Camp LeJeune AEGD

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kevin512

kevin512

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I was accepted to the Navy AEGD program in Camp Lejeune. I am not so happy... why? the location and the fact that I'll have 3 yr orders. I am seriously thinking about dropping the AEGD and going somewhere else... like Japan, Bahrain....

Many ppl have shared that there is an advantage going to the program, but I feel if I be proactive and do/learn as much as I can, that I will do just as fine.

Good idea or bad idea?
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Just curious, did you put Camp Lejeune on the application?

I think you can be fine without it because you still have a credentialing tour and 2-3 years to get it together for private practice. I did a clerkship and there was nothing mind blowing about the GPR/AEGD programs. If you're wanting to stay in the Navy longer then it might benefit you to complete the AEGD.
 
It depends on where you go if you don't do the AEGD program. If you go to a large clinic, and there are some overseas and in the states, you may end up doing a lot and learning from a great deal of specialists. However, if you do to a smaller clinic overseas or in the states, you might not end up learning as much as you would in the AEGD. If you are in a big clinic, with many specialists, you are going to learn a lot by default. Otherwise, not as much.

If it were me, I would do the AEGD. Why? It is guaranteed experience in a teaching environment staffed by experienced clinicians who want to teach, and there is a large gap between dental school and being private practice ready regardless of what dental school you attended. People in the Navy from all over will tell you that. Additionally, the way dentistry is approached in the Navy is not always the same as it is in private practice, so the AEGD has the advantage of getting accustomed to those things and learning more dentistry at the same time.

You can learn on a credentialing tour, but the education experience isn't as coordinated as it is in a residency. If in doubt, talk to the detailer Capt George. If memory serves, he was once a director of an AEGD program.

Good luck, and I hope this helps.
 
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I would also advocate taking the AEGD. Going from the dental school cookie-cutter dentistry to military dentistry is a bit of an adjustment and there is tons to learn besides that. Camp Lejeune is somewhat isolated but the cost of living is low and it's not THAT far from some major cities.
 
I declined the offer for 2 reasons: the location and the 3 years orders attached to it. It may have been a stupid decision seeing that I could have bought a house for cheap and been stationed on the mainland.

I asked Capt George for Japan. Does anyone know what the best base is in Japan? As mentioned earilier, bigger bases are better... which ones are those? Do many people ask to go to Japan? Does going to Japan strengten your credentials within the Navy?

thxs,
Kevin
 
Japan for you is highly unlikely, they rarely send credentialers, especially just out of school, over there. If you did go there it would most likely be Okinawa with 3rd Dental Battalion but it's very unlikely, plus Japan seemed to be in high demand with the junior LTs this year and all the slots are probably taken. Expect to end up at Great Lakes or Parris Island.
 
These are the places that Capt. George said we could go:

1. Parris Island, SC - 1 year orders
2. Camp Lejeune, NC - 2 years unaccompanied (single) or 3 year orders accompanied (family)
3. Kings Bay, GA - 1 year orders
4. Meridian, MS - Tour length varies
5. Gulfport, MS - Tour length varies
6. Millington, TN - Tour length varies
7. Japan - Okinawa, Iwakuni, Yokosuka - 2 years unaccompanied (single) or 3 year orders accompanied (family)
8. Great Lakes, IL - 1 year orders
9. Guam - 2 years unaccompanied (single) or 3 year orders accompanied (family)
10. Mayport, FL - 1 year orders

I choose Japan, Mayport FL and lastly, Gulfport MS.
 
I've had classmates get Pensacola and Oaks Hill already this cycle. So if a billet opens up somewhere, you might go there.
 
MaxAnn said:
It depends on where you go if you don't do the AEGD program. If you go to a large clinic, and there are some overseas and in the states, you may end up doing a lot and learning from a great deal of specialists. However, if you do to a smaller clinic overseas or in the states, you might not end up learning as much as you would in the AEGD. If you are in a big clinic, with many specialists, you are going to learn a lot by default. Otherwise, not as much.

If it were me, I would do the AEGD. Why? It is guaranteed experience in a teaching environment staffed by experienced clinicians who want to teach, and there is a large gap between dental school and being private practice ready regardless of what dental school you attended. People in the Navy from all over will tell you that. Additionally, the way dentistry is approached in the Navy is not always the same as it is in private practice, so the AEGD has the advantage of getting accustomed to those things and learning more dentistry at the same time.

You can learn on a credentialing tour, but the education experience isn't as coordinated as it is in a residency. If in doubt, talk to the detailer Capt George. If memory serves, he was once a director of an AEGD program.

Good luck, and I hope this helps.
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That's not always the case. Specialists don't get paid any more for teaching you anything. In fact, the endodontist in my AEGD didn't teach me jack. His idea of teaching was to throw you in a room full of all the endo gadgets and let you go to town. When you eventually f-ed something up he would just fix it and tell you to do the next one. So, sure, you're learning but you could do that w/o an AEGD or its obligation. Teach yourself endo during the AEGD...that's all I got from that guy. Fortunately there was another endodontist there who could, at least, answer some of my questions when I had them. Don't worry, the other guy's gone now anyway. I'm just saying. The specialists don't get paid to teach you and don't always care to. Most of the time they're pretty nice though. I can't take that away from them.
 
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Tooth said:
That's not always the case. Specialists don't get paid any more for teaching you anything. In fact, the endodontist in my AEGD didn't teach me jack. His idea of teaching was to through you in a room full of all the endo gadgets and let you go to town. When you eventually f-ed something up he would just fix it and tell you to do the next one. So, sure, you're learning but you could do that w/o an AEGD or its obligation. Teach yourself endo during the AEGD...that's all I got from that guy. Fortunately there was another endodontist there who could, at least, answer some of my questions when I had them. Don't worry, the other guy's gone now anyway. I'm just saying. The specialists don't get paid to teach you and don't always care to. Most of the time they're pretty nice though. I can't take that away from them.
Click to expand...

Your experience differs greatly from mine.
 
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vellnueve said:
Your experience differs greatly from mine.
Click to expand...

Are you currently in your AEGD? I ask because, psychologically its hard to say you've made a mistake when you're still "in the middle" of it. People will generally rationalize their decisions to make themselves feel better and postpone a genuine evaluation until after it's all said and done. By that, I mean that I think I was happier about doing the AEGD when I was doing it. Now that a couple of years have gone by, it seems that I would have learned all those tricks on my own anyway. I'd be a liar if I didn't say that sometimes I think it was a mistake. I'd love to get out with my original AD obligation. Now I have to give one more year.
 
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Capt George said he penciled me in for Okinawa. Anyone know anything about the latter?
 
kevin512 said:
These are the places that Capt. George said we could go:

1. Parris Island, SC - 1 year orders
2. Camp Lejeune, NC - 2 years unaccompanied (single) or 3 year orders accompanied (family)
3. Kings Bay, GA - 1 year orders
4. Meridian, MS - Tour length varies
5. Gulfport, MS - Tour length varies
6. Millington, TN - Tour length varies
7. Japan - Okinawa, Iwakuni, Yokosuka - 2 years unaccompanied (single) or 3 year orders accompanied (family)
8. Great Lakes, IL - 1 year orders
9. Guam - 2 years unaccompanied (single) or 3 year orders accompanied (family)
10. Mayport, FL - 1 year orders

I choose Japan, Mayport FL and lastly, Gulfport MS.
Click to expand...

So, is Camp Lejeune so far out in BFE that it's equivalent to an overseas post? i.e. 2 years unaccompanied or 3 years with family, or does it have something to do with being Marine releated (at least I think it's a marine base)
 
Tooth said:
Are you currently in your AEGD? I ask because, psychologically its hard to say you've made a mistake when you're still "in the middle" of it. People will generally rationalize their decisions to make themselves feel better and postpone a genuine evaluation until after it's all said and done. By that, I mean that I think I was happier about doing the AEGD when I was doing it. Now that a couple of years have gone by, it seems that I would have learned all those tricks on my own anyway. I'd be a liar if I didn't say that sometimes I think it was a mistake. I'd love to get out with my original AD obligation. Now I have to give one more year.
Click to expand...

Thing to understand is that the Navy offers PGY-1 (AEGD/GPR) for their benefit, not for ours. They want to get us prep'd for operational duty. The incentive for us is a full salary during residency and a nice little certificate to show we did 1 year postgrad. The same prinicple applies for cred tours, just no nice little certificate. My point is that you are right when talking about an AEGD... you would have developed the skills on your own eventually. It was to the Navy's benefit to have you learn them sooner so you can function better in an operational setting. There are many things unique to a GPR though (outside of general dentistry) that you won't learn out on your own.
 
jim85213 said:
Thing to understand is that the Navy offers PGY-1 (AEGD/GPR) for their benefit, not for ours. They want to get us prep'd for operational duty. The incentive for us is a full salary during residency and a nice little certificate to show we did 1 year postgrad. The same prinicple applies for cred tours, just no nice little certificate. My point is that you are right when talking about an AEGD... you would have developed the skills on your own eventually. It was to the Navy's benefit to have you learn them sooner so you can function better in an operational setting. There are many things unique to a GPR though (outside of general dentistry) that you won't learn out on your own.
Click to expand...

Working in an AEGD, you do have a better chance to get supplemental privileges early because of the increased and focused specialty support.
 
vellnueve said:
Working in an AEGD, you do have a better chance to get supplemental privileges early because of the increased and focused specialty support.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the supplemental privileges (and even many core privileges) are worthless when you get farmed out of the AEGD and your new clinic director only lets you do operative and exams all day. That's what happened to me. His justification was twofold. 1. Let the specialists do the work they were trained to do. 2. If the LT's aren't doing the operative, who will? Doing an AEGD doesn't make you a specialist and doesn't promote you in rank. That means when your clinic director is an *ss and willingly wastes your training you can say nothing about it. You're still the lowest man on the totem pole. It was sick. My clinic director wouldn't even let me do single unit crowns or anterior endo. The mentality was "Just sit there in your chair and plug amalgam *itch."
 
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jim85213 said:
Thing to understand is that the Navy offers PGY-1 (AEGD/GPR) for their benefit, not for ours. They want to get us prep'd for operational duty. The incentive for us is a full salary during residency and a nice little certificate to show we did 1 year postgrad. The same prinicple applies for cred tours, just no nice little certificate. My point is that you are right when talking about an AEGD... you would have developed the skills on your own eventually. It was to the Navy's benefit to have you learn them sooner so you can function better in an operational setting. There are many things unique to a GPR though (outside of general dentistry) that you won't learn out on your own.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought. I thought it would be in the Navy's best interest to allow me to do the molar endo, endo retreats, the third molar extractions, implant restorations, etc. that I was taught and received supplemental privileges for during the AEGD. Talk about fraud, waste, and abuse. It's a fraud that they tell you you'll be doing this stuff after your AEGD, a waste of your training when they won't allow you to do it despite your credentials, and abusive when there are so many patients in need and you just have to push them back out the door and tell them to get in line somewhere else.
 
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That's true but it'll probably vary by where you're going. The ones assigned to ampibs or small clinics with no specialty support will certainly be doing more than exams and operative.
 
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Tooth said:
That's what I thought. I thought it would be in the Navy's best interest to allow me to do the molar endo, endo retreats, the third molar extractions, implant restorations, etc. that I was taught and received supplemental privileges for during the AEGD. Talk about fraud, waste, and abuse. It's a fraud that they tell you you'll be doing this stuff after your AEGD, a waste of your training when they won't allow you to do it despite your credentials, and abusive when there are so many patients in need and you just have to push them back out the door and tell them to get in line somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Where did you go after your AEGD? You don't have to be specific, but was it a large clinic or were you a one-holer somewhere?
 
vellnueve said:
That's true but it'll probably vary by where you're going. The ones assigned to ampibs or small clinics with no specialty support will certainly be doing more than exams and operative.
Click to expand...

I'm at a medium sized clinic. We have no specialty support in our clinic and are forced to ship them out to other clinics where there is specialty support. Let me lay out a couple scenarios where you will actually get what you think you were going to get.

1. Your clinic director isn't a douche bag. He/she lets you do the procedures you were trained and credentialed to do. Luck of the draw I guess. I haven't been everywhere so I don't know how prevalent it is to have a douche bag director. I will tell you that there are plenty of douche bags out there and many of the douches had douches for directors when they were LT's. It appears to be a fine Navy tradition.
2. There is a severe manning shortage and you become the clinic director yourself as a LT. Rare, but it does happen. Usually this would be filled with a comp trained dentist or at least a LCDR.
3. You're deployed to a one-holer. This is also unlikely because they don't want newbies to be left alone. They want a comp trained dentist in that situation. Plus, when you're deployed I understand you get squat for supplies. Good luck trying to do a crown or bridge without a lab on a destroyer. You may have autonomy but your supplies will still keep you sitting on your hands.

I want to be clear about one more thing. Navy AEGD's are good training. And the certificates are valid just like any other program. The problem doesn't appear until you get out of the AEGD. I don't recommend Navy AEGD's anymore and it has nothing to do with the programs. It has everything to do with the mentality of the directors when you get out of your AEGD. They just don't respect them. They don't care that you did one. They don't care that you extended your AD obligation for a year to do it. It's like you just graduated from dental school to them.

It's just not worth giving an extra year to then have your skills atrophy or at best go stagnate for four years. When AEGD's counted as payback they were a no brainer. It's just not the same anymore. Remember, if someone told you doing the AEGD would keep you off the amalgam line, IT'S A CRUEL LIE!
 
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I'm not saying that you're wrong in any way as I've heard much the same, but as you noted a lot will depend on that operational tour and where you're going/who you're working under.
 
Tooth said:
I'm at a medium sized clinic. We have no specialty support in our clinic and are forced to ship them out to other clinics where there is specialty support. Let me lay out a couple scenarios where you will actually get what you think you were going to get.

1. Your clinic director isn't a douche bag. He/she lets you do the procedures you were trained and credentialed to do. Luck of the draw I guess. I haven't been everywhere so I don't know how prevalent it is to have a douche bag director. I will tell you that there are plenty of douche bags out there and many of the douches had douches for directors when they were LT's. It appears to be a fine Navy tradition.
2. There is a severe manning shortage and you become the clinic director yourself as a LT. Rare, but it does happen. Usually this would be filled with a comp trained dentist or at least a LCDR.
3. You're deployed to a one-holer. This is also unlikely because they don't want newbies to be left alone. They want a comp trained dentist in that situation. Plus, when you're deployed I understand you get squat for supplies. Good luck trying to do a crown or bridge without a lab on a destroyer. You may have autonomy but your supplies will still keep you sitting on your hands.

I want to be clear about one more thing. Navy AEGD's are good training. And the certificates are valid just like any other program. The problem doesn't appear until you get out of the AEGD. I don't recommend Navy AEGD's anymore and it has nothing to do with the programs. It has everything to do with the mentality of the directors when you get out of your AEGD. They just don't respect them. They don't care that you did one. They don't care that you extended your AD obligation for a year to do it. It's like you just graduated from dental school to them.

It's just not worth giving an extra year to then have your skills atrophy or at best go stagnate for four years. When AEGD's counted as payback they were a no brainer. It's just not the same anymore. Remember, if someone told you doing the AEGD would keep you off the amalgam line, IT'S A CRUEL LIE!
Click to expand...

Would you say that navy tours are just one huge amalgam line then?
 
Tooth said:
I'm at a medium sized clinic. We have no specialty support in our clinic and are forced to ship them out to other clinics where there is specialty support. Let me lay out a couple scenarios where you will actually get what you think you were going to get.

1. Your clinic director isn't a douche bag. He/she lets you do the procedures you were trained and credentialed to do. Luck of the draw I guess. I haven't been everywhere so I don't know how prevalent it is to have a douche bag director. I will tell you that there are plenty of douche bags out there and many of the douches had douches for directors when they were LT's. It appears to be a fine Navy tradition.
2. There is a severe manning shortage and you become the clinic director yourself as a LT. Rare, but it does happen. Usually this would be filled with a comp trained dentist or at least a LCDR.
3. You're deployed to a one-holer. This is also unlikely because they don't want newbies to be left alone. They want a comp trained dentist in that situation. Plus, when you're deployed I understand you get squat for supplies. Good luck trying to do a crown or bridge without a lab on a destroyer. You may have autonomy but your supplies will still keep you sitting on your hands.
I want to be clear about one more thing. Navy AEGD's are good training. And the certificates are valid just like any other program. The problem doesn't appear until you get out of the AEGD. I don't recommend Navy AEGD's anymore and it has nothing to do with the programs. It has everything to do with the mentality of the directors when you get out of your AEGD. They just don't respect them. They don't care that you did one. They don't care that you extended your AD obligation for a year to do it. It's like you just graduated from dental school to them.

It's just not worth giving an extra year to then have your skills atrophy or at best go stagnate for four years. When AEGD's counted as payback they were a no brainer. It's just not the same anymore. Remember, if someone told you doing the AEGD would keep you off the amalgam line, IT'S A CRUEL LIE!
Click to expand...

This may be true for AEGDs but not for GPRs. I am in the middle of my GPR right now and I have orders to a one-holer. I wouldn't say this is rare because I know of at least six other GPRs who have orders to one-holers. I also know of two AEGDs that are slated for one-holers. I can only image how frustrating your situation but I don't necessarily feel that it's commonplace.

Side note: no dentist on destroyers... just carriers and amphibs.
 
Tooth said:
Yes, but the supplemental privileges (and even many core privileges) are worthless when you get farmed out of the AEGD and your new clinic director only lets you do operative and exams all day. That's what happened to me. His justification was twofold. 1. Let the specialists do the work they were trained to do. 2. If the LT's aren't doing the operative, who will? Doing an AEGD doesn't make you a specialist and doesn't promote you in rank. That means when your clinic director is an *ss and willingly wastes your training you can say nothing about it. You're still the lowest man on the totem pole. It was sick. My clinic director wouldn't even let me do single unit crowns or anterior endo. The mentality was "Just sit there in your chair and plug amalgam *itch."
Click to expand...

jim85213 said:
This may be true for AEGDs but not for GPRs. I am in the middle of my GPR right now and I have orders to a one-holer. I wouldn't say this is rare because I know of at least six other GPRs who have orders to one-holers. I also know of two AEGDs that are slated for one-holers. I can only image how frustrating your situation but I don't necessarily feel that it's commonplace.

Side note: no dentist on destroyers... just carriers and amphibs.
Click to expand...

I know of several AEGDs who are either slated for one holers or remote assignments or that did them out of their programs.

Side note: you have actual orders already or are you just penned in?
 
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