Can we the students do something to end saturation?

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PharmD2Be48

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Look, in my school, the first class back in the 80's graduated 25 students. Today they are pumping out ~200! I'm sure this happened in other schools as well and we all know more schools have opened. Cant we the students do something? I mean there must be close to 50,000 pharmacy students (P1-P4) at any given time in the country, cant we all come together and demand that new schools NOT open and high volume schools cut their class sizes by 20% or so? There must be something we can do! Of course, current R.Ph.s would be welcome to join our cause!
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Sure you can. Drop out of pharmacy school.
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So instead of coming up with something that could help ALL pharmacists, you prefer for current students to give up on their dreams/time/investments/money so that you can further your career. Its a dog eat dog world out there, and you are chomping hard.
 
PharmD2Be48 said:
So instead of coming up with something that could help ALL pharmacists, you prefer for current students to give up on their dreams/time/investments/money so that you can further your career. Its a dog eat dog world out there, and you are chomping hard.
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You would do the same
 
PharmD2Be48 said:
So instead of coming up with something that could help ALL pharmacists, you prefer for current students to give up on their dreams/time/investments/money so that you can further your career. Its a dog eat dog world out there, and you are chomping hard.
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If there weren't students applying to new schools, new schools wouldn't open. Simple supply and demand.

Carve out a niche for yourself and be unique. Beyond that, it's who you know.
 
Its Z said:
You would do the same
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No I wouldn't and I demonstrated that. Did you read my first post? I suggested ALL students and pharmacists bind together and with sheer man power, try to do something about the problem. I would never tell someone to drop out of school. That is just selfish and surely not the trait that a pharmacist should have.
 
PharmD2Be48 said:
Look, in my school, the first class back in the 80's graduated 25 students. Today they are pumping out ~200! I'm sure this happened in other schools as well and we all know more schools have opened. Cant we the students do something? I mean there must be close to 50,000 pharmacy students (P1-P4) at any given time in the country, cant we all come together and demand that new schools NOT open and high volume schools cut their class sizes by 20% or so? There must be something we can do! Of course, current R.Ph.s would be welcome to join our cause!
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What school you go to?
 
PharmD2Be48 said:
No I wouldn't and I demonstrated that. Did you read my first post? I suggested ALL students and pharmacists bind together and with sheer man power, try to do something about the problem. I would never tell someone to drop out of school. That is just selfish and surely not the trait that a pharmacist should have.
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You're suggesting we decrease enrollment in a nutshell. Quite frankly we cant remove practicing pharmacists today. But we can try to decrease the output of new pharmacists.

Lets ask 40% of the students to voluntarily withdraw from the schools and ask the schools to voluntarily decrease enrollment.

You with me?

Why don't you lead by example and be the first to give up your spot?
 
I am not asking anyone to give up their spot. I am suggesting that class sizes be diminished for future entering classes. Lets be honest, many of the people accepted at pharm school are only there because the class sizes are so big. And heck, if I would have never been accepted due to smaller class sizes, so be it.
 
We could make the NAPLEX insanely hard to pass by simply 'adjusting' the scoring so that something like 50% of people fail. Imagine that, going through 6+ years of schooling, racking up $150k in non-dischargeable student loans and then not being able to get licensed for the job. 😱 Yep that would take care of the saturation nicely, and we would have better pharmacists as well.
 
Trying to convince new schools to NOT open and to convince existing schools to reduce class sizes is futile. They will keep taking students as long as students sign up and pay the tuition. The education industry always booms in bad economies because people are looking to improve their chances of a good job and high income. Eventually, market forces will correct, but there is no way to predict how long that will be.
 
Getting accepted to pharmacy school used to mean something. Now the market is saturated and new grads can't even get 40 hours a week and owe 250 k in student loans.
 
Hey, they need to open more schools so the people who already graduated can get jobs, as professors at these schools. I already got 3 faculty PPS interviews, 2 at newer schools and 1 at a school with an expanded program. Keep 'em coming.
 
PharmD2Be48 said:
I am not asking anyone to give up their spot. I am suggesting that class sizes be diminished for future entering classes. Lets be honest, many of the people accepted at pharm school are only there because the class sizes are so big. And heck, if I would have never been accepted due to smaller class sizes, so be it.
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Oh I see....now that you're in you want the future classes to be smaller.... that's awesome.
 
bacillus1 said:
Hey, they need to open more schools so the people who already graduated can get jobs, as professors at these schools. I already got 3 faculty PPS interviews, 2 at newer schools and 1 at a school with an expanded program. Keep 'em coming.
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You need a PhD to be a professor....I rather die than get that.
 
SHC1984 said:
Really? Will they hire me? I need a job to pay off my credit cards!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well, I'm doing a PGY1. Most established programs require a PGY2 for many positions, but I don't want to do one of those. I'll let you know if my PGY1 actually gets me a faculty job. What I really want to do is am care, but there was only 1 am care job on PPS that didn't require a PGY2, and they haven't gotten back to me yet. So, I figured I'd try for am care faculty positions. My residency is 5 months of outpatient rotations along with a teaching certificate, so I'll see if newer schools deem that sufficient.
 
PharmD2Be48 said:
No I wouldn't and I demonstrated that. Did you read my first post? I suggested ALL students and pharmacists bind together and with sheer man power, try to do something about the problem. I would never tell someone to drop out of school. That is just selfish and surely not the trait that a pharmacist should have.
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Remember this, I'll have no school loans when you get out of school and 10 years more experience and I'll be willing to work for >25% less than you.
 
The schools can require a 4 year degree or higher. That would diminish some of the applicant pool.
 
Instead of hiring people who had to do an intensive thesis and suffer the rigors of graduate education for 3-4 years, pharmacy schools settle for people that worked for 66% off for a year or two at a hospital somewhere.

Hence, most pharmacy education boils down to people standing in front of you reading power points.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Instead of hiring people who had to do an intensive thesis and suffer the rigors of graduate education for 3-4 years, pharmacy schools settle for people that worked for 66% off for a year or two at a hospital somewhere.

Hence, most pharmacy education boils down to people standing in front of you reading power points.
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:meanie:

I made a promise to myself that I would never read off power points. Biggest waste of students' time ever.
 
bacillus1 said:
Well, I'm doing a PGY1. Most established programs require a PGY2 for many positions, but I don't want to do one of those. I'll let you know if my PGY1 actually gets me a faculty job. What I really want to do is am care, but there was only 1 am care job on PPS that didn't require a PGY2, and they haven't gotten back to me yet. So, I figured I'd try for am care faculty positions. My residency is 5 months of outpatient rotations along with a teaching certificate, so I'll see if newer schools deem that sufficient.
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The P4 student I am on rotations with LOVE am care too! So far everyone that has any experience with it loves it! It must be a very good position. No wonder it's so competitive!

Must be stress free huh? lol
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Instead of hiring people who had to do an intensive thesis and suffer the rigors of graduate education for 3-4 years, pharmacy schools settle for people that worked for 66% off for a year or two at a hospital somewhere.

Hence, most pharmacy education boils down to people standing in front of you reading power points.
Click to expand...

Chebs attend USCF and she said her school never make people read off power points...I wonder how USCF teach their students...must be totally different!
 
SHC1984 said:
Chebs attend USCF and she said her school never make people read off power points...I wonder how USCF teach their students...must be totally different!
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They probably make them read the powerpoints and books the day before class, and during class they discuss the topic. Some of the professors tried that at my school but I found it ineffective.
 
SHC1984 said:
Chebs attend USCF and she said her school never make people read off power points...I wonder how USCF teach their students...must be totally different!
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They probably make them write **** down as they lecture. Which is pretty much the same thing as powerpoints, just less convenient. Doing this would be even more of a waste of time.

I had one teacher who used Socratic method. Only classes I got something out of. Dude's tests were open notes and open internet and you were still lucky to get a 70% on then. But it was actually worthwhile. He challenged you, directly. And he picked on me, too. He got his prescriptions at my pharmacy and knew me already.

What they need to do is expect you to read the basic **** yourself rather than "lecture" it to you. Then during class, you have intensive, in depth discussion about the material using Socratic teaching methods. If a school actually did that, they would produce the best pharmacists in the world.
 
rxlea said:
:meanie:

I made a promise to myself that I would never read off power points. Biggest waste of students' time ever.
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I never read off PowerPoints. And it's in the syllabus that students need to come to class because material that is discussed in class is fair game for the exam. And while there is a significant portion of the class that is lecture, over 1/3 is case based discussion and Q&A. All of that is fair game for exams. I've had to explain to my students that the hierarchy for exams is #1 material presented and discussed in class, because it's more up to date than the textbook and #2 the textbook. Some of them complain "but it wasn't on the slides." Some of them scour the internet for sources that conflict with #1 and #2, although what they usually come up with is either wrong or beyond the score of the course. It's frustrating at times. You simply can't please anyone.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
I meant to say everyone! But I often feel like I can't please anyone. What's wrong? 🙁
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LOL, Nothing today, I got like 16 hours of sleep in the last 24 hours and I feel GREAT! My crazy schedule was starting to catch up to me for sure. I wish I was being more productive today, but I got some of my reading for rotation done and am otherwise getting stuff done. 👍

Gonna hit the gym sometime in the next hour I think, I haven't lost any weight (unless losing negative amounts of weight counts), but I have started being able to do more at the gym (more weight, more reps, more cardio), so I guess that's progress? :xf:
 
SHC1984 said:
The P4 student I am on rotations with LOVE am care too! So far everyone that has any experience with it loves it! It must be a very good position. No wonder it's so competitive!

Must be stress free huh? lol
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It's competitive because places can hire PAs or NPs to do close to the same thing and pay them less. Of course we're the drug experts and all, but hospitals and other entities usually just settle for other health professionals that get the job done worse but are cheaper to hire.
 
bacillus1 said:
It's competitive because places can hire PAs or NPs to do close to the same thing and pay them less. Of course we're the drug experts and all, but hospitals and other entities usually just settle for other health professionals that get the job done worse but are cheaper to hire.
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I think you mean RNs, not NPs or PAs since they are paid about the same as us.
 
Sparda29 said:
I think you mean RNs, not NPs or PAs since they are paid about the same as us.
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RNs can't properly do MTM IMO unless they're highly specialized, and in my experience the stuff that am care pharmacists would do usually does get handled by NPs and PAs. I believe they get paid about 10-15k less than us.
 
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I've had some discussions in our APhA-ASP chapter but it doesn't seem like anything could really be done by us students.. it is all in ACPE's hands who they grant accreditation to.
 
Sparda29 said:
They probably make them read the powerpoints and books the day before class, and during class they discuss the topic. Some of the professors tried that at my school but I found it ineffective.
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This only works when students do the readings AHEAD OF TIME.

It is ineffective because few students do the readings AHEAD OF TIME.

While your individual results may vary, this is not unique to Sparda's school.
 
PharmD2Be48 said:
No I wouldn't and I demonstrated that. Did you read my first post? I suggested ALL students and pharmacists bind together and with sheer man power, try to do something about the problem. I would never tell someone to drop out of school. That is just selfish and surely not the trait that a pharmacist should have.
Click to expand...


What kind of thread is this? Barney for pharmacists? I love you you love me?
 
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