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[Palmetto914]

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Well for what it's worth, I don't feel you're attitude is 'cocky.' Given your stats I'd say you're just being realistic, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with planning ahead.

I agree. To apply "cocky" to someone's post on a forum doesn't really fit, as a lot of cockiness comes across in the WAY something is said. For example, tell me how this comes across:

"For me, it was just about getting to the interview. I knew if I could get a school to invite me to interview, I'd be in."

To me, that's confidence. If it comes across as cockiness, well, I did get an interiview, and they did accept me.

In any case, if you have the 4.0, and you have the DAT to back it up, good for you. Even if you didn't, you most definitely are smart to be asking these questions now.

Now, just because I don't agree with those so quick to slap the cocky sticker on you, doesn't mean their words of warning should be ignored. No one likes some cocky tool sounding off about his/her greatness (with the exception of Anchorman, of course). At my interview alone, there were 4 or 5 people that wreaked of cockiness, and you could tell everyone was put off by it. I can't imagine how they were able to hide this during the interview, but I'd imagine the interviewers were put off by it, too.

So to answer your question, even the dentists way up here in MI told me flat out, "Go to the cheapest school that accepts you." In MI, we have two dental schools: U of M (state school) and Detroit Mercy (private). The private school has a great clinic (detroit offers one heck of a patient pool), but it costs $20,000 more a year (or more) to attend than U of M. I know plenty of dentists that attended both schools, and while the UDM grads don't regret their choice of d-school, they all told me if it ever came down to UDM or U of M, pick U of M because it's cheaper.

 

[TheLoveMD]

LSU sounds like the right choice

the consensus is overwhelmingly in its favor

 

[DrDientes]

My apologies I wasn't trying to sound mean. Maybe to prepare like armorshell said, you should look into programs that you are interested in accross the US. That way you have some schools that you know you will get into for sure. Then when the interviews come you can post this thread up again and more people can give you opinions. I say LSU as well. You can use some of that money your saving to travel before school starts.

 

[Pwndy]

Are you serious?? Do you have statistics on how many hours of hands on work you get at each school?

I'm not saying LSU isn't a good school by any means...I just don't understand how people can make statements like this as if they are fact.

Do I have statistics? No.
But I do know that at LSU-SD the students start working with actual patients about a year before any other school. By the time you graduate from LSU-SD you have a lot of clinic hours and have experienced many things that you might not have with fewer hours.
I'm not saying anything bad about other schools. I'm just saying that just because a school is cheaper than others doesn't necessarily mean that it does not produce quality dentists.

 

[TheLoveMD]

geaux tigers

 

[subdoc]

But I do know that at LSU-SD the students start working with actual patients about a year before any other school.

Do they start working on pts in their D1-1 year? When they are interviewing dental hopefuls? There are schools who see pts D1. If LSU does as well, they are not unique in this regard.

I am not arguing about clinical competancy of LSU-DS grads, I am sure they are stellar clinicians. I am saying the statement they work on pts a year before any other school is based on conjecture.

 

[Oracle DMD]

Do I have statistics? No.
But I do know that at LSU-SD the students start working with actual patients about a year before any other school. By the time you graduate from LSU-SD you have a lot of clinic hours and have experienced many things that you might not have with fewer hours.
I'm not saying anything bad about other schools. I'm just saying that just because a school is cheaper than others doesn't necessarily mean that it does not produce quality dentists.

do you have statistics?
-no
do you have facts?
-nope
do you have a handle on what "know" means?
-not really, no

i think LSU is great, but be realistic and fair about what you do and don't know.

 

[Oracle DMD]

btw, does anyone remember about those 2 guys who falsified their stats on their application or whatever and got accepted to LSU? that was hilarious! don't act like you weren't impressed! hahaha

 

[New2Philly]

im leaning that way as well but im also considering the value of the experience in a new place...ive been living in Louisiana my entire life, i go to LSU for undergrad, LSU-DS is only about 65 miles away (in new orleans)...id just like to consider maybe going to live out on the coast for a few years and seeing what life has to offer outside this state

my biggest worry is that if i stay here ill never get a chance to see if i want to move out of state. id like to see if id rather practice somewhere else after graduating ya know?

Use the money that you would save at LSU to travel after school. Being in debt for hundreds of thousands of dollars could really affect you in the long run, and depending on if you want to be a general dentist, or go into specialty should also be taken into consideration. Ivy-league schools are not necessarly the best on the clinical side. Also just because a school is in-state, and the cheapest around doesn't mean that it is not necessarily a great school. An example of this is UCLA, which for in-state students is the cheapest school around, and also has a stiller reputation. There is also a bit of a divide between dental schools that are respected by the general public (usually corresponds with how the school's football team does), and those which are respected by dentists. Examples include: UOP vs. USC; and Michigan vs. Detroit Mercy. To cut to the point don't choose a school based on anything except how it will help you in your future practice. Dental school is only four years, but the debt could last up to 10 to 15 years, which could put one in their forties before they are debt free.

 

[TheLoveMD]

Use the money that you would save at LSU to travel after school. Being in debt for hundreds of thousands of dollars could really affect you in the long run, and depending on if you want to be a general dentist, or go into specialty should also be taken into consideration. Ivy-league schools are not necessarly the best on the clinical side. Also just because a school is in-state, and the cheapest around doesn't mean that it is not necessarily a great school. An example of this is UCLA, which for in-state students is the cheapest school around, and also has a stiller reputation. There is also a bit of a divide between dental schools that are respected by the general public (usually corresponds with how the school's football team does), and those which are respected by dentists. Examples include: UOP vs. USC; and Michigan vs. Detroit Mercy. To cut to the point don't choose a school based on anything except how it will help you in your future practice. Dental school is only four years, but the debt could last up to 10 to 15 years, which could put one in their forties before they are debt free.

well if the general republic is wieveing LSUSD like its viewing LSU football right now, i dont want to be anywhere near there...lol

but in all seriousness idk what happened to our fball team...theyve gone down hill

all that aside...il be pulling for an lsu acceptance letter on 12/1/11

 

[New2Philly]

i dont see how its cocky...i have a 4.0 and if my practice DATs match my actual DAT score ill have sumthin like a 23/23/20 with decent ECs and LORs so i think its pretty good

i dont think im above anyone else but i think ive worked my a** off to get where i am

That comes off even more cocky. I know people who have 4.0 an multiple degrees, with more then adequate extracurriculars, and they didn't even get an interview. Did I mention that they are some of the nicest people I meet. Dental schools also takes your personal statements, and secondaries in consideration, and if you can't come of mature, excited for dentistry, and interesting no amount of GPA, or DAT will help (except for Harvard maybe).

 

[TheLoveMD]

That comes off even more cocky. I know people who have 4.0 an multiple degrees, with more then adequate extracurriculars, and they didn't even get an interview. Did I mention that they are some of the nicest people I meet. Dental schools also takes your personal statements, and secondaries in consideration, and if you can't come of mature, excited for dentistry, and interesting no amount of GPA, or DAT will help (except for Harvard maybe).

no interviews?

hmmmmm

 

[armorshell]

That comes off even more cocky. I know people who have 4.0 an multiple degrees, with more then adequate extracurriculars, and they didn't even get an interview. Did I mention that they are some of the nicest people I meet. Dental schools also takes your personal statements, and secondaries in consideration, and if you can't come of mature, excited for dentistry, and interesting no amount of GPA, or DAT will help (except for Harvard maybe).

I don't even know how you qualify that statement. Having a 4.0 and a 23 puts you miles ahead of the great majority of applicants, regardless of who you are. I don't doubt that you know someone with stats like that who didn't get in, but they're likely a very small minority of applicants with similar stats. The way people talk on this forum you'd think someone with a 4.0 would be at a disadvantage.

If you have stats like this, assuming you have a very good chance at getting into relatively competitive schools is not cockiness, it's simply being realistic.

 

[TheLoveMD]

I don't even know how you qualify that statement. Having a 4.0 and a 23 puts you miles ahead of the great majority of applicants, regardless of who you are. I don't doubt that you know someone with stats like that who didn't get in, but they're likely a very small minority of applicants with similar stats. The way people talk on this forum you'd think someone with a 4.0 would be at a disadvantage.

If you have stats like this, assuming you have a very good chance at getting into relatively competitive schools is not cockiness, it's simply being realistic.

i also thought this was the logical thought process, but ive been wrong before so...

 

[alanan84]

I don't even know how you qualify that statement. Having a 4.0 and a 23 puts you miles ahead of the great majority of applicants, regardless of who you are. I don't doubt that you know someone with stats like that who didn't get in, but they're likely a very small minority of applicants with similar stats. The way people talk on this forum you'd think someone with a 4.0 would be at a disadvantage.

If you have stats like this, assuming you have a very good chance at getting into relatively competitive schools is not cockiness, it's simply being realistic.

Keep in mind, the OP does not have a 23 just yet. Saying that you're scoring 23's on practice tests doesn't mean anything.

Personally, I believe that you can't really assess your chances until you've got that DAT score in the books. And even then, it's iffy...

But yeah, a 4.0 combined with a 23 and I'd say the OP is golden!

 

[TheLoveMD]

Personally, I believe that you can't really assess your chances until you've got that DAT score in the books. And even then, it's iffy...

But yeah, a 4.0 combined with a 23 and I'd say the OP is golden!

isnt that a contradiction?

 

[alanan84]

isnt that a contradiction?

No but I'll rephrase.

A 4.0 with a real 23 on the DAT, and I would agree you're golden

 

[doc toothache]

An ounce of humbleness is likely to carry one further than a ton of arrogance irrespective of how "stellar" the stats may be.

 

[TheLoveMD]

An ounce of humbleness is likely to carry one further than a ton of arrogance irrespective of how "stellar" the stats may be.

someone stated earlier that arrogance and confidence can be confused all too often...arrogance depends on the way one comes off when projecting confidence, and generally i think its due to insecurity from LACK of confidence

so that would make arrogance and confidence opposites in many respects

in that regard, i dont regret revealing my confidence in myself...i think that many short falls come because of lack of confidence/ self esteem

like i said earlier, aim for the stars and the sky is the limit

do i think im a more qualified applicant than many of the other pre-dents??...well how would i know...my knowledge of dentistry can be summed up by my infrequent trips to the dental office for cleanings, but what i can tell you is that my hard work has earned me superb statistics on paper and that i believe ill continue to achieve those marks by continually working hard...now thats not to say that there wont be any barriers because i still have many hurdles ahead...but from my past efforts it would be reasonable to assume that i will find my way around these as well

and admissions to professional schools are really only based on statistics arent they? i mean, the reason we all aim for high gpas and test scores is because the dental admissions committees use these scores to INFER our potential success in grad school...so why can we not make inferences about ourselves now based upon the same guidelines?

the rest of our application is based on our personalities/values/etc...i think the most qualified applicant should be highly confident in them self and their abilities; being timid and shy is no way to go about impressing anyone and thats because being a dentists has a lot to do with being a people person

-i feel like maybe i am trying a little too hard to defend myself, but i think many people have a misconstrued idea of what self confidence consists of...a self confident man would draw others in whereas an arrogant man would push others out

or maybe im just rambling because im putting off the weekend grind of studying for my 3 exams next week simultaneously, but it sure as hell beats hours upon hours of electrical circuits and magnetic fields😀

 

[punkin85]

do you have statistics?
-no
do you have facts?
-nope
do you have a handle on what "know" means?
-not really, no

i think LSU is great, but be realistic and fair about what you do and don't know.

👍👍👍

and admissions to professional schools are really only based on statistics arent they?


or maybe im just rambling because im putting off the weekend grind of studying for my 3 exams next week simultaneously, but it sure as hell beats hours upon hours of electrical circuits and magnetic fields😀

1.) ONLY? really? no. sometimes mediocre stats with great outside work and dedication is better than great stats but nothing else to show.

2.) do you want our sympathy? 3 exams? oh sorry isn't that normal for about 100% of college students? sorry, but you really could have left that out.

 

[TheLoveMD]

👍👍👍



1.) ONLY? really? no. sometimes mediocre stats with great outside work and dedication is better than great stats but nothing else to show.

2.) do you want our sympathy? 3 exams? oh sorry isn't that normal for about 100% of college students? sorry, but you really could have left that out.

im not talking about just gpa and dat scores...i mean statistics as a science...better known as inferential statistics...they select the best candidates based on inferences...i dont think u can prove this wrong...

and no i dont need sympathy...r u joking...it was a mood lightener after a serious statement to show a positive attitude

jeezeeeeeee...some people read way too much into things...i.e you

 

[TheLoveMD]

and to further expand my argument...

inferential statistics can be based not only on discrete quantitative data such as test scores and gpas, but also on categorical data and certainly a combination of both...youve got to be an advanced statistician to prove WHY this works, but you dont need a phd to know that this is how it works

thats all an application is...a list of information that a committee can make inferences about...even the interview is structured to make inferences about a person and HOW WELL THEY WILL DO IN DENTAL SCHOOL

come on...this aint rocket science here

hell this is freshman stats and common sense...

 

[TheLoveMD]

jeezeeeeeee...some people read way too much into things...i.e you

also this was meant as a joke because reading too much into things could be considered interpreting/analyzing them to extremes...like a DS adcom

 

[TheLoveMD]

peace and love to all after some of those statements, dont flame me for it lol

 

[doc toothache]

Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to make sure adcoms understand the difference between confidence and arrogance. "Confidence" must explain the perseverance on committing the various acts of unacceptable social behavior over a period starting at age 14 and up to a few months ago.

 

[punkin85]

and to further expand my argument...

inferential statistics can be based not only on discrete quantitative data such as test scores and gpas, but also on categorical data and certainly a combination of both...youve got to be an advanced statistician to prove WHY this works, but you dont need a phd to know that this is how it works

thats all an application is...a list of information that a committee can make inferences about...even the interview is structured to make inferences about a person and HOW WELL THEY WILL DO IN DENTAL SCHOOL

come on...this aint rocket science here

hell this is freshman stats and common sense...

chill out dude.

 

[TheLoveMD]

Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to make sure adcoms understand the difference between confidence and arrogance. "Confidence" must explain the perseverance on committing the various acts of unacceptable social behavior over a period starting at age 14 and up to a few months ago.

not quite true

i suppose your replying to a thread posted in the pre-medical forum?

this has been taken care of😀

and let me tell you, it was not easy

 

[Lethstang]

from what ive gathered , the dental school u attend doesnt matter. the rule of thumb is go for cheap.

However.

Ive graduated from state school and ivy. Even though graduating from say, harvard dental school wont make you any more money, u can now say you graduated from harv. its very satisfying, and you are suddenly the smart guy from harvard and given more respect, more doors opened etc. worth the extra money? thats your personal choice. personally i would go for the prestigious private uni. youll be making so much bank later on, whats another 100k worth of debt (IMO).

 

[yuppers]

Ive graduated from state school and ivy. Even though graduating from say, harvard dental school wont make you any more money, u can now say you graduated from harv. its very satisfying, and you are suddenly the smart guy from harvard and given more respect, more doors opened etc. worth the extra money? thats your personal choice. personally i would go for the prestigious private uni. youll be making so much bank later on,

First you say graduating from Harvard won't make you any more money, but then a few lines down you say to go to a prestigious school and "youll be making so much bank later on". So which is it??

whats another 100k worth of debt.

Roughly half a house.

 

[Lethstang]

First you say graduating from Harvard won't make you any more money, but then a few lines down you say to go to a prestigious school and "youll be making so much bank later on". So which is it??


Roughly half a house.

the bank i quote is the normal bank from being a dentist

and ya thats the decision the op needs to make, is the half a house worth of debt worth the "hey i graduated from here". to most it probably isnt.

to each his own.

 

[armorshell]

youll be making so much bank later on, whats another 100k worth of debt (IMO).

Hey man, can I borrow 100k? No big deal, right?

 

[Lethstang]

not sure why you are both disparaging my opinion. Lets all be adults here.

armor you are a moderator I expect more.

 

[Oracle DMD]

not sure why you are both disparaging my opinion. Lets all be adults here.

armor you are a moderator I expect more.

so you're saying that you'd pay 100k extra to say you went to Harvard? (or you can see why people would?) IMHO, i think it would be way cooler to pocket that extra 100k and say that you TURNED DOWN Harvard. 😎 that's ballin'.

i imagine that people smart/ driven enough to go to harvard are also smart enough to know what that it wouldnt be worth the $$$. that being said, maybe the people that decide to go there do so for other reasons like the research opportunities or something else all together.

 

[Lethstang]

im not sure if i would, 100k is alot of cheddar. id seriously consider it though. I myself am hoping to go the cheapest route possible.

to theloveMD - dont let the haters bring you down. grats on your good stats you are well positioned for an acceptance id say, ceteris paribus.

 

[armorshell]

not sure why you are both disparaging my opinion. Lets all be adults here.

armor you are a moderator I expect more.

Just because it's an opinion doesn't protect it from things like logic, debate, dispute, refutation or rebuttal. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[TheLoveMD]

yea im thinkin of only applying to the cheapest schools...that way i wont have to make a decision about high prestige, only whichever i get in is the cheapest which would hopefully be LSU...i definitely understand talking about it hypothetically because everyone is correct when they say i havent taken the DAT yet and i needa chill...id feel like a jerkoff if i got sumthin like a 17...lol

 

[subdoc]

i definitely understand talking about it hypothetically because everyone is correct when they say i havent taken the DAT yet and i needa chill...id feel like a jerkoff if i got sumthin like a 17...lol

I guess I should feel like a jerkoff for my 17TS on the DAT.

From what you have written and how you have responded to advice/criticism in the past on both the pre-Med forum and here, I am seeing a lot of immaturity. Ultimately, the "inferences" the admissions committees will make about you will be heavily biased toward academic chops, maturity and professionalism. We have all read on this post you seem to do well academically, but what about the other two facets I mentioned? (rhetorical – seriously, rhetorical) I recommend taking relatively extreme measures on the maturity front. Remember, consequences for actions does not equal maturity. As trite as it sounds, with your patterns from the past you really need to ask yourself at the end of the day how you became more mature and how you grew into more of a professional. I am in your corner if you continue to grow and show improvement.

 

[pinetar321]

omg internets fight!

 

[yuppers]

not sure why you are both disparaging my opinion. Lets all be adults here.

I was not trying to disparage your opinion, I was just looking for some clarity.

 

[TheLoveMD]

I guess I should feel like a jerkoff for my 17TS on the DAT.

From what you have written and how you have responded to advice/criticism in the past on both the pre-Med forum and here, I am seeing a lot of immaturity. Ultimately, the "inferences" the admissions committees will make about you will be heavily biased toward academic chops, maturity and professionalism. We have all read on this post you seem to do well academically, but what about the other two facets I mentioned? (rhetorical – seriously, rhetorical) I recommend taking relatively extreme measures on the maturity front. Remember, consequences for actions does not equal maturity. As trite as it sounds, with your patterns from the past you really need to ask yourself at the end of the day how you became more mature and how you grew into more of a professional. I am in your corner if you continue to grow and show improvement.

id feel like a jerkoff if i boasted about a 23 and got a 17*

well put

 

[spud daddy]

Hahahaha this thread has gotten so far off topic!

 

[Onabadday]

Why... would you want to put yourself into hundreds of thousands worth of debt before even touching D-school?

I'm going the cheapest possible way (state schools)-route, but to each his own. I guess.

This is how people end up in the news 10 years out of school with 700k+ in debt.