Can this still be a lifestyle job?

[TooMuchResearch]

Threaten to leave her.

Pretty sure that ends with me living by myself in NZ and sending most of the money back for alimony and child support.

🫠

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[TooMuchResearch]

Honest question: do you have kids? I used to think the same way but I understand the pull of family and it's tough. Especially when you get to see your kids interact with their cousins and develop relationships with their aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. There are certainly difficulties and challenges with being a dual income household with kids and no relatives close by.

He does not.
Unless something very interesting happened.
Not to speak for others but I've been on SDN...15+ years now(!?!) and know a thing or two. Though I only know the irl names of three people and that's because they're known publicly outside SDN. I would guess some others are too but keep it more "anon."

 

[RustedFox]

Honest question: do you have kids? I used to think the same way but I understand the pull of family and it's tough. Especially when you get to see your kids interact with their cousins and develop relationships with their aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. There are certainly difficulties and challenges with being a dual income household with kids and no relatives close by.

No kids. Hell no.
I came from a big family and got to see the them on the holidays, etc. That was enough.

I'm talking about situations such as: "We would move to (city) because job and things but family is here" and I'm like... uhh, it's a :90 minute drive. Get in the effing car. Super common here.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

No kids. Hell no.
I came from a big family and got to see the them on the holidays, etc. That was enough.

I'm talking about situations such as: "We would move to (city) because job and things but family is here" and I'm like... uhh, it's a :90 minute drive. Get in the effing car. Super common here.

It’s tough to understand until you live it. I was the same way before I had kids but I’m not surprised now at what people will do in the name of family.

 

[RustedFox]

It’s tough to understand until you live it. I was the same way before I had kids but I’m not surprised now at what people will do in the name of family.

I mean, I understand the argument that "since I don't have kids, I have little footing in this matter", but at the same time I'm like: "it's not a different state, region, or timezone. Tell the fam to get their asses here if they wanna see the kids and you'll find out just how much they really wanna see the kids."

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Honest question: do you have kids? I used to think the same way but I understand the pull of family and it's tough. Especially when you get to see your kids interact with their cousins and develop relationships with their aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. There are certainly difficulties and challenges with being a dual income household with kids and no relatives close by.

I was raised hundreds of miles away from any extended family, and my wife and I currently live hundreds of miles from either of our families.

My current rheumatology job is really, really good (as in I make 2-3x more than what I was making at my original crappy hospital job) and thus I wouldn’t trade it for the world. The dramatically better pay and treatment I get at this job is far more important to us than having grandma living down the street. Making this much more money means my wife can afford not to work, and can watch the kids. It also means we can afford traveling to see people regularly. Thus, living this far away seems to work out ok. In-laws fly in to visit fairly frequently, and sometimes they drive to see us in their RV. We fly/drive elsewhere to see people. It’s really not the end of the world.

(And not moving over a 90 minute drive? Seriously?)

 

[JacobMcCandles]

I was raised hundreds of miles away from any extended family, and my wife and I currently live hundreds of miles from either of our families.

My current rheumatology job is really, really good (as in I make 2-3x more than what I was making at my original crappy hospital job) and thus I wouldn’t trade it for the world. The dramatically better pay and treatment I get at this job is far more important to us than having grandma living down the street. Making this much more money means my wife can afford not to work, and can watch the kids. It also means we can afford traveling to see people regularly. Thus, living this far away seems to work out ok. In-laws fly in to visit fairly frequently, and sometimes they drive to see us in their RV. We fly/drive elsewhere to see people. It’s really not the end of the world.

(And not moving over a 90 minute drive? Seriously?)

We've been in similar positions. I'm just saying that I understand when people choose that aspect over other aspects of their life.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

I mean, I understand the argument that "since I don't have kids, I have little footing in this matter", but at the same time I'm like: "it's not a different state, region, or timezone. Tell the fam to get their asses here if they wanna see the kids and you'll find out just how much they really wanna see the kids."

Date nights, sick kid coverage (this one is huge when they're in daycare), cook outs, just a night in while they take the kids somewhwere, etc. There are lots of things where being 1-2 hours away is pretty inconvenient. Different strokes for different folks but I'm just saying I understand the decisions that people make with regards to family at the expense of other aspects of their life.

 

[Pinner Doc]

The tone of this is not meant to be adversarial:

I absolutely do not understand the "extended family keeps me here" nonsense.
Is it YOUR family?
Are YOU the head of your household?
Do YOU call the shots?

No, I don't care what Tia or Abuela (or whatever their equivalents are) has to say. They don't go to work and pay your bills.

My father died in December. My only sibling died 13 years ago. My mother is aging and someone needs to care for her.

I think for many of us in the “sandwich generation,” raising children but also cognizant of aging parents, this is a common theme.

 

[xaelia]

sick kid coverage (this one is huge when they're in daycare)

Out here in Normal Planet land, if your kid is sick, you take a sick day.

It's culturally normalized the family comes before your work. It's the employer's responsibility to anticipate a predictable amount of sick call and have mitigations.

 

[Porfirio]

Out here in Normal Planet land, if your kid is sick, you take a sick day.

It's culturally normalized the family comes before your work. It's the employer's responsibility to anticipate a predictable amount of sick call and have mitigations.

Honestly, I understand the desire to have sick days. But I also subscribe to the belief that I am a small business (1099). If I were an employee (W2), different story and the CMG/whoever could owe me sick days.

 

[cyanide12345678]

I grew up in Pakistan where celebrations included all extended family members. I grew up knowing all my cousins and my first cousins i probably saw at least once every other week.

But i don’t think I’ve valued that much at all when i moved to the US. I think if you work on it, you could effectively replace family with a friends circle that feels like family.

While i legitimately considered moving back to Texas where my brother was 3 years ago, the job market in Austin/Dallas was bad enough where i didn’t feel like taking a crappy job just to be near family. Instead we moved to the midwest where we knew absolutely no one, but had excellent career opportunities at ERs that i would consider sustainable. A part of me thinks we should have even considered the dakotas because some of the job posts i see coming out of there are incredible 😂

But over time, we’ve replaced the need for family. Have a group of 6-7 families with kids around 3-6 years old who basically hang out 2-3 times a month. We’ve effectively replaced what i had growing up with a friends circle. So i think family is replaceable.

This is why a part of me doesn’t care about moving again - I’ve moved so much - pakistan -> Illinois-> multiple cities in Texas -> Ohio -> Indiana. Honestly my mortgage rate of 2.75% is truly what has grounded us more than anything else.

But maybe at 40, in 5 years, i might leave it all and just move to Spain/portugal/kuala lumpur/Greece. I should have 4 million in investment assets by then and could retire in those countries to never work again.

 

[Apollyon]

Greece. I should have 4 million in investment assets by then and could retire in those countries to never work again.

Just like all the other Greeks!

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Out here in Normal Planet land, if your kid is sick, you take a sick day.

It's culturally normalized the family comes before your work. It's the employer's responsibility to anticipate a predictable amount of sick call and have mitigations.

The ED (and many aspects of medicine) isn't Normal Planet Land.

 

[xaelia]

The ED (and many aspects of medicine) isn't Normal Planet Land.

I work in the ED ... by "Normal Planet Land" I mean outside the U.S. ....

 

[Waterlover]

Yes it can be lifestyle. IF you work as 1099/IC. Basically do locums only, and work when you truly want. With W2 job you'll be stuck to be having to work half the holidays, half the weekends, some nights unless you're at a place with nocturnists, etc. True freedom and the "lifestyle" in EM is if you work full PRN locums

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Yes it can be lifestyle. IF you work as 1099/IC. Basically do locums only, and work when you truly want. With W2 job you'll be stuck to be having to work half the holidays, half the weekends, some nights unless you're at a place with nocturnists, etc. True freedom and the "lifestyle" in EM is if you work full PRN locums

I mean maybe? This isn't good catch all advice for all comers. You either need to a) come from means or have an already established nest egg, b) be married to someone who can provide reasonably priced health insurance, or c) don't get sick.

In addition:

1) it's not inherently easy to get a rotation of 5-6 places to string together a FT or close to FT compliment of hours. And it will become harder and harder to achieve this with the glut of residents being graduated. Shops hate PRN / locums and you'll be the first out.

2) These sort of "locums lifers" have a reputation. In my experience, many have weird personalities, are weak clinically, and downright combative w staff, patients and other doctors. They don't tend to play well in the sandbox.

That all being said, I do think if you have a nice 2-3 million or more in assets and are sorta on that "coast FIRE" path, it can be a good move for a mid to late career physician, so long as you can tolerate the potential monthly swings in income. Or maybe you're a young buck who doesn't care that much about living an inflated lifestyle and are happy w a modest existence (likely without kids cause those things are luxury items believe me). It definitely is a tradeoff between freedom and predictable income.