Chances at SGU

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

DrMoe7

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
16
Reaction score
6
Hey I did poorly in undergrad with GPAs in the 2s but did an SMP and my GPA is now 3.66. My highest MCAT is 491 although my most recent MCAT is 489. I have plenty of ECs including shadowing, hospital employment, and a ton of volunteering. Do I have a chance of getting accepted into SGU?

Actual replies please. No "if you have a checkbook or a pulse you'll get accepted".

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
You seem to have a good chance! Just be sure that SGU is what you want to do.

Have you applied to any US Schools?

Do you think you can improve your MCAT score any?
 
You seem to have a good chance! Just be sure that SGU is what you want to do.

Have you applied to any US Schools?

Do you think you can improve your MCAT score any?

Thanks! And yes I've exhausted my options at this point. I've applied to US schools twice already and my MCAT scores always hover around the same score. I know I can handle the workload once I start there so I'm not too worried about it. I'm just curious as to how their admissions works and whether they would want me to have a higher MCAT
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Thanks! And yes I've exhausted my options at this point. I've applied to US schools twice already and my MCAT scores always hover around the same score. I know I can handle the workload once I start there so I'm not too worried about it. I'm just curious as to how their admissions works and whether they would want me to have a higher MCAT
I'd advise you to figure out your test taking difficulty before entering a very expensive and risky situation. Your MCAT scores and lack of improvement show that you have a major deficit in either studying, applying your knowledge, or strategy on MC exams. Since every exam in med school and residency is MC, it's extremely likely that you'd fail one or more exams. Failing Step 1 at a Caribbean school would mean your residency application would be DOA 2 years before you would even graduate. You'd likely be saddled with hundreds of thousands in student debt with no way to continue your career.

Your SMP GPA proves you can handle the material, but you need to figure out the rest of the puzzle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Hey I did poorly in undergrad with GPAs in the 2s but did an SMP and my GPA is now 3.66. My highest MCAT is 491 although my most recent MCAT is 489. I have plenty of ECs including shadowing, hospital employment, and a ton of volunteering. Do I have a chance of getting accepted into SGU?

Actual replies please. No "if you have a checkbook or a pulse you'll get accepted".

Your GPA should be okay. Your MCAT is low. Just go ahead and apply.
I would assume you're more likely to get placed into MSAP if anything.
 
if you have a checkbook or a pulse you'll get accepted
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
if you have a checkbook or a pulse you'll get accepted
So I only need one of those two things?

I am seriously tired of people posting the same nonsense on these forums. Yes, most Caribbean schools will accept just about anybody, but not when it comes to SGU. I applied with a 2.7 and 501 mcat and they told me to come back after I finished a masters program. I didn’t even get an interview there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
So I only need one of those two things?

I am seriously tired of people posting the same nonsense on these forums. Yes, most Caribbean schools will accept just about anybody, but not when it comes to SGU. I applied with a 2.7 and 501 mcat and they told me to come back after I finished a masters program. I didn’t even get an interview there.
ya you can be dead and as long as your checking account is active they'll take you.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
  • Haha
  • Okay...
Reactions: 3 users
if you have a checkbook or a pulse you'll get accepted

Of course you say exactly what I didn't want as a reply. I'm looking for a better answer than just that. That answer is all over the place here so why would I ask if I just wanted to get that reply? Save your time and energy on something you'll give an actual reply to.
 
Of course you say exactly what I didn't want as a reply. I'm looking for a better answer than just that. That answer is all over the place here so why would I ask if I just wanted to get that reply? Save your time and energy on something you'll give an actual reply to.
ya that's why I said it

just bc you are triggered by the truth doesn't make it less true

They accept almost 2k students a year

If you cant get into a Carribean school you aren't ready for what's in front of you

They decelerate or fail like half their students, chances are if you can't get past their laughable admissions standards you will be one of those people.
 
Hey I did poorly in undergrad with GPAs in the 2s but did an SMP and my GPA is now 3.66. My highest MCAT is 491 although my most recent MCAT is 489. I have plenty of ECs including shadowing, hospital employment, and a ton of volunteering. Do I have a chance of getting accepted into SGU?

Actual replies please. No "if you have a checkbook or a pulse you'll get accepted".

You should be able to get either MSAP acceptance or full acceptance.
 
Hey I did poorly in undergrad with GPAs in the 2s but did an SMP and my GPA is now 3.66. My highest MCAT is 491 although my most recent MCAT is 489. I have plenty of ECs including shadowing, hospital employment, and a ton of volunteering. Do I have a chance of getting accepted into SGU?

Actual replies please. No "if you have a checkbook or a pulse you'll get accepted".
I just want to reiterate trying to figure out where you went wrong with the MCAT before diving into any medical school, let alone one in the Carribean. Though I have seen plenty of instances of low MCAT, high step, since becoming an IMG brings an added layer of "risk", I would try to work on that inconsistency.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Im currently a term 5 at SGU and from what know, they're open to taking almost anyone as long as you dont have any red flags. Its even easier now especially since they just started an April class. Your current GPA is fine and your MCAT isn't the worst. I know people who got in sub 500 so its not a big deal. People with 3.0 GPA averages and a 490-500 MCAT have gotten in. Worst case is they might have you do one extra semester to build your foundation but given your higher GPA, I dont think they will ask that of you.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Im currently a term 5 at SGU and from what know, they're open to taking almost anyone as long as you dont have any red flags. Its even easier now especially since they just started an April class. Your current GPA is fine and your MCAT isn't the worst. I know people who got in sub 500 so its not a big deal. People with 3.0 GPA averages and a 490-500 MCAT have gotten in. Worst case is they might have you do one extra semester to build your foundation but given your higher GPA, I dont think they will ask that of you.
Finished Term 5 and in dedicated step now. I must say, you're spot on. When I started at SGU almost 2 years ago, I knew they were pretty money hungry and accepted a good chunk of students that should not be there, which they ultimately repeated a few terms and left, or dropped out/kicked out. Over the 2 years, I've seen how the school is really business oriented and they don't exactly care about the students too much. It's really a ride or die type of place and its sad to see some amazing people get kicked out with nothing but a 100,000$+ bill. With the new April class, even more students that are not ready/should not be admitted, will ultimately be admitted. The school is basically trying to accept a few hundred more in order to make up for the few hundred that end up dropping out. The school truly needs to start investing more into the students- better teachers, strengthen their curriculum, improve their organization and communication.

It's really not a matter of getting into SGU, as you're spot on with them having pretty low standards lately, it's all about STAYING in and doing well on Step!! So many students that have subpar MCAT or GPA's will be accepted, and so excited, but the reality is its a huge wake up call when they start term 1. Then they are allowed to repeat term 1, well then they struggle in term 2... and term 4, then it's just a mess and I see it too often. Anyways, great video! I wish you the best of luck in term 5 man, it was actually my favorite, albeit nerve-racking terms lol.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Finished Term 5 and in dedicated step now. I must say, you're spot on. When I started at SGU almost 2 years ago, I knew they were pretty money hungry and accepted a good chunk of students that should not be there, which they ultimately repeated a few terms and left, or dropped out/kicked out. Over the 2 years, I've seen how the school is really business oriented and they don't exactly care about the students too much. It's really a ride or die type of place and its sad to see some amazing people get kicked out with nothing but a 100,000$+ bill. With the new April class, even more students that are not ready/should not be admitted, will ultimately be admitted. The school is basically trying to accept a few hundred more in order to make up for the few hundred that end up dropping out. The school truly needs to start investing more into the students- better teachers, strengthen their curriculum, improve their organization and communication.

It's really not a matter of getting into SGU, as you're spot on with them having pretty low standards lately, it's all about STAYING in and doing well on Step!! So many students that have subpar MCAT or GPA's will be accepted, and so excited, but the reality is its a huge wake up call when they start term 1. Then they are allowed to repeat term 1, well then they struggle in term 2... and term 4, then it's just a mess and I see it too often. Anyways, great video! I wish you the best of luck in term 5 man, it was actually my favorite, albeit nerve-racking terms lol.
lol the disillusioned pre-meds that read this are gonna be like what a hater! It cant be that way!

to all future perusers of this thread...

the carib doesn't care about you

they will accept anyone

when we say if you have a checkbook its really that simple

SGU takes like 2000 kids a year, sounds like damn tight admission standards lol
 
It's really not a matter of getting into SGU, as you're spot on with them having pretty low standards lately, it's all about STAYING in and doing well on Step!! So many students that have subpar MCAT or GPA's will be accepted, and so excited, but the reality is its a huge wake up call when they start term 1. Then they are allowed to repeat term 1, well then they struggle in term 2... and term 4, then it's just a mess and I see it too often. Anyways, great video! I wish you the best of luck in term 5 man, it was actually my favorite, albeit nerve-racking terms lol.

This. All. Day. Long.

I'm an SGU grad who was able to navigate the gauntlet and find success. I got VERY fortunate. My roommate who could of been a great physician with a more supportive environment was not so lucky.

I too saw the "what the hell is that person doing here" types the first few terms. After the school soaked them for about $150,000, they cut bait and went fishing for more victims.

Buyer beware.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I disagree. I failed out of college and now recently matched into a university cardiology program from SGU. I worked hard and am among many success stories by no means lucky or "fortunate." SGU is certainly a business but they offer a fair opportunity to those without any. Nobody is getting fooled, tricked or cheated. Tests are not curved to ensure people fail nor is the goal of the school to fail anyone. It goes without say that if you accept students of a lower "tier" who can't get accepted into a US MD/DO program ... more are going to fail. SGU provides the opportunity and it is the choice of the student to decide if he / she thinks they can handle the rigors of medicine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I disagree. I failed out of college and now recently matched into a university cardiology program from SGU. I worked hard and am among many success stories by no means lucky or "fortunate." SGU is certainly a business but they offer a fair opportunity to those without any. Nobody is getting fooled, tricked or cheated. Tests are not curved to ensure people fail nor is the goal of the school to fail anyone. It goes without say that if you accept students of a lower "tier" who can't get accepted into a US MD/DO program ... more are going to fail. SGU provides the opportunity and it is the choice of the student to decide if he / she thinks they can handle the rigors of medicine.
i dont think anyone is disagreeing with you

just pointing out that HALF the people wash out or have to decelerate at some point
 
Hey I did poorly in undergrad with GPAs in the 2s but did an SMP and my GPA is now 3.66. My highest MCAT is 491 although my most recent MCAT is 489. I have plenty of ECs including shadowing, hospital employment, and a ton of volunteering. Do I have a chance of getting accepted into SGU?

Actual replies please. No "if you have a checkbook or a pulse you'll get accepted".

you will likely get accepted to Caribbean even if your GPA had been in the lower 3’s or high 2’s. However, with a GPA above 3.5 you would have pretty good chances of getting into a US school (and a residency) if you stay in the United States. Have you looked into osteopathic schools? If your MCAT can go up a few points (or even just north of 500) you have good chances of staying in the US.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I disagree. I failed out of college and now recently matched into a university cardiology program from SGU. I worked hard and am among many success stories by no means lucky or "fortunate." SGU is certainly a business but they offer a fair opportunity to those without any. Nobody is getting fooled, tricked or cheated. Tests are not curved to ensure people fail nor is the goal of the school to fail anyone. It goes without say that if you accept students of a lower "tier" who can't get accepted into a US MD/DO program ... more are going to fail. SGU provides the opportunity and it is the choice of the student to decide if he / she thinks they can handle the rigors of medicine.
But that's the point. They shouldn't be accepting so many lower tier students. It's predatory. Obviously there are people like you who can achieve in a low resource environment, but that doesn't justify the exorbitant costs, risk to students, and lack of oversight of the school in general.
 
But that's the point. They shouldn't be accepting so many lower tier students. It's predatory. Obviously there are people like you who can achieve in a low resource environment, but that doesn't justify the exorbitant costs, risk to students, and lack of oversight of the school in general.

Shouldn't be accepting according to who? There is such a huge pool of students that didn't excel in college for a multitude of reasons. Some are capable and some are not ... and the reality is there is no way to distinguish that. SGU offers a fair 2nd chance. If they mislead or tricked ... that would be predatory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Shouldn't be accepting according to who? There is such a huge pool of students that didn't excel in college for a multitude of reasons. Some are capable and some are not ... and the reality is there is no way to distinguish that. SGU offers a fair 2nd chance. If they mislead or tricked ... that would be predatory.

This, I think, is the rub. There are some half-decent ways to distinguish that. They're not foolproof, of course. And they can't be extrapolated down to the individual. But I think a simple and straightforward way to communicate at least some of that info to students, would be to publish their admission and graduation statistics. Provide the raw data, and let the user decide. By massaging statistics such that an eager and idealistic medical student sees "96% Step 1 pass rate, equal to US medical schools!" and "961 physicians placed into US residencies" without having easy access to the pool of residency applicants, the number of students that required deceling, the attrition rate per term, or even the class sizes per term, prospective applicants lose the ability to make informed decisions. Those metrics are actively being obfuscated by the medical school. For such a high-risk prospect as medical school, that to me amounts to being misled or tricked. They are profiting off of the life-altering torpedoing of productive, intelligent, and motivated young people. This, to me, is not unlike the concept of informed consent. The consent for taking a risk is only valid when the threshold for being informed is met.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I disagree. I failed out of college and now recently matched into a university cardiology program from SGU. I worked hard and am among many success stories by no means lucky or "fortunate." SGU is certainly a business but they offer a fair opportunity to those without any. Nobody is getting fooled, tricked or cheated. Tests are not curved to ensure people fail nor is the goal of the school to fail anyone. It goes without say that if you accept students of a lower "tier" who can't get accepted into a US MD/DO program ... more are going to fail. SGU provides the opportunity and it is the choice of the student to decide if he / she thinks they can handle the rigors of medicine.

I agree that the opportunity is there, I'm doing fairly well in class and I do feel like the school has covered a big portion of the material that will be on the STEP. You're right that the school does not curve but they just changed the curriculum to pass/fail, if that means anything to you. The way everything runs here is clearly business oriented, many of the professors who taught us pathology a few years ago were practicing physicians who taught in Canadian Medical school's as well. They stopped inviting them, likely due to cost, and now use less experienced professors they have here on the island. The content didn't change much but the delivery dropped significantly in quality, even according to the head of the pathology department. There are certainly brilliant people here, members on the honor society average about a 245 on the STEP, with a fair number of scores above 250. You just have to work harder because the quality of education isn't very good and there are so many smaller, not strictly academically relate issues, that make things even more inconvenient. Things that a school receiving 200k per head shouldn't be having issues with dealing with but since its a for-profit institution, its not surprising. So you're right, but there are just way too many issues in general that makes its very easy to overlook the "fair opportunity" SGU gives us.
 
Hey I did poorly in undergrad with GPAs in the 2s but did an SMP and my GPA is now 3.66. My highest MCAT is 491 although my most recent MCAT is 489. I have plenty of ECs including shadowing, hospital employment, and a ton of volunteering. Do I have a chance of getting accepted into SGU?

Actual replies please. No "if you have a checkbook or a pulse you'll get accepted".

I have a few friends who were placed into the "Charter Foundations Program" before starting for various reasons (some for being no-trad students/being out of school many years before starting, others because they may have had borderline GPA or MCAT but they think you have potential). It's basically a semester before the official start of medical school that you have to pass. Honestly just apply and call up one of the counselors.
 
I agree that the opportunity is there, I'm doing fairly well in class and I do feel like the school has covered a big portion of the material that will be on the STEP. You're right that the school does not curve but they just changed the curriculum to pass/fail, if that means anything to you. The way everything runs here is clearly business oriented, many of the professors who taught us pathology a few years ago were practicing physicians who taught in Canadian Medical school's as well. They stopped inviting them, likely due to cost, and now use less experienced professors they have here on the island. The content didn't change much but the delivery dropped significantly in quality, even according to the head of the pathology department. There are certainly brilliant people here, members on the honor society average about a 245 on the STEP, with a fair number of scores above 250. You just have to work harder because the quality of education isn't very good and there are so many smaller, not strictly academically relate issues, that make things even more inconvenient. Things that a school receiving 200k per head shouldn't be having issues with dealing with but since its a for-profit institution, its not surprising. So you're right, but there are just way too many issues in general that makes its very easy to overlook the "fair opportunity" SGU gives us.

It may seem hard for you to overlook now.... When you match into residency and look back then you can decide if the struggles of bad lecturers, expensive tuition, living in grenada, less than ideal clinical rotation locations, etc etc were worth being able to practice medicine for your entire life...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
It may seem hard for you to overlook now.... When you match into residency and look back then you can decide if the struggles of bad lecturers, expensive tuition, living in grenada, less than ideal clinical rotation locations, etc etc were worth being able to practice medicine for your entire life...
57% match rate last year. Huge financial risk to take.
 
It may seem hard for you to overlook now.... When you match into residency and look back then you can decide if the struggles of bad lecturers, expensive tuition, living in grenada, less than ideal clinical rotation locations, etc etc were worth being able to practice medicine for your entire life...
And for the half that match, you are absolutely correct. For the other half, not so much!! In fact, they might even legitimately feel they were scammed.
 
57% match rate last year. Huge financial risk to take.
And a good 10% or so go on to match after re-applying the next cycle. You are right.... I am sure the people who skate by doing poorly with a 20th percentile step score are upset. I would say 60% chance are pretty good odds considering the population of students...
 
Hey I did poorly in undergrad with GPAs in the 2s but did an SMP and my GPA is now 3.66. My highest MCAT is 491 although my most recent MCAT is 489. I have plenty of ECs including shadowing, hospital employment, and a ton of volunteering. Do I have a chance of getting accepted into SGU?

Actual replies please. No "if you have a checkbook or a pulse you'll get accepted".
If that is your level best you don’t have what it takes to reliably get through to residency. I’m sorry, there are plenty of other meaningful careers
 
  • Love
Reactions: 1 user
And a good 10% or so go on to match after re-applying the next cycle. You are right.... I am sure the people who skate by doing poorly with a 20th percentile step score are upset. I would say 60% chance are pretty good odds considering the population of students...
So here's the situation you're advocating for: You want people who have a history of academic difficulty to move to a remote island with limited resources and limited academic guidance. They take out non-dischargeable loans paying some of the highest rates of tuition and living expenses. Half of them fail out before they get to Step 1. Then, assuming they survive a haphazard assembly of clinical rotations all over the country AND score a decent step 2, they only have a 60% chance of matching into a residency in, almost exclusively, IM or primary care.

All of the people who failed out before graduating and all the people who never match will be saddled with hundreds of thousands in debt for the rest of their life and years of wasted time. And given that up to 50% of a given class doesn't make it past Step 1, that's only about 30% of any class making it to residency.

30% chance of being a doctor (with debt) or 70% chance of not being a doctor, but still with debt.

Oh, and just to note, the kids in my school with a 20th percentile step score almost always match.
 
So here's the situation you're advocating for: You want people who have a history of academic difficulty to move to a remote island with limited resources and limited academic guidance. They take out non-dischargeable loans paying some of the highest rates of tuition and living expenses. Half of them fail out before they get to Step 1. Then, assuming they survive a haphazard assembly of clinical rotations all over the country AND score a decent step 2, they only have a 60% chance of matching into a residency in, almost exclusively, IM or primary care.

All of the people who failed out before graduating and all the people who never match will be saddled with hundreds of thousands in debt for the rest of their life and years of wasted time. And given that up to 50% of a given class doesn't make it past Step 1, that's only about 30% of any class making it to residency.

30% chance of being a doctor (with debt) or 70% chance of not being a doctor, but still with debt.

Oh, and just to note, the kids in my school with a 20th percentile step score almost always match.

Honestly unless you have experienced the carib struggles how do you even argue against someone who has lived the experience.... The arguments are formulated purely on anecdotal knowledge. You hear from so many failures but not from the many more success stories.

I advocate for carib because people deserve a second chance.

"Haphazard Clinical Rotations all over the country" Absolutely False. The vast majority do their rotations at 1 or 2 hospitals in nyc or jersey. Setting up 4th year electives are easy as you can go anywhere in SGUs network of hospitals of which there are plenty in New York / Jersey. There are many frustrations in the clinical years but not being able to complete your clinical rotations is not one of them at SGU or Ross.

The reality is a huge % of people drop out early (prior to clinicals) because they party and continue whatever habits got them there in the first place. Those people took the risk and paid the price. People act like it is such a huge gamble.... but the people that work hard day in and day out and ultimately fail to match in the end.... is a small minority (and I agree that is very unfortunate).

Of those who fail to match many go on to match the following year. Some failed at matching into a competitive field and there are many people with Visa issues of which it is more difficult to match.

Expand your IM / Primary care comment to include psych, pediatrics, pmnr and pathology with a good chunk going into ER as well. That data is widely available.

If you are of average intelligence and do average from start to finish at SGU with an average step score you will match into IM / Family Medicine / Pediatrics without a problem. That is hardly a gamble but its hard to know that unless you have actually witnessed what goes down at these schools.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Honestly unless you have experienced the carib struggles how do you even argue against someone who has lived the experience.... The arguments are formulated purely on anecdotal knowledge. You hear from so many failures but not from the many more success stories.

I advocate for carib because people deserve a second chance.

"Haphazard Clinical Rotations all over the country" Absolutely False. The vast majority do their rotations at 1 or 2 hospitals in nyc or jersey. Setting up 4th year electives are easy as you can go anywhere in SGUs network of hospitals of which there are plenty in New York / Jersey. There are many frustrations in the clinical years but not being able to complete your clinical rotations is not one of them at SGU or Ross.

The reality is a huge % of people drop out early (prior to clinicals) because they party and continue whatever habits got them there in the first place. Those people took the risk and paid the price. People act like it is such a huge gamble.... but the people that work hard day in and day out and ultimately fail to match in the end.... is a small minority (and I agree that is very unfortunate).

Of those who fail to match many go on to match the following year. Some failed at matching into a competitive field and there are many people with Visa issues of which it is more difficult to match.

Expand your IM / Primary care comment to include psych, pediatrics, pmnr and pathology with a good chunk going into ER as well. That data is widely available.

If you are of average intelligence and do average from start to finish at SGU with an average step score you will match into IM / Family Medicine / Pediatrics without a problem. That is hardly a gamble but its hard to know that unless you have actually witnessed what goes down at these schools.

Dude, don't even waste your energy arguing with them. The people that are here to get real advice about this path will find the right people and reach out to them.

I'm going to PM you shortly.
 
The reality is a huge % of people drop out early (prior to clinicals) because they party and continue whatever habits got them there in the first place.
And that's exactly what I was talking about when I said they hadn't resolved their academic issues. There's no bar they have to meet to prove they have what it takes. There's no requirement or limit on getting graduate loans approved. The average MCAT of SGU is like 498 which is far below what a future doctor should be scoring.

Like I said, I'm happy that those of you who put in the work are able to find jobs and be successful. However, this school is gaming the system by luring vulnerable and financially ignorant candidates who pour in millions of dollars and end up with nothing. Just because there are a small fraction of people who succeed doesn't mean the system isn't predatory.
 
Hey I did poorly in undergrad with GPAs in the 2s but did an SMP and my GPA is now 3.66. My highest MCAT is 491 although my most recent MCAT is 489. I have plenty of ECs including shadowing, hospital employment, and a ton of volunteering. Do I have a chance of getting accepted into SGU?

Actual replies please. No "if you have a checkbook or a pulse you'll get accepted".
If you want to know whether you'll get accepted or not, you'll most likely get straight acceptance with/without AEP.

Having said this, I think before you jump the gun, you should really take the time to think about why you performed the way you did on your MCAT. You'll be doing a lot of standardized exams in medicine. In SGU alone, you're gonna be writing 4 (BSCE 1, BSCE 2 separated into 3) standardized exams (used to be 3: BSCE 1, BSCE2, CBSE). This pathway is not any easier. Mind you, these arent even the hardest exams either (you still have STEP exams) and we haven't even talked about hurdles to jump over for residency and etc. So, really, I would like to encourage you to think about why you performed the way you did and what can really help you in the long run: 2 years of medical school gauntlet vs few weeks/months of improving testing skills and retaking MCAT and getting into US med school. Your grade clearly illustrates your ability to perform well academically and its really your testing skills that need work. It would not be wise imho to miss an opportunity to enter a USMD program out of hastiness when you can have a better chance against IMG's at any field in medicine you'll choose to pursue in your future at the price of improving your test taking skills in few weeks/months.
 
And that's exactly what I was talking about when I said they hadn't resolved their academic issues. There's no bar they have to meet to prove they have what it takes. There's no requirement or limit on getting graduate loans approved. The average MCAT of SGU is like 498 which is far below what a future doctor should be scoring.

Like I said, I'm happy that those of you who put in the work are able to find jobs and be successful. However, this school is gaming the system by luring vulnerable and financially ignorant candidates who pour in millions of dollars and end up with nothing. Just because there are a small fraction of people who succeed doesn't mean the system isn't predatory.

I agree, it is predatory... but a fair opportunity. It is a business that is taking advantage of the US system of medical education which desperately needs to be revamped. Carib is most certainly a last resort and instead of Carib bashing people with firsthand experience should spread their stories.... that way people can be informed and not be "victims" blowing $$$. In a way it is a gamble on yourself.... but you hold the keys with how hard you are willing to work. It isn't luck or chance. I think that should be a choice people are allowed to make rather than stating anyone with a <500 MCAT is permanently unworthy. Life happens and you are essentially given 3 years at a very dynamic period in your life to "prove" your worthiness.

To your comment about the MCAT. I scored below average on the MCAT and scored >90th percentile on steps 1 and 2. They are 2 vastly different exams that in my opinion are not the best tools to stratify the quality of a physician. Standardization has to happen but it is idiotic how one test holds so much power in this system. And then we are shocked when stories like Dr. Death occur.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
predatory... but a fair opportunity
Predatory and fair are polar opposites. While medical education in the US has its problems, they're not the ones who opened the unlimited tap of federal student loans and drove up the price of all secondary education. Further, for-profit education systems are almost universally substandard to non-profit systems of education (DeVry, Everest, TrumpU, PragerU, etc.) It should not be legal to operate a for-profit system using taxpayer dollars to fuel their bottom line.

And then we are shocked when stories like Dr. Death occur.
Wow, not sure how you made that association. That guy was a result of extremely poor background checking and apparently no oversight whatsoever at his residency. There's never been any report of his step scores which were at least 18 years ago. Even if any of this was associated, you're using the anecdote of a single psychotic physician as proof that the entire system is broken.

This argument is mostly academic, however, since the NBME changed Step 1 to P/F. After 2022, going IMG is basically flushing money down the toilet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Predatory and fair are polar opposites. While medical education in the US has its problems, they're not the ones who opened the unlimited tap of federal student loans and drove up the price of all secondary education. Further, for-profit education systems are almost universally substandard to non-profit systems of education (DeVry, Everest, TrumpU, PragerU, etc.) It should not be legal to operate a for-profit system using taxpayer dollars to fuel their bottom line.


Wow, not sure how you made that association. That guy was a result of extremely poor background checking and apparently no oversight whatsoever at his residency. There's never been any report of his step scores which were at least 18 years ago. Even if any of this was associated, you're using the anecdote of a single psychotic physician as proof that the entire system is broken.

This argument is mostly academic, however, since the NBME changed Step 1 to P/F. After 2022, going IMG is basically flushing money down the toilet.

Dude, you don't get it. The dude above you gets it. Try and understand and maybe then you will figure out why people choose the SGU route and become successful and competent physicians.

MCAT is a tool to screen med school applications to US schools. If it were a predictor of medical school performance then you cannot possible have people who have admittedly scored low on the MCAT who do exceptionally well on STEP1. Also, MCAT is a test that benefits those who invest in test-prep. STEP1 is a strictly knowledge-based exam. You either know your stuff or you don't.

Also, comparing SGU to TrumpU is laughable. That's where you guys fail to get your points across because it becomes very evident that you are speaking from a point of bias.

As far as STEP1 becoming pass/fail, how exactly is that bad for a school like SGU? Do you think the IMG-friendly programs that every single IMG student knows to apply to will automatically stop looking at IMG's? lol STEP1 pass/fail will affect no-name Caribbean schools but I don't know many people here who actually apply to those schools. SGU is the only legitimate Caribbean program that has a proven track record.

STEP1 pass/fail just means that people have to put more time into STEP2...and that's actually how it should be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Predatory and fair are polar opposites. While medical education in the US has its problems, they're not the ones who opened the unlimited tap of federal student loans and drove up the price of all secondary education. Further, for-profit education systems are almost universally substandard to non-profit systems of education (DeVry, Everest, TrumpU, PragerU, etc.) It should not be legal to operate a for-profit system using taxpayer dollars to fuel their bottom line.


Wow, not sure how you made that association. That guy was a result of extremely poor background checking and apparently no oversight whatsoever at his residency. There's never been any report of his step scores which were at least 18 years ago. Even if any of this was associated, you're using the anecdote of a single psychotic physician as proof that the entire system is broken.

This argument is mostly academic, however, since the NBME changed Step 1 to P/F. After 2022, going IMG is basically flushing money down the toilet.

You are really blaming carib student loans for driving secondary education prices??? That is almost as absurd as the lectures residents are forced to receive about reducing bmp lab draws to reduce the financial burden of healthcare.

Why do you think it is your position to make a generalization that people who can't get into US programs should not be given a 2nd opportunity if they are willing to pay for it? It is not your position and the goal should be to promote real facts from real people who have passed / failed the caribbean system. People should realize the many hurdles they will face from people who have done it so they can make an informed decision.
 
The funny thing here is none of the anti-Caribbean crowd here would ever go up to an SGU grad and say any of this to their face lol.
 
You are really blaming carib student loans for driving secondary education prices???
No, you misunderstood. I'm blaming the school for taking advantage of a broken loan system and fueling their bottom line with taxpayer dollars. My position is that if you're truly improved, you can actually spend less money by doing an unofficial or official post-bacc and getting into a US MD/DO school. You're basically advocating that the 70% of people dumping their money for nothing are funding your ability to get what you want.

Dude, you don't get it. The dude above you gets it. Try and understand and maybe then you will figure out why people choose the SGU route and become successful and competent physicians.

MCAT is a tool to screen med school applications to US schools. If it were a predictor of medical school performance then you cannot possible have people who have admittedly scored low on the MCAT who do exceptionally well on STEP1. Also, MCAT is a test that benefits those who invest in test-prep. STEP1 is a strictly knowledge-based exam. You either know your stuff or you don't.

Also, comparing SGU to TrumpU is laughable. That's where you guys fail to get your points across because it becomes very evident that you are speaking from a point of bias.

As far as STEP1 becoming pass/fail, how exactly is that bad for a school like SGU? Do you think the IMG-friendly programs that every single IMG student knows to apply to will automatically stop looking at IMG's? lol STEP1 pass/fail will affect no-name Caribbean schools but I don't know many people here who actually apply to those schools. SGU is the only legitimate Caribbean program that has a proven track record.

STEP1 pass/fail just means that people have to put more time into STEP2...and that's actually how it should be.
MCAT and Step 1 have a 0.72 correlation coefficient per a 2019 study. There is no standardized test that's a perfect predictor of anything since people have different strengths and change over time. Multivariable analysis of factors associated with USMLE scores across U.S. medical schools

You make multiple claims but fail to provide any actual argument for them. SGU is for profit. TrumpU was for profit. That's the comparison I'm making and there's no denying that. SGU has a huge dropout rate.
The funny thing here is none of the anti-Caribbean crowd here would ever go up to an SGU grad and say any of this to their face lol.
I have no issue with IMG docs because I assume they know what they're doing. I'm arguing that their path to medicine is predatory and those who support it are doing so on the backs of a majority of people who do not make it through but whose taxpayer funded loans are used to pad their bottom lines.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
The funny thing here is none of the anti-Caribbean crowd here would ever go up to an SGU grad and say any of this to their face lol.
Yes I would. The took a long shot at a school preying on people who need a long shot. That doesn’t mean grads are dumb, it means matriculants took a huge risk I wouldn’t recommend
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
The majority fail?????? (that is false).... where do you derive these stats? You also assume the majority of people don't pay their student loans back. I would drop that argument because it really is a drop of water in the ocean of problems that is our healthcare system. The majority of people who do drop out do so after 1 or 2 semesters so they are not paying 250K back. The majority of people who make it through the basic sciences (over 50%) end up matching into residency. For example. In my class 750 made it off the island to clinicals. Our match list had some 520ish people on it (not including those who wanted to hide their results). Also not including a good chunk who matched the following cycle. Also not including those few that did not want to do residency.

Clearly you have been fortunate and not had to deal with going to the carib. Medicine is so competitive that if you tarnish your record often times it is impossible to get another opportunity. Masters / Post Bacc programs are not all created equal and many masters degrees are easy and much less standardized across schools. Getting As in masters programs like genetics, MPH, etc are virtually useless unless you are very borderline at getting into the US. The one masters program that has become standardized is the masters in biomed science which in a way is like your argument for going carib. A completely useless expensive masters degree that gives you a chance to get into med school of which a good chunk fail and are left with nothing but student loans.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Yes I would. The took a long shot at a school preying on people who need a long shot. That doesn’t mean grads are dumb, it means matriculants took a huge risk I wouldn’t recommend


I guess try and look at it as maybe the school is giving the student a legitimate opportunity.
 
No, you misunderstood. I'm blaming the school for taking advantage of a broken loan system and fueling their bottom line with taxpayer dollars. My position is that if you're truly improved, you can actually spend less money by doing an unofficial or official post-bacc and getting into a US MD/DO school. You're basically advocating that the 70% of people dumping their money for nothing are funding your ability to get what you want.

The problem with this, whether you realize it or not, is that is not YOUR decision to make. When you can see beyond that is when you just might be able to see the whole world differently as well!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The majority fail?????? (that is false).... where do you derive these stats? You also assume the majority of people don't pay their student loans back. I would drop that argument because it really is a drop of water in the ocean of problems that is our healthcare system. The majority of people who do drop out do so after 1 or 2 semesters so they are not paying 250K back. The majority of people who make it through the basic sciences (over 50%) end up matching into residency. For example. In my class 750 made it off the island to clinicals. Our match list had some 520ish people on it (not including those who wanted to hide their results). Also not including a good chunk who matched the following cycle. Also not including those few that did not want to do residency.

Clearly you have been fortunate and not had to deal with going to the carib. Medicine is so competitive that if you tarnish your record often times it is impossible to get another opportunity. Masters / Post Bacc programs are not all created equal and many masters degrees are easy and much less standardized across schools. Getting As in masters programs like genetics, MPH, etc are virtually useless unless you are very borderline at getting into the US. The one masters program that has become standardized is the masters in biomed science which in a way is like your argument for going carib. A completely useless expensive masters degree that gives you a chance to get into med school of which a good chunk fail and are left with nothing but student loans.

The funny thing is there is an "adcom" here that posted that "an MS in biomedical sciences is useless." Funny thing is these Caribbean-haters, as I call them lol, are advocating that you go down that exact same route and waste tens of thousands of dollars on a degree that is, according to the "adcom," useless and may or may not get you into medical school stateside. Catch-22.

Bottom line is not everyone is going to a US medical school but that doesn't mean you can't become a doctor by taking another route.

I mean how many people studied medicine in Mexico, India, Italy, Ireland, and are practicing today? Were they duped as well?
 
I guess try and look at it as maybe the school is giving the student a legitimate opportunity.
If by legitimate you mean legitimately as high a chance of never getting a residency after $300k as getting one, then yes. Legitimate chance
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Top