Chance of DO landing MD Radiolgy Residency?(Unsure of where to post this)

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mms2k7

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Personally, i look at MD and DO as fairly equal options, i realize that competitiveness is what separates the two during school and even residency selection. Regardless, as the title said,

where would i find info on national DO residency matches? Mostly im curious about how many DOs that take the USMLE (move over to the ABIM side) land high powered residency's. Basically in demand fields, like derm, cardio, radio, endocrine. Mostly I am interested in radiology ( I always have been, its freakin cool!), and the the difficulty/statistics of a DO graduate landing a reputable residency.

Personally, I feel that if you have the scores, landing residencies of your choice at an institution of your choice should not be an issue. But there are disagreements about this.

Your input is valued, feel free to contribute 🙂
Thanks
 
(Unsure of where to post this)


Definitely DO forum. They will be able to give you more assistance.
 
Oh crap, here we go again......
 
you have 60 post and have been a member since August 2006, and yet, you don't know where to post this? 👎 hahahaha :laugh:
 
mms2k7 said:
Personally, I feel that if you have the scores, landing residencies of your choice at an institution of your choice should not be an issue. But there are disagreements about this.
Click to expand...

I dont think there are ANY disagreements. Just because you have the scores doesnt put you in a residency.

I know people at the top of their class (literally) who didnt match at their top few choices. They had the numbers, the just didnt have the whole package. They didnt impress people on rotations, they didnt say the right things in the interview, the LORs werent stellar...numbers are just part of the equation.

Radiology is a competitive field, no doubt about that. You do need good board scores adn the right connections.

There are roughly 200 radiology residency programs in the US (14 of them are DO programs).

Now to say that a DO with equal numbers stands an equal chance of matching into an MD program would be false. But this is where you need to be smart.

How can you improve your chances? Well, the numbers are a must. But you need to rotate at those programs you are applying to. Look at medical schools that allow you a variety of electives in your 3rd & 4th year.

I went to a medical school that has 28 weeks of elective time. Some schools only have 8. Big difference.

Find out the big players in the programs you are interested in. Talk to the residents and find out who writes good letters and who is the "must have" letter of recommendation.

Show up early, stay late, study and participate. Try and get involved in research projects in medical school (yes, DO schools do research...in fact some of them do quite a bit of research).

Going to a DO school should never hold you back from the specialty you want to pursue. If you have the numbers and the drive you will get there. I dont know many people who failed to reach their goal of becoming a (fill in the blank), but the ones who did all had *something* that just wasnt right. Numbers, personality, work ethic...something wasnt complete

Be the complete student and you will become the complete physician, no matter your degree.

Best of luck.
 
JPHazelton said:
I dont think there are ANY disagreements. Just because you have the scores doesnt put you in a residency.

I know people at the top of their class (literally) who didnt match at their top few choices. They had the numbers, the just didnt have the whole package. They didnt impress people on rotations, they didnt say the right things in the interview, the LORs werent stellar...numbers are just part of the equation.

Radiology is a competitive field, no doubt about that. You do need good board scores adn the right connections.

There are roughly 200 radiology residency programs in the US (14 of them are DO programs).

Now to say that a DO with equal numbers stands an equal chance of matching into an MD program would be false. But this is where you need to be smart.

How can you improve your chances? Well, the numbers are a must. But you need to rotate at those programs you are applying to. Look at medical schools that allow you a variety of electives in your 3rd & 4th year.

I went to a medical school that has 28 weeks of elective time. Some schools only have 8. Big difference.

Find out the big players in the programs you are interested in. Talk to the residents and find out who writes good letters and who is the "must have" letter of recommendation.

Show up early, stay late, study and participate. Try and get involved in research projects in medical school (yes, DO schools do research...in fact some of them do quite a bit of research).

Going to a DO school should never hold you back from the specialty you want to pursue. If you have the numbers and the drive you will get there. I dont know many people who failed to reach their goal of becoming a (fill in the blank), but the ones who did all had *something* that just wasnt right. Numbers, personality, work ethic...something wasnt complete

Be the complete student and you will become the complete physician, no matter your degree.

Best of luck.
Click to expand...

Great read thanks again JP 👍
 
mms2k7 said:
Personally, i look at MD and DO as fairly equal options, i realize that competitiveness is what separates the two during school and even residency selection. Regardless, as the title said,

where would i find info on national DO residency matches? Mostly im curious about how many DOs that take the USMLE (move over to the ABIM side) land high powered residency's. Basically in demand fields, like derm, cardio, radio, endocrine. Mostly I am interested in radiology ( I always have been, its freakin cool!), and the the difficulty/statistics of a DO graduate landing a reputable residency.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Worry about surviving all 4 years of medical school before you decide on a specialty. I wish I had a nickel for every pre-med who enters med school saying he's going to be a surgeon, dermatologist, or radiologist and then ranks 150 out of a class of 200 and realizes he's not as smart as he thought.
 
J1515 said:
I wish I had a nickel for every pre-med who enters med school saying he's going to be a surgeon, dermatologist, or radiologist and then ranks 150 out of a class of 200 and realizes he's not as smart as he thought.
Click to expand...

Very true.
 
group_theory said:
Radiology is a tough field to go into, but not impossible. Besides the DO radiology residencies, there are DOs in ACGME (MD) residencies too.

Here is a link to a few example

Temple University Radiology Residency
http://www.temple.edu/medicine/depa...departments/radiology_residency_residents.htm

Penn State Radiology Residency
http://www.hmc.psu.edu/radiology/residency/residents.htm

University of Illinois at Peoria Radiology Residency
http://www.uicomp.uic.edu/radres/ourresidents.htm
Click to expand...


Interesting. Very regionalistic.

OP, just worry about medical school rather than residency. As long as you're not in an island program, you should be fine. Radiology is nice indeed; however, you may find something else you like better.
 
A DO Friend of mine just finished his MD Rads residency and matched into a Peds Rads Fellowship at Harvard.
 
DOSouthpaw said:
A DO Friend of mine just finished his MD Rads residency and matched into a Peds Rads Fellowship at Harvard.
Click to expand...

Nice. A close doctor friend was a FMG who did his Rads residency in the US and then went on to doing a Peds Rads Fellowship at Harvard, as well. So, it's doable. However, he's a superstar.
 
J1515 said:
...I wish I had a nickel for every pre-med who enters med school saying he's going to be a surgeon, dermatologist, or radiologist and then ranks 150 out of a class of 200 and realizes he's not as smart as he thought.
Click to expand...

This is the best.... it is so true as well. See I know my limitations... but some people are too stupid to know their limits.

To O.P. if you want to be a radiologist in an MD residency.. sure.. just send you check to me and I will tell you how.
 
J1515 said:
Worry about surviving all 4 years of medical school before you decide on a specialty.
Click to expand...

👍 Trudat.

Rads may be one of things that is easier to match as a DO. I've been told that there are a bunch of DO PGY's in rads that aren't available to MD grads.
 
Riker here.

It's very difficult for a D.O. to get an M.D. residency or job in radiology.

Riker out. 😎
 
MaximusD said:
False in most instances. Riker, you are being ridiculous tonight.

Keep in mind it is quite difficult for anyone - MD or DO - to get into one of the competitive rads spots.
Click to expand...

L.O.L., wrong. While it's difficult for an M.D. to land an allopathic radiological residency, it's almost impossible for a D.O. to land the same spot. The D.O. will have a reasonable chance at an osteopathic radiological residency.

Riker out. 😀 😀
 
CommanderRiker said:
L.O.L., wrong. While it's difficult for an M.D. to land an allopathic radiological residency, it's almost impossible for a D.O. to land the same spot. The D.O. will have a reasonable chance at an osteopathic radiological residency.

Riker out. 😀 😀
Click to expand...

can someone with some experience please tell this dude he's wrong... i don't have the credibility...yet.
 
MaximusD said:
can someone with some experience please tell this dude he's wrong... i don't have the credibility...yet.
Click to expand...

No need. Just have Riker say the same thing to the DO residents in the allopathic radiology residencies (that I posted various links to in my above post). I'm sure Cdr Riker knows more about allopathic radiology residencies than the DOs in them.
 
I'm a radiology resident at an MD program. Riker may have been a little over the top, but he's largely correct. DO's are at a considerable disadvantage when applying to MD radiology programs.

For the original poster, you want to PM someone by the name of Vince, who is a DO who matched into a California MD radiology program a couple years back and tap into his experiences. He succeeded, but it was definitely an uphill battle.

The competition for radiology spots has remained constantly hot over the last several years, and therefore, remains difficult for MD's and DO's alike. Still, as a DO applicant, you will be handicapped in your application to many MD radiology residencies; many of the competitive MD radiology programs flat out do not interview DO's.

As you progress down to lower tier MD programs, or those in less desirable locations, your chances of getting interviews goes up.

As an example, of the 3 programs listed above with DO residents, Temple Radiology was in horrible flux 2-5 years ago, and was very short-staffed, with lots of attending turnover. Residents there were not happy. This was well-known during the interview trail. Peoria and PSU are decent programs in bad locations (although Peoria does have one of the top interventional radiology fellowships in the country).

As an aside, most radiology fellowships, aside from Neuro, MSK, and MRI are fairly wide open, since the job market is so good. Pretty much any reasonable candidate could pull a top peds fellowship, since peds radiology is one of the least competitive radiology fellowships currently.

If you are already in DO school, and are dead set on matching radiology, then you need to optimize your chances.

Consider the DO radiology programs. If you are dead-set on an MD radiology program, then you give up the advantage of access to those DO programs (since MD applicants can't apply to them.)

Take the USMLE step 1 and rock it. Get those away electives in and make connections. Publish research. Get known in your home program, so that you have advocates working for you. Apply broadly, and at places where DO applicants have interviewed or been accepted in the past.

The last statement is one of the most important. It is a waste of time and money to apply to programs that have never interviewed DO applicants. Call the various programs, and get in touch with upperclassmen to figure out which MD programs you should be targeting. Clearly, Temple, PSU, and UI-Peoria are places to consider.

As an example, my program doesn't interview DO applicants. It's better that you call around to the programs you are interested in to find out these things ahead of time, rather than wasting the money on an application. I'm not mentioning this to be a jerk, it's just the prevailing opinion of our selection committee that MD applicants are preferred, and we have too many of them as it is.
 
Flankstripe said:
I'm a radiology resident at an MD program. Riker may have been a little over the top, but he's largely correct. DO's are at a considerable disadvantage when applying to MD radiology programs.

For the original poster, you want to PM someone by the name of Vince, who is a DO who matched into a California MD radiology program a couple years back and tap into his experiences. He succeeded, but it was definitely an uphill battle.

The competition for radiology spots has remained constantly hot over the last several years, and therefore, remains difficult for MD's and DO's alike. Still, as a DO applicant, you will be handicapped in your application to many MD radiology residencies; many of the competitive MD radiology programs flat out do not interview DO's.

As you progress down to lower tier MD programs, or those in less desirable locations, your chances of getting interviews goes up.

As an example, of the 3 programs listed above with DO residents, Temple Radiology was in horrible flux 2-5 years ago, and was very short-staffed, with lots of attending turnover. Residents there were not happy. This was well-known during the interview trail. Peoria and PSU are decent programs in bad locations (although Peoria does have one of the top interventional radiology fellowships in the country).

As an aside, most radiology fellowships, aside from Neuro, MSK, and MRI are fairly wide open, since the job market is so good. Pretty much any reasonable candidate could pull a top peds fellowship, since peds radiology is one of the least competitive radiology fellowships currently.

If you are already in DO school, and are dead set on matching radiology, then you need to optimize your chances.

Consider the DO radiology programs. If you are dead-set on an MD radiology program, then you give up the advantage of access to those DO programs (since MD applicants can't apply to them.)

Take the USMLE step 1 and rock it. Get those away electives in and make connections. Publish research. Get known in your home program, so that you have advocates working for you. Apply broadly, and at places where DO applicants have interviewed or been accepted in the past.

The last statement is one of the most important. It is a waste of time and money to apply to programs that have never interviewed DO applicants. Call the various programs, and get in touch with upperclassmen to figure out which MD programs you should be targeting. Clearly, Temple, PSU, and UI-Peoria are places to consider.

As an example, my program doesn't interview DO applicants. It's better that you call around to the programs you are interested in to find out these things ahead of time, rather than wasting the money on an application. I'm not mentioning this to be a jerk, it's just the prevailing opinion of our selection committee that MD applicants are preferred, and we have too many of them as it is.
Click to expand...

That's total BS. They're only hurting themselves.
 
Flankstripe said:
I'm a radiology resident at an MD program. Riker may have been a little over the top, but he's largely correct. DO's are at a considerable disadvantage when applying to MD radiology programs.

For the original poster, you want to PM someone by the name of Vince, who is a DO who matched into a California MD radiology program a couple years back and tap into his experiences. He succeeded, but it was definitely an uphill battle.

The competition for radiology spots has remained constantly hot over the last several years, and therefore, remains difficult for MD's and DO's alike. Still, as a DO applicant, you will be handicapped in your application to many MD radiology residencies; many of the competitive MD radiology programs flat out do not interview DO's.

As you progress down to lower tier MD programs, or those in less desirable locations, your chances of getting interviews goes up.

As an example, of the 3 programs listed above with DO residents, Temple Radiology was in horrible flux 2-5 years ago, and was very short-staffed, with lots of attending turnover. Residents there were not happy. This was well-known during the interview trail. Peoria and PSU are decent programs in bad locations (although Peoria does have one of the top interventional radiology fellowships in the country).

As an aside, most radiology fellowships, aside from Neuro, MSK, and MRI are fairly wide open, since the job market is so good. Pretty much any reasonable candidate could pull a top peds fellowship, since peds radiology is one of the least competitive radiology fellowships currently.

If you are already in DO school, and are dead set on matching radiology, then you need to optimize your chances.

Consider the DO radiology programs. If you are dead-set on an MD radiology program, then you give up the advantage of access to those DO programs (since MD applicants can't apply to them.)

Take the USMLE step 1 and rock it. Get those away electives in and make connections. Publish research. Get known in your home program, so that you have advocates working for you. Apply broadly, and at places where DO applicants have interviewed or been accepted in the past.

The last statement is one of the most important. It is a waste of time and money to apply to programs that have never interviewed DO applicants. Call the various programs, and get in touch with upperclassmen to figure out which MD programs you should be targeting. Clearly, Temple, PSU, and UI-Peoria are places to consider.

As an example, my program doesn't interview DO applicants. It's better that you call around to the programs you are interested in to find out these things ahead of time, rather than wasting the money on an application. I'm not mentioning this to be a jerk, it's just the prevailing opinion of our selection committee that MD applicants are preferred, and we have too many of them as it is.
Click to expand...


Your opinion is rather sobering, but as a current rads resident, I'll take it with more of a grain of salt than those not familiar with the selection process.

If you comb auntminnie.com for the DO users that have posted their MD interviews, a common theme is the reputation of their given DO schools. Now I'm not a firm believer in the concept of ranking DO schools, but I think it's probably well established in residency circles the reputation of certain ones (for instance, TCOM, DMU, KCUMB). As expected, those schools tend to match MD rads positions at a higher rate than others (granted, they have large class sizes, but upon looking at other DO school match lists of comparable size, I don't find the same match rate for MD rads). I realize there are other factors (namely, the % of DO students in a given sample size applying to MD rads residencies), but I think the name of the game for a DO student interested in MD rads is much what you've said. It may be hard to do radiology research at a DO school (since I believe it's very limited, though someone correct me if I'm wrong), but I figure if you rock the USMLE, maintain a high class rank, rock your away rotations, get great SLOR's, apply broadly to mid-low tier MD rads residencies (and realize that there is a strong regional bias at times), then you may be successful. You could also hedge your bets and apply to less rads programs and supplement it by applying to another specialty of your own interest.
 
snrub said:
Your opinion is rather sobering, but as a current rads resident, I'll take it with more of a grain of salt than those not familiar with the selection process.

If you comb auntminnie.com for the DO users that have posted their MD interviews, a common theme is the reputation of their given DO schools. Now I'm not a firm believer in the concept of ranking DO schools, but I think it's probably well established in residency circles the reputation of certain ones (for instance, TCOM, DMU, KCUMB). As expected, those schools tend to match MD rads positions at a higher rate than others (granted, they have large class sizes, but upon looking at other DO school match lists of comparable size, I don't find the same match rate for MD rads). I realize there are other factors (namely, the % of DO students in a given sample size applying to MD rads residencies), but I think the name of the game for a DO student interested in MD rads is much what you've said. It may be hard to do radiology research at a DO school (since I believe it's very limited, though someone correct me if I'm wrong), but I figure if you rock the USMLE, maintain a high class rank, rock your away rotations, get great SLOR's, apply broadly to mid-low tier MD rads residencies (and realize that there is a strong regional bias at times), then you may be successful. You could also hedge your bets and apply to less rads programs and supplement it by applying to another specialty of your own interest.
Click to expand...
Having just gone through the MD rads match this year, I pretty much agree with this last post and the one from Flankstripe.
 
There were a couple of people in my class that got allopathic rads, as I recall one of these was military so I guess that doesn't really count. One of the guys that got rads was a real standout. I don't know about his audition rotations or whatever but I know that he was at the top (if not#1) of our class. He also smoked Step I - I wouldn't be surprised if this guy scored >260. I think the main reason he went to DO school was because his dad was a DO. One of my buddies from intern year saw this guy out on the interview trail at some pretty good places. On the other hand I know that there were at least a couple of other people that went unmatched. You really need to be a standout applicant.
 
Someone in the year below me at NSUCOM applied to rads. Apparently he had good board scores, "connections" in the field of rads, and told everyone at school and his rotations that "I basically already have the spot" at a mid-tier MD allopathic program. He boasted it like a new car.

Well, he didn't match.

Anywhere.

He's doing DO FP now.

Q
 
Good storyyyy ... that is what happens when you chase a bird you can't get.
 
2 from VCOM just matched rads at wake......
 
Thanks for the advice guys i really appreciate it 🙂 bookmarked this baby. lots of good info, lots of helpful people (that only applies to those of you who posted helpful posts 😛). I will look into your suggestions.
 
I matched into allo radiology last March. So did 5 other of my fellow NYCOM students. We all did pretty well, though no Tier 1 programs obviously. Is it competitive? I think so yes.

I am top 15% of the class, >230 on usmle, no research, nothing special LOR. Oh and my PS sucked. I didn't match at my top choices, but I had some long shot university programs on there which I guess I am lucky to just interviewed at. I still matched at what I consider to be a solid community program and thats all I ever wanted anyway.

Is it significantly harder for a DO? Lets put it this way, all else being the same I probably would have gotten a few more interviews and matched a little higher on my rank list. I do not doubt that. With that said, I do doubt it would be a huge difference.

Also, I could have done much, much worse as well. There were programs I turned down before my interview and some I didn't rank after when it was all said and done. What that means is that even as a DO you don't have to just take the "whatever you can get left over programs". You have a say in where you go (although it becomes tougher if you are set on a particular region).

To be completely clear if you are a "good student" (and take the usmle) being a DO will only effect where not if you get into radiology, and in the end I think you will be pleasantly surprised with how well you do. As was I.
 
I guess I shouldn't have said "obviously". That was a bit misleading. I interviewed at a few tier 1 programs, and DO's have matched there and elsewhere in the past. Just not from my school this year.

By no means are Tier 1 programs are not out of reach of a DO for any specialty. It does become significantly harder though especially for more competitive fields like rads.
 
silhouette said:
I guess I shouldn't have said "obviously". That was a bit misleading. I interviewed at a few tier 1 programs, and DO's have matched there and elsewhere in the past. Just not from my school this year.

By no means are Tier 1 programs are not out of reach of a DO for any specialty. It does become significantly harder though especially for more competitive fields like rads.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. You never know when a desirable location will force you to settle for a tier 1 program. 😛 Although you might not be able to enjoy where you're living, as these programs seem to work their residents a wee bit more than the average.
 
Flankstripe said:
I'm a radiology resident at an MD program. Riker may have been a little over the top, but he's largely correct. DO's are at a considerable disadvantage when applying to MD radiology programs.

For the original poster, you want to PM someone by the name of Vince, who is a DO who matched into a California MD radiology program a couple years back and tap into his experiences. He succeeded, but it was definitely an uphill battle.

The competition for radiology spots has remained constantly hot over the last several years, and therefore, remains difficult for MD's and DO's alike. Still, as a DO applicant, you will be handicapped in your application to many MD radiology residencies; many of the competitive MD radiology programs flat out do not interview DO's.

As you progress down to lower tier MD programs, or those in less desirable locations, your chances of getting interviews goes up.

As an example, of the 3 programs listed above with DO residents, Temple Radiology was in horrible flux 2-5 years ago, and was very short-staffed, with lots of attending turnover. Residents there were not happy. This was well-known during the interview trail. Peoria and PSU are decent programs in bad locations (although Peoria does have one of the top interventional radiology fellowships in the country).

As an aside, most radiology fellowships, aside from Neuro, MSK, and MRI are fairly wide open, since the job market is so good. Pretty much any reasonable candidate could pull a top peds fellowship, since peds radiology is one of the least competitive radiology fellowships currently.

If you are already in DO school, and are dead set on matching radiology, then you need to optimize your chances.

Consider the DO radiology programs. If you are dead-set on an MD radiology program, then you give up the advantage of access to those DO programs (since MD applicants can't apply to them.)

Take the USMLE step 1 and rock it. Get those away electives in and make connections. Publish research. Get known in your home program, so that you have advocates working for you. Apply broadly, and at places where DO applicants have interviewed or been accepted in the past.

The last statement is one of the most important. It is a waste of time and money to apply to programs that have never interviewed DO applicants. Call the various programs, and get in touch with upperclassmen to figure out which MD programs you should be targeting. Clearly, Temple, PSU, and UI-Peoria are places to consider.

As an example, my program doesn't interview DO applicants. It's better that you call around to the programs you are interested in to find out these things ahead of time, rather than wasting the money on an application. I'm not mentioning this to be a jerk, it's just the prevailing opinion of our selection committee that MD applicants are preferred, and we have too many of them as it is.
Click to expand...

😀 😀 Thank you for the realistic view.
 
CommanderRiker said:
😀 😀 Thank you for the realistic view.
Click to expand...

What is your status? Are you a applicant, matriculating student, etc? You seem to always want to stir up trouble here. Are you applying to Osteopathic Medical Schools? Please leave if your goal is to cause problems b/c you are getting annoying.
 
USArmyDoc said:
What is your status? Are you a applicant, matriculating student, etc? You seem to always want to stir up trouble here. Are you applying to Osteopathic Medical Schools? Please leave if your goal is to cause problems b/c you are getting annoying.
Click to expand...
apparently he's coming to PCOM.....
 
Get the **** out of here. How pathetic our admissions committee is b/c they basically let someone in who has nothing but bad things to say about osteopathic physicians. I look at his post history and almost every single post is something negative. Oh, and that annoying...."Riker here." Get a life dude....Grow up I hope you fail out.
 
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