Chance of top/mid tier program with red flags

[Gasx3]

Hi,

I'm a OMSII at MSUCOM who's interested in gas. I have failed two classes, but passed remediation, during my first year. I have done much better during my 2nd year, but couldn't go above 2nd quintile. I have participated in no leadership roles or volunteering in med school. So only extracurricular activity that I have is one publication (not first author), and one poster presentation during undergrad. I know I'll be a considered a weak applicant due to my grades, but do I even have chances at matching top tier programs like U of M, given a good step score? If so, what score should I aim for? Is mid 230s enough or should I aim much higher? Or should I not even think about getting into those programs and be happy to match into any program that would accept me? Lastly, would doing away rotations help in my case? Thank you for the honest feedbacks!

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[CubsDynasty]

"Is mid 230s enough or should I aim much higher"
Answer: Much higher. Just as a point of reference 2017 AAMC Report on Residents has USMLE scores of 232 and 241 as average scores. 75%ile is 243 and 252, with 3 research experiences, and 4 abstracts/publications. With those red flags, as an OMS, and a fairly unremarkable application you will need to score significantly higher for a top tier program. Not out of the realm of possibility, just knock it out of the park and try to get more involved.

 

[UrbanAchievers]

Hi,

I'm a OMSII at MSUCOM who's interested in gas. I have failed two classes, but passed remediation, during my first year. I have done much better during my 2nd year, but couldn't go above 2nd quintile. I have participated in no leadership roles or volunteering in med school. So only extracurricular activity that I have is one publication (not first author), and one poster presentation during undergrad. I know I'll be a considered a weak applicant due to my grades, but do I even have chances at matching top tier programs like U of M, given a good step score? If so, what score should I aim for? Is mid 230s enough or should I aim much higher? Or should I not even think about getting into those programs and be happy to match into any program that would accept me? Lastly, would doing away rotations help in my case? Thank you for the honest feedbacks!

There is no magic number for you. It needs to be as high as possible. Your Step 2 also needs to be very high as well.

Admission committees need to know you will not fail BASIC during CA1 year. Your red flags are going to be difficult to overlook even though you have done well since then as evidenced by now being second quintile. The relative empty application otherwise does not help too much.

 

[Gasx3]

There is no magic number for you. It needs to be as high as possible. Your Step 2 also needs to be very high as well.

Admission committees need to know you will not fail BASIC during CA1 year. Your red flags are going to be difficult to overlook even though you have done well since then as evidenced by now being second quintile. The relative empty application otherwise does not help too much.

"Is mid 230s enough or should I aim much higher"
Answer: Much higher. Just as a point of reference 2017 AAMC Report on Residents has USMLE scores of 232 and 241 as average scores. 75%ile is 243 and 252, with 3 research experiences, and 4 abstracts/publications. With those red flags, as an OMS, and a fairly unremarkable application you will need to score significantly higher for a top tier program. Not out of the realm of possibility, just knock it out of the park and try to get more involved.

Thank you. Realistically, I doubt I could hit above 240. I think I should focus on more reachable schools (mid/low tiers). Other than trying my best to get highest step scores, what else could I do during third year to beef up my application? I do agree that I would have an "empty application" if I don't do anything.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Agreed with the others. As a DO student you'll need 10-15 points above what a comparable MD student would need on the Steps and the typical accepted DO applicant at a mid-to-high tier program is very accomplished with excellent stats in top 20% of the class. So 240, or really 250 is what you should be shooting for. The red flags aren't all that bad, as long as you sustain solid academic performance going forward.

Having some reaches isn't a bad thing at all, but I would certainly focus your efforts on low to mid tiers as you suggest. Seek out programs with DOs in their rolls, and strongly consider an away elective to 1) solidify your interest in the field 2) use it as an audition of sorts and 3) possibly get a letter. See if you can't get a hold of some anesthesiology faculty and put together a poster presentation for a local or national (ASA) conference, it can only help your application.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

You need to apply to the lowest tier programs you can find, and don't be too fussy about location. I'm a U.S. MD student with two bad red flags (failed Step I, failed surgery) and despite applying to anywhere that I thought would take me, I didn't match or SOAP. Now I'm trying to decide if I should try for family medicine or just go back to fixing up houses for a living. It's okay to apply to some mid-tier programs, but realistically you need to apply to lots of places that have historically taken a lot of DO students, have had plenty of unfilled spots in the match, and are in locations that you don't want to vacation in. Do as well as you can on Step I though, and you'll probably get to match somewhere. If you don't do well on Step I, have a solid backup plan in place, like an elective and a few LORs in family medicine.

 

[Psai]

You have no chance at a top program. You are in for a uphill climb just to get into the specialty.

 

[GaseousClay]

You have no chance at a top program. You are in for a uphill climb just to get into the specialty.

thats inaccurate, he has tons of options it just won't be where a majority of people would want to go

 

[Gaseous Clay]

Hi,

I'm a OMSII at MSUCOM who's interested in gas. I have failed two classes, but passed remediation, during my first year. I have done much better during my 2nd year, but couldn't go above 2nd quintile. I have participated in no leadership roles or volunteering in med school. So only extracurricular activity that I have is one publication (not first author), and one poster presentation during undergrad. I know I'll be a considered a weak applicant due to my grades, but do I even have chances at matching top tier programs like U of M, given a good step score? If so, what score should I aim for? Is mid 230s enough or should I aim much higher? Or should I not even think about getting into those programs and be happy to match into any program that would accept me? Lastly, would doing away rotations help in my case? Thank you for the honest feedbacks!

C'mon man, be realist. Your question is can you even match.

Top programs: <0.1% unless you score >250 and absolutely kill an away rotation at such program.
Mid: <5% unless you can score >230, interview well, and no more red flags
Please let me just match: 5-10% if you can score >220, not be a major db on an interview, and no more red flags.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be mean but be realistic. You don't have much going for you, a lot of negatives, and more than likely you won't crush the Boards. I know anesthesia isn't super competitive but it's no cake walk either. If you came from a top 40 US med school I'd be more encouraging but you really have an uphill battle. After you take Step 1 come back and give us an update. FP/IM maybe in your future.

 

[Gaseous Clay]

You need to apply to the lowest tier programs you can find, and don't be too fussy about location. I'm a U.S. MD student with two bad red flags (failed Step I, failed surgery) and despite applying to anywhere that I thought would take me, I didn't match or SOAP. Now I'm trying to decide if I should try for family medicine or just go back to fixing up houses for a living. It's okay to apply to some mid-tier programs, but realistically you need to apply to lots of places that have historically taken a lot of DO students, have had plenty of unfilled spots in the match, and are in locations that you don't want to vacation in. Do as well as you can on Step I though, and you'll probably get to match somewhere. If you don't do well on Step I, have a solid backup plan in place, like an elective and a few LORs in family medicine.

About to graduate and thinking of giving up? That would be a huge mistake you'll likely regret. At the very least go for FP. You could join a practice, be your own boss, or even be a hospitalist somewhere making 250k+. You could find a "Mommy" track position somewhere working part time and still flip homes if you wanted. Sorry to hear about your past but definitely don't give up when you're so close to having all that really mean nothing.

 

[Gasx3]

C'mon man, be realist. Your question is can you even match.

Top programs: <0.1% unless you score >250 and absolutely kill an away rotation at such program.
Mid: <5% unless you can score >230, interview well, and no more red flags
Please let me just match: 5-10% if you can score >220, not be a major db on an interview, and no more red flags.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be mean but be realistic. You don't have much going for you, a lot of negatives, and more than likely you won't crush the Boards. I know anesthesia isn't super competitive but it's no cake walk either. If you came from a top 40 US med school I'd be more encouraging but you really have an uphill battle. After you take Step 1 come back and give us an update. FP/IM maybe in your future.

I totally agree with your assessment. Now I'll go back and lock myself up in the room for the next three month to try my best to crush this beast. Thank you everyone for the comments.

 

[Gasx3]

Oh, one more thing. I just found out that our school has P/F system for clerkship with no H/HP/P. Is this common? How are residency directors supposed to gauge our clerkship performance? I'm bummed out because I believe I can really thrive in the hospital setting.

 

[Mehd School]

Honestly if you can score a 240 or higher on step 1 (easier said than done) a lot of your problems go away. You could easily spin how you learned from your failures and because a better student/person/priest etc.

Despite what you'll read here a lot of times, I truly don't think there's that much difference from program to program in terms of training. That's not to say that there is no difference. My day at Michigan made me feel I'd walk away from residency as a better Anesthesiologist that I would have at Geisinger.

But other places like Louisville - Cincinnati - Wake Forest - UF - Augusta? Probably not as much difference as you'd think.