Can You Claim GI Bill Benefits During Residency

[The Red Pill]

Does anyone know if retired military can get GI Bill benefits (specifically BAH) during residency training? I am retired military. I have completed paperwork and qualified for the Post 9/11 GI Bill. I contacted the Va Dept of Ed to ask if I could get GI Bill benefits (specifically BAH) during residency training. The representative seemed confused but ultimately said I had to be enrolled in an Institute of Higher Learning. I explained that I was not in school, but in residency training. Does anyone on here know definitively if retired military are able to claim benefits during residency training?

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[BubblesnBugsDoc]

It is not a mythical concept. The problem is like most people in positions where they are "in charge" of programs and also like most medical education tracks, the ignorance is painful with respect to them. You have to educate the folks about med school, residency and basically pretend you ae telling your grandmother what you did to become a doctor. They are used to people aksing about welding school etc.

I have friends who are doing it. The residency program you are in has to get recognized and set up. It helps if it is a "Univ of..." residency. Once they get the paperwork etc, it apparently will pay for up to 3 years.

Once you get in, the deal is BAH E-5 with, for your area. Pull up the BAH table and pnch in the zip etc...you know the deal. There is also a book expense thing but I don't know if that part works. Like you said, its the BAH that helps.

Hope this helps as I am not the expert yet.

 

[backrow]

It is my understanding that with the advent of the Post-9/11 GI Bill they took out the provision that would allow it to be used during Residency. With the Pre-9/11 bill you could use the benefits to get some extra bennies.

You may have hosed yourself by electing the new GI Bill.

BTW how old are you? Minimum would be 41 in my calculation....crazy to be starting residency at that age....ouch!

 

[BubblesnBugsDoc]

It is my understanding that with the advent of the Post-9/11 GI Bill they took out the provision that would allow it to be used during Residency. With the Pre-9/11 bill you could use the benefits to get some extra bennies.

You may have hosed yourself by electing the new GI Bill.

BTW how old are you? Minimum would be 41 in my calculation....crazy to be starting residency at that age....ouch!

I think that "your understanding" is why we are having this discussion. We are all left to "understand" it because they didn't specifically say "No" but also failed to address the residency thing specifically. I am hoping that ACGME meets the marks for an Institution of Higher Learning.

MY understanding (drumroll) is that GME is "working towards a certification or qualification" and that this answers the mail...

Ambiguity can be good or bad. I am hoping for the former. If you have specific gouge, I am all ears too. Like most folks, I got talked into the Jim Jones-style group signing away of benefits.

 

[AF M4]

Does anyone know if retired military can get GI Bill benefits (specifically BAH) during residency training? I am retired military. I have completed paperwork and qualified for the Post 9/11 GI Bill. I contacted the Va Dept of Ed to ask if I could get GI Bill benefits (specifically BAH) during residency training. The representative seemed confused but ultimately said I had to be enrolled in an Institute of Higher Learning. I explained that I was not in school, but in residency training. Does anyone on here know definitively if retired military are able to claim benefits during residency training?

Please check the Info for New Accessions - GI Bill sticky at the top of the page. Some good info there.

Short answer - yes you can use it. As Bubbles mentioned, residency is work towards a certification/qualification and you get at least 3 years for Montgomery GI.

As I understand it - and please other folks who have gone through this help me here - is that you are going to be telling the VA folks a lot of what they're supposed to do, because there's no super-specific regulation saying that residencies are definitively covered. You simply say that it falls under institution of higher learning and that you're working towards a cert/qual and those are the magic words next to the magic box on a computerized administrative form somewhere. Asking the typical VA tech to figure all this out for you will only result in confusion and delay, so go in telling them what they should be doing and things will work out.

 

[i want out]

Please check the Info for New Accessions - GI Bill sticky at the top of the page. Some good info there.

Short answer - yes you can use it. As Bubbles mentioned, residency is work towards a certification/qualification and you get at least 3 years for Montgomery GI.

As I understand it - and please other folks who have gone through this help me here - is that you are going to be telling the VA folks a lot of what they're supposed to do, because there's no super-specific regulation saying that residencies are definitively covered. You simply say that it falls under institution of higher learning and that you're working towards a cert/qual and those are the magic words next to the magic box on a computerized administrative form somewhere. Asking the typical VA tech to figure all this out for you will only result in confusion and delay, so go in telling them what they should be doing and things will work out.

AFM4 is right on the money on this one, don't bother trying to make the VA folks understand, they don't want to and you can't make them. Just give them the information to be able to fill in the correct boxes and get you on your way to getting the benefits.

I speak from personal experience, as I have been getting the GI bill during residency.

i want out (of IRR)

 

[backrow]

I speak from personal experience, as I have been getting the GI bill during residency.

Are you using Post 9/11 GI Bill or Montgomery GI Bill?

 

[backrow]

Short answer - yes you can use it. As Bubbles mentioned, residency is work towards a certification/qualification and you get at least 3 years for Montgomery GI.

You missed this part of his initial post:

I have completed paperwork and qualified for the Post 9/11 GI Bill.

I double checked on the VA website and Cert/Licensure is not covered under the new GI Bill. Also for those angling for the Institute of Higher Learning area well this little part will probably get in the way with the 9/11 Bill "For the Post-9/11 GI Bill, the tuition & fees are paid directly to the school,". (direct from VA website). I'm still not clear on the ability to get the book stipend and BAH from that though.

 

[akoman]

https://www.gibill2.va.gov/cgi-bin/vba.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=967

 

[AF M4]

https://www.gibill2.va.gov/cgi-bin/vba.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=967

Nicely done.

 

[sethco]

This is discussed extensively in the stickies.

Please note that although you can use the post-9/11 GI bill, you can only get the BAH portion. This is because they pay the tuition directly to the institution, unlike the old GI bill where they cut you a check and it is up to you to put it towards tuition. Now for some people, it might be more beneficial to get the new GI Bill for residency (i.e. People doing residency in Boston/NYC/SF/LA/SD or other high cost areas), however most people would be better off using the Montgomery GI bill with the kicker.

Another thing to factor into the decision about which bill to use is the fact that if you use all 36 months of Montgomery GI Bill benefits FIRST, you are then eligible for an additional 12 months of the post-9/11 GI Bill. This does not work the other way around and it must be done in that order. As an example, I will be starting my PGY-2 year this July and will be using the Montgomery GI Bill for the duration of residency (3 more years). If I choose to go into a 1 year fellowship, I will then be able to use the post-9/11 GI Bill for the 12 months of fellowship.

Yet, the absolute best deal (IMHO) is if you have 10 years of ACTIVE service (and no, HPSP ADTs do not count), you can pass your benefits onto your dependents. Technically, you need at least 6 years and agree to serve 4 more years of active service. I already asked whether Inactivated Guard or Reserve status counts, and it does not.

AFM4, I would not say the process is difficult. I would call it more arduous and time consuming. There are lots of steps to the process and some of the steps do not involve the applicant but they still need to stay on top of it to make sure it gets done. If somebody knows where they are going and know they want to use the VA benefits, they should (IMHO) start the process at least 18 months in advance to starting.

 

[pgg]

Yet, the absolute best deal (IMHO) is if you have 10 years of ACTIVE service (and no, HPSP ADTs do not count), you can pass your benefits onto your dependents. Technically, you need at least 6 years and agree to serve 4 more years of active service. I already asked whether Inactivated Guard or Reserve status counts, and it does not.

Did they ever decide if time spent on AD repaying a service obligation (eg, from HPSP, USUHS, or an inservice residency) counts toward that 4 years?

Every time we collect ASP or ISP, we're agreeing to serve 1 more year on active duty, although it doesn't extend our obligated service beyond med school / residency commitments. It's still not clear to me whether or not one would have to sign up for 4 years after residency payback in order to pass on the benefits to family members.

 

[sethco]

Did they ever decide if time spent on AD repaying a service obligation (eg, from HPSP, USUHS, or an inservice residency) counts toward that 4 years?

Every time we collect ASP or ISP, we're agreeing to serve 1 more year on active duty, although it doesn't extend our obligated service beyond med school / residency commitments. It's still not clear to me whether or not one would have to sign up for 4 years after residency payback in order to pass on the benefits to family members.

Yes and No. Yes, HPSP time counts towards the 10 years, but No only the time spent on active duty during HPSP counts (i.e. 45 days/year during the 4 years of HPSP). So, out of those 4 years, we only get credit for 6 months towards the 10 year requirement! Did not ask about USUHS grads, but it should be considered active duty while in med school, right?

The best situation would be if one was chosen for a military residency (at least 5 years long), then after the 1st year of their utilization tour after residency, they commit to 4 more years. Remember, the HPSP time is paid back during residency and a brand new commitment is born from the time spent in residency. I don't think there are any stipulations for other commitments (i.e. HPSP, USUHS, ROTC, Residency, etc.), but I could be wrong as I quickly lost interest when I was told that the years must be active service (not reserve or guard, unless activated).

 

[pgg]

Yes and No. Yes, HPSP time counts towards the 10 years, but No only the time spent on active duty during HPSP counts (i.e. 45 days/year during the 4 years of HPSP). So, out of those 4 years, we only get credit for 6 months towards the 10 year requirement! Did not ask about USUHS grads, but it should be considered active duty while in med school, right?

The best situation would be if one was chosen for a military residency (at least 5 years long), then after the 1st year of their utilization tour after residency, they commit to 4 more years. Remember, the HPSP time is paid back during residency and a brand new commitment is born from the time spent in residency. I don't think there are any stipulations for other commitments (i.e. HPSP, USUHS, ROTC, Residency, etc.), but I could be wrong as I quickly lost interest when I was told that the years must be active service (not reserve or guard, unless activated).

Hmmm ... I don't know why they can't be more clear about this. I've got >10years on active duty already if you add up USUHS, GMO, and residency.

Finished residency 2009. USUHS/residency concurrent payback is up in 2014. Seems like I should be able to get out then and pass the benefits on to kid #1 who'll be starting college that year. But it's still not clear to me if my active duty payback time counts toward that 4 year requirement, or if I'd have to extend through 2018 to be eligible.

 

[AF M4]

Hmmm ... I don't know why they can't be more clear about this. I've got >10years on active duty already if you add up USUHS, GMO, and residency.

Finished residency 2009. USUHS/residency concurrent payback is up in 2014. Seems like I should be able to get out then and pass the benefits on to kid #1 who'll be starting college that year. But it's still not clear to me if my active duty payback time counts toward that 4 year requirement, or if I'd have to extend through 2018 to be eligible.

This is going to freak people out, but here goes....

Most gov't agencies, including the .mil and the VA, are 95% populated by people who have no idea what they're doing. One of my poor medics just spent the past 3 days running around the med group trying to get some overseas transfer stuff filled out, and an every department where he asked a question he was met with a 22 year old airman, a blank gaping stare, and an "um, you need to go take that to XYZ department instead." XYZ dept then sent him back to ABC dept which sent him back to DEF then XYZ again...you get the picture.

He's pulling his hair out when he finally mentions it to me. I make one phone call to one smart person and within the hour the entire matter is settled.

The lesson is: do NOT go asking government employees what you should do or what happens in such and such a situation. Instead, google the regulation, AFI, bill, or whatever. Then go in there and TELL them how it should be while behaving like everything is completely normal. OF COURSE it's supposed to be like that, is the impression you want them to have. 95 times out of 100, the person you are talking to has never read or heard of the regulation that governs the job they are supposedly doing (this is their big secret!) and will do what you say in order to avoid having to admit they're clueless. Take advantage of this, use it to get what you want done how you want it done, and if someone comes back later on and tries to reverse the decision, that's when you turn on the righteous indignation and complain so loudly that eventually they either let you keep what you got or give you something equally valuable instead.

So in your situation, tell the VA techs what you want them to do: simply hand them your original orders to report to active duty (which happened to be to USHUS, but that won't even register - they're just seeing that you got the right form and the start date; they couldn't care less where you were actually assigned). Don't even mention the whole USHUS/residency payback magilla; just say you were on active duty the entire time (true!) and leave it at that. I'm betting they'll stamp it approved without batting an eyelash.

 

[sethco]

Hmmm ... I don't know why they can't be more clear about this. I've got >10years on active duty already if you add up USUHS, GMO, and residency.

Finished residency 2009. USUHS/residency concurrent payback is up in 2014. Seems like I should be able to get out then and pass the benefits on to kid #1 who'll be starting college that year. But it's still not clear to me if my active duty payback time counts toward that 4 year requirement, or if I'd have to extend through 2018 to be eligible.

Here are the new regs for the post-9/11 GI Bill...

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...0090331:1.106;idno=38;cc=ecfr;start=1;size=25

Unfortunately, I think the only way you will find if you are eligible is to go ahead and apply for transfer of benefits.

 

[sethco]

So in your situation, tell the VA techs what you want them to do: simply hand them your original orders to report to active duty (which happened to be to USHUS, but that won't even register - they're just seeing that you got the right form and the start date; they couldn't care less where you were actually assigned). Don't even mention the whole USHUS/residency payback magilla; just say you were on active duty the entire time (true!) and leave it at that. I'm betting they'll stamp it approved without batting an eyelash.

Agree with above

 

[i want out]

The lesson is: do NOT go asking government employees what you should do or what happens in such and such a situation. Instead, google the regulation, AFI, bill, or whatever. Then go in there and TELL them how it should be while behaving like everything is completely normal. OF COURSE it's supposed to be like that, is the impression you want them to have. 95 times out of 100, the person you are talking to has never read or heard of the regulation that governs the job they are supposedly doing (this is their big secret!) and will do what you say in order to avoid having to admit they're clueless. Take advantage of this, use it to get what you want done how you want it done, and if someone comes back later on and tries to reverse the decision, that's when you turn on the righteous indignation and complain so loudly that eventually they either let you keep what you got or give you something equally valuable instead.

So in your situation, tell the VA techs what you want them to do: simply hand them your original orders to report to active duty (which happened to be to USHUS, but that won't even register - they're just seeing that you got the right form and the start date; they couldn't care less where you were actually assigned). Don't even mention the whole USHUS/residency payback magilla; just say you were on active duty the entire time (true!) and leave it at that. I'm betting they'll stamp it approved without batting an eyelash.

Ditto this...

I am getting the Montgomery GI bill not the post 9/11.

i want out(of IRR)

 

[Gastrapathy]

Hmmm ... I don't know why they can't be more clear about this. I've got >10years on active duty already if you add up USUHS, GMO, and residency.

Finished residency 2009. USUHS/residency concurrent payback is up in 2014. Seems like I should be able to get out then and pass the benefits on to kid #1 who'll be starting college that year. But it's still not clear to me if my active duty payback time counts toward that 4 year requirement, or if I'd have to extend through 2018 to be eligible.

Try transferring benefits now. If they let you, then you're golden.
Then let the rest of us know

 

[Yellowstone]

In order to transfer benefits, whether or not you are in payback for HPSP, USUHS, residency, fellowship, ASP/ISP/MSP, etc. - it does not matter as long as you have at least 6 years of active duty service, and then agree to serve an additional 4 years from the date you apply to transfer benefits. So, as of today, if you have at least 6 years active duty and are obligated or intend to do another 4 years, get over to CSD/PSD, and get them to do a Page 13 entry for you. (Below is all related to Navy officers, not sure about the other services, but the basic rules should be the same).

Bring a copy of NAVADMIN 203/09 since most people will not know what you are talking about. http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/EFC4BB71-A27E-40D9-B129-1689BD6E1877/0/NAV09203.txt.
This document has everything you need to know, particularly below:

7. ALL OFFICERS, OTHER THAN THOSE IN CATEGORIES LISTED IN PART I PARAS
3C, AND SELRES ENLISTED MEMBERS: THE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER WILL
COMPLETE A PAGE 13 IN THE NAVY STANDARD INTEGRATED PERSONNEL SYSTEM
(NSIPS) ESR AGREEING TO SERVE THE REQUIRED ADDITIONAL YEARS OF SERVICE.
PAGE 13 WILL READ: "I UNDERSTAND BY SIGNING THIS PAGE 13, I AGREE TO
COMPLETE FOUR MORE YEARS IN THE ARMED FORCES (ACTIVE OR SELECTED
RESERVE) FROM THE DATE I REQUEST TRANSFERABILITY OF POST 9-11, REAP OR
MGIB-SR EDUCATION BENEFITS TO MY DEPENDENTS/FAMILY MEMBERS. I
UNDERSTAND THAT FAILURE TO COMPLETE THIS FOUR YEAR OBLIGATION MAY LEAD
TO AN OVERPAYMENT BY THE DEPARTMENT OF VETERAN'S AFFAIRS THAT MAY BE
RECOUPED FOR ANY PAYMENTS MADE TO DEPENDENTS/ FAMILY MEMBERS." THE
PAGE 13 WILL BE SIGNED BY MEMBER, WITNESSED AND DATED.

I just recently did this and had no problems once I figured out the process. It was updated in my ESR the next day. Previously, I had tried to apply for transferability, but was denied until I had the page 13 entry done at PSD and entered into my electronic service record. You can see your ESR at https://nsips.nmci.navy.mil. It has to be done at a DoD computer. If you haven't seen your ESR it's definitely worth signing in and checking out.

Then, go to http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2009/0409_gibill/. Go to the 'transferability application' on the right side and log in with either your CAC card or myPay data. Your dependents in DEERS should show up. It's easy from here. Click the buttons as appropriate and submit. As long as your page 13 update is in your ESR, you should be golden. You might want to give all of your dependents at least one month, because after you are out of the service, you can no longer add any additional dependents. As long as you are on active duty you can add or delete dependents, from what I understand. You get 36 months to divvy up, but which dependent gets how many months isn't final until well down the road.

Serve four more years, and then navigate the VA system for when you actually want to have your dependents use your benefits (I haven't looked into this yet).

Best of luck.

 

[pgg]

Yellowstone, you're my hero.

 

[pgg]

I followed Yellowstone's instructions and as of yesterday my 9/11 GI Bill has transferred to my kids.


I signed the page 13 entry on May 3rd 2010. PSD was slow but eventually my ESR was updated and a few days later the transfer was marked approved. My obligated service runs through May 18th 2014 so I got it done just under the wire - benefits transferred with no effective extension in service.