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Can you help? Need ITE percentile tables for 2002 & 2003

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sandlynx

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Hi, I guess I'm seeking the "experienced" folks here (meaning, getting old...) ;)

:help:

Even at my advanced age, I'm looking to doing a fellowship. This means digging out old records, some of which I never thought I'd need again. ITE scores? I thought the point of the ITE was to help evaluate if you would pass the Boards. Which I did, many years ago. But, no, the fellowship application requires the ITE scores AND the percentile tables. Well, I got the score reports from my residency program, but it didn't come with the norm tables.

So, I'm wondering if anyone out there who in residency in 2002 and 2003 still can lay hands on the norm tables for the ITEs from 2002 & 2003. These are the tables listing the percentile ranks for the 2-digit scores for CA-1, CA-2 & CA-3. If you do, you are way more organized than I am. Well, actually I do have a folder with all my other exam scores in it, but for some reason the ITE and ABA exam scores are missing... :smack:

If you do have these tables, and can post a copy of them or PM me with them, I will be incredibly grateful.

I will ask the ABA if they have this data, but they can be slow to respond. Thank you to anyone who looks to see if they can help!
 

Turtlez

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Hi, I guess I'm seeking the "experienced" folks here (meaning, getting old...) ;)

:help:

Even at my advanced age, I'm looking to doing a fellowship. This means digging out old records, some of which I never thought I'd need again. ITE scores? I thought the point of the ITE was to help evaluate if you would pass the Boards. Which I did, many years ago. But, no, the fellowship application requires the ITE scores AND the percentile tables. Well, I got the score reports from my residency program, but it didn't come with the norm tables.

So, I'm wondering if anyone out there who in residency in 2002 and 2003 still can lay hands on the norm tables for the ITEs from 2002 & 2003. These are the tables listing the percentile ranks for the 2-digit scores for CA-1, CA-2 & CA-3. If you do, you are way more organized than I am. Well, actually I do have a folder with all my other exam scores in it, but for some reason the ITE and ABA exam scores are missing... :smack:

If you do have these tables, and can post a copy of them or PM me with them, I will be incredibly grateful.

I will ask the ABA if they have this data, but they can be slow to respond. Thank you to anyone who looks to see if they can help!

Why fellowship?
 

Man o War

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Hi, I guess I'm seeking the "experienced" folks here (meaning, getting old...) ;)

:help:

Even at my advanced age, I'm looking to doing a fellowship. This means digging out old records, some of which I never thought I'd need again. ITE scores? I thought the point of the ITE was to help evaluate if you would pass the Boards. Which I did, many years ago. But, no, the fellowship application requires the ITE scores AND the percentile tables. Well, I got the score reports from my residency program, but it didn't come with the norm tables.

So, I'm wondering if anyone out there who in residency in 2002 and 2003 still can lay hands on the norm tables for the ITEs from 2002 & 2003. These are the tables listing the percentile ranks for the 2-digit scores for CA-1, CA-2 & CA-3. If you do, you are way more organized than I am. Well, actually I do have a folder with all my other exam scores in it, but for some reason the ITE and ABA exam scores are missing... :smack:

If you do have these tables, and can post a copy of them or PM me with them, I will be incredibly grateful.

I will ask the ABA if they have this data, but they can be slow to respond. Thank you to anyone who looks to see if they can help!

I don't have what you need,but wanted to tell you good luck. I went back and forth on whether I could/should go back to fellowship as a more, ahem, mature candidate after many years out of the training mindset. So glad I did it, and it was really a great year for me. I actually enjoyed it.
 
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pgg

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I don't have what you need,but wanted to tell you good luck. I went back and forth on whether I could/should go back to fellowship as a more, ahem, mature candidate after many years out of the training mindset. So glad I did it, and it was really a great year for me. I actually enjoyed it.
Agree

I still have a few months to go, but it's been a great year.
 
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Skribbles

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I don't have what you need,but wanted to tell you good luck. I went back and forth on whether I could/should go back to fellowship as a more, ahem, mature candidate after many years out of the training mindset. So glad I did it, and it was really a great year for me. I actually enjoyed it.

Just curious, but which fellowship was enticing enough to take a pay cut for a year to retrain?
 

sandlynx

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They will dig up and send you transcripts of your written exam and ITEs. Easy.

Thanks. Do you know this from personal experience. If so, it's great news, because I still need a copy of my ABA written exam score report. And what about the norm tables, which aren't part of the score reports?
 

sandlynx

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I don't have what you need,but wanted to tell you good luck. I went back and forth on whether I could/should go back to fellowship as a more, ahem, mature candidate after many years out of the training mindset. So glad I did it, and it was really a great year for me. I actually enjoyed it.

Thanks for the encouragement; it means a lot!
 

pgg

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Thanks. Do you know this from personal experience. If so, it's great news, because I still need a copy of my ABA written exam score report. And what about the norm tables, which aren't part of the score reports?
Yes I got my transcripts from them a few years ago when applying to fellowship.

Written exam has a mean/std decide reported on it, no norm tables.

Now that I think about it, I don't believe I got norm tables with my ITE reports. But I br they would provide them if asked.
 
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Man o War

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Do you mind explaining your reasoning? Thanks!

I wanted options. I was doing some hearts in PP, and did a 6 month focus on them in residency, but when I started looking to change jobs I learned that the groups I wanted to join had started to require advanced TEE cert for docs doing hearts. I was locked out without going back. Hospitals are starting to require it in many of the places I looked at working. Some of these groups had been told that their docs who had been doing hearts for many years there no longer could since they never got the cert.
They were offering great packages and shorter/less painful partnership tracks for their cardiac docs. And, I didn't have to supervise CRNAs either at all or at a greatly reduced rate. I ended up with a group that has no CRNAs and it's so much better for me personally, I'll never go back.
Plus I just really enjoy doing these cases.
Thank god I married an understanding, go with the flow woman. That year was rough on her.
@pgg did the same, so could also give you some insight.
 
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pgg

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@pgg did the same, so could also give you some insight.

I enjoyed cardiac the most of everything as a resident, and had been planning on fellowship for a while. I actually graduated in 2009, which left the practice pathway to full TEE certification open ... but as a generalist I just couldn't hope to get the cases and TEE numbers to meet that requirement. So fellowship was the only realistic way for me to achieve certification.

And after a few years of not doing cardiac as an attending, and getting dumber every day that passed after I walked out of my oral boards ... the more pertinent truth was that I really felt the need to do a fellowship just to acquire the skill and knowledge I thought I would need to be comfortable and safe doing those cases.

Don't get me wrong, I could've gotten credentialed and done hearts any time in the 7 years I was out between residency and fellowship. Lots of non-fellowship-trained people do hearts. I just wanted a better foundation to someday achieve indisputable mastery of it all. Right now, being 3/4 of the way through fellowship, I'm glad I came back for training. When I'm done, I'll still have a lot to learn and improve, but at this point I can't imagine doing these cases without this foundation year.


My circumstances are a little different than most who return late to fellowship. I'm still in the military, paying off a lengthy commitment, inching toward retirement eligibility.

The Navy agreed (eventually, after I asked a few times, but that's another story) to let me leave for a year to be a CT anesthesia fellow at a civilian institution. The fellowship program got me free for the year, which opened some doors to my late and outside-the-match application. The Navy is still paying me my normal paycheck - while that's somewhat sub-market in the grand scheme of things, it's still quite a bit more than usual fellow pay, so notable point #1 is that I didn't have to take much of a pay cut to go back to fellowship. (I can't moonlight as a fellow, so there's an indirect pay cut there.)

I didn't have to leave a partnership track or partnership position and take that pay/career hit.

I also continue to accrue military retirement credit during my fellowship year, so in the end, heading back to fellowship doesn't alter either my military service commitment length, or change the day I can retire from the Navy, start collecting all that delicious government pension cheese, and then head out to the private practice world to be a well-paid partner in control of my destiny, an AMC slave taking orders from some MBA-dropout CRNA, an academic, or something else.

I had an active duty service obligation after finishing residency, and at the time the Navy did not perceive a need to train additional CT anesthesiologists, and they chose to use me as a generalist rather than let me go directly to fellowship. It took a few years before retirements and other issues convinced the Navy that they needed to train more, so notable point #2 is that I wasn't allowed to go to fellowship as soon as I wanted to.

Notable point #3 is that leaving for fellowship got me out of the Navy for a year. I've been pretty happy in the Navy, for the most part, but I'd be lying if I said that the prospect of a year's sabbatical from the various pains and inanities of government service wasn't a perk.

It's been good having a year of no responsibilities, except to focus on my own cases and learning. No committees, no meetings, no directing, no schedule making, no people coming to me with their problems. The hours in fellowship are long, but honestly, all I do is wake up in the morning, go to the hospital, do some cases, get ready for tomorrow's cases, go home, read a bit, rinse, repeat. Sprinkle in some academic events here and there. It's a nice life.

Fellowship is ... awesome. I temper my enthusiasm a little at the hospital, since the tendency is to believe that any trainee who says he's happy is FOS, and I've kind of gotten tired of convincing skeptical people that yes, I really am happy to be here.

So given all that context, going back to fellowship is perhaps the biggest no-brainer of my professional life. The only reason I didn't do it sooner, is because the Navy wouldn't let me do it sooner.


Down sides? Few.

Every once in a while, mostly when finishing up a lung transplant at 4 AM, I do find myself asking ... Did I really walk away from my cushy staff job to be flogged like this? The total hours aren't bad, but it's a grind. I'm tired a lot. Call was easier when I was an intern 14 years ago. (I had a 3 year gap between PGY-1 and CA-1 courtesy of the Navy.)

I have kids in high school, including a senior, and didn't want to move them for the year. So I got an apartment across the street from the hospital and am living away from home for the year. Fellowship is about 3 hours away from home. I get home most weekends (my weekend call burden is very light). It still sucks for me and my family to be apart during the week. But again ... context. A year of fellowship with weekend visits is better than 7 months in Afghanistan or Iraq. And we did that. 3 times.


Thank god I married an understanding, go with the flow woman. That year was rough on her.

True words.
 
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sandlynx

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Yes I got my transcripts from them a few years ago when applying to fellowship.

Written exam has a mean/std decide reported on it, no norm tables.

Now that I think about it, I don't believe I got norm tables with my ITE reports. But I br they would provide them if asked.

Thanks. I've asked ABA for ITE norm reports specifically, so we'll see.
 

sandlynx

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Yes I got my transcripts from them a few years ago when applying to fellowship.

Written exam has a mean/std decide reported on it, no norm tables.

Now that I think about it, I don't believe I got norm tables with my ITE reports. But I br they would provide them if asked.

How long did they take to get your transcripts to you, do you recall?
Thanks.
 

sandlynx

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Days? A week? Don't really remember but it was not long at all.

Hmm. Thanks. Been a week since my first inquiry (thru their webmail). I sent a new message to the direct email on Monday. No response yet. The webmail reader replied that she'd forwarded my request to the "Examination Department," so I guess the request probably didn't disappear into the void. I'm just impatient.
 

sandlynx

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When I applied I called all the PDs and asked them if they really wanted the ITE scores as I was already board certified. Most said they didn't need them.


--
Il Destriero

Yeah, that's what I expected, too. However, when I asked the program I am most interested in whether I could substitute my ABA Written Exam score for ITE scores, given that I am board certified, the reply was, no, the requirements are just that, requirements, and they absolutely need my ITE scores. Hence this wild goose chase.

I'm pretty sure that back when I got my board certification, I thought that no one would care about ITE scores again (after all, isn't the point of the ITE to predict whether you will pass the boards?). I guess they feel the need to compare applicants' ability on standardized tests.
 

pgg

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Yeah, that's what I expected, too. However, when I asked the program I am most interested in whether I could substitute my ABA Written Exam score for ITE scores, given that I am board certified, the reply was, no, the requirements are just that, requirements, and they absolutely need my ITE scores. Hence this wild goose chase.
That is pants-on-head, clown shoes ******ed.

Surely that reply came from a secretary / coordinator, not the PD? I.e. someone who's just collating papers for an application based on a checklist?

I guess just be glad they don't want your MOCA Minute p-score ... :-/
 

sandlynx

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That is pants-on-head, clown shoes ******ed.

Surely that reply came from a secretary / coordinator, not the PD? I.e. someone who's just collating papers for an application based on a checklist?

I guess just be glad they don't want your MOCA Minute p-score ... :-/

Hmm, yeah it was the secretary. But I'm a little concerned about going over her head to the PD, because that can make it seem like I'm trying to get away with something, especially after the secretary told me that I had to provide them. If the scores don't ever turn up though, I will ask the PD directly.

MOCA minute p-score wouldn't be so bad... annoying to have to do it at all, but at least I know it and it can't get any better than 1.0! Don't know why it thinks I'm so "up to date." Pretty bogus "exam". Maybe I'll print it out and send it to them... :p
 

sandlynx

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Follow-up in case anyone has a similar situation. The ABA emailed me my ITE score reports and ABA Written Exam score report today (after I kind of nagged them: I don't know if the 3rd email was what finally got a reply or if it had been in the works for the past 2 weeks anyway). However, they said that ITE Norm Tables are only sent to programs and not to individual "candidates". No exceptions, I guess...

I'm happy to say that the PD for the program I'm most interested in, said that the ABA Written Exam score report would suffice.

Thanks for the input, folks.

Of course, if anyone actually does have copies of the 2002 & 2003 (and 2001, too) ITE score Norm Tables, I would still like to have them. The scores themselves are pretty useless without the Norm Tables.
 
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