Can a DO become a MD?

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simpleman

simpleman

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I just have this question and I dont know if its true. My mom's friend is a DO and She decided to take the USMLE Step 1,2, and 3 for some odd reason. After she passed all three, she said that she can put the MD title beside her name. I dont want anyone to get mad about the word "title." I think she did this b/c she wants to work as a CEO for a Medical Center or something for a Pharmaceutical Company. Does anyone know if this is true, because I didnt believe it initially. Thanks.
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No, it is not true. It is, however, true that DO's can take the USMLE boards to place into allopathic residencies, but you do not earn an MD degree just because you were matched into an Allo residency. The school you attend grants whichever medical degree they grant. SO it is probably true that your moms friend did take the MD licensing exams, but that person cannot put an MD behind their name.
 
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actually, i think it's partially true. one of my physicians is a DO, but he took the USMLE and his certificate has an MD at the end of his name (i saw in his office). i remember being kind of confused. it's probably customary that they put MD on your certificate to signify your passing of the boards, but definitely does not change your overall status as a DO.
 
Vix206 said:
actually, i think it's partially true. one of my physicians is a DO, but he took the USMLE and his certificate has an MD at the end of his name (i saw in his office). i remember being kind of confused. it's probably customary that they put MD on your certificate to signify your passing of the boards, but definitely does not change your overall status as a DO.
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See, I thought this was something a lot of foreign docs did. Instead of coming over and taking the foreign entry exam, htey could go to a DO school, and then they would have an MD/DO degree. A few of my dad's clients have this and he asked about it, adn that's what they told him. I think most people who went this route didn't go overseas intentionally, they were born there, studied there, and then immigrated at an older age.
 
possibly. but i'm pretty sure my doc wasn't international. he went to pcom, and i'm almost positive all his training and such was here.
 
Only a few options that I could think of:

1. Had a DO before the 1960's California DO-->MD merger...and got an MD at that time (this was short-lived....check the FAQ for the details).

2. Earned an MD from a foreign country and then enrolled at NYCOM's emigre program and completed a full US DO program.

3. Earned a DO and then took some bull$hit online course from one of the lesser known caribbean schools and bought an MD degree.

4. Earned a DO and upon graduating from an MD residency got a diploma with MD next to their name (as a typo/oversight) or similarly the hospital they work at wrongly puts MD on all of its physicians badges.

5. They're lying and seek an ego stroke

did I miss anything?
 
Taus said:
Only a few options that I could think of:

1. Had a DO before the 1960's California DO-->MD merger...and got an MD at that time (this was short-lived....check the FAQ for the details).

2. Earned an MD from a foreign country and then enrolled at NYCOM's emigre program and completed a full US DO program.

3. Earned a DO and then took some bull$hit online course from one of the lesser known caribbean schools and bought an MD degree.

4. Earned a DO and upon graduating from an MD residency got a diploma with MD next to their name (as a typo/oversight) or similarly the hospital they work at wrongly puts MD on all of its physicians badges.

5. They're lying and seek an ego stroke

did I miss anything?
Click to expand...


I see you've made many comments regarding residency programs. I am personally interested in surgery (and will probably eventually apply to the allopathic programs as well), is it your opinion that I should take all steps of usmle?
Thanks!
 
Taus said:
Only a few options that I could think of:

1. Had a DO before the 1960's California DO-->MD merger...and got an MD at that time (this was short-lived....check the FAQ for the details).

2. Earned an MD from a foreign country and then enrolled at NYCOM's emigre program and completed a full US DO program.

3. Earned a DO and then took some bull$hit online course from one of the lesser known caribbean schools and bought an MD degree.

4. Earned a DO and upon graduating from an MD residency got a diploma with MD next to their name (as a typo/oversight) or similarly the hospital they work at wrongly puts MD on all of its physicians badges.

5. They're lying and seek an ego stroke

did I miss anything?
Click to expand...

Hahahahahahaha!
Hey Taus! Noooo. It doesn't look like you've missed anything
You've summed it up best :laugh: i was about to enlifhten this board with #2. and #3. since i know quite a few of NYCOM emigre' graduates. Many do use M.D, D.O title after their names. Also car plates in NYS are only come with "MD" on it for both M.Ds and D.Os. I'm not even sure why this D.O need and M.D title? Search the web, and see for yourselves how many ppl with D.O
only hold "medical director" title, or some super-duper high ranking position. Honestly, I have yet to see anybody questioning the validity of the D.O by the general public in the clinical setting. ;)
 
koshka said:
I see you've made many comments regarding residency programs. I am personally interested in surgery (and will probably eventually apply to the allopathic programs as well), is it your opinion that I should take all steps of usmle?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstood my post (re-read point 4 closely). Most DO's who take both exams only take step 1 of the USMLE. It has nothing to do your license and everything to do w/ making yourself competative for certain residencies in certain areas (of which allopathic surgery fits). Please check out the other thread where people have specifically addressed this part.

I'm not too sure why any DO would take the USMLE step 2 and 3....though I guess theres a few rare programs who like to see an early step 2 score before the match...and I'm sure others can chime in w/ a few valid reasons.
 
you dont get an MD; however, most hospitals dont care and lump you in as an MD anyways.
 
Taus said:
I think you misunderstood my post (re-read point 4 closely). Most DO's who take both exams only take step 1 of the USMLE. It has nothing to do your license and everything to do w/ making yourself competative for certain residencies in certain areas (of which allopathic surgery fits). Please check out the other thread where people have specifically addressed this part.

I'm not too sure why any DO would take the USMLE step 2 and 3....though I guess theres a few rare programs who like to see an early step 2 score before the match...and I'm sure others can chime in w/ a few valid reasons.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification.
I won't be starting medical school until next fall, but I guess I started to get a little nervous about surgery residencies as I am reading through the comments on this website.
 
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You earn the medical degree the school grants you. You can't "turn and DO into a MD." Just like you can't change an MD into a DO. I know MD's who have taken tons of courses and are better at OMM than most DO's. They're still MD's...
 
ok, thank you guys for the clarification. I appreciate it.
 
Vix206 said:
actually, i think it's partially true. one of my physicians is a DO, but he took the USMLE and his certificate has an MD at the end of his name (i saw in his office). i remember being kind of confused. it's probably customary that they put MD on your certificate to signify your passing of the boards, but definitely does not change your overall status as a DO.
Click to expand...

Completely incorrect.

Your degree is that which is conferred by the instituion where you trained.

No outside licensing exam can give you a degree.

DO cannot become an MD.
DDS cannot become DMD.
DVM cannot become VMD.

Some hospitals and academic institutions lump all physicians under the MD title, regardless of whether the person actually holds a DO or MBBS degree.

I dont know why your doctor decides to display "MD" after his name, but his success at passing USMLE doesnt give him the MD degree.
 
just heard this from many people , a DO can take a 6 month online refresher course or something from somewhere and be offered the MD degree, i dunno i heard it and the people that said it were very serious

anyone heard similar?
 
helpmenow said:
just heard this from many people , a DO can take a 6 month online refresher course or something from somewhere and be offered the MD degree, i dunno i heard it and the people that said it were very serious

anyone heard similar?
Click to expand...
See Taus' post under #3.
 
In response to the first question;

No she cannot put MD behind her name, her degree was not granted that way. The university gives the degree. You can FAIL step 3 and still be an "MD" or a "DO", just not licensed or likely able to practice.

Also, why a DO would take the USMLE step III is odd. The step III is granted during or after internship (part of residency) and after the entitlement of the degree. For a DO, the USMLE is NOT NECESSARY for licensure, only the COMLEX. Regardless of the type of residency you are in MD or DO, you must take the final step that awards licensure.

DOs take step I and II of the USMLE to gain better placement in residencies.

The ONLY reason she may have taken the stepIII is possible fellowship placement...but no fellowship weights the step III with any significance.


PS, I am a DO that took the USMLE I, II and COMLEX I,II, III and then did an allopathic residency.
 
DocWagner said:
In response to the first question;

No she cannot put MD behind her name, her degree was not granted that way. The university gives the degree. You can FAIL step 3 and still be an "MD" or a "DO", just not licensed or likely able to practice.

Also, why a DO would take the USMLE step III is odd. The step III is granted during or after internship (part of residency) and after the entitlement of the degree. For a DO, the USMLE is NOT NECESSARY for licensure, only the COMLEX. Regardless of the type of residency you are in MD or DO, you must take the final step that awards licensure.

DOs take step I and II of the USMLE to gain better placement in residencies.

The ONLY reason she may have taken the stepIII is possible fellowship placement...but no fellowship weights the step III with any significance.


PS, I am a DO that took the USMLE I, II and COMLEX I,II, III and then did an allopathic residency.
Click to expand...


Thanks you very much for your help.
Do you feel taking usmle has helped you match into a residency of your choice?
 
supersash said:
wow very interesting.

i like their "reasons" for getting it! haha.
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lol yeah. although its quite a route just to get that MD ... i guess its for ppl who are seriously vain over the initials that would be behind their name. :laugh:
 
I saw someone who had an MD DO after their name and I was like wtf? Thanks to the people with too much time on their hands to figure these things out for me I can now sleep peacefully at night.:sleep:
 
DocWagner said:
It did not help me match, but it MAY have helped get my foot in the door.

I (and others) wrote a small article on this: http://www.aaemrsa.org/resources/osteopaths/index.php?topic=opinions
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Hi.. i read your article and it was very helpful, thank you for that... but i have a question. If I do the AOA internship year... and then decide to do an MD residency in something OTHER than EM... say orthopoedi surgery... will I have problems with HCFA not funding the residency, or is this only an EM issue? Thanks.
 
I agree that you cannot change once graduated, but there are some MD schools that accept transfers from DO schools into their 3/4th year class. I know Drexel does this... I saw it while browsing their website. I wasn't aware this happened, but I guess it makes sense as any DO curriculum would fulfill the first two years of an MD curriculum. Curious to know how often it happens?
 
I don't that there would be a funding issue at all, only in dire situations. People change residencies ALL THE TIME. We had 2 surgical residents change into my class in residency and then 1 in the year below and the year ahead.
Of course this is not legal or financial advice I am giving you.
WannaDoc: Yep you can transfer, no different. I have met 2 medical students that transferred in years 2 or 3.
 
WannaDoc said:
I agree that you cannot change once graduated, but there are some MD schools that accept transfers from DO schools into their 3/4th year class. I know Drexel does this... I saw it while browsing their website. I wasn't aware this happened, but I guess it makes sense as any DO curriculum would fulfill the first two years of an MD curriculum. Curious to know how often it happens?
Click to expand...

hey I looked at your profile...I was actually born in baku, azerbaijan
 
koshka said:
hey I looked at your profile...I was actually born in baku, azerbaijan
Click to expand...

I loved it there! I really want to travel back and visit someday... it was one of my favorite places in the world and I've travelled a ton.
 
WannaDoc said:
I loved it there! I really want to travel back and visit someday... it was one of my favorite places in the world and I've travelled a ton.
Click to expand...

What made you decide to visit there...I only lived there for a few years, but mostly i lived in uzbekistan
 
I agree that without some crazy 6 month "purchased" MD this isn't really possible unless something else like California in the 60s happens. This is doubtful. You should note, however, that most is not all allopathic schools will now accept transfers from U.S osteopathic medical schools after year ll. This might be something for those " I really really don't want a D.O " people. Everyone in this position must remember... You need a really good reason to transfer medical schools.. It is not something that is frequent, and isn't like transferring undergraduate schools. So you better have a huge tie to the school/area you would want to transfer to. According to the 15 allo school sites I looked at when reading this thread, there is no discrimination between transfers from allo or osteo schools. (Finally representing the shiny, new idea that us osteopaths are just as competent :)) Remember also though that one would need several letters of recommendation from faculty at their own school. This means you better have a really, really good reason for going to people when asking to transfer to that MD school... A simple " I really don't want to be a D.O" or " I love the letters M and D" Probably won't get you anything worth while.

All and all, this goes back to the really silly argument about the degrees and if DOs are as good as MDs and so on....

However, one interesting thing is seeing how the allo schools accept osteo transfers now (which BTW was not the practice a few years ago) combined with the fact that several osteo schools are ranked in the top 50 medical schools, (including MSUCOM at #4) kind of shows a switch in trend for medical professionals and allopathic schools administration beliefs...
 
koshka said:
What made you decide to visit there...I only lived there for a few years, but mostly i lived in uzbekistan
Click to expand...

I lived there for 2.5 years. My father works for an oil company... hence we've moved a lot/travelled a lot.
 
I dont think MSUCOM is ranked #4....maybe in a certain specialty..but definately not overall... my original question was if I did an AOA traditional year to fullfill the requirement of those 5 states... and then i went on to do an MD residency other than EM... would i have funding problems from HCFA.. because in that article it says that there would be if i did an AOA traditional year and then went on to do an MD residency in EM... thanks again...
 
WALKE219 said:
I agree that without some crazy 6 month "purchased" MD this isn't really possible unless something else like California in the 60s happens. This is doubtful. You should note, however, that most is not all allopathic schools will now accept transfers from U.S osteopathic medical schools after year ll. This might be something for those " I really really don't want a D.O " people. Everyone in this position must remember... You need a really good reason to transfer medical schools.. It is not something that is frequent, and isn't like transferring undergraduate schools. So you better have a huge tie to the school/area you would want to transfer to. According to the 15 allo school sites I looked at when reading this thread, there is no discrimination between transfers from allo or osteo schools. (Finally representing the shiny, new idea that us osteopaths are just as competent :)) Remember also though that one would need several letters of recommendation from faculty at their own school. This means you better have a really, really good reason for going to people when asking to transfer to that MD school... A simple " I really don't want to be a D.O" or " I love the letters M and D" Probably won't get you anything worth while.

All and all, this goes back to the really silly argument about the degrees and if DOs are as good as MDs and so on....

However, one interesting thing is seeing how the allo schools accept osteo transfers now (which BTW was not the practice a few years ago) combined with the fact that several osteo schools are ranked in the top 50 medical schools, (including MSUCOM at #4) kind of shows a switch in trend for medical professionals and allopathic schools administration beliefs...
Click to expand...


Transferring INTO the allopathic school isnt the hard part.

Getting the Dean to allow you to transfer OUT of your osteopathic school is.
 
JPHazelton said:
Transferring INTO the allopathic school isnt the hard part.

Getting the Dean to allow you to transfer OUT of your osteopathic school is.
Click to expand...


It should be the hard part. Shame on anyone who tries it.. Unless of course you NEED to relocate and there is no osteopathic school anywhere around there. Then I have no problem, but simply for initials, that is crazy.
 
JPHazelton said:
Transferring INTO the allopathic school isnt the hard part.

Getting the Dean to allow you to transfer OUT of your osteopathic school is.
Click to expand...

how realistic is it to transfer into an MD school from a DO school? as far as grades and board scores are concerned. Also, what can the dean of a DO medical school do if you wanted to transfer out... can they just say "no"?

thanks
 
LastDance said:
how realistic is it to transfer into an MD school from a DO school? as far as grades and board scores are concerned. Also, what can the dean of a DO medical school do if you wanted to transfer out... can they just say "no"?

thanks
Click to expand...

It is pretty unrealistic to transfer any type of medical school. Deans can refuse to give a letter if there is no very valid reason. Simply "I want to trade schools" is not one. The only real hope of transfer is if there is a married couple and one spouse must move for a job or something like that. There is no reason to transfer in between allopathic and osteopathic though.
 
LastDance said:
how realistic is it to transfer into an MD school from a DO school? as far as grades and board scores are concerned. Also, what can the dean of a DO medical school do if you wanted to transfer out... can they just say "no"?

thanks
Click to expand...

It would be impossible for an MD student to catch up to the OMT portion of the curriculum.

Yes...the school can reject your request for a transfer.
 
DocWagner said:
Also, why a DO would take the USMLE step III is odd.
Click to expand...

I took it because I had already taken the first 2 parts. I did not want to take the time and expense to travel away to take the COMLEX, which was offered only on particular days which did not suit me since I was on wards and could not get the time off. I don't need COMLEX for my full and unrestricted license (which I have) in the stsate where I am doing my residency and where I plan to work.

Also, incidentally, I have a fellow resident who graduated from DO school, then went offshore for a year or so and he officially is MD, DO.
 
Arch...
Rolling the dice eh? I wish you luck, honestly I have never met anyone that has gone your previously said path. I didn't even think it was possible, nor would I want to test that road in case it should come up at some inopportune time.
For the official state to state requirements:
http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html

Me, well, I plan or expect to possibly move, and the AOA and each specific medical board grant my licensure so completing my DO licensure is essential. I don't needs snags if I choose to move, and if I plan 30 years in practice...I need to expect the unexpected, there is no going back to "retake" the test.
 
DocWagner you are probably right, I am rolling the dice a little bit. The dates for the COMLEX were very inopportune for me and plus this is my own personal way of snubbing the AOA. Realistically though, I already have my license in the state where I intend to stay for all intents and purposes (same one where I am doing my residency). In the very slight chance that I move to an adjoining state, I am sure that none of them has a seperate osteopathic licensing authority. Although I haven't really looked into it, it seems unlikely that they would require COMLEX in lieu of the USMLE.

As I always say, always research on your own and take what is said here with a grain of salt!
 
Taus said:
maybe they meant primary care research:smuggrin:
Click to expand...

Do you guys know how they come up with the ranks for primary care? I read their "criteria", it all seems kinda odd.
Personally I think most ranking systems from US News are odd.
 
hi all,
I am still looking for a match list for umdnj-som...can anyone help?
 
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