reserved by nature and can't play the "i'm a confident medical student" act, people think i'm more passive.

can anyone share how it was like to do an away at any of the socal programs? ie, were the people nice, did you feel like it helped.

thanks!

im wondering the same thing too. I have good step 1 score but average clinical evals so far (no honors, only HPs). Hoping to match back to socal. Good idea to do aways? how many and where?

 

[Med108]

Just wondering... b/c you share the same last name as the program director and I REALLY want to go to UC Davis!!!! They haven't upload my USMLE score yet and I applied late because I wanted my PS to be good enough for the program to take me.

This probably doesn't go here, but please someone from UC Davis residency, please update the Anesthesiology MatchApplicants
http://anesthesiology.matchapplicants.com/program.php?id=234 =)

Let me reiterate how random the process is. I do think they give a locational preference as I did well in norcal (I'm from sf ay area and want to go back) but only got usc, irvine, and loma linda interviews. My friend got similar scores mid 220s on his boards (also class president though) and got into UCLA.

I think aways really help (especially if you're the type that regularly honors rotations) and will not stress them enough for places that are your top program). Do two away rotations if you really want to go to Cali. Most of my class did and we placed ~9 people in Cali anesthesia.

I'll review the three sites I did aways at:

Loma Linda- This program is outstanding and I will challenge anyone to find a place with better teaching. LL has arguably one of the best peds anesthesia in the country and a children's hospital right by/in the main hospital (its stated that doing your residency here is akin to doing a peds fellowship). Great ICU teaching and the PD runs the ICU at one of the peripheral sites. Strong didactics and simulations. All the sites are in walkable distance. Parking is not an issue and the housing is cheap. The chair is legendary in the dept. for being a resident advocate and some of the residents mentioned they came to LL strictly because of him. The research is strong. Case diversity is outstanding in peds, obgyn, hearts, transplants. There will be an SRNA school opening up this year but which such a strong chair, this is a nonissue. Avg work week is 55-60 hours and a very high board passing rate.

The negative is the confusion surrounding the seventh day adventist affiliation and the location. The cafeteria is vegetarian and the food is terrible IMO. No coffee is served in the cafeteria, but can be found at nursing stations and the ICU. You can bring whatever you want to the hospital of course. Most of the residents are married or couples. The location is in the inland empire and if you're a city person, a big negative.

UCI- The chair is formerly from yale and was brought in to fix the program. He has a lot of power and being an mba has brought a huge cash influx into the program. The PD is young and very approachable. Alot of young attendings here which is nice because they know what is was like to be a resident. The site is in orange, ca and the hospital is brand new. EMR here. The program in medium sized and growing. Research is growing. The negative for me was they get farmed around alot here. Peds (and ob) is at long beach i think, hearts at cedars. No transplants. No Crna issues. Avg work 65+ hours IMO. Word is they take alot of people that do aways rotations into their residency here. There is an end of rotation test which only a handful of people score well enough to do honors (<5). Very tough test.

UCDavis (in Sacrament)- Good relationship with attendings who are really good teachers but still very chill. No overnight call here as there is a good night float system and you work only two weekends a month. New hospital additions and emr everywhere but in OR (which is expected next year). 60 hour work week. Last five years, 100% board passing rate. Good didactics and sims. Case diversity is good but no liver or heart transplants. The PD (big hearts guy) is open about job placements and even gives you a 5 year breakdown where every resident matched during interview. Job market is tight in bay area and very few got jobs in heart of bay area (not including fellowship matches). The pain fellowship is very strong here. Shriner's children is next door. They take many inhouse for fellowships. They don't farm out here for your specialties. Surprisingly huge (blunt) trauma center as alot of highways around area. Some view Sacramento (medium sized big city) as a negative. Word is they give special preference to away rotators.