CASPER results

[DocJuan]

So I just took CASPER for 3 schools that I'm applying to, UIC, RWJMS, and Tulane. It was super easy and straightforward. I'm wondering how the Casper results appear to admissions committees. How do they assess your answers?

Is it used to assess candidacy at all? Or is it just a personality thing to get to know you a little better.?

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[wizzed101]

It's a new metric.

Flaws aside, since some of those schools will use it for the first time, they would probably just let everyone in and then see if the test correlates to anything at all down the road. If they screen people out in the year using it despite the older metric would've sufficed otherwise, they are full of ****.

 

[DocJuan]

It's a new metric.

Flaws aside, since some of those schools will use it for the first time, they would probably just let everyone in and then see if the test correlates to anything at all down the road. If they screen people out in the year using it despite the older metric would've sufficed otherwise, they are full of ****.

Thanks for the response! When you say "probably just let everyone in and then see if the test correlates to anything", are you referring to something that an admissions officer told you or is this just a best guess? I feel like the schools already know if it correlates to something. Otherwise why would they waste time requiring it? My suspicion is that they're past the experimental phase.

I know it's a new metric. My question is how is the metric used to the benefit or detriment of an application? I feel like there were right and wrong answers. I just want to confirm this suspicion.

 

[wizzed101]

That is the course of action, in my opinion, rational adcoms should adopt. It's new. It needs testing. It is used in Canada mostly in the school where it was developed (duh) and its affiliates. Even then 1 Canadian school stopped using it after just 1 year for "unknown reasons." In the States, it's new. If we just pass off w.e the Canucks do as legitimate, the MCAT would've only contained 1 section: CARS.

 

[DocJuan]

That is the course of action, in my opinion, rational adcoms should adopt. It's new. It needs testing. It is used in Canada mostly in the school where it was developed (duh) and its affiliates. Even then 1 Canadian school stopped using it after just 1 year for "unknown reasons." In the States, it's new. If we just pass off w.e the Canucks do as legitimate, the MCAT would've only contained 1 section: CARS.

Lol if CARS was the only section I would be applying to HMS. You're probably right though. I couldn't see them placing too much emphasis on it during these first few years.

Still wondering how the scoring works.

 

[doctorleospaceman]

CASPer is rubbish. MMIs are fine and all but CASPer is just a $10 words per minute test. All I can see it correlating with is time spent on SOAP notes.

 

[jsf0120]

i took it today also. My issues are these. One, an applicant will never be able to see his scores. OK, fine keep it confidential and no one will know how their score affects their success. The real issue is that NO independant evaluation or studies have been done on the scoring or how well it correlates with ANYTHING. Why not? It is a whole crock of ****.

 

[doctorleospaceman]

Anyone know any details of the scoring process? Seems like the amount of potential bias is unreal.

 

[Advisor Prep]

So I just took CASPER for 3 schools that I'm applying to, UIC, RWJMS, and Tulane. It was super easy and straightforward. I'm wondering how the Casper results appear to admissions committees. How do they assess your answers?

Is it used to assess candidacy at all? Or is it just a personality thing to get to know you a little better.?

We're glad to hear you left the test feeling confident (ie. you found it super easy/straight forward). One caveat to keep in mind with CASPer is that the test is anything but straightforward. An SJT that may "seem" straightforward, typically isn't.

Notice that on the official takecasper.com under the following FAQ, "Do I need to Study for the test?", the response is very vague, "The general literature suggests that situational judgment tests (SJTs) are relatively immune to test preparation, i.e. that coaching is unlikely to provide benefit." The general literature actually suggests that behavioral SJTs such as CASPer ARE susceptible to faking and coaching effects. With CASPer, applicants are generally left in the dark. With CASPer, applicants are not explicitly provided with a roadmap of the personal and professional characteristics assessed etc, and combined with the fact that applicants do not receive a score, it's easy to see why this test is different than other tests, that are more transparent.

CASPer answers are rated on a likert scale by raters (all done by people, not by a machine) and the results are used to rank your candidacy. If you rank poorly, it hurts your chances of moving on to the next stage in the process.

 

[PeruvianMD]

They say you shouldn't study for the test on their site... lies lol

 

[Advisor Prep]

i took it today also. My issues are these. One, an applicant will never be able to see his scores. OK, fine keep it confidential and no one will know how their score affects their success. The real issue is that NO independant evaluation or studies have been done on the scoring or how well it correlates with ANYTHING. Why not? It is a whole crock of ****.

This has been looked at. There are a number of papers that have examined the correlation between MMI and SJTs in the admissions process at various levels (ie. postgrad as well). CASPer has been developed since 2001 and has received lots of funding from the AAMC, NBME and RCPSC.

Procedural SJTs are very hard to fake/coach as they are based on knowledge, but behavioral SJTs such as CASPer are susceptible to faking/coaching effects.

 

[PeruvianMD]

I found it hard because according to some prep companies you have to first analyze every possible choice and then justify which one you pick... writing all that in 5 minutes was difficult.

 

[Advisor Prep]

They say you shouldn't study for the test on their site... lies lol

The truth is, it's in their best interest (ie. increases validity of their product) if you don't study, not yours.

 

[Advisor Prep]

I found it hard because according to some prep companies you have to first analyze every possible choice and then justify which one you pick... writing all that in 5 minutes was difficult.

The video scenarios are situation based, but there are also many other questions typically on the test that do not require you to analyze every possible choice as they are behavioral based on your experience. The difficulty lies in ensuring you don't put your foot in your mouth (easier said than done on an SJT when you only have 5 mins). We recommend keeping a diary handy of your relevant experiences as you're taking the test.

 

[DocJuan]

We're glad to hear you left the test feeling confident (ie. you found it super easy/straight forward). One caveat to keep in mind with CASPer is that the test is anything but straightforward. An SJT that may "seem" straightforward, typically isn't.

Notice that on the official takecasper.com under the following FAQ, "Do I need to Study for the test?", the response is very vague, "The general literature suggests that situational judgment tests (SJTs) are relatively immune to test preparation, i.e. that coaching is unlikely to provide benefit." The general literature actually suggests that behavioral SJTs such as CASPer ARE susceptible to faking and coaching effects. With CASPer, applicants are generally left in the dark. With CASPer, applicants are not explicitly provided with a roadmap of the personal and professional characteristics assessed etc, and combined with the fact that applicants do not receive a score, it's easy to see why this test is different than other tests, that are more transparent.

CASPer answers are rated on a likert scale by raters (all done by people, not by a machine) and the results are used to rank your candidacy. If you rank poorly, it hurts your chances of moving on to the next stage in the process.

Thank you this clarifies a lot. And I might have misspoken. Just because I found the work scenarios straightforward doesn't mean that it was objectively straightforward. It's just that with the work scenarios, I thought of what I would do at my job working with electronic medical records. We get to watch numerous boring training videos for compliance. With the family scenarios, I feel like I gave thoughtful answers based off of past experience. If anything this gives people with real life experience an edge.

 

[salemstein]

Couple decades ago, they made the MCAT. This year they have CASPer. Twenty years from now, they are going to have the DISASPer. Unlike the claims of people who make these kinds of tests, DISASPer is ACTUALLY a test no one can study for. The test is taken under standard conditions of 1 minute per question and consists of only one question: Why to you want to be a doctor? While you're thinking of an answer, your mind is going to be read by a machine and rated on a scale from 1 to 100. Now if it detects something along the lines of "for the money" or "for prestige," that will lead a failing score. A score of 50 is considered passing, but you need around 80-90+ to be considered competitive, inching up every year. HMS had an accepted average of 98 on DISASPer.
The year after the test was first administered, Kaplan started offering a course for premeds titled "Self-induced mind control." Effectiveness have yet to be determined, tho word is spreading that TPR and Advisor prep are offering similar classes.

 

[bananafish94]

I never took CASPer for any of my schools. Do you actually get a "score" for it, like the MCAT? I always thought that you answered questions and schools would evaluate your answers in light of their mission, etc. How exactly would such a thing be graded?

 

[yaka]

Couple decades ago, they made the MCAT. This year they have CASPer. Twenty years from now, they are going to have the DISASPer. Unlike the claims of people who make these kinds of tests, DISASPer is ACTUALLY a test no one can study for. The test is taken under standard conditions of 1 minute per question and consists of only one question: Why to you want to be a doctor? While you're thinking of an answer, your mind is going to be read by a machine and rated on a scale from 1 to 100. Now if it detects something along the lines of "for the money" or "for prestige," that will lead a failing score. A score of 50 is considered passing, but you need around 80-90+ to be considered competitive, inching up every year. HMS had an accepted average of 98 on DISASPer.
The year after the test was first administered, Kaplan started offering a course for premeds titled "Self-induced mind control." Effectiveness have yet to be determined, tho word is spreading that TPR and Advisor prep are offering similar classes.

Starting to sound like the Voigt-Kampf test from Blade Runner/Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.

 

[starspells]

Do the schools just see your score or your responses to the questions?

 

[Aubrey Graham]

Anyone taking it June 26?

 

[Advisor Prep]

Do the schools just see your score or your responses to the questions?

Just where your score ranks you.

 

[AirplaneFruit]

Just where your score ranks you.

Wow that's some BS then

I thought it was just like an "additional" secondary essay that is also subject to subjective evaluation by adcoms.

Now you're saying there's an unaffiliated intermediary subjectively scoring essay answers (for content) and turning them into numerical reports?

How did this ever get approved

 

[gyngyn]

CASPer is rubbish. MMIs are fine and all but CASPer is just a $10 words per minute test. All I can see it correlating with is time spent on SOAP notes.

They are marketing it like crazy. I have the equivalent of spam from the company that peddles it every week or so. They imply that failure to use it will reflect badly on an LCME site visit.

 

[Lawpy]

Have there been any studies or analyses regarding the validity of CASPer? I realize it's new but there has to be some important advantage if more schools are beginning to adopt it.

 

[gyngyn]

Have there been any studies or analyses regarding the validity of CASPer? I realize it's new but there has to be some important advantage if more schools are beginning to adopt it.

https://aacrao-web.s3.amazonaws.com/files/mq3oRZsPTGy1LhhNC22q_T0100p_H_Reiter.pdf

 

[Lawpy]

https://aacrao-web.s3.amazonaws.com/files/mq3oRZsPTGy1LhhNC22q_T0100p_H_Reiter.pdf

Thanks!

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks!

This is the bibliography for the support of situational judgement tests.
I have a paper specifically on CASPer that I can't seem to access right now.
I'll try from the office tomorrow.

 

[Lawpy]

This is the bibliography for the support of situational judgement tests.
I have a paper specifically on CASPer that I can't seem to access right now.
I'll try from the office tomorrow.

Sure no problem. I'm curious as to why US schools are so interested in it. If I recall, it seems that CASPer is widely implemented in Canada, and US seems to follow that because it's effective some way.

Time to do some reading now. Saved for reference

 

[gyngyn]

Sure no problem. I'm curious as to why US schools are so interested in it. If I recall, it seems that CASPer is widely implemented in Canada, and US seems to follow that because it's effective some way.

Time to do some reading now. Saved for reference

I can't find it because it is a submitted paper by Kelly Dore!
They (we?) are trying to show that by relinquishing our own judgement in favor of someone else's, we are being more objective.

 

[Lawpy]

I can't find it because it is a submitted paper by Kelly Dore!

submitted papers don't count!

 

[gyngyn]

submitted papers don't count!

You are absolutely right. They sent it to me after a strong-arm session and I didn't look at it until I started searching for a validity study to answer your query.

 

[Lawpy]

You are absolutely right. They sent it to me after a strong-arm session and I didn't look at it until I started searching for a validity study to answer your query.

Well i'll just look at the more recent studies from the bibliography you had sent. Just to have an overview why it's popular and whether there are better alternatives to it.

I'm a little lost why it's uniquely popular among the low-yield schools (I think NYMC, and UIC?).

 

[gyngyn]

Well i'll just look at the more recent studies from the bibliography you had sent. Just to have an overview why it's popular and whether there are better alternatives to it.

I'm a little lost why it's uniquely popular among the low-yield schools (I think NYMC, and UIC?).

After their presentation last month, I'll bet half of the CA schools will fall for it within a year or two!

 

[Lawpy]

After their presentation to the UC schools last month, I'll bet half of the CA schools will fall for it within a year or two!

So CASPer will become pretty much mainstream in, say, 5-10 years or so?

 

[gyngyn]

So CASPer will become pretty much mainstream in, say, 5-10 years or so?

Who knows?

 

[Lawpy]

Who knows?

Wait a little confused. MMIs are recent right? As a way to have a better assessment of interview performance, which traditional interviews seemingly struggle to grasp it adequately?

 

[gyngyn]

Wait a little confused. MMIs are recent right? As a way to have a better assessment of interview performance, which traditional interviews seemingly struggle to grasp it adequately?

The search for a situational judgement test is likely to continue for the foreseeable future: https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/admissionsinitiative/sjt/

 

[Lawpy]

The search for a situational judgement test is likely to continue for the foreseeable future: https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/admissionsinitiative/sjt/

I was looking for this, thanks!

 

[gyngyn]

I was looking for this, thanks!

Here's the company: http://altusassessments.com/

 

[doctorleospaceman]

They are marketing it like crazy. I have the equivalent of spam from the company that peddles it every week or so. They imply that failure to use it will reflect badly on an LCME site visit.

Do they also ask for your bank account number and SSN? Those emails sounds like the ramblings of a mysterious african prince.

I understand the reasoning and logic behind it, but I think CASPer still fails at what it is actually trying to accomplish. I'm sure a few years into the future it'll be mainstream, but they need to at least update their servers first.

 

[gyngyn]

Do they also ask for your bank account number and SSN? Those emails sounds like the ramblings of a mysterious african prince.

Sadly, they have the market cornered.
I don't like being held up this way, though.

 

[DocJuan]

Just where your score ranks you.

Is it feasible that schools might let you know your rating during an interview?

 

[bobby.j]

Is it feasible that schools might let you know your rating during an interview?

This would be nice but I have yet to hear it happen. I could be wrong but I think schools are not supposed to disclose this information.

Also, since you found the test easy, would you mind sharing with us why you thought it was easy? I've read that many of the questions appear easy but are not easy at all.

 

[DocJuan]

This would be nice but I have yet to hear it happen. I could be wrong but I think schools are not supposed to disclose this information.

Also, since you found the test easy, would you mind sharing with us why you thought it was easy? I've read that many of the questions appear easy but are not easy at all.

That sucks but oh well.

I explained why I found it to be easy in my second post on this thread. Essentially I've had to watch countless training videos for work that dea with almost identical situations presented in the CASPer videos. I didn't say it was common sense. Still pretty easy though.

 

[tsy]

Does any one know how long it takes for a school to receive your results. I took mine on 7/26 and may rwjs application is on hold until the receive the score

 

[Advisor Prep]

Does any one know how long it takes for a school to receive your results. I took mine on 7/26 and may rwjs application is on hold until the receive the score

typically a month