Can this still be a lifestyle job?

[nopainnogain21]

Hey docs, I’m a recent grad out of fellowship and working 120 hrs/month. For the seasoned docs out here, do you think this can still be a lifestyle specialty working 80-100 hours a month? I know it’s generally not a good time for EM right now but hard to beat 8-10 days a month of clinical work.

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[RustedFox]

EM hasn't been a "lifestyle specialty" for a decade, amigo.

 

[Tiger26]

Between admin stuff and clinical shifts, I work anywhere from 1.25-1.75 FTE most months and I still get a chance to have two side businesses, spend a few days/month at Army Guard drill, take my kids to/from school most days and go to almost all of their events (karate, soccer, pool, etc) while making 500k/year.

A lot of people complain but I don't think things are that horrible with EM.

To me, whether it's a lifestyle job depends on how you live it.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Honestly, i work 10 shifts a month, i think i have a very reasonable lifestyle now.

My next step is to go to 8 shifts after 2 years, after that i might just become PRN only.

So, i think if someone worked 6-8 shifts a month, emergency medicine can provide an excellent lifestyle, especially if you still bring in 200-250k working that many shifts

 

[throway134]

I think this largely depends on how you feel while working those shifts and between shifts.

If you can clock-in and clock-out without getting hung up in between or after on what happened, I think it’s a lot easier.

I ruminated myself into a different field, and I am much happier personally. A lot of people feel that way when they leave (see the pain thread), but a lot of people obviously stay, and can afford to retire young if they keep lifestyle in check.

 

[RustedFox]

Honestly, i work 10 shifts a month, i think i have a very reasonable lifestyle now.

My next step is to go to 8 shifts after 2 years, after that i might just become PRN only.

So, i think if someone worked 6-8 shifts a month, emergency medicine can provide an excellent lifestyle, especially if you still bring in 200-250k working that many shifts

Bro, you know that I love you, but you also know that you're 3 standard deviations above the mean when it comes to finances and such.
You and freakin' Scrooge McDuck (whatever his name is EmergentMD or whatever) don't really get to tell the kids how it is.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Bro, you know that I love you, but you also know that you're 3 standard deviations above the mean when it comes to finances and such.
You and freakin' Scrooge McDuck (whatever his name is EmergentMD or whatever) don't really get to tell the kids how it is.

Lol im far far away from where emergent is. Hes in another league, me not so much.

Though, I didn’t do anything special that others cannot do. All i did was - marry right, low maintenance girl who meaningfully contributes to the family, lived in the midwest to keep costs down, and then saved and invested aggressively.

The first million is the hardest and takes the longest, that’s really when one has to hustle, can definitely start slowing down after that.

 

[RustedFox]

Lol im far far away from where emergent is. Hes in another league, me not so much.

Though, I didn’t do anything special that others cannot do. All i did was - marry right, low maintenance girl who meaningfully contributes to the family, lived in the midwest to keep costs down, and then saved and invested aggressively.

The first million is the hardest and takes the longest, that’s really when one has to hustle, can definitely start slowing down after that.

I'm with you all the way up to "live in the Midwest". I lived in Central/West PA for my first 22 years, and I've had enough of 6 months of winter, 4 months of wet gloom, and 2 months of "question mark".

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

EM can only be a "lifestyle" job when you no longer need the income, and you're now working only because you (for some strange reason) still like it. What this means is that you should AGGRESSIVELY pay down your educational debt, AGGRESSIVELY invest, and continue to "live like a resident" until you've paid it all down and banked at minimum 1 million USD.

Beyond that, any medical student going into EM in 2024 is either blind or dumb.

Caveat: You can choose EM if you're couples matching with somebody who chose a smart/real specialty like Ortho or Derm or IM/Cardiology or Anesthesiology. The actual cheat code is dual physician income. The most comfortable and set couples I know are the dual doc incomes.

 

[Splenda88]

It's definitely a lifestyle specialty if you can make a good living working 20-25 hrs/wk.

 

[gutonc]

It's definitely a lifestyle specialty if you can make a good living working 20-25 hrs/wk.

The problem is that many of the people who are a decade or more deep in EM right now were raised on the promise of $300-500/hr for 12-15 shifts a month, taking care of real emergencies. The reality these days is much different.

Now...if you have a lifestyle that you're willing to support on ~$200k a year (admittedly a 90th%ile income), then yes, EM can be a lifestyle specialty. But the salad days of the early 2000s of $500/h PRN shifts around every corner are long gone.

 

[Splenda88]

The problem is that many of the people who are a decade or more deep in EM right now were raised on the promise of $300-500/hr for 12-15 shifts a month, taking care of real emergencies. The reality these days is much different.

Now...if you have a lifestyle that you're willing to support on ~$200k a year (admittedly a 90th%ile income), then yes, EM can be a lifestyle specialty. But the salad days of the early 2000s of $500/h PRN shifts around every corner are long gone.

If you are not wealthy with more than a decade into EM, you probably have made poor financial decisions IMO. Even when I was a med school in 2014-2018, people were making $300+/hr.

 

[bky3c]

It's definitely a lifestyle specialty if you can make a good living working 20-25 hrs/wk.

I don't remember what he called them, but see Birdstrike's laws about the idea that 1 hour in the ED is actually 1.5 hours thanks to rotating shifts, DOMAs, etc.

 

[Splenda88]

I don't remember what he called them, but see Birdstrike's laws about the idea that 1 hour in the ED is actually 1.5 hours thanks to rotating shifts, DOMAs, etc.

Probably true. 20 ED hrs is still 30 hrs of a regular hospitalist gig.

If you say to any American you make 225-250k/yr working 30 hrs/wk, they will not believe you.

 

[GatorCHOMPions]

It seems like EM still provides good value for those who are childless and/or geographically flexible. If you want to live in a desirable area and/or have a family it is not very lifestyle friendly.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Probably true. 20 ED hrs is still 30 hrs of a regular hospitalist gig.

If you say to any American you make 225-250k/yr working 30 hrs/wk, they will not believe you.

My wife’s new gig makes us 250k 1099 working 15 hours a week, 3 days a week. Great lifestyle gig. Full flexibility. Commute is unfortunately an hour each way.

Edit: i wish i was FM trained.

 

[Splenda88]

My wife’s new gig makes us 250k 1099 working 15 hours a week, 3 days a week. Great lifestyle gig. Full flexibility. Commute is unfortunately an hour each way.

Edit: i wish i was FM trained.

1 hr commute (3 days/wk) is nothing for that kind of money/lifestyle.

 

[RustedFox]

I don't remember what he called them, but see Birdstrike's laws about the idea that 1 hour in the ED is actually 1.5 hours thanks to rotating shifts, DOMAs, etc.

He called it the "Birdstrike Multiplier".

 

[cyanide12345678]

He called it the "Birdstrike Multiplier".

Depends on the place you practice. 80 percent of community ERs where you see 2-3 pph are definitely 1.5x of a normal hour in medicine.

Here’s an example of a gig: Rural Minnesota making 165/hr and seeing 8-10 patients per 24 hours (0.4 pph). I don’t live in St paul/Minneapolis but these places are not far from there. 300k, working 6 24s a month, seeing around 60 patients a month, almost always getting a full nights sleep during a 24. That’s a pretty reasonable lifestyle gig if you ask me if you live in Minneapolis.

So EM can be a lifestyle gig but you need a practice environment where you aren’t just grinding away at a relentless pace which may mean geographical compromise.

 

[Porfirio]

I am basically debt free now and have about $2 million net worth (only debt is my mortgage which is $350k). I worked almost double what a normal doc works for the past 5 years. Now I am starting to slow down. The more I slow down the more CMGs are trying to stuff $100 bills down my mouth to get me to work. There is a huge doc shortage for CMGs.

Money from CMGs is about which column in the expense table you are. I have been firmly in the variable column because I am PRN at multiple hospitals (6+ hospitals in my area and one which is 4 hrs away). My fellow docs are in the fixed column because they are full time. They get treated like **** and I get treated with thank$ here’$ more $.

There is no point to being full time anywhere anymore. Go PRN everywhere and only work 60-80 hrs. They will call you.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I think outside of major metros there will always be EM “lifestyle” gigs to be found if one looks a bit and keeps their ears open.

I think lifestyle gig should be classified though - this is not a job where you can make crazy money working a little. You can work very little, have a phenomenal lifestyle, or work a lot and make a boatload of money (if you can withstand the burn).

 

[nopainnogain21]

I think outside of major metros there will always be EM “lifestyle” gigs to be found if one looks a bit and keeps their ears open.

I think lifestyle gig should be classified though - this is not a job where you can make crazy money working a little. You can work very little, have a phenomenal lifestyle, or work a lot and make a boatload of money (if you can withstand the burn).

 

[nopainnogain21]

Thanks for the responses. Though I agree EM daily shift hours and rotating scheduling is horrible for longevity. I am tempted by the idea of 80 hours a month or 2 shifts a week and 5 days off. Especially once loans are paid for.

In major metro areas, 2 shifts a week makes what a full time FM doc makes without the hassle of the inbox and patient calls

 

[EctopicFetus]

I will say be careful. I hope I’m wrong but by 2027 pay will be down, jobs will be hard to come by but not impossible.

By 2030 it’s gonna be a hot mess. Pay will drop even more.

It can be a lifestyle speciality but much depends on the money you need and how much you want to invest into the job.

I didn’t want the locums / pt type job. I found a legit 1% type job. I can work as many hours as I want making money that makes me blush. With that my lifestyle has creeped up but I always made sure to save money first.

Lots of options to save in tax deferred accounts and expense stuff keeping uncle Sam’s paws off your dough.

On top of that the docs in Cali especially SoCal make substandard money state taxes and vhcol.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Uhhhhh...it's fine? I guess?

7 years out of residency with 1 mil assets (despite a divorce and paying about 250k in student loans) working standard EM hours.

If this were 2000 I'd have a McMansion and a vacation home. In 2024 I afford a nice primary home only.

The multiple PRN gig life is prob the best way to go, financially at least. To me, that feels kinda stressful though.

I had Ortho/Derm numbers. Shoulda went that way, but, I went EM, so I am min/maxing that now.

Would not advise a med student to go EM in 2024.

 

[valianteffort]

Uhhhhh...it's fine? I guess?

7 years out of residency with 1 mil assets (despite a divorce and paying about 250k in student loans) working standard EM hours.

If this were 2000 I'd have a McMansion and a vacation home. In 2024 I afford a nice primary home only.

The multiple PRN gig life is prob the best way to go, financially at least. To me, that feels kinda stressful though.

I had Ortho/Derm numbers. Shoulda went that way, but, I went EM, so I am min/maxing that now.

Would not advise a med student to go EM in 2024.

I had pathology/family med numbers and I went EM. Glad we are taking this journey together

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Depends what you consider "lifestyle". Not many jobs will let you amass a fairly significant amount of money and then let you go part time in your mid-40s while still making enough to cover the expenses of a comfortable life while your nest egg continues to grow. But, not many jobs will have you working evenings, nights, weekends, and holidays, either.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Here's one issue I don't see discussed often here: Task switching. In Ortho, you get to do one hip arthroplasty at a time. Yeah you might have 4 of them to do in a day and maybe be you're at the hospital from 6am to 8pm, but generally you concentrate one one patient at a time. Maybe a PA or someone comes into the OR to discuss a consult with you, whatever.

In EM, you are constantly task switching. See an ankle sprain, get interrupted for an EKG, write half a note get interrupted for a zofran order, sign another EKGs, resume the note you were on, interrupted for patient that you DC already that now "has more questions", see an abdominal pain that has a billion tangents, go back to note #1, interrupted by a "stroke alert" that's really a febrile altered 90 year old, wait where was I on note #1?, sign another EKG, answer BS phone call from radiology about patient they don't want to give contrast to, sign another EKG, pulled to see dying toddler for 2 hours. Repeat repeat repeat.

Spoiler alert: no matter how good you think you are at "multi tasking", you are not good at multi tasking. We know this from science. It's been studied. Humans are not wired for this.

But guess what? You're still expected to be perfect. And be fast. And provide a good "patient experience." If you think good, fast, nice are three factors that you cannot feasibly maximize, you'd be right, because the system is designed so that you can it possibly maximize all three. You can do 2/3 at best.

Task switching makes you more agitated, at work and at home. It decreased your attention span, at work and at home. It decreases your short term memory recall, at work and at home.

If you have good nurses they can shield you from some of this, but not all. Certain geographic setups can also help, like being in an enclosed docbox, but again, not perfect.

Add to this the constant soundtrack of patients screaming, gomers letting out their animal calls, and monitors alarming to signal nothing, and it's a cacaphony of bull crap. Yet, you are tasked with picking out the 1% signal through all that noise, every time, with perfection.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Here's one issue I don't see discussed often here: Task switching. In Ortho, you get to do one hip arthroplasty at a time. Yeah you might have 4 of them to do in a day and maybe be you're at the hospital from 6am to 8pm, but generally you concentrate one one patient at a time. Maybe a PA or someone comes into the OR to discuss a consult with you, whatever.

In EM, you are constantly task switching. See an ankle sprain, get interrupted for an EKG, write half a note get interrupted for a zofran order, sign another EKGs, resume the note you were on, interrupted for patient that you DC already that now "has more questions", see an abdominal pain that has a billion tangents, go back to note #1, interrupted by a "stroke alert" that's really a febrile altered 90 year old, wait where was I on note #1?, sign another EKG, answer BS phone call from radiology about patient they don't want to give contrast to, sign another EKG, pulled to see dying toddler for 2 hours. Repeat repeat repeat.

Spoiler alert: no matter how good you think you are at "multi tasking", you are not good at multi tasking. We know this from science. It's been studied. Humans are not wired for this.

But guess what? You're still expected to be perfect. And be fast. And provide a good "patient experience." If you think good, fast, nice are three factors that you cannot feasibly maximize, you'd be right, because the system is designed so that you can it possibly maximize all three. You can do 2/3 at best.

Task switching makes you more agitated, at work and at home. It decreased your attention span, at work and at home. It decreases your short term memory recall, at work and at home.

If you have good nurses they can shield you from some of this, but not all. Certain geographic setups can also help, like being in an enclosed docbox, but again, not perfect.

Add to this the constant soundtrack of patients screaming, gomers letting out their animal calls, and monitors alarming to signal nothing, and it's a cacaphony of bull crap. Yet, you are tasked with picking out the 1% signal through all that noise, every time, with perfection.

This is one of the things that makes pain medicine so much simpler than working in the ER. Even when I'm having an issue with a procedure, I literally have nothing else to do besides that procedure. Yeah, I might be building up a backlog of things I need to do quickly afterwards if I'm burning time, but in the moment I have one task, and everyone in the room with me is solely there to help me get that task done.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

I will follow up my posts by saying that none of the issues I've expounded on are enough for me to change careers, mostly because I have a child to support and I haven't seen any other feasible opportunities that are worth the squeeze.

However it's enough to strongly advise lurking medical students not to pursue EM.

I def could have done wayyy worse by choosing peds or obgyn or gensurg etc.

 

[endo]

If you're EMS fellowship trained I have a lifestyle opportunity available... there are still diamonds in the rough. Message me if interested.

 

[Torsion]

I think outside of major metros there will always be EM “lifestyle” gigs to be found if one looks a bit and keeps their ears open.

I think lifestyle gig should be classified though - this is not a job where you can make crazy money working a little. You can work very little, have a phenomenal lifestyle, or work a lot and make a boatload of money (if you can withstand the burn).

Depends on your definition of "crazy" money. 500k + a year working 120 hours a month is attainable.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Depends on your definition of "crazy" money. 500k + a year working 120 hours a month is attainable.

Attainable? Sure.

Realistic? Not so much.

Need a strong SDG or a wheelin and dealin locums situation.

 

[retro]

It's reassuring to see that many in this thread think alike. I'm now 5 years out of residency, and saved up about 1.4 mil. I've been hustling for the past 5 yrs, and I hope to cut down my hours in the future. I plan on going part time (20 hrs/wk) when I hit 2 mil, and eventually cut down to being a PRN doc. Assuming I marry a person with a stable job which offers medical insurance for the spouse, what are some difficulties that I might face as a PRN doc? I'd love to hear some first hand experience from the ones who successfully made this transition.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

It's reassuring to see that many in this thread think alike. I'm now 5 years out of residency, and saved up about 1.4 mil. I've been hustling for the past 5 yrs, and I hope to cut down my hours in the future. I plan on going part time (20 hrs/wk) when I hit 2 mil, and eventually cut down to being a PRN doc. Assuming I marry a person with a stable job which offers medical insurance for the spouse, what are some difficulties that I might face as a PRN doc? I'd love to hear some first hand experience from the ones who successfully made this transition.

PRN / locums is best when you don't really NEED the income. Not only can you then negotiate from a place of relative power, but also you don't care when a place no longer needs you.

My group has relied on PRN / locums a bunch but we're gradually cutting them out as FTers come on board.

 

[Porfirio]

It's reassuring to see that many in this thread think alike. I'm now 5 years out of residency, and saved up about 1.4 mil. I've been hustling for the past 5 yrs, and I hope to cut down my hours in the future. I plan on going part time (20 hrs/wk) when I hit 2 mil, and eventually cut down to being a PRN doc. Assuming I marry a person with a stable job which offers medical insurance for the spouse, what are some difficulties that I might face as a PRN doc? I'd love to hear some first hand experience from the ones who successfully made this transition.

You have to remember the names of many consultants/nurses/other docs.

You have to act like a guest in the department (work hard, good behavior, positivity). Only good guests get invited back.

You have to stay ahead of the labor cycle and predict different department needs.

You have to be willing to contact multiple people and get to know them to get creds. Once you have creds - this becomes a none issue.

You have to say “No” in a way that gives you an out while also leaving the door open for being asked again.

Help other docs out at the last minute when they personally need a shift to be covered.

Save/Spend wisely/Prepare - some months will be like gold at the end of the rainbow, and some will be ehhhh (still better than your full time colleagues).

Never tell other docs what you are making. Remember, you have to relate and be on friendly terms with some dude making $185 (as full time) while you are pulling in $375.

This fiscal year (like the past 4) will be six-digit income more because of PRN bonus income compared to my full time colleagues.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Depends on your definition of "crazy" money. 500k + a year working 120 hours a month is attainable.

DM me where to get a $350/hr or higher job...

 

[valianteffort]

DM me where to get a $350/hr or higher job...

quite a few spots in Wisconsin, Alabama, Minnesota and Ohio that I see right now. 325 with travel, 350+ if local

 

[TooMuchResearch]

quite a few spots in Wisconsin, Alabama, Minnesota and Ohio that I see right now. 325 with travel, 350+ if local

Check PM if you can thanks

 

[EctopicFetus]

Depends on your definition of "crazy" money. 500k + a year working 120 hours a month is attainable.

Whats the cost of this.. 1440 hours.. 500k.. is just under 350/hr.. that's not easy to find.. is it there.. somewhere? sure.. Is it a "normal" Em job NFW. Also, I will yell this from up on high.. The market is gonna get all messed up.

For me I have no desire to live a locums life. I don't want to travel from home, I don't want to be credentialed at 25 hospitals and hold licenses in 7 states. Nothing wrong with it just not for me.

ill point out vituity pitches $300/hr for their "ambassadors". That sounds like 2010 money.. I hear about more.. including rarely now $400/hr.. i had friends making 1k/hr about a decade ago in some unique circumstances. Hard to get consistent $350/hr.. i know one guy not in an SDG making $370/hr about an hour from his house. Gets fairly regular hours there but its been up and down for him, some months gets little to nothing.. others gets as much as he wants.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Re PRN/Locums.. every hospital and group is trying to eliminate this. There is a sweet spot potentially for sure but the long term outlook is bad.. its gotten worse from a decade ago and no matter what you believe about the workforce issues one thing is true.. We are graduating more and more residents every year. 15 years ago, tons of SDGs and you could get a job in any city. San Diego, Denver etc. Now cities that are desirable but not the biggies are pretty full. People are forced to take jobs an hour away etc.. Eventually those will all be full too.. the future is not bright.

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

Re PRN/Locums.. every hospital and group is trying to eliminate this. There is a sweet spot potentially for sure but the long term outlook is bad.. its gotten worse from a decade ago and no matter what you believe about the workforce issues one thing is true.. We are graduating more and more residents every year. 15 years ago, tons of SDGs and you could get a job in any city. San Diego, Denver etc. Now cities that are desirable but not the biggies are pretty full. People are forced to take jobs an hour away etc.. Eventually those will all be full too.. the future is not bright.

Completely correct

This idea of "Forever PRN" and/or "oh, I'll just work 80 hours per month part-time and make less but have more time" is a fantasy for the reasons stated above.

No director keeps their bench full of part-timers; you're generally the first to go once they fill with full-timers and people willing to work FT or more than FT.

So now you're forced to keep credentials at 5-6 places, which is expensive if you work part-time. And now you're, by definition, doing locums except semi-locally.

The only way to do this reliably is to be a part-time nocturnist, which entirely defeats the purpose. Nocturnist work, by definition, is not lifestyle work based on health and schedule disruption.

 

[Porfirio]

Completely correct

This idea of "Forever PRN" and/or "oh, I'll just work 80 hours per month part-time and make less but have more time" is a fantasy for the reasons stated above.

No director keeps their bench full of part-timers; you're generally the first to go once they fill with full-timers and people willing to work FT or more than FT.

So now you're forced to keep credentials at 5-6 places, which is expensive if you work part-time. And now you're, by definition, doing locums except semi-locally.

The only way to do this reliably is to be a part-time nocturnist, which entirely defeats the purpose. Nocturnist work, by definition, is not lifestyle work based on health and schedule disruption.

Every shop goes through cycles of needing PRN and not needing PRN. No director has a bench without PRN (except maybe high paying SDGs in desirable locations- unicorns).

August/Sept/October tends to be lean months because of new grads (for me). Nov/Dec/May/June/July tends to be all you can eat buffet (for me). Jan/Feb/March/April (except for Spring break time period) tends to be ehhhh. Also, a large portion of new grads quit their first job within the first year. Or an older doc wants to go on vacation last minute and wants out of their shift. Guess who fills that gap?

If you have creds at 6 shops, you will have plenty of spread to fill your schedule with the shifts you want.

The crappy thing is having to turn down a 2x pay shift because you are already working a 1.5x pay shift. I feel so bad… and it happens often.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Whats the cost of this.. 1440 hours.. 500k.. is just under 350/hr.. that's not easy to find.. is it there.. somewhere? sure.. Is it a "normal" Em job NFW. Also, I will yell this from up on high.. The market is gonna get all messed up.

For me I have no desire to live a locums life. I don't want to travel from home, I don't want to be credentialed at 25 hospitals and hold licenses in 7 states. Nothing wrong with it just not for me.

ill point out vituity pitches $300/hr for their "ambassadors". That sounds like 2010 money.. I hear about more.. including rarely now $400/hr.. i had friends making 1k/hr about a decade ago in some unique circumstances. Hard to get consistent $350/hr.. i know one guy not in an SDG making $370/hr about an hour from his house. Gets fairly regular hours there but its been up and down for him, some months gets little to nothing.. others gets as much as he wants.

I made $260/hr in 2017 working for something similar to "ambassadors." That's $330/hr now.

Plus traveling for work absolutely sucks. I'd need like 1k/hr to do that job now.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Every shop goes through cycles of needing PRN and not needing PRN. No director has a bench without PRN (except maybe high paying SDGs in desirable locations- unicorns).

August/Sept/October tends to be lean months because of new grads (for me). Nov/Dec/May/June/July tends to be all you can eat buffet (for me). Jan/Feb/March/April (except for Spring break time period) tends to be ehhhh. Also, a large portion of new grads quit their first job within the first year. Or an older doc wants to go on vacation last minute and wants out of their shift. Guess who fills that gap?

If you have creds at 6 shops, you will have plenty of spread to fill your schedule with the shifts you want.

The crappy thing is having to turn down a 2x pay shift because you are already working a 1.5x pay shift. I feel so bad… and it happens often.

I have been lucky to be at good sdg shops. Never had locums or prn people in the true meaning. Some of our partners barely work but they are scheduled for their work. All I’m saying is it might be good now but it’s about to get lean. My main advice would be to prepare. If you live in even a remotely desirable city your work is gonna dry up. Might take 3-5 years but it’s gonna dry up.

I would try to find the unicorn job. It’s out there. It’s the only protection we have as individuals.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I made $260/hr in 2017 working for something similar to "ambassadors." That's $330/hr now.

Plus traveling for work absolutely sucks. I'd need like 1k/hr to do that job now.

Personally I have no interest in this stuff. I want to sleep in my bed and make a lot of
Money in. System I’m familiar with. I have turned down pretty good money cause I don’t want to commute and I can almost always do a whole lot better at my main shop. I would simply say every gig is dependent on your desire. I’ll also repeat the well is about to get very dry. Maybe I’m wrong but I wouldn’t bet my families well being on it.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I made $260/hr in 2017 working for something similar to "ambassadors." That's $330/hr now.

Plus traveling for work absolutely sucks. I'd need like 1k/hr to do that job now.

I mean $300/hr with Vituity for travel seems horrific to me.

 

[Porfirio]

I have been lucky to be at good sdg shops. Never had locums or prn people in the true meaning. Some of our partners barely work but they are scheduled for their work. All I’m saying is it might be good now but it’s about to get lean. My main advice would be to prepare. If you live in even a remotely desirable city your work is gonna dry up. Might take 3-5 years but it’s gonna dry up.

I would try to find the unicorn job. It’s out there. It’s the only protection we have as individuals.

Lucky you, no SDG option that makes sense for me. I guess I made my own by going full PRN.

5 years out, made 9-11 years worth of normal FT income, hopefully get at least another 4.5-7.5 years worth of income over that 3-5 years you projected, and will be done.

But who knows. Let’s say you are right and it dries up in 3-5 years. What do you think the CMG FT guys will be earning by then? Do you think their hourly is going to go up if supply is so high there are no PRN opportunities? I say get what you can, while you can.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Lucky you, no SDG option that makes sense for me. I guess I made my own by going full PRN.

5 years out, made 9-11 years worth of normal FT income, hopefully get at least another 4.5-7.5 years worth of income over that 3-5 years you projected, and will be done.

But who knows. Let’s say you are right and it dries up in 3-5 years. What do you think the CMG FT guys will be earning by then? Do you think their hourly is going to go up if supply is so high there are no PRN opportunities? I say get what you can, while you can.

Yeah. Get it while you can. Cmg pay is gonna plummet. Pockets are seeing this already. My opinion is and the smart thing for a capitalist to do is overhire. Let’s say I needed 200 shifts a month in coverage. I’ll hire for 225 plus get some prn folks. I’ll eventually get the opposite of what locums is doing. I’ll let the docs eat themselves while I offer them hours only at lower and lower rates.

It’s surely worked well for you. It’s an option. I am saying if I was a new grad I wouldn’t play that game. You could end up with no reasonable employment options. Smart move is get a ft job work minimal hours there then pick up to supplement the money so when the whole thing collapses you have your foot in the door and have guaranteed income.

If you think you’ll be done in 3-5 years you’ll be able to squeeze it out especially if you are willing to move and work flexible stuff.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Short term it can work. Many new grads don’t want to work a bunch of hours. I grinded right out.