Chances thread applying this year

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[GoGetEM]

You should do EM rotations if possible. Doing consults in the ED on other services is not emergency medicine.

 

[Turfandbuff]

hi guys, what about my chance to get match next year?
IMG with J1 visa, i got match in prelim IM and will get rotation in ER to get SLOR.
my cred Stp 1 250+, step 2 250+, CS pass first attempt..

 

[DoctorMedic]

hi guys, what about my chance to get match next year?
IMG with J1 visa, i got match in prelim IM and will get rotation in ER to get SLOR.
my cred Stp 1 250+, step 2 250+, CS pass first attempt..

Get a strong SLOR and you shouldget some interviews with those scores.

 

[medicsb]

So, I've honored all courses and I am AOA. I got a 287 on step one and 288 on step 2 (WTF, I thought it'd be higher - so disappointed). I have 23 publications, but only 3 are in JAMA as a lead author, and only 2 in NEJM as a lead... On a recent physical, my pulse-ox was 103%.

I'm worried, do you think I'll get in?

 

[joeDO2]

So, I've honored all courses and I am AOA. I got a 287 on step one and 288 on step 2 (WTF, I thought it'd be higher - so disappointed). I have 23 publications, but only 3 are in JAMA as a lead author, and only 2 in NEJM as a lead... On a recent physical, my pulse-ox was 103%.

I'm worried, do you think I'll get in?

its going to be close. i've heard most program directors don't want to use the score converter to figure out what your actual po2 value is.

 

[NYEMMED]

So, I've honored all courses and I am AOA. I got a 287 on step one and 288 on step 2 (WTF, I thought it'd be higher - so disappointed). I have 23 publications, but only 3 are in JAMA as a lead author, and only 2 in NEJM as a lead... On a recent physical, my pulse-ox was 103%.

I'm worried, do you think I'll get in?

That pulse ox of 103 is pretty low, this may end your application... LOL

 

[Siggy]

So, I've honored all courses and I am AOA. I got a 287 on step one and 288 on step 2 (WTF, I thought it'd be higher - so disappointed). I have 23 publications, but only 3 are in JAMA as a lead author, and only 2 in NEJM as a lead... On a recent physical, my pulse-ox was 103%.

I'm worried, do you think I'll get in?

Congrats... all DO students are members of the AOA... and the minimum passing score for COMLEX is 400, so congrats on failing both level 1 and 2.

 

[sanityonleave]

Congrats... all DO students are members of the AOA... and the minimum passing score for COMLEX is 400, so congrats on failing both level 1 and 2.

I'm gonna say... I was tired. Yea, that's it. I was tired.

 

[NYEMMED]

😕😕

.... AOA in this case stands for Alpha Omega Alpha, the honor society for allopathic students.

And one assumes he was talking about Step 1 and Step 2. Clearly this was satire about the rash of "what are my chances?" threads recently by people with stats that clearly give them an excellent chance to match. I didn't see the OP's post before they edited it, but I'd assume it was in the same vein -- hence the joke.

I assumed siggy was also joking, not being serious

 

[Siggy]

😕😕

.... AOA in this case stands for Alpha Omega Alpha, the honor society for allopathic students.

And one assumes he was talking about Step 1 and Step 2. Clearly this was satire about the rash of "what are my chances?" threads recently by people with stats that clearly give them an excellent chance to match. I didn't see the OP's post before they edited it, but I'd assume it was in the same vein -- hence the joke.

 

[Doctor Bob]

Congrats... all DO students are members of the AOA... and the minimum passing score for COMLEX is 400, so congrats on failing both level 1 and 2.

Ok this made me laugh.
Well played sir, well played.

 

[Dharma]

😕😕

.... AOA in this case stands for Alpha Omega Alpha, the honor society for allopathic students.

And one assumes he was talking about Step 1 and Step 2. Clearly this was satire about the rash of "what are my chances?" threads recently by people with stats that clearly give them an excellent chance to match. I didn't see the OP's post before they edited it, but I'd assume it was in the same vein -- hence the joke.

Swoosh.... right over your head!

 

[NYEMMED]

Swoosh.... right over your head!

👍 HAHA Definitely

 

[NERDY]

hi guys, what about my chance to get match next year?
IMG with J1 visa, i got match in prelim IM and will get rotation in ER to get SLOR.
my cred Stp 1 250+, step 2 250+, CS pass first attempt..

Apply broad, especially at places that take IMGs and grads from your school ( for example Ohio, NY, Detroit). Make sure you have electives/easier rotations/vacation in the winter months so you can interview.

 

[amikhchi]

Will be applying EM this round.

250 step 1
haven't yet taken step 2 CK yet
CS taken but no results yet

have a strong LoR from Surgery and Medicine and will get a SLOR in August

US citizen from carib school

This is a serious post, because it seems EM has become more competitive in the recent years, and while my school does match some every year, considering there weren't any spots open this match (or at least that's what I was told) and i'm at the IMG disadvantage already, I was wondering what you guys thought.

 

[pulsetone]

So you know, there are some programs that require 2 SLOEs. I'd recommend either getting a second one or checking program requirements carefully so that you don't waste applications.

Will be applying EM this round.
have a strong LoR from Surgery and Medicine and will get a SLOR in August

 

[le loup]

So you know, there are some programs that require 2 SLOEs. I'd recommend either getting a second one or checking program requirements carefully so that you don't waste applications.

can you get 2 SLORs (or are they typically a generaly overview of how you did throughout the whole rotation with input from everyone) from the same program, like say you only had one EM rotation set up for 4th year?

I realize it would be better to have 2 but just in case I cant get another EM rotation.

 

[Doctor Bob]

can you get 2 SLORs (or are they typically a generaly overview of how you did throughout the whole rotation with input from everyone) from the same program, like say you only had one EM rotation set up for 4th year?

I realize it would be better to have 2 but just in case I cant get another EM rotation.

No. A properly completed SLOR is done by the program director or medical student coordinator. You should only be getting one per program.

The SLOR (now called the SLOE; standardized letter of evaluation) is a way for a program to communicate to other programs how well you did compared with other rotators. It has information like how well you did relative to other students, probability of matching based on previous year's data, etc.

If you have 2 from the same program the best case scenario is they say the same thing. The worst case scenario is they don't agree with each other and then other programs can't use them in the manner they were intended.

 

[DoctorTinyCat]

FWIW, I didn't do an away and therefore I only had SLORs from my home program. One was a departmental SLOR, the other two were from faculty members that had known me for 4 years. It was never an issue, although perhaps because they were very strong letters. Several of my classmates were in a similar situation and they didn't have problems either (at least, we all matched).

To the above poster, ALL of your letters should be SLORs. They won't care what surgery or medicine thinks of you. EM is very particular about this. You should do everything within your power to secure 3 SLORs, especially as an FMG. All FMGs should plan on applying very broadly. (Seriously consider shotgunning to every program, or at least to every program that has ever taken an FMG.)

 

[pulsetone]

I had 2 SLORs and a surgery letter and was perfectly fine. I also was unable to do an away and had one department compilation letter from the PD and one from a faculty advisor.

If you're going to go the 1 PD and 1 faculty route, I would recommend trying to find someone who has been around for a while (and writes more than one letter a year) instead of the newest faculty in the department.

 

[ehmjay1]

Hey guys I need your help. I scored a 219 on step 1. I'm going to med school here in the states, but I'm really beginning to think I want to do EM. I'm pretty scared as the residency gets more and more competitive each year, I just want to know what I can do to increase my chances of matching? Do I even still have a chance?

 

[deleted547339]

Hey guys I need your help. I scored a 219 on step 1. I'm going to med school here in the states, but I'm really beginning to think I want to do EM. I'm pretty scared as the residency gets more and more competitive each year, I just want to know what I can do to increase my chances of matching? Do I even still have a chance?

You'll be fine. Chill. Do exactly what you think you should: work hard during third year clerkships, start getting to know the EM guys/gals at your school, work hard on step2, do some externships where you show up early, stay late and are always eager to volunteer, apply broadly, get a good mentor and be realistic.

Breathe. It's getting tougher, but it's not derm or neurosurg.

 

[Iride]

No. A properly completed SLOR is done by the program director or medical student coordinator. You should only be getting one per program.

The SLOR (now called the SLOE; standardized letter of evaluation) is a way for a program to communicate to other programs how well you did compared with other rotators. It has information like how well you did relative to other students, probability of matching based on previous year's data, etc.

If you have 2 from the same program the best case scenario is they say the same thing. The worst case scenario is they don't agree with each other and then other programs can't use them in the manner they were intended.

I pretty much completely disagree with this. I understand what you are saying, but at the same time, it is a pretty common thing to have ATLEAST 2 SLORs (SLOE's now I guess) from the same place. Not everyone can do an away for one reason or another and unfortunately it is VERY true that programs pretty much only care about SLORs/SLOEs. For this reason it is incredibly common to have a departmental AND single author EM faculty SLOEs from the same institution. In fact the people at my school that didn't do this and waited for there second SLOR to come in from an away rotationo, really seemed to have a lot more trouble getting interviews compared to people like me who had 2 from home and then had all my interviews scheduled and half-way completed before my second departmental SLOR came in from my away.

So in short, I would get 2 in BEFORE your application goes off if at all possible or as soon as you can by any means necessary.

Just my 2 cents from going through this whole process last year, good luck everyone!

 

[buffywannabe]

Lets throw another one out there.

US student going to top 40 med school
Step 1: 220's
Will have CS by application time
Will have CK by interviews, practices indicate 230's+ and intend to study more
Grades: Mediocre with an upward trend
Will have 2 SLOE's by application and 3 by interviews
Lots of leadership, teaching, volunteering blah blah blah (they probably don't care)
Spanish fluency level 2 (will be level 1 after rotation abroad)

I plan to apply to 60 programs, hope to interview at 20 and rank ALL OF THEM.
If I don't match I will try to second match to peds and then fellowship in EM.

What do ya'll think?

 

[johhnybgood]

Buffy,

You are not going to have a problem matching if all goes as planned. No one can guarantee where you will match on your rank list if it goes 15+ or longer, as too many intangibles are involved in that which are completely out of your control. But you will match and will have a career in EM. Apply broadly, rank the programs how you like them and let the chips fall where they may. Good luck and don't forget to enjoy the process.

 

[Iride]

Buffy,

You are not going to have a problem matching if all goes as planned. No one can guarantee where you will match on your rank list if it goes 15+ or longer, as too many intangibles are involved in that which are completely out of your control. But you will match and will have a career in EM. Apply broadly, rank the programs how you like them and let the chips fall where they may. Good luck and don't forget to enjoy the process.

Yep, I agree. I also think you shouldn't commit yourself to 20 interviews ranking them all..... I think if you get anywhere near 20 interviews (which based on your post seems reasonable) then you will be perfectly fine going on 12-15ish and save about $1000 on those final 5 or so without any worries.

 

[EM2013]

I would go on the 20 and rank them all. Will save you a lot of unnecessary bugging out between the end of interviews and Match Day. Worst thing would be to not match and then wonder "could I have done something differently?" Re-application is a nightmare and the rates of matching the second time around plummet drastically.

 

[Iride]

I would go on the 20 and rank them all. Will save you a lot of unnecessary bugging out between the end of interviews and Match Day. Worst thing would be to not match and then wonder "could I have done something differently?" Re-application is a nightmare and the rates of matching the second time around plummet drastically.

I can't say I don't see your point..... but my point is that if he/she gets 20 interviews, I almost guarantee they match in your top 10.... in fact I bet statistically the odds of this are 95% or more

 

[le loup]

ill throw my hat in now!

DO Student
step 1 low 230s, comlex 620s
top quartile
3rd year all HP and Honors
SSP member (the DO version of AOA)
No red flags on application
average extracurriculars
no research
will have one SLOR in by application time, hopefully another in october

I want an MD EM program, preferable on or near a coast somewhere (doesnt have to be west) - i plan on applying broadly however

thoughts?

 

[sylvanthus]

ill throw my hat in now!

DO Student
step 1 low 230s, comlex 620s
top quartile
3rd year all HP and Honors
SSP member (the DO version of AOA)
No red flags on application
average extracurriculars
no research
will have one SLOR in by application time, hopefully another in october

I want an MD EM program, preferable on or near a coast somewhere (doesnt have to be west) - i plan on applying broadly however

thoughts?

Take step 2 and apply to a bunch of programs and youll be fine.

 

[Siggy]

Ok, serious question time.

My first EM rotation is August to September 13th (followed by 2 away EM rotations, but my July - August rotation fell through). This means that my first SLOR is going to come a week or two after the ACGME applications open up. However, the AOA application opens up to programs tomorrow (July 15th).

Since my first SLOR essentially is going to be 2 months after the AOA applications open up, how screwed am I?

(Step 1: 214, Level 1: 506, repeated a year. 3rd year grades: 6HP (including an IM and surg), 4P, Step IIs in early August. Applying both AOA and ACGME, rotating at 2 AOAs and a DO friendly ACGME).

 

[ensuii]

Ok, serious question time.

My first EM rotation is August to September 13th (followed by 2 away EM rotations, but my July - August rotation fell through). This means that my first SLOR is going to come a week or two after the ACGME applications open up. However, the AOA application opens up to programs tomorrow (July 15th).

Since my first SLOR essentially is going to be 2 months after the AOA applications open up, how screwed am I?

(Step 1: 214, Level 1: 506, repeated a year. 3rd year grades: 6HP (including an IM and surg), 4P, Step IIs in early August. Applying both AOA and ACGME, rotating at 2 AOAs and a DO friendly ACGME).

How many ACGME programs are you planning on applying to? You have to apply to enough to feel comfortable getting 7-10+ interviews. Even then it'll still probably be a risk to forego the AOA match to do the ACGME match. I'm not really sure if it's worth applying to both matches honestly...I'd concentrate your time and resources on one or the other. You're probably more likely to match at AOA programs. How badly do you want a 3yr residency instead of a 4yr? (Assuming location, etc factors don't exist for you).

 

[Siggy]

How badly do you want a 3yr residency instead of a 4yr? (Assuming location, etc factors don't exist for you).

Not enough of a preference to not apply to a place. I'd prefer a 3 year residency, but I'm not in a position to have that preference. While I've got some red flags that's going to hurt my ACGME application, my ACGME application is going to be much more complete when it comes time to apply ACGME. As far as how many, I'm not sure, but I'm going to be realistic with the ones I do apply to both due to red flags and being a DO student.

Ideally, I'd like to stay on the West Coast, and there's a couple DO friendly residencies out here, but we'll see how it goes. Thankfully, the CA DO residency is my core.

 

[sylvanthus]

Apply to both matches and when you get enough interviews you can start cancelling some.

 

[Doctor Bob]

I pretty much completely disagree with this.

So it goes. I can only speak to how we score applications at the place I work... and how we scored them at the last place I worked (both EM residency sites). There certainly is no grand national standard.

But at the places I've worked the consensus has been...

It is perfectly acceptable to get a SLOE from a site, plus a second individual letter from that same site.

It looks odd to get a SLOE from a site, then a second SLOE from an individual at that same site.

 

[deleted547339]

So it goes. I can only speak to how we score applications at the place I work... and how we scored them at the last place I worked (both EM residency sites). There certainly is no grand national standard.

But at the places I've worked the consensus has been...

It is perfectly acceptable to get a SLOE from a site, plus a second individual letter from that same site.

It looks odd to get a SLOE from a site, then a second SLOE from an individual at that same site.

This probably makes sense to someone "in the know" who has been around academic EM for a while; but when I started 4th year I had no idea I wanted to do EM, all of this SLOR business was completely new to me and I had no idea what was going on. I feel like on the other side it's pretty obvious, but I think people on the admissions side of this should be pretty forgiving as the entire process is rather convoluted and a little difficult to navigate.

 

[jkmph]

It is perfectly acceptable to get a SLOE from a site, plus a second individual letter from that same site.

It looks odd to get a SLOE from a site, then a second SLOE from an individual at that same site.

Just to make sure I understand what you're saying, I'm going to paraphrase.

SLOE + LOR from the same site is ok. SLOE + SLOE from the same site is odd. Is that correct? Can you elaborate as to why?

 

[link2swim06]

Thoughts?

Lower tier US allopathic school

Preclinical grade: mostly B+/Bs with a few C+'s, no failed classes
3rd year grades: almost all B+s
In middle third of class.
Step 1: 199
Step 2 CS: results in august
Step 2 CK: last nbme practice test 2 weeks ago was in the 240s -- taking it august 1st
Dean letter: According to my dean it will be 'very positive'.
No red flags and average extra-circulars.

Planning home rotation and away rotation.

Willing to go anywhere for residency. Willing to apply everywhere if needed.

Thoughts?

 

[winkleweizen]

Thoughts?

Lower tier US allopathic school

Preclinical grade: mostly B+/Bs with a few C+'s, no failed classes
3rd year grades: almost all B+s
In middle third of class.
Step 1: 199
Step 2 CS: results in august
Step 2 CK: last nbme practice test 2 weeks ago was in the 240s -- taking it august 1st
Dean letter: According to my dean it will be 'very positive'.
No red flags and average extra-circulars.

Planning home rotation and away rotation.

Willing to go anywhere for residency. Willing to apply everywhere if needed.

Thoughts?

That step 1 will hurt you, but like everyone else if your step 2. Is good and you have good slots you should get interviews as long as you don't apply to just Cali programs or the "big" name programs

 

[dotcb]

Thoughts?

Lower tier US allopathic school

Preclinical grade: mostly B+/Bs with a few C+'s, no failed classes
3rd year grades: almost all B+s
In middle third of class.
Step 1: 199
Step 2 CS: results in august
Step 2 CK: last nbme practice test 2 weeks ago was in the 240s -- taking it august 1st
Dean letter: According to my dean it will be 'very positive'.
No red flags and average extra-circulars.

Planning home rotation and away rotation.

Willing to go anywhere for residency. Willing to apply everywhere if needed.

Thoughts?

I interview applicants for our residency. I'd say you have a low chance of matching in EM based on your scores and grades. You should have a back up plan.

 

[link2swim06]

I interview applicants for our residency. I'd say you have a low chance of matching in EM based on your scores and grades. You should have a back up plan.

Even a 250+ step 2 will not make up for my step 1?

 

[EM2013]

Thoughts?

Lower tier US allopathic school

Preclinical grade: mostly B+/Bs with a few C+'s, no failed classes
3rd year grades: almost all B+s
In middle third of class.
Step 1: 199
Step 2 CS: results in august
Step 2 CK: last nbme practice test 2 weeks ago was in the 240s -- taking it august 1st
Dean letter: According to my dean it will be 'very positive'.
No red flags and average extra-circulars.

Planning home rotation and away rotation.

Willing to go anywhere for residency. Willing to apply everywhere if needed.

Thoughts?

The step 1 will probably get you electronically screened out at a lot, if not most places. What is "B+" in clinicals - is that equivalent to "high pass?" I agree - I would say you have a low probability of matching. Best bet it is to apply everywhere and have a back-up. Seriously though, if you can get your home place to really like you I think that would be your best shot. People like having a known quantity, even if their step 1 scores are 20 points higher than someone else's that they have no idea who that person is.

 

[link2swim06]

The step 1 will probably get you electronically screened out at a lot, if not most places. What is "B+" in clinicals - is that equivalent to "high pass?" I agree - I would say you have a low probability of matching. Best bet it is to apply everywhere and have a back-up. Seriously though, if you can get your home place to really like you I think that would be your best shot. People like having a known quantity, even if their step 1 scores are 20 points higher than someone else's that they have no idea who that person is.

Yep B+ is high pass. I don't why our school uses letter grades.

 

[spelledout]

Just to make sure I understand what you're saying, I'm going to paraphrase.

SLOE + LOR from the same site is ok. SLOE + SLOE from the same site is odd. Is that correct? Can you elaborate as to why?

That is correct. The easiest way to think about it is to remember a SLOR (SLOE) is supposed to be a standardized evaluation that tries to be objective. If you get two SLOEs, they should theoretically be the same. The SLOE is supposed to compare you to a historical data set within your institution and you as one individual should not change from one rotation to the next.

The LOR from an individual is different. The LOR is from someone you know well, such as a personal or research mentor, who can attest to how awesome you are aside from the clinical skills, interest, and aptitude for EM. It's basically the same as a LOR from anyone else but it's from EM so it just shows more interest.

 

[Doctor Bob]

This probably makes sense to someone "in the know" who has been around academic EM for a while; but when I started 4th year I had no idea I wanted to do EM, all of this SLOR business was completely new to me and I had no idea what was going on. I feel like on the other side it's pretty obvious, but I think people on the admissions side of this should be pretty forgiving as the entire process is rather convoluted and a little difficult to navigate.

Well sure; by the time decision making comes around people usually have lots of letters from lots of places. The LORs aren't usually a determining factor when it comes to deciding on offering an interview or not. They come in to play later in the process when we're putting together our rank list. That doesn't happen until late in the cycle by which time most people have been able to gather more LORs.

Just to make sure I understand what you're saying, I'm going to paraphrase.

SLOE + LOR from the same site is ok. SLOE + SLOE from the same site is odd. Is that correct? Can you elaborate as to why?

Sure. The purpose of a SLOE is to be an objective evaluation of an applicant's performance on a rotation. It asks questions about how this applicant did in relation to previous rotators, probability of matching based on past trends, and so forth.

If the SLOE is filled out properly and you get two from the same location they should say the same thing, because the evaluators should be looking at the same objective data. So in the best case scenario you get two forms that say the same thing (just done by different people). But I would assume they would say the same thing because they're looking at the same performance.

What usually happens though (when people get two SLOEs from the same site) is that they disagree with each other. One evaluator puts a person in one quartile while another evaluator puts them in a different quartile. Or they give differing answers to the probability ot matching based on past data question. So now I'm left not knowing which one is correct. Did one person answer honestly and the other person answer with the equivalent of grade inflation? Is one person being overly harsh? Now I don't know and the SLOE no longer fulfills its intended purpose.

 

[tbi1924]

Looking for advice on my chances, especially since EM is getting more competitive and Im an IMG.......

Step1- 259
Step2ck- 279
Step2cs- pass
*4 research pubs (2 case reports, 1 presentation, 1 study) in low-mid level journals
*all Honors and As in third year
*several interesting work/volunteer experiences
*1 strong LOR from a good Brooklyn EM program (a second SLOR next month), and a strong IM letter from the Dept Chairman
School- SGU

I realize a lot of places simply will not take IMGs, but Im hoping that some will look past the school I went to and see a good candidate for EM. Chances? Any programs in New England that might look at an IMG?

 

[TerribleStudent]

Derp

 

[link2swim06]

Step 1: 200-210
Step 2 CK: Unknown
1st two years: All P's, some HP's
Metric ****ton of extracurriculars. You name it, I probably did it.
Decent school, no red flags.

Third year:
All P's except one Honors

Fourth year:
EM Home grade: P from a tough EM school, with pretty unremarkable comments. Including something like "has some gaps in knowledge." At least I got the "exceptional work ethic, enthusiastic and personable, great attitude, seeks out learning opportunities, team player, clinical skills are solid and generally formulates reasonable clinical plans, communicates well with patients" bits. I feel like this is my kiss of death.
EM Away next month

The only possible salvage to this **** application is Step 2 and an away at a low-tier institution.
...I don't think I'm gonna match, guys. Is there a "Participation" trophy for med school?

Join the club.

 

[Akail]

Step 1: 200-210
Step 2 CK: Unknown
1st two years: All P's, some HP's
Metric ****ton of extracurriculars. You name it, I probably did it.
Decent school, no red flags.

Third year:
All P's except one Honors

Fourth year:
EM Home grade: P from a tough EM school, with pretty unremarkable comments. Including something like "has some gaps in knowledge." At least I got the "exceptional work ethic, enthusiastic and personable, great attitude, seeks out learning opportunities, team player, clinical skills are solid and generally formulates reasonable clinical plans, communicates well with patients" bits. I feel like this is my kiss of death.
EM Away next month

The only possible salvage to this **** application is Step 2 and an away at a low-tier institution.
...I don't think I'm gonna match, guys. Is there a "Participation" trophy for med school?

I'd be wiling to bet you'll match. Not a lock by any means, but I think you have more than just a fighting chance as long as you're not too particular about location. "Apply broadly"