Chances for IM residency

[Valsalva83]

Hello,
I am a DO student interested in IM. Needed some advice for residency cycle this year. I have to be honest and say I am not the best test taker. I have been a decent student--all A's and B's in preclinical years. High-pass and Honored my medicine rotations in 3rd year. Good comments from all my preceptors, good recommendations, some research and presentations in med school. In top 25% of the class My board scores:

Comlex Level 1: Attempt 1- 395, Attempt 2- 460-480's
Comlex Level 2: Passed on first try - 420-440

I know not the best scores, but what are my chances for AOA IM programs? How many should I apply to? Should I even attempt to do ACGME FM or IM? Besides my low board scores, rest of the application does not have red flags. What do you suggest I do? Any help is appreciated. thank you.

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[hallowmann]

If you want FM also, applying ACGME FM or low-tier community IM wouldn't hurt anything except for your wallet.

I think if you apply to a LOT of programs (80-100 may be a bit much, but I would do it to make sure I got enough invites to match), I don't think you'll have a problem. Unfortunately, a lot will filter you out with the failure, as I'm sure you know, and unless they explicitly mention it on their website, you won't know which will do that.

 

[ThreeCheers]

Looking at charting outcomes, I think focusing on AOA residencies is your best bet unless you have all passing USMLE scores. I would apply broadly just to be safe. The match is not the time to try to save money.

Do you have auditions lined up for IM this year?

 

[Valsalva83]

Looking at charting outcomes, I think focusing on AOA residencies is your best bet unless you have all passing USMLE scores. I would apply broadly just to be safe. The match is not the time to try to save money.

Do you have auditions lined up for IM this year?

Yes I am doing 2 auditions for IM and one for FM so hopefully get some luck there. I did not take the usmle. Would you suggest applying to 60 aoa IM or more than that?

 

[Valsalva83]

If you want FM also, applying ACGME FM or low-tier community IM wouldn't hurt anything except for your wallet.

I think if you apply to a LOT of programs (80-100 may be a bit much, but I would do it to make sure I got enough invites to match), I don't think you'll have a problem. Unfortunately, a lot will filter you out with the failure, as I'm sure you know, and unless they explicitly mention it on their website, you won't know which will do that.

Should I consider doing aoa family med or just acgme FM along with aoa Im?

 

[hallowmann]

Should I consider doing aoa family med or just acgme FM along with aoa Im?

Its really up to you. There's no harm in applying to some AOA FM programs, because you could always rank them after the IM programs. I also suspect that the vast majority of AOA FM programs will make the transition.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Hello,
I am a DO student interested in IM. Needed some advice for residency cycle this year. I have to be honest and say I am not the best test taker. I have been a decent student--all A's and B's in preclinical years. High-pass and Honored my medicine rotations in 3rd year. Good comments from all my preceptors, good recommendations, some research and presentations in med school. In top 25% of the class My board scores:

Comlex Level 1: Attempt 1- 395, Attempt 2- 460-480's
Comlex Level 2: Passed on first try - 420-440

I know not the best scores, but what are my chances for AOA IM programs? How many should I apply to? Should I even attempt to do ACGME FM or IM? Besides my low board scores, rest of the application does not have red flags. What do you suggest I do? Any help is appreciated. thank you.

I mean the match isn't the time to save money, but you still need to apply smart. You have no USMLE, a COMLEX 1 failure, a mediocre re-take and did even worse on COMLEX 2. By virtue of your board failure alone you won't make it past the screening parameters for most ACGME programs, low-tier or not. I'd focus my energy on crushing your auditions and networking hard within the AOA residency sphere.

 

[hallowmann]

I mean the match isn't the time to save money, but you still need to apply smart. You have no USMLE, a COMLEX 1 failure, a mediocre re-take and did even worse on COMLEX 2. By virtue of your board failure alone you won't make it past the screening parameters for most ACGME programs, low-tier or not. I'd focus my energy on crushing your auditions and networking hard within the AOA residency sphere.

Yeah, I don't agree with this. There are actually plenty of ACGME programs that still look at people with COMLEX only and one failure. They're not great programs and not in great areas, but they exist.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Yeah, I don't agree with this. There are actually plenty of ACGME programs that still look at people with COMLEX only and one failure. They're not great programs and not in great areas, but they exist.

One or the other perhaps but both no USMLE and a COMLEX failure? idk man. Those aren't odds I'd bet on. A quick glance at Charting Outcomes shows 1/4 applicants w his scores failed to match ACGME FM and more than half failed to match ACGME IM, never mind that he's got a failure which is a massive red flag in and of itself aside from the mediocre scores.

Can he match? maybe. But the odds aren't necessarily in his favour.

 

[W19]

Yeah, I don't agree with this. There are actually plenty of ACGME programs that still look at people with COMLEX only and one failure. They're not great programs and not in great areas, but they exist.

Can you name 10?

 

[W19]

Should I consider doing aoa family med or just acgme FM along with aoa Im?

If you have the $$$, apply to ~70 AOA FM and ~100 ACGME IM... Just use AOA FM as a back up if you really want ACGME IM.

 

[hallowmann]

One or the other perhaps but both no USMLE and a COMLEX failure? idk man. Those aren't odds I'd bet on. A quick glance at Charting Outcomes shows 1/4 applicants w his scores failed to match ACGME FM and more than half failed to match ACGME IM, never mind that he's got a failure which is a massive red flag in and of itself aside from the mediocre scores.

Can he match? maybe. But the odds aren't necessarily in his favour.

I get what you're saying, but for one, I never said he should bet on anything. I said he should apply. You said he shouldn't bother. You said it yourself, 75% of DOs with his scores matched ACGME FM and 50% of DOs with his scores matched ACGME IM. That to me doesn't sound like enough not to even apply. If you look at my reply, I said apply broadly, including for ACGME FM, because I know how the application process for that field works. If they interview well, I honestly think they have a decent shot especially if they apply strategically to those programs that will consider them.

Can you name 10?

Programs I've actually heard of people interviewing at with 1 failure.

FM: PA, NY, OH
-http://www.lvhn.org/research_and_education/residents/residency_programs/family_medicine
-https://www.ahn.org/education/graduate-medical-education/residencies/family-medicine-residency
-http://gme.slhn.org/Residencies/Family-Medicine-Residency-Warren
-https://www.excelahealth.org/Careers/Family-Medicine-Residency
-https://www.guthrie.org/family-medicine-residency-program
-http://thewrightcenter.org/graduate-medical-education/residency/family-medicine-regional-network/
-http://www.pinnaclehealth.org/lititz/careers/for-physicians/family-practice-residency-program
-https://www.adena.org/inside/paccar/page.dT/fm-residency
-http://www.trihealth.com/research-and-education/education/graduate-medical-education/family-medicine-residency/
-https://www.ohiohealth.com/medical-education/residencies/family-medicine-riverside-methodist/

Listen, there are a lot more FM programs that consider people with 1 failure and COMLEX only. I know that because I was obsessive about looking at requirements for FM programs when I applied. Easily 1/4 or 1/3 of the ~150 FM programs I looked into while making my list considered applicants with 1 failure (or "no more than 2 attempts"). Sure when I saw that, it said to me this program is a less competitive one, but that's exactly what OP is looking for, and less competitive doesn't necessarily mean "bad training".

For IM, I admit not to know as much, but here are a few I recall hearing about:

IM:

-http://www.kentri.org/graduate-medical-education/internal-medicine.cfm
-http://gme.slhn.org/Residencies/Internal-Medicine-Residency-ACGME
-http://www.pinnaclehealth.org/lititz/careers/for-physicians/internal-medicine
-http://grandstrandmed.com/professionals/graduate-medical-education/internal-medicine/

Again, I'm sure there are more. IM is a broad specialty with programs literally from the most competitive to less competitive than the vast majority of FM programs.

 

[ortnakas]

If you have the $$$, apply to ~70 AOA FM and ~100 ACGME IM... Just use AOA FM as a back up if you really want ACGME IM.

Are you made of money?

I agree OP should apply broadly, but 170+ programs seems unnecessary and unrealistic.

 

[W19]

Are you made of money?

I agree OP should apply broadly, but 170+ programs seems unnecessary and unrealistic.

Nope... The way I see it is that spending 3k to get a residency spot is a bleep to what you already spent to get the MD/DO degree.

 

[midmack]

If you have the $$$, apply to ~70 AOA FM and ~100 ACGME IM... Just use AOA FM as a back up if you really want ACGME IM.

This also isn't feasible because the AOA match is before the ACGME match. AOA needs to be your "reach" and the ACGME programs need to be your "backup" if you are trying to work the system...

 

[W19]

This also isn't feasible because the AOA match is before the ACGME match. AOA needs to be your "reach" and the ACGME programs need to be your "backup" if you are trying to work the system...

It can be... If OP got >=7 invites for IM ACGME, he/she can withdraw from the AOA match...

 

[Valsalva83]

I get what you're saying, but for one, I never said he should bet on anything. I said he should apply. You said he shouldn't bother. You said it yourself, 75% of DOs with his scores matched ACGME FM and 50% of DOs with his scores matched ACGME IM. That to me doesn't sound like enough not to even apply. If you look at my reply, I said apply broadly, including for ACGME FM, because I know how the application process for that field works. If they interview well, I honestly think they have a decent shot especially if they apply strategically to those programs that will consider them.



Programs I've actually heard of people interviewing at with 1 failure.

FM: PA, NY, OH
-http://www.lvhn.org/research_and_education/residents/residency_programs/family_medicine
-https://www.ahn.org/education/graduate-medical-education/residencies/family-medicine-residency
-http://gme.slhn.org/Residencies/Family-Medicine-Residency-Warren
-https://www.excelahealth.org/Careers/Family-Medicine-Residency
-https://www.guthrie.org/family-medicine-residency-program
-http://thewrightcenter.org/graduate-medical-education/residency/family-medicine-regional-network/
-http://www.pinnaclehealth.org/lititz/careers/for-physicians/family-practice-residency-program
-https://www.adena.org/inside/paccar/page.dT/fm-residency
-http://www.trihealth.com/research-and-education/education/graduate-medical-education/family-medicine-residency/
-https://www.ohiohealth.com/medical-education/residencies/family-medicine-riverside-methodist/

Listen, there are a lot more FM programs that consider people with 1 failure and COMLEX only. I know that because I was obsessive about looking at requirements for FM programs when I applied. Easily 1/4 or 1/3 of the ~150 FM programs I looked into while making my list considered applicants with 1 failure (or "no more than 2 attempts"). Sure when I saw that, it said to me this program is a less competitive one, but that's exactly what OP is looking for, and less competitive doesn't necessarily mean "bad training".

For IM, I admit not to know as much, but here are a few I recall hearing about:

IM:

-http://www.kentri.org/graduate-medical-education/internal-medicine.cfm
-http://gme.slhn.org/Residencies/Internal-Medicine-Residency-ACGME
-http://www.pinnaclehealth.org/lititz/careers/for-physicians/internal-medicine
-http://grandstrandmed.com/professionals/graduate-medical-education/internal-medicine/

Again, I'm sure there are more. IM is a broad specialty with programs literally from the most competitive to less competitive than the vast majority of FM programs.

Thank you for the list. Right now I have applied to more than 70 aoa IM programs, would you consider additional aoa IM? or now focus on acgme IM? I am also considering acgme FM. I have applied to 30 AOA FM right now.

 

[hallowmann]

Thank you for the list. Right now I have applied to more than 70 aoa IM programs, would you consider additional aoa IM? or now focus on acgme IM? I am also considering acgme FM. I have applied to 30 AOA FM right now.

100 isn't a bad number. If you want to apply to more, I'd limit it to 20-30 in one field, like ACGME FM or something. >30 it starts getting too expensive given potential return. I wouldn't apply to more IM programs. 70 is more than enough.

 

[Valsalva83]

thank you, what should be my target number of applications for acgme IM programs? I will submit the acgme ones as soon as I can on Sept 6. I know I am a decent interviewer, I am just hoping to get some interviews.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Valsalva83]

One or the other perhaps but both no USMLE and a COMLEX failure? idk man. Those aren't odds I'd bet on. A quick glance at Charting Outcomes shows 1/4 applicants w his scores failed to match ACGME FM and more than half failed to match ACGME IM, never mind that he's got a failure which is a massive red flag in and of itself aside from the mediocre scores.

Can he match? maybe. But the odds aren't necessarily in his favour.

Do you think I have any shot in acgme FM?

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Do you think I have any shot in acgme FM?

You probably do if you apply broadly and are willing to go literally anywhere